Focus on the Family

John Fuller: This is John Fuller and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs, on a podcast, app, or website.

Guest (Female): It's not that I don't like being a mom, it's just that I wish someone would appreciate what I do around here.

Guest (Female): Let's just say one word: diapers.

Guest (Female): Honey, a woman's work is never done.

John Fuller: If you're a busy mom, especially with younger children, you can probably relate to those comments. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll explore some of those day-to-day challenges of motherhood, and we'll have lots of encouragement and insights from moms who are going through the same thing.

Jim Daly: Right from the outset, let me say we know moms do work at home, and some moms work outside the home and at home, and more dads are doing more things around the house, too. That's just the way the modern family operates. So, if we say something you're going, "Oh, that's stereotypical," that's not our intention. It's just our experience.

I want to open with that kind of story because I got home from work when our boys were probably about six and four, and Jean literally met me at the door and kind of pushed the boys right into me. I mean, I had one foot in the door and she said, "I am kind of tired of some of the shenanigans that have gone on today. You need to take over."

Jean's an awesome mom, but she kind of ended up at the short end of that rope for that day. I said, "Can I just change? Can I just change my clothes?" And she's like, "Yeah, do what you need to do, but engage these guys because I'm through today." It was so fun. She's a great mom, and that's what we want to talk about today is for the moms that feel like you're at the end of your rope on days, especially with the little ones, because there's so much activity, so much kinetic activity going on, chasing them down, changing diapers, whatever can be done with the other things on your list. It feels overwhelming, but we want to give you hope today that you can do this.

John Fuller: It's a privilege and a wonderful role and a demanding role. We have three moms in the studios with us. We're excited to have Kristin Rouche, Ashley Durand, and Dr. Jenny Coffey. Kristin and Ashley have two young children, and they've co-authored a book, and it's published by Focus on the Family. It's called *Mothering on Empty*. Jenny's the mom of four. She's a marriage and family therapist and she works on our counseling team here. She's been in the booth and also in the studio with us before.

Jim Daly: Let me say welcome to all of you. It's great to have you two for the first time and Jenny, good to have you back. Was that a fair description of the crazy? What does it sound like to you to be the mother of young children? Give me the noise.

Jenny Coffey: It's interesting now because some of mine are getting older, which is weird. My oldest is 14 and then my youngest is nine. It's more of like—I remember when people told me when they were younger, the young years are the physically exhausting years and the older years are the emotionally exhausting years. That has proven to be so true because, especially with my job, I come home and my sensory is out. My hearing is like, "Oh my word, I've been listening all day."

Jim Daly: So you can relate to Jean in that little story.

Jenny Coffey: And then they want to tell me stuff, of course, and I'm like, "Yes, okay. I've got to find it. I've got to find it."

Jim Daly: Moms are wonderful. Moms are always there. So what's your animal noise for the busy time of this season? What's it sound like, Ashley?

Ashley Durand: I was laughing because that's a very relatable story. I feel like as a mom with young children, there are days when I wake up and I have the best plans for the day of all the activities that the kids are going to do and love, and the chores that are going to happen, and the homemade meal that is going to be the best and everyone's going to love it.

Then as the day unfolds, somebody colors markers on the hard floors, the neighbors pop by, the toilet overflows, I didn't get a chance to brush my teeth, and it's 3:00 p.m. Tragedy! One day a skunk showed up in our yard when we were outside, and it didn't spray us, but it sprayed the yard and the whole house and the car. Everything smelled for weeks. Anyway, there was one day like that where I was completely overwhelmed by how the day had unfolded, and I had managed to make dinner and it was on the table and everyone was just picking at their food. Nobody was eating it and I just burst into tears. I said, "Don't you know how hard it was for me to get this meal on the table? I worked—I put my heart into it and you guys don't even care!"

Jim Daly: We're hitting all the high notes here. All the moms are going, "Yeah, check, check." And then she just starts spoon-feeding everybody. All right, Kristin, I need yours. I'm not going to let you escape here.

Kristin Rouche: Oh man, I am not good at sound effects. What am I going to do?

Jim Daly: Oh, that's good. You could be the calm mom. "Honey, everything will be fine." Are you kind of in that category?

Kristin Rouche: I would like to be that mom. Let me ask you though, I mean, you kind of opened this can because it is expectations. You have it all laid out, especially if you're a list maker and organized in your thinking, and this is how 9:00's going to roll and 10:00 and noon's going to be just like this. It doesn't work that way, does it?

Kristin Rouche: No, and I didn't realize how controlling I was until I had kids and they totally threw the rulebook out the window. I was like, "Oh, okay. This is how it's going to be. All right. I'm going to have to learn how to be flexible and roll with it and be okay with it."

Jim Daly: Let me start in that spot because I think when you look at what is God teaching us as we are the adults in the room, so often it reflects what we're trying to teach our kids. But that idea of control—control is an illusion. Don't you think?

Kristin Rouche: Yes, absolutely. Motherhood has been such a journey of learning to surrender, not only my kids to the Lord and entrust them to the Lord, but also surrender myself to the Lord and say, "Wow, I'm so inadequate for this job."

Jim Daly: Well, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family. I think we just nailed it right there. Jenny, as a counselor, I do want to have you pitch into that a little bit because that is true. I mean, when your kids are young and that's the theme of our discussion today, control is natural. We want to control their environment.

I mean, oh my goodness, did you guys buy all the stuff? The protector around the fireplace, all the electrical, the cabinet—you can't open the cabinet door without pushing it down. We had a weekend where Jean said, "Okay, they're getting into stuff. It's time." And that's the safety-ization of your home. So, but that's good control because you want to keep your young children safe. But if you maintain that into later years, even I mean later like seven, eight, nine, it starts to become a problem.

Jenny Coffey: Right. And I would say to your point of control's an illusion, I would say ultimate control's an illusion. I think it's okay to control in the sense of have some autonomy over self, right? To say, "Oh, if there's only a few things I can get done today, these are the things I'm going to try to get done," like the meal. Okay, the meal happened. There's a sense of control because she could have picked a couple of other things.

Yes, as they get older, I mean, even one of the things that we know is from about zero to eight or nine, depending on maturity, children are completely others-motivated. They need that reminder. Around eight or nine, depending on maturity, to about 16, we hope that they are a mix of self and others motivated. That's the normal growth pattern. Maybe you forgot your lunch and I let you forget it today. Those types of things. And then hopefully by 16, they're completely self-motivated. And so to your point of the control, if we're still doing some of that stuff at 10, 11, 12, we're actually keeping them back when they're older.

Jim Daly: Ashley, you get all the good questions here because I'm thinking of the time Jean and I, before we had kids, were at Sam's Club or something, and we see this kid melt down. Mom's struggling to get control, and of course, those without children go, "You know, when we have kids, that will never happen."

Until I got a phone call from Jean getting out of a Walmart line and she said, "Oh, Trent went crazy over a candy bar. I kept saying no and he had this meltdown." This army guy in his uniform came over and said, "Son, you need to listen to your mother," and it freaked Trent out. He was probably like three, but he already made the connection this dude in a uniform has authority. I don't know who that was, but thank you because I was traveling. I wasn't there to help. But this guy got Trent's attention. What was your meltdown experience? And was it you or your children?

Ashley Durand: Well, one leads to the other. Isn't that true? Before I had kids, I also was very much like, I had this idea that I was never going to be disciplining my kids in anger, I wasn't going to be a yelling mom, I was just always going to be so graceful and patient. And then I had a child that was exactly like me and that triggered me in ways I didn't know were possible.

One day we were at the library. My son was about three at the time, and I'd given him a five-minute warning: "We're going to be leaving in five minutes, so finish up your coloring." Well, the five minutes went by and he was not ready to leave. He threw a huge meltdown, threw himself on the floor, screaming. Everyone—the library is quiet. Everyone was staring at me. I had a new baby at the time, I was holding a bag of books, so I'm holding the baby, the books, and I'm trying to pick up this toddler off the floor. He screamed, "Don't touch me!" My inner pressure is building and I start sweating a little bit. Everyone's watching me. I felt like they all were thinking, "What a terrible mom, she can't control her kids."

Finally, it was like an Olympic sport. I got the baby, the toddler, the bag of books out to the car and he's screaming the whole entire way. And when we get to the car, suddenly Mount Vesuvius erupts and I just started screaming back at him. I instantly felt this shame of, "This is not the kind of mom I wanted to be." As I reflected on it later—why was I so angry?—it wasn't because he wasn't wanting to leave the library. It was because I was putting too much of my identity in what the random library patrons thought of me and feeling like a failure, rather than what did my son actually need? In response, I threw an adult-sized tantrum and that wasn't going to bring about the gospel change in him or in me, just going to make me feel more like a failure.

Jim Daly: And you're touching on something that's important for all of us as parents, whether you're a mom or a dad—this idea that we derive our sense of worth out of how our children behave, especially as Christians. I think we in the Christian community put a lot of value on that and we love to hear, "Your children are so well-behaved, what have you done?" "Well, I pray four hours a day and God honors that and has given me wonderful children."

Jenny, talk about that idea of—and you might have some very compliant children and that's a great thing. God bless you. Most of us didn't get all of them. So the reality is children push those buttons for reasons. Clinically again, the idea that we're trying to see too much of us in our children's behavior.

Jenny Coffey: I think that that's probably one of the hardest parts of parenting is to what Ashley was saying—you see something in them that is a reflection of something that you don't love about yourself and you were hoping that they wouldn't have to do it.

Jim Daly: So how do you let the air out of that? How do you—somebody that has three and four-year-olds and she's struggling in that spot right now because she just had the meltdown in the library, thank you very much. What is the prep for her to say, "Okay, next time you're in that situation, here's some things to think about"?

Jenny Coffey: Well, one of the things that I think to remember, too, I like to remind people that more often than not, if you have a child that's pretty compliant at school—I mean the public thing is hard, especially when they're toddlers—but at school, in church, at other places, and they tend to melt down at home, what that actually means is that they feel super safe at home and they feel emotionally safe to be able to do that because nobody can keep it all together all the time.

So actually, a lot of moms or dads will get into this place where they're like, "They're so nice for Mrs. So-and-so, why are they terrible to us?" I'm like, "That's actually showing that they feel like you're emotionally safe enough to completely lose it." And then it is our job to help them self-regulate. But in those moments, what I try to remember, especially it's hard to not reactively parent. I mean, that's typically what happens in those moments. More often than not, I have tried to remember, like you said, "So-and-so library patron doesn't necessarily matter." And you kind of sit in that place and you say, "I have to care in this moment more about what my kid needs than what this 60-year-old woman thinks or this 50-year-old man." I have to care more about what my kid needs in the moment because they do at that age absolutely need you to help them co-regulate. They cannot do it on their own.

Jim Daly: And it's always good to try to be the adult. I mean, just be telling yourself that whole time because it's so easy to tip into the emotionalism of going toe-to-toe. "I'm a lot bigger than you, I can take you." I mean, you're going, "What am I thinking?" Kristin, I'm not going to let you out of this. You're just the perfect mom. There's a story in the book where you had something unusual, an ungrateful child. I say that tongue-in-cheek. But what was your situation that expressed itself to you?

Kristin Rouche: So talk about a mirror moment. My son had outgrown his previous scooter and I was able to find another scooter that was, in my opinion, excellent. "I am such a great mom. Look what I got for him. He's going to love this. He's going to be over the moon. I cannot wait to give him this scooter."

I show him this scooter and he yells at me, "It's not as fast as my other scooter! What did you do with my other scooter?" "Are you kidding me right now? We spent money on this new scooter. Your other one was falling apart and you want your old scooter and you're not grateful at all that I went out of my way to find you this new scooter and I was so excited and this was going to be a beautiful family moment. Like, what?"

Jim Daly: Did you try, "This one's much faster"? Just I don't know that he could clock it. Does he have a radar gun or what?

Kristin Rouche: I should have told him, "I'm going to time you and I'm going to prove to you that this one's faster." But in the moment, my jaw just dropped. I had no response. "What do I even say to this?" And then in my spirit I could hear the Lord telling me, "You also do this, by the way."

It was just one of those convicting moments where I realized, "No, it's so true. There are so many things that the Lord gives to me that are different than what I expected. It's better, because the things that God gives us are ultimately better for us. But I'm hanging on to something that's not as good in my own faulty human way." It takes a bit to put the mirror on you, but it is so healthy because you then could see the analogies. I'm sure our Heavenly Father is like, "What'd you do? Why'd you do it?" And he is so patient with us. And that's where I wish we could be like he is, and it'll be a lifelong process to try to become like that. But he uses moments like that to plug in those little, "Oh and by the way, it is you."

John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and today we've got Kristin Rouche, Ashley Durand, and Dr. Jenny Coffey with us, a mom panel talking about all the joys and challenges and moments. We want to encourage you to get a copy of the book that Ashley and Kristin have written. It's published by Focus on the Family and called *Mothering on Empty*. Look for that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Jenny, I want to direct this to you. Your husband Blakeley is a firefighter. That's awesome. Tell him thank you. I hope he never has to come to my house. But one of the reasons I say all that is one of the difficulties is schedule. So his schedule—my brother-in-law, Jean's brother, was a firefighter—and you're on for certain hours then you're off and then you have a week of a different set of hours. It's very erratic in that profession. How did you learn to manage that solo parenting concept, the idea that I feel like I'm all alone?

Jenny Coffey: I think I have it a little bit easier because this is all I've ever known. We've been married 18 years this year and he's been a firefighter since he was 19. So I have empathy for the people where it switches because that's rough. But it was kind of thrown into it, so it's like, this is just the way it is.

And so a big part of it, I do think a lot of young Gen X, Millennial, Gen Z dads are more involved in the day-to-day than maybe the older generations were, and so having him help is a normal thing. But when he is gone, I think one of the hardest things for me is to the point of what both of them are saying—is the pivoting when you have, "Okay, I'm going to work today and now all of mine are in school, so it's a little bit easier to kind of plan." "All right, I'm going to do these things today and then I'm going to pick them up." And then a kid gets sick or there's some wrench thrown in. Like yesterday he didn't get let out at 8:00 like he was supposed to. He had an hour where he had to wait for his release and so it's like, "All right, now he—if I was planning on him to be able to help, he can't help now."

Jim Daly: Let me ask you specifically because that's where a lot of tension can crop up in the marriage. Forget the parenting for a minute. So again, disappointment on expectations. And when it's thoughtless, I get that. There may be a need to obviously voice those concerns where he didn't get home on time because he stopped to linger and talk to friends or something like that. But when it's that kind of thing where it's work-related, "I couldn't get out of the office," or whatever it might be, what's a better mechanism for a stressed-out mom of young kids who thought this is when I could go take a bath—I mean just as a thought, that would be a dream, wouldn't it?—or just getting that break so that Blakeley would take the kids so I can get some things done around the house that I need to get done. What's an adult kind of attitude rather than to pounce on him?

Jenny Coffey: Well, that is the instinct. I mean, have you ever done that? I tell people that in couples therapy all the time. I'm like, your brain, when it goes into fight or flight or when you're stressed like that, it's scanning for threat. And so what's right in front of you is the biggest threat in the moment. And so that's what it's going to see is your spouse or your child.

How do you de-escalate that? I think the biggest part of it is it's so simple. I was telling a client this yesterday. I was like, it's so simple and yet so practically difficult to actually do. But the biggest part of it is the pause. And so what I tell people is to remind them because I hear often people talk about the somatic or the physical. They're like, "But I was so triggered." I'm like, "Right. Once you are, you have to just let your body go." Like once the body's been flushed with chemicals, you have to just let it process the chemicals out because that is a natural thing the Lord put in us. But what you can do is create space between the physical reaction and the mental spiraling, rumination, or reactivity. And so I say, let the physical body do what it needs to do and at the same time, pause, step back, and take a brain break and say, "Let me just pause for a second before I pounce on any of this, knowing that I might still be anxious."

Jim Daly: And that's a great first step, just slow down, take a deep breath. It's the only thing to do. I actually have started doing that. It works. Are you proud of me? I am. It took many decades. But I'm better at it now. I feel better. I'm more patient in the home, that kind of thing. Kristin, again, I'm not letting you out of this thing.

Kristin Rouche: I don't want to be out of it.

Jim Daly: You have a verse in Acts 26: "Kicking against the goads." Now, I just want to say a lot of people may not know what a goad is. Tell us what a goad is and what's the scripture getting at when we're kicking against the goads.

Kristin Rouche: Yes, I also had to look it up because I didn't know what a goad was. So picture oxen and you are trying to guide this ox down a certain path. It's a poky stick.

Jim Daly: I was close.

Kristin Rouche: Something that sticks you, a sticker. Okay, so you're thinking poky stick. If the ox starts to veer out of the path, you poke it with the goad and they're supposed to go back onto the path. Some animals do not like being poked with the poky stick and so they will kick at the poky stick, kicking at the goads, which is actually more painful because they are putting force against the poky stick, thus hurting themselves, rather than just going back where they are supposed to be going, the best path for them.

And so I had this experience where I was honestly angry with God and I was having kind of a pouting session and I was like, "God, I don't like this. This is so uncomfortable. Why are you letting me go through this really challenging season? I don't feel like I deserve this. Are you really good?" Those kinds of questions that come to your mind during prolonged seasons of struggle and challenges. And he just brought this verse to mind. He's like, "Why are you kicking against the goads?" And so I had to look it up. "What are you talking about, Lord?" So I looked it up and I was like, "Oh, I'm making this harder on myself because of the way I'm reacting to the situation. I'm making it more painful for myself."

God is ultimately doing good for me, he's ultimately doing good for our family, but I'm seeing it through the lens of, "This is hard, this is uncomfortable, I don't like this, I don't want to go in this direction." So I am fighting it, I'm pouting about it, I'm having a bad attitude. God is saying, "If you'll just shift your attitude, this will be so much more pleasant for you, so much more pleasant for your family." And it was just kind of an aha moment for me.

Jim Daly: Boy, much of life seems to point in that direction. If you just adjust your attitude, daughter, son. The Lord, he must have that speech with different people thousands of times a day in different circumstances because this is just the human condition, the sinfulness of humanity.

Ashley, I want to read a quote from the book because I thought this was good. *Mothering on Empty*. In the book, you wrote: "I realized that if my identity was based solely on my role as a mother, then I would come up short every time. My kids would never be perfect and neither would I." That's a good billboard. Guess what everybody, you're never going to be perfect and your kids will never be perfect either. They might be great kids, but if they're perfect, they'd be Jesus. So how did that minister to your heart? How do you embrace that and believe it?

Ashley Durand: Well, that's the challenge that I've wrestled through. I feel like when you put your identity in people, no matter how good they are and no matter how well-behaved they are or how kind they are to you, at some point they will let you down. And at some point you'll be feeling like you're at rock bottom because you aren't feeling loved, basically. And so when I realized that and realized that I needed to have my identity in Christ first, that really changed everything. And nothing has helped me form my identity more than spending time reading the Bible. As simple as that sounds—and if you're a Christian, you've heard that so many times—but it really is true. That as a mom, you feel like you don't have time because you're so tired and you're always caring for other people. So you feel like you should put it off until later, but the more that you don't feed your soul, the more empty that you are.

Jim Daly: Well, that certainly is true and that's why we've been encouraging moms today. Your role is so important. Here at Focus on the Family, we want to equip you to be the best parent you can be. I'm so thankful for our panel of moms, Ashley, Kristin, and Jenny. And I'm looking forward to more of their insights next time. This is such good stuff.

John Fuller: And John, I think you're going to agree there's a lot here for us dads as well.

Jim Daly: I was taking notes, so absolutely. And if you're a mom or you know a mom who needs this kind of help, please share this program with them. You can get the download or look for the YouTube version or certainly get our app and you can access this great content anytime you want. We're also going to recommend Kristin and Ashley's book, *Mothering on Empty: How Moms Like You Found God's Joy*. Make a gift of any amount to the ministry today and we'll say thank you for your support by sending the book.

John Fuller: And your financial gifts help families in tremendous ways. A grandmother named Kay contacted us recently with this message. She said, "Our family has received so much encouragement while raising our own kids, and now our grandchildren are being influenced in a positive way because of your ministry." Well, that's the kind of impact we can have together, working to strengthen and support families. Please donate today so we can continue to be a source of godly encouragement to families around the world. We'd love to hear from you. Just call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or donate and get a copy of *Mothering on Empty* at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And we'll also post information about our *Age and Stage* program. You sign up for this free service, you tell us the ages of your children, and each week we'll send helpful advice and relevant insights about parenting your child in that particular stage of development. Everything you get is going to be biblical, practical, and personal. And you can learn more about *Age and Stage* at our website. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller and inviting you back for more encouragement for moms next time, as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Guest (Female): I feel like I blinked and now my newborn can walk and talk. Kids change so fast, don't they? It can be hard to keep up with each new phase. That's why I love Focus on the Family's *Age and Stage* newsletter. Each week I get an email with resources curated by experts. They're full of biblically and clinically-based tips tailored to your child, no matter what age they are. You can sign up today at mykidsage.com. That's mykidsage.com.