Focus on the Family

John Fuller: This is John Fuller, and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast, app, or website. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll explore the relationship between parents and their adult children.

Actress (Daughter): Dad, we need to talk.

Actor (Father): Sure, honey. What's up? Want to use the car? Need a few bucks?

Actress (Daughter): No, listen, Dad. I really think the time has come for me to move out of the house.

Actor (Father): Honey, why? This is so sudden.

Actress (Daughter): Dad, I'm 35 years old.

Actor (Father): What, all 35-year-old girls need to move out of their parents' houses? I thought you liked it here. I'd miss my little girl.

Actress (Daughter): I'm not your little girl anymore, Dad. I've been married for seven years.

Actor (Father): I know, and we love Bob.

Actress (Daughter): Bill.

Actor (Father): Bill. Your mother and I think the world of Bill. Don't we think the world of Bill, honey?

Actress (Mother): Bill who?

Actress (Daughter): Listen, Dad, I'm getting older. It's time that I led my own life, to give my family an identity of its own.

Actor (Father): Why?

Jim Daly: As our children get older, obviously some things need to change, and today we're going to learn how change can be a good thing. Thanks for joining us. Your host is Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller.

I hope that skit is facetious because that parent needs to call Focus on the Family right now. We are going to cover this issue of adult children and how we perhaps change the parenting modality at that point to be influencers rather than control freaks.

The best way to intro this program, John, is to give the title: *Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children*. That says it all. If you're in this spot, you're going to need to order this book and listen to the broadcast today.

John Fuller: Dr. Kathy Koch is back with us. She's always a popular guest. Dr. Kathy is a speaker, author, researcher, and the founder of Celebrate Kids, which is a ministry dedicated to equipping parents and caregivers and others to help children be more seen and heard. Today, we're going to hear about Dr. Kathy's book. As Jim said, I hope you'll get a copy of it from us here at the ministry.

Jim Daly: Kathy, welcome back.

Kathy Koch: Thank you so much. Honored to be here.

Jim Daly: You are such a research geek. You love the research on family, don't you?

Kathy Koch: I love observing families. I don't necessarily like library research; I let somebody else do that for me. But I love the research of observation and what's happening in culture that's affecting our families.

Jim Daly: I love talking to people that like that kind of observational research because you see patterns, which to me indicates God—that life is set up in patterns that God is showing us. He gives us seasons, the way the solar system works. There are these patterns that God has set up in nature.

As Paul writes about, you have no excuse because you can see God in nature. In that regard, we can see God in how families operate—what is good and what is not so good. In that issue, when you do this observation with these families, especially now that the kids become adults, what are some of those major breakdowns from the parenting side that occur?

Kathy Koch: The fact that parents are still trying to parent when they need to move into a consulting role—maybe being a guide, a coach, a mentor, an influence. We can't parent adult kids. We still may want to, and we may legitimately feel like we haven't finished our job yet because we begin to see some things that are lacking in our adult children when they begin to launch out. Then how do we deal with that? Do our kids want us to be involved at all? Do they maybe still want us to parent because they feel insecure? I think that's part of the confusion.

I think relationships between adult children and younger siblings can also be a really complex issue because the younger siblings are still being parented or still living at home, but the older ones have moved out and launched, yet we still want them to be connected. I think overwhelmed parents—every parent of adult kids is overwhelmed, not just by the adult kids but by culture, by confusion, by things that are going on at church, things that are going on in their workplace. It's messy, but we don't give up because we have God.

We know in the knowing of our knowing that we're still a family and that God ordained the family, and He doesn't want that to ever break up.

Jim Daly: There's such power there when it's healthy. Unfortunately, many of us will experience the destructive power of that too—family-of-origin leftovers. A lot of Christian therapists will talk about that, things that give us a little limp in our adult lives because of what happened when we were children. You learn a lot; you don't fall far from the tree typically. God can intervene and interdict, and if your father was an alcoholic, you don't have to become an alcoholic. I love those components; that's part of my story. There's power through that relationship in Jesus, and that's key to everybody's healthiness spiritually.

Let's get into it. You warn parents about making kids into idols, especially Christians. We love our kids. I am always pulling out my phone: "Look at my boys!" But how do we need to be careful? What does it mean for a parent to make your child an idol?

Kathy Koch: To depend upon them to be your everything, to meet your emotional needs, to meet your need for "Look, I'm amazing." We display our children on the pedestal rather than whatever they would have used back in Bible times when they would have used some structure. We are created to worship; we will worship someone or something. It should be God. Is God the center of our universe? Is it God we're trying to glorify?

We don't have to impress God, but we should glorify God. My prayer would be that God would be pleased with what happens here between the three of us and the production team and that there would be evidence that we did good work here so that God looks good and Jesus is known and celebrated. That has to be the mindset.

We have parents idolizing children and grandparents idolizing grandchildren, meaning they want the children to perform for them to make them look good. That's not appropriate. Children are not performers. God didn't give us kids so that we would look good. If you're afraid that you're going to look like a less-than-great parent because your children are doing something wrong, that might be a sign that you're idolizing them.

Jim Daly: The thing I've observed in myself, let alone other parents I know, is that it is so below the radar sometimes that you're even doing this. You're not aware that you're making an idol out of your children or that you're deriving something positive from their good behavior.

I can remember that. I talk to my boys. There were a couple of good friends that I had saying, "Make sure your boys realize they don't have to perform because you're the President of Focus." I had that conversation with them; I'm not expecting you to be perfect young men. I think they took it to heart. They're great young men, but that's important for Christian parents and pastors. How do you have that healthy conversation age-appropriately with your eight-year-old versus your fifteen-year-old?

Kathy Koch: I love that you were aware of that. I tell adult children all the time: your parents did the best they knew how to do with the wisdom they had in the moment. Stop judging them. The parent needs to be alert. Am I expecting something from my children that's making them uncomfortable to be around me? Maybe they don't want to tell me how they're doing because they're afraid that I'll be either very disappointed and harsh or expecting them to keep up the good work because the parent thinks, "See, if you don't think you're anybody who can do anything except that you're a parent, the pressure your children are feeling is immense." This is one reason they distance themselves from us. Very few parents do this intentionally. We're here to raise their awareness so that they don't live in denial.

Jim Daly: In that regard, you created something called a "Declaration of Release." Describe it and how do we apply it?

Kathy Koch: It is for us to realize that God loves our adult children more than we ever could or would and for us to understand that we can't control. Now that they're adults living outside of the home, or even if they're living in the home, they are adults. Our parenting years are finished. Now we consult, guide, coach, mentor. The declaration of release is designed to give the parent this opportunity to say, "My son is God's."

I hope that the son has always been God's, but this is different. I'm going to release my kids, my sons and daughters, to the love of God. I'm not going to control you; I'm going to pray that God meets your needs for security and that you don't look to me to meet them. I think that's huge. Then we parent strong, but we parent differently. We love a bit differently and we release them to God. Say it every day—that you're now released to the love that God has, and I'm going to take my hands off of you.

Jim Daly: For people who are not watching on YouTube, the look on your face—this is not easy. That's the point because we over-engage. Someone asked me this question, which I thought was really good: "If the Lord's plan for your child was to take them through a valley at twenty-five so that He could get their attention, would you be willing, as the parent, to allow God that maneuverability to get to their soul?"

We're going to say absolutely, but when it comes to doing it, it's absolutely not. We're going to save, we're going to intervene, we're going to do the things that keep them from pain. The irony is we may be keeping them from a depth of their relationship with Christ.

Kathy Koch: Absolutely, and that's a reason that I would be honored if parents of teenagers would buy this book. We can begin to see the pattern that needs to be established now so that when they launch, whether that be college, trade, military, early marriage, entrepreneurship, or a gap year, they're able to do that well. We know the scripture. We know what it says in Romans 5. I've talked with you about the resiliency factor, and it comes from going through valleys well.

Romans 5, James 1, Romans 8:29—the verse after Romans 8:28—all those verses say that the struggle is worth it. That's where we get our biblical character and our deeper faith in the God of the Bible because we experience Him in the valley. If parents have over-protected their children and they've expected their children to look good so that they feel good about the job they've played as parent, the kids are possibly fragile. They have loved that parents have protected them up until this point—"Grab your lunch!" Every kid loves that they're reminded to grab their lunch because they don't want to go hungry.

But now that they're 21, 23, or 35, they do want to grow up and they do want some independence. They want to discover how the world works, and they're going to discover that when we allow them to walk through valleys. We pray in the distance, perhaps. We ask, "How can I help you?" But we watch, and then we praise God for the opportunity that those kids had to grow up. Hopefully, it wasn't trauma and tragedy, but it was growth.

Jim Daly: I love that idea of declaration of release, and if you haven't done that, that's one good reason to get the book. Let me ask you this: you caution parents to listen more and talk less. Then you talk about making "I statements" versus "you statements." Describe what that looks and sounds like.

Kathy Koch: The I statement is: "I worry when you don't reach out to me often enough." Or, "I wonder who you're hanging out with. I love you, and we're not as connected because you don't live here, so I'm just curious about who you're hanging out with." That's an I statement—"I'm curious"—versus "You never tell me who you're hanging out with." That's very judgmental and sounds invasive to adult kids. It's like, "Why don't you trust me? Why do you need to know who I'm hanging out with?"

Jim Daly: What's the outcome of that style of parenting? What will that adult child do?

Kathy Koch: The "you" statement will cause them to remain distant. The very thing you're wanting as the parent, you're not going to get because of how you're interacting. This book was hard to write because nobody wants to hear that. You can't go back ten years and change the way you parented.

You did the best you knew how to do when you did it, and now we're going to give you some advice about changing course if you are willing to do that. "I worry," "I wonder," or "I'm concerned because you told me that you had a job interview, but you haven't told me how it turned out." That's healthier, and I think that engages conversation.

Jim Daly: "On-demand parenting"—I think of streaming. What is on-demand parenting, and why do we need to be aware of it?

Kathy Koch: Back in the old days, we just had the phone on the wall. Now, we can follow our kids on apps if they allow us to. There's FaceTime, texting, calling, Facebook, Instagram. There are so many places where we can go to our kids. If our kid just texted us, we're tempted to call. If they text you, which means they are on their phone, that doesn't give you the right to call and take advantage of the fact that they're on their phone. That feels invasive.

Jim Daly: I'm in that moment; that's where I've got to do a little better job. I'll call Trent, and then he'll text me: "What's up?" instead of calling me back. I've got to relent and say, "Okay, I'm going to text him back: Nothing much, just wanted to hear your voice."

Kathy Koch: Be satisfied with what you have even though you want more. I understand you want the phone call, you want the real visit, you want the time with the kid, and you have a right to want that. They're your kid. Let them launch appropriately. Be satisfied and be grateful for the text. If you manipulate—"You just texted, you can't call?"—they're not going to call you. It's easy to do, but it's not healthy.

John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and today our guest is Dr. Kathy Koch. We're covering some of the content in her book, *Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children*. We have copies of that here. We also have a free downloadable document of that "Declaration of Release" for you to work through as the parent and then to share with your child. We've got a link for it at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Dr. Kathy, you have great suggestions and recommendations for parents and adult children in how to help their relationship. Home visits is one of the things you cover in the book. That's really funny because I'm talking experientially. John, you've got six kiddos. Even going by the apartment to just say hi—I've only done that one time, and it was when Trent said, "Why don't you stop on by?" But you've got to respect their territory.

Kathy Koch: If you want a healthier relationship with your adult children, if you want to have communication that's give-and-take, if you want them to freely share with you their joys and their despair so that you can still be involved with them, then we respect by asking permission. We say things like, "I'm going to be over on your side of town. Will you be home tonight? I'd love to just stop by and say hi."

Jim Daly: It's like how you would treat a friend of yours. You would call and say, "Are you going to be around Tuesday? I'm in your area." My son has delighted in this newer friendship relationship.

Kathy Koch: One of the things that was really hard in writing the book was finding out that parents who think they did everything right so that they could be a friend with their kids later are now not friends with their kids, and it's been devastating to them. It's never too late to not live in denial and recognize that we maybe were doing some things that weren't great—to ask for forgiveness, to apologize, and for us to say to our kids, "Could I stop by for 15 minutes?"

I think what's interesting about that limit—"I'd love to stop by, I made your favorite cinnamon coffee cake. Could I stop by for 15 minutes? I'll just stay." That gives the kid the freedom to say yes because 15 minutes isn't a three-hour visit when you don't know if your son or daughter had work to do at home that night or a really important FaceTime call with somebody else. They just wanted to go to bed early or they had a movie to watch.

You set the mental timer, or I have friends who actually set the timer on their phone for 15 minutes. They walk in, and it buzzes, and they say, "15 minutes," and they leave. Now, if the kid says, "Stay a little bit longer," that's fabulous. But I think the limit is really a blessing. It shows respect.

John Fuller: You said something earlier about parents who don't have a relationship with their adult kids. I know several families going through that where the child is the one that says, "No, I don't want the relationship." Offer some encouragement to that parent because that's a really hard place to be.

Kathy Koch: It is happening far too often. First of all, most parents parented really well with the information they had at the time. I don't want every parent to think that they've done something wrong that has caused their adult child to distance themselves from them. There can be influences on the adult kids; there can be any number of things that have happened. Don't look back and think, "If only I would have prayed more," or "What if we would have changed churches earlier?" We can do that all day long, and it's not necessarily going to help us find peace and hope in that situation.

Go forward more than look back. If you realize that there is something you've done wrong, own it. Take responsibility for your stuff. Again, I say you did the best you knew how to do in the moment, and yet if you're recognizing you were distant, you traveled and you didn't work to relate to the kid when you got back from the business trip, own it. Apologize for that. If sin was involved, ask to be forgiven.

One of the things I'll comment on that might be hard for people to hear is that the research is clear: the more that we "helicoptered" our children, the more likely it is that they're going to distance themselves from us now. If you over-parented, if you did demand, if you were in control, if you asked every little nit-picky question, if you made them study next to you because you didn't trust them in the bedroom—all these things were done with love in your heart, but now the kids are afraid you don't know how to be a different mom.

If the only mom they knew was the helicopter mom that hovers over the breakfast bar while they're doing their homework, and now they do want to be independent, they don't think you can parent any differently. But you can if you choose to back off, give them the space and the place where they discover why they are who they are, and actually find out that you did a good job as a mom.

Jim Daly: So much of what you're talking about in the book for us as the parent of the adult child is seeing your blind spots, but it's hard to see your blind spots. That's why they're called blind spots. You used a term in the book for the parent, which is "the story you tell yourself." Speak to that idea.

Kathy Koch: Let's say that you reach out to your adult daughter and you want her to visit, and she has said no three times in a row. Maybe she even gave you a reason: "Katie has a soccer tournament," or "I've got an assignment due for my supervisor and I need to work on it tonight." There were reasons, but the story you tell yourself is: "She doesn't love me. If she loved me, she'd come over. If she loved me, she'd allow me to visit." Or the story you tell yourself is: "She has time for everything else, but she never makes time for me." Those protect us, but they're lies because we've chosen to not believe our adult kids.

What's awkward is maybe the adult kid doesn't value you. So the story you tell yourself is: "I have no value in my daughter's eyes." That's the story you tell yourself every time she says no. Sadly, that might be true. So then you ask her: "The story I'm telling myself is that you have no interest in my life at all. Is that right?" "Well, no, that's not right." "Well, then why do you say no all the time?" "I told you that Katie has a soccer game and I had an assignment due for work." "So those are true statements? What day in the upcoming week would we be available together to have coffee?" "Well, I don't have time." Now that just told me that you don't value me.

Jim Daly: Even that statement feels strong coming from the parent. I get laying out the groundwork, but I would say it with a little more happiness: "Hey, do you want to grab coffee next week?"

Kathy Koch: I'm going to accept that you've been busy the past week, so thanks for being honest with me. What about the upcoming week? Can you glance at your calendar real quick? I am free Tuesday and Wednesday.

Jim Daly: You know what this is reminding me of? Dr. Dobson talked about this on the old *Focus on the Family* program: Harry Chapin's song, "Cat's in the Cradle." It's right there. The essence of the song is Dad, as his child is growing up, he just never has time to play catch or do anything. Then the boy keeps saying, "When I grow up, I'm going to be just like him."

Then that happens. He goes off to college, he comes home, he doesn't have time to meet with you, Dad. "Can I have the car keys? See you later." It's a whole reflection on the fact that your son grew up to be just like you, meaning no time for you. But now in a different context, you're the old guy, Dad, and your adult son has no time for you because that's what you did to him.

Kathy Koch: That's hard, isn't it? So we accept what's happened and we move forward full of grace for ourselves and our kids. Maybe we talk that through with the spouse if we're married, with even our parents if they're alive and they're healthy for us, maybe a best friend, maybe a pastor, maybe a counselor: "I'm having a hard time getting through this moment in time."

It's one of the reasons that I do write in the book about how important it is for adult parents to have all other identities solid as well. You're not just parenting adult kids. You're a member of a choir, you're a neighbor's best friend, you're a wife or a husband, you're a consultant in this way and that way, and you're still an important person at work. Know who you are so that you don't depend only on your parenting relationship to get your confidence from.

Jim Daly: Without a doubt, and this is day one. I want you to come back and let's continue for day two. We've touched on it, but I don't want to land; it feels heavy. There's hope for you, Mom and Dad. Regardless of what your adult child does responsively, you doing the right thing is the right thing to do.

I want to encourage you to get the book, especially if you have conflict in that relationship with your adult child. What you're responsible for is improving that relationship. There's no guarantee that the adult child's going to change, but that's not the motivation. It's to be the light of Christ, to be loving and kind as Christ would be, and to do the things you're responsible to do to give the opportunity for your adult child to respond.

So let's do it. Let's come back next time. *Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children*—who doesn't want that? Call today. Our number is 800-232-6459. Make a donation as you can, and we'll send that book right away. You can go to our website and download Dr. Kathy's "Declaration of Release." She's given us that to offer you for free. Stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

If today's conversation brought up any concerns, if there's tension, ask to speak with one of our caring Christian counselors. Kathy, again, thanks for being with us. Let's come back and hit it again.

Kathy Koch: I'd love to.

John Fuller: Hey parents, for almost 40 years, Adventures in Odyssey has been helping kids like yours form relationships with Christ. Now, the animated Adventures in Odyssey film, *Journey into the Impossible*, will reach a new generation of families. But we need your help to finish the film and launch it in theaters. Your gift will be matched dollar for dollar before May 1st. See the trailer and donate today at focusonthefamily.com/impossible. That's focusonthefamily.com/impossible.