Focus on the Family

John Fuller: This is John Fuller, and Father’s Day is a time to honor those men who lead their families with courage. On the new seasonal podcast from Focus on the Family, *Legacy of Courage*, we uplift dads with real stories, sharing humor, tender moments, and lessons that will stay with you.

Hearing from first-time dads to adoptive dads to seasoned pros, you’ll be reminded about the power of a father rooted in God’s strength and why showing up matters. You’ll find it at celebratingfathers.com. This program is sponsored by Focus on the Family, and your generosity brings hope to families every day.

Brant Hansen: Masculinity has been deconstructed so effectively and so much. Some of that was very helpful to deconstruct what we shouldn't be. But what is the construction?

Jim Daly: That is a great question from Brant Hansen, and he joins us again on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Last time, we had a wonderful conversation with him about living out your true calling and purpose as a man. Today, we’ll hear more of his insights. Thanks for listening. I’m John Fuller.

John, that was a great discussion yesterday with Brant. The thing that caught me is this idea of tending the garden, right out of Genesis. The fact that Adam looked the other way while Eve was being lured in, and he was standing nearby according to Scripture. He didn’t step in and defend her or aim things in a more godly way.

We all suffer from that poor decision that Adam made. It’s called a sinful environment now because he disobeyed God. What a beautiful analogy to bring that forward and teach each of us men how to be the healthier Adam, the better Adam, the tender of the garden Adam. That means your marriage, your household, or if you’re a single guy, developing yourself and aiming for something more meaningful than the dopamine hits we get from gaming and pornography and those things that take us down. I thought it was really powerful.

John Fuller: It was a very proactive, engaging conversation. Brant is an author and radio host. He’s heard on over 200 Christian radio stations and has authored a number of books. Today, we’re focusing on *The Men We Need: God's Purpose for the Manly Man, the Avid Indoorsman, or Any Man Willing to Show Up*. Of course, we have copies of that book here at the ministry.

Jim Daly: John, you missed one of the biggest points. He won Personality of the Year. He got a special parking spot, I’m sure.

Brant Hansen: I’m just fixated on that. The irony is I don’t have that much personality. I think it’s just such a great little award. Since I’ve won more than once, they said I’ve won multiple Personality of the Year awards. We have to phrase it that way. Different iterations of Brant get different awards.

Jim Daly: That’s so great. For the listener, they might remember you being on the program. You struggle with autism. That’s something that’s part of your life, and you’ve really done such a fantastic job overcoming those obstacles. You’re an author and a radio personality, so you’ve done well. Well done.

Brant Hansen: Thanks. I think it’s one reason this book is different than maybe a lot of man books I’m hearing. It’s biblically based, but because I’ve got neurological problems being on the spectrum—like my eyes move back and forth, I have a thing called nystagmus, which is pretty profound—I have to move my head to negotiate for that.

It’s very obvious to people when they first meet me. But that kept me from activities like axe throwing. You don’t want the guy with nystagmus to be the receiver of your axe throwing night. No, how about not? We find you something else to do.

Coming at it from that angle, for guys that aren’t into that stuff, to be able to say everybody’s welcome here. When people say guys need to stand up and be men, what do you mean? For a lot of us, we can’t play football. I couldn't qualify for the military. What does masculinity look like then for all of us? I think there’s got to be a deeper thing that underlies it. I think this is it. It’s the keeper of the garden thing that Adam was given to do specifically by God.

Jim Daly: I so appreciate that. It definitely will guide my conversations with my young adult sons now that are in their early 20s. We’re going to have that talk and use that metaphor and apply many of these things.

Last time, we talked about forsaking the fake world of technology to relish what is real and investing in relationships, which everybody struggles with generally, but the younger generations particularly are really struggling in that area. The second one was protecting the vulnerable. If you missed it last time, go back and listen again. Get the app for the smartphone or whatever you need to do. Call us, and we’ll send you the download so you can hear it.

Let’s pick it up with the third decision that you’ve encouraged guys to make, and this is a biggie: be ambitious about the right things. Why do you think so many men are dissatisfied about the regular world, if I could call it that? Is it about their choices or what’s going on for them to have such dissatisfaction with normal?

Brant Hansen: I don’t think they have any idea what they’re supposed to be doing and what would actually be life-giving to them and to the people around them. They don’t know. They have to be told. Just like we all can be trained into things—this is called discipleship—you have to give people a picture for it.

What I find with a lot of guys left without being told wisdom about what it means to be a man, to be a keeper of the garden, is that you just go towards whatever the culture is pushing on you. It can be various shades of things that are offered.

The problem is, even if you’re ambitious and think you will work hard and make a lot of money and so on and so forth to be a good citizen, let’s say you’ve got little kids in the house now. Is it all about your work now? Being ambitious isn’t enough. It’s being ambitious about the right things.

What I’m trying to say, for example, in that scenario, is you need to understand life is in seasons. Right now is little kid season. This is it. You make decisions based on that. You have to understand what wisdom is. It’s knowing what’s valuable versus something else.

Jim Daly: You said you made perhaps one of the best right decisions when your kids were young. What happened?

Brant Hansen: I totally did. Out of all the dumb decisions I have made, I nailed this one. I had a very stressful job. I was doing talk radio. It was three hours a day of arguing about politics and whatnot. I was fairly good at it, and the ratings were fine, but it was stressful.

I thought I would go to law school just to shift gears and do something less stressful. So I went ahead and got into law schools and got some really sweet offers. But I was talking to my lawyer friends who said, "When you get out of law school, you’re going to have to take a job at a big firm. You’ll be home one evening a week."

So I took a job that paid almost nothing, and we moved the family down to South Florida at the time. But I was done with work at noon every day. Since we homeschooled the kids, I had every afternoon to play with them. Mainly I played. I should have helped more with the homeschooling, but I mostly just took them to the pool, to the beach, played and laughed. I was the PE director.

I know my kids, and then later on, my career was fine when I had more time. That was a brilliant move. We did not have much money. We were stressed out a little bit about the money thing, but honestly, God provided just enough the whole way. I would never trade that.

Jim Daly: Think of that. That’s a big statement.

Brant Hansen: I don’t have those regrets. It’s so important to ask God and to understand what’s of value and what’s not right now. That’s a big part of being ambitious about the right things.

Jim Daly: Guys find it hard to figure out where that trigger is. If I’ve gone to business school—just fill in the blank, whatever education you have—or vocation, let’s include those folks that aren’t going to college and they’re getting on the fast track to do their vocational trade. It’s hard to manage that. You think the number one thing is we need resources, financial resources to pay the mortgage, to feed the kids, to get them the school stuff. Especially in this environment with hyperinflation and everything we’ve got going, it may not even show up on the screen. What if we were to do less? I have more time with the kids, and we’ll have to stretch every penny.

Brant Hansen: For some people, this is impossible. They are in a financial situation where they can’t do anything else. But for most people, I don’t think that’s true because of buying decisions. You wind up serving this car. Why do I have to have this nice truck? Why do I have to have this nice car? Am I James Bond or something? Why can’t I drive an '87 Corolla if I have to?

I can. So there are decisions a lot of times that I can make that will free us up from stress and allow me to enjoy my wife and enjoy my kids before it’s too late. You do not get those years back.

Jim Daly: What’s so interesting is your example of the one right thing that you said you did. There’s not a plethora of those examples. There are plenty of examples of men who chose career. We can list what the outcomes of their family life were like: typically divorced, remarried, maybe divorced twice, who knows.

Brant Hansen: If they were given a vision of being a keeper of the garden, this is your actual role in this world. These people around you need to thrive and bloom. You’ve been entrusted with these humans. You’re not all about domineering them. You don’t own them.

What you do as a loving father and husband in this scenario is make sure that these people can thrive. They get to bloom. I will defend them. I will create a secure space for them. Part of that security is knowing that you’re there.

Jim Daly: So that’s being ambitious for the right things. That’s the third one. The fourth one now: make women and children feel safe, not threatened.

Brant Hansen: This is a big thing because a lot of us will pat ourselves on the back. Again, I’m talking as a married guy here. A lot of us will pat ourselves on the back and say, "If an intruder ever came into my home, I would defend my wife against him. I would do whatever it takes to defend her." Most of us would. That’s good.

The problem—and I read this account in another book but I had to put it in mine too because it was so honest—a guy’s friend was just saying, "You know the problem is most of the time that doesn't happen, but the intruder is me with my words."

My wife has to guard herself against my attitude, my words, my lack of involvement, my lack of security, my hurtfulness. You can pause and hurt your wife. If she says "I love you" and you pause and then say "I love you too," even the slightest things can be a curse to somebody.

I’m trying to say to guys to rethink that scenario where "I would defend my wife." Okay, start with your presence and your words. When you see that, it’s not a guilt trip. A lot of guys can be hearing this and going, "Oh boy, I guess I blown it." No, it’s an opportunity. We can change starting today.

Jim Daly: For our Hope Restored program, this is the main thing they talk about: security. Women need security, and they need to feel that from their husbands.

One of the things, too, I don’t even realize this at times. I’m a pretty big guy. I played football. Sometimes when I’m talking to the boys or to Jean, she will say, "Whoa, you’re coming off a little strong right now." I don’t even know it. Honestly, you don’t even know you’re kind of getting up for the big game, I guess, and she’ll be able to talk me down a little bit. I didn't even realize I was being aggressive.

Brant Hansen: Me too. I get all lawyerly and insistent and whatever, and my wife has had to make me aware of that.

Jim Daly: But those are threatening things.

Brant Hansen: Exactly. I wouldn't think that, especially if I’m up against another guy and we’re in the weight room talking. You don’t think it at all. This is the way we banter. But this is my garden, and these are the species in my garden whom I love and want them to thrive and flourish because they knew me. I want them to flourish because they knew me.

John Fuller: So when your wife calls you on being lawyerly, is it against the backdrop of "I know your heart, but right now," or does she tend to be a little firmer on that?

Brant Hansen: She’s pretty firm. My wife’s brilliant and direct and firm. But she’s right. I have to be able to be willing to understand she respects me more when I’m embodying this thing that I’m talking about here about being a source of security. People are drawn to that too because everybody’s so insecure now. This is men, women, everybody, children. But to have somebody who’s not anxious, somebody who’s at peace, somebody who’s not angry, who is secure—people are drawn to it because there’s just not much of that.

Jim Daly: Protection and safety go beyond the physical needs. We’ve alluded to that, how we speak, the posture that we take. How did Jesus model this for us with His statements and His actions? Wipping the tables—that’s pretty aggressive, right? But then asking questions of the woman at the well—it’s pretty gentle.

Brant Hansen: I write one chapter called "The Jesus Masterclass on How to Treat Women," and there are several things that He does. It’s very honoring. Just an example, Jairus is the head guy at the synagogue. He’s a big shot, important guy. His daughter is sick. Jesus puts him on the back burner for a woman who wasn't even supposed to be there in the crowd, who’s bleeding and is embarrassed and unclean.

Jairus and his retinue had to be like, "Wait, her? Why?" He elevates her. You’re not supposed to do that in that culture. You don’t even do that in this culture very often where you bump a woman who’s considered unclean above an important guy.

Or when He is at Mary and Martha’s and Mary comes in and sits at His feet. She’s in the living room sitting on the floor—probably they all were with Him. That’s where the guys go. I’ve been in cultures, if you travel, there are cultures where you don’t see the women of the house. They stay in the kitchen and they pass the food underneath a curtain where all the guys are sitting in the main room, or they have the kids bring out the food and set it down there. Mary’s like, "No, I’m going to learn from this man." He was doing something revolutionary by saying, "You’re welcome here, and this is a very good idea." There’s a million ways that Jesus subtly and not so subtly elevates women and respects them in a lot of ways that we just don’t even think about.

John Fuller: You’re hearing today from Brant Hansen. He’s our guest on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. The book that forms the foundation for this conversation is *The Men We Need: God's Purpose for the Manly Man, the Avid Indoorsman, or Any Man Willing to Show Up*. Get a copy when you call us. Our number is 800-A-FAMILY or stop by our website, focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim Daly: Brant, becoming a godly man is all wound up in point five, which is choosing today who you want to become tomorrow. I like that. For the guys that are feeling guilty right now, or maybe the wives that are listening saying, "Oh, Bob’s not going to like this," there’s always tomorrow. The Lord gives you breath and you want to wake up and do things better. Speak to that idea of having a plan for correcting those things that aren’t tending the garden.

Brant Hansen: Here’s the plan, and I like that it’s hopeful. This isn’t about beating ourselves up because we failed. We didn’t know sometimes. We didn't know exactly what we’re supposed to be doing and we make mistakes. The plan is this: you’re going to become whatever you’re paying attention to right now.

That’s it. What you pay attention to is who you’re going to become. You pay to attend things. Your brain can sit and attend to this or that, but that’s shaping who you’re becoming.

I think it was the late Larry Crabb, whom we had on the program many times here at Focus, who said, "Line up a hundred men, watch them closely for a week. 70 or 80 of them will be ruled by a passion called neediness." What was he driving towards there? I think I get that, but what’s the difference? What is the neediness that 80% are looking for and what’s the opposite of that?

Still trying to achieve significance on their own through career achievement, money, sex, attractiveness. It could be a million different things. But they’re still not secure as men. It just comes bleeding out, especially in a workplace environment where you wonder why it is so competitive or fear-based. It’s because people are still needy.

To get to a point where you start paying attention to the right things—I’m talking about bringing the Lord into your mind, growing, listening to things that are wise, paying attention to wisdom—you will become a more secure person.

Jim Daly: It’s so true. So many wealthy men that I’ve met tend to, especially the non-Christian—I think Christians tend to do this better, not perfectly, but better—where they’ll say, "I was aiming for that next deal, and I just told myself if I get that next deal that’s going to give me X amount of money, I’m done. I’ll be fine." And then what they find is when they get there, it’s really the next deal. It’s like a deal junkie. They’re never going to have enough. It won’t be the perfect deal. Therefore, we’ve got to move to the next deal to get that satisfaction or that significance.

Brant Hansen: Or just needing complimented all the time, needing this or that. Here’s a wonderful thing that C.S. Lewis was talking about. He said you really have to watch when you’re younger because you’re on a trajectory. So a little attitude—he called it a grumble—if you’re a grumbly person when you’re 25, people are like, "Okay, it’s all right." But you’re on this trajectory. You wind up when you’re older, you become just a grumble.

We become more and more a caricature of what we’re fostering in our lives. If you’re off by one degree for a moonshot, you miss the moon by 3,100 miles because of the trajectory of things. That’s why I think a lot of older people, you can look at this person and say, "Man, he’s a saint. He listens, he offers wisdom, everybody just loves being around him." Or you can see the anger on somebody’s face. They become nothing but anger and they’re at the grocery store hitting you with their shopping carts. You become this extreme thing that you were fostering when you were younger.

Jim Daly: Let me ask you this in the context of your old radio days doing a lot of political commentary. That’s an environment where you do get angry because people seem like they’re not thinking. The word stupid comes to mind. But policies that are put in place, things that aren't helpful for the most people are put into place. You look at public education, all the things that are going on there, what’s being taught. You can gen that anger up to where you’re really behaving as poorly as those you’re opposing.

Brant Hansen: Here’s another thing that happens, and I think it’s more subtle, especially I see this with older folks. We need you to be at peace. We need you to be the voice of the family or the voice of your neighborhood, the voice of your church, where you’re thinking in terms of the kingdom of God. But if you’re sitting there basting in propaganda—whatever the propaganda is, whatever the news is—if you’re watching that all the time, you’re not going to be that person.

Now we’re missing you. People need older people with wisdom in the culture. But you’re so awash in this stuff. I know the news of the day is important, but we need somebody to offer some peace and a lack of anxiety. Instead, you’re anxious now because you’re sitting there getting all genned up. Nobody’s tending that garden of politics. It’s overgrown, it’s weed-infested, it’s gnarly. But we need to be Christian men and do the right things and do it with the right attitude.

The key, though, is the alternatives to that neediness that we were talking about a minute ago. If we could take that from 80% to 10%, how would we do that to get men focused on the right things again?

I’m taking a shot with writing this book. I think this is God’s vision for us. I think women respond the way they do because they intuitively know it is to be a keeper of the garden, to be a source of security for the vulnerable around us. Your neighborhood should be safer just because you’re there.

Let’s move to decision six: take responsibility for your own spiritual life. Seems right. It is, but if I were just looking at that chapter, I’d be like, "Okay, here we go, it’s the old you need to do this and that." It’s actually good news. It’s not a guilt trip again for guys.

I’m saying for a lot of guys, they associate spiritual because our culture does this with emotional. A lot of guys feel left out or they’ve done something wrong with God, they don’t even understand the whole thing, it doesn't compute. If you’re more analytical—this can be for more analytical women, too—that’s definitely me. I don’t respond emotionally to a lot of stuff that other people do. Like a certain song, everybody’s "Wow, we went to the chorus and then we modulated up and now our hands are in the air." I’m sitting watching them like, "Yeah, but they do that at the Journey concert too when they modulate or they hit that chorus again."

So I’m always analyzing. Maybe I’m too skeptical. But what I’ve realized reading the stories of people in the Bible is spiritual isn't about emotions. Being spiritual is about loyalty, faithfulness to God. You just keep showing up. That’s the fork in the road as we’ve talked these last couple of days, that decision tree that’s always in front of us as guys. Do we look at this? You have to say yes or no. Loyalty and faithfulness is what should drive you to God. When guys understand that, we’re like, "I can do that."

This is part of if you’re in the military, you have a job to people around you. I can keep showing up. God deserves my believing loyalty. That daily thing where it’s like, "I’m going to partner with God in life, like Abraham."

Jim Daly: Brant, let’s wrap up right here. These are great concepts. I’m actually quite excited to talk to Trent and Troy about this. We’re going to sit down and read this book together. The concepts are great, and the vision is so strong about being the Adam, tend the garden, protect Eve, protect your children, help the vulnerable, all the things that we’ve talked about these last couple of days.

But I am thinking of the guy who’s maybe in his 60s, maybe older, who is looking back going, "I really—first time I’ve really heard this. I did chase the money. I did go through two marriages." Whatever it might be. How would you encourage him? What would you say to him to pick up today and move forward?

Brant Hansen: It’s not too late. In fact, somebody repenting—that's what we're talking about, rethinking—somebody who repents or rethinks, gets humble when they’re in their 60s or 70s, it’s more impressive. All I can say to somebody who’s listening and going, "Well, I wish I would have thought about this before, I wish I would have had that idea before, but I didn't think about that, I didn't live that way"—all I can tell you is much respect to you for saying, "But now I will." I just have tons of respect for that.

It’s interesting, I’m thinking of something someone once said to me about the Holy Spirit. That evidence of the Holy Spirit in a Christian’s life is a changed heart, changed actions. That’s the thing that really is the evidence. He was this and he’s now this. That’s a changed heart. How impressive is that? Where do you see that anywhere else in the world where somebody who’s 70 is like, "You know what, I realized I got to do this and now I’m going to serve people in this way better." That alone makes me believe in God even more. It’s so good.

Jim Daly: Brant, you’ve done a wonderful job with this book, *The Men We Need*. I think it is one of those resources that every dad should digest and every husband to be able to be that garden tender and hopefully not miss the way Adam did miss. That’s the goal.

And then to teach your sons what it means. I hear from so many Christian parents who have daughters. I have not been blessed with a daughter. I wish I had one, but I don’t. But how they say, "Where are the Christian guys that my daughter can marry?" That’s my job with two boys. I’ve got to help prepare my sons to be the husbands they need to be.

This is one of those resources. If you can, join us and be a part of the ministry. Make a gift of any amount. A monthly gift is best for us. That’s how John and I both do this with Focus. We support Focus monthly. But a one-time gift is good as well. We’ll send you the book as our way of saying thank you if you can support us that way. If you can’t afford it, we’ll get it in your hands as part of the ministry here at Focus on the Family. We believe in the content that much and what Brant has to say here. So just ask for it and we’ll get it to you. Most importantly, apply it and we’ll have a different world.

John Fuller: Contact us today. Our number is 800-A-FAMILY or visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Next time, Dr. Gary Chapman explains how to make a better apology.

Gary Chapman: What I’m suggesting is this: that each of us has a primary apology language. One of these five speaks more deeply to us emotionally than the others. Now, we would appreciate any of these. But if you don’t speak the primary language, chances are in my heart I’m asking, "Are you really sincere?" I mean, "I’m sorry" is not enough for me.

John Fuller: That’s next time on Focus on the Family. Remember when you get in touch, let us know how you’re listening: on our website, through our mobile app, or on our podcast feed. I’m John Fuller, and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, join us next time as we help you and your family thrive.