Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

John Fuller: Well, there have been times when I've just thought, I've looked at Dina and thought, should I tell her this? And it's not because it's some deep dark secret. It's just I don't like being judged. I don't like being told you're probably wrong about that. Although she is probably the greatest source of myself corrections and my improvements. But what if being more vulnerable really would bring us together closer? I'm John Fuller, joined by Greg and Erin Smalley. They head up our marriage team here. And we're going to be talking today about trust and vulnerability. Let's go ahead and listen now to a conversation that Jim Daly enjoyed with Ryan and Selena Frederick.

They shared about being open with each other and how that's actually made them feel closer than ever.

Jim Daly: You know, I want to go there and I in the open I talked about brain chemistry and all that. And I know some are going to say, well, I'm more like how men act and my husband's more like how. And I get that. It's kind of the 80/20 rule. But how much of that plays into our I guess our inability to especially as men. I'll just ask you, Selena. You know, just me as a husband. I mean, this is for Gene and I, this is our thing in our marriage. I mean, she's you know, she just feels like I I'm not as connected emotionally.

Some of that's trauma. You know, I had a hard childhood. I 'm sure it's survival instincts. But how do we as men become more aware or how do we you know, engage our wives? It's a little frightening to us.

Selena Frederick: Sure. You know, I think the biggest thing is knowing them, knowing how they feel loved. Often times I think we project how I feel loved through words of affirmation. So therefore I'm going to give my husband words of affirmation when maybe that doesn't speak volumes at all to him. Right. So kind of again, learning their love language, understanding I mean, you mentioned family of origin and past trauma. I think I can identify with that of not knowing how to always receive the love. And I think maybe women you know, come from a generation of divorce and men falling out of the household.

And so then I'm looking at him trying to connect with him and loving him and allowing him to love me. But that can be a struggle because I haven't identified that as you know, knowing a savior through your father and that's a disconnect.

Ryan Frederick: Yeah. I would add to that in addition to the kind of the family of origin piece too, which is very important. A lot of men, me included, tend to just be pretty low on the emotional intelligence scale.

Jim Daly: Correct. I mean, that's true.

Ryan Frederick: And so how do we here's a revelation that I had even in the last couple of years is that we can actually grow in this area, that I can actually learn skills of emotional intelligence or I can learn to to put words to how I'm feeling and actually communicate those in a healthy way to my wife. And that is that giving her a window into

Selena Frederick: And I can learn to communicate better to you as well and not just blow up and emotionally and walk out.

Ryan Frederick: But so often so often we just we just kind of pigeonhole ourselves and say I'm I'm this way and I'll never be that type of guy. I think that's a lie. I think you can learn these things.

Jim Daly: Yeah, and some of I appreciate that, Selena, because so often I think in my own experience, I feel like Gene's expectations are so high. I only got one route and that's disappointment. Cuz I can't get on that highway with you. And but she's you know, she has that expectation. In fact, Ryan, two years ago or so you you had you know, some painful experiences, your memories of your family. Describe what happened there so people can latch onto this.

Ryan Frederick: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so basically God had been kind of softening my heart to this thing. And it took months probably for me to get to the point that I'm going to explain here. But basically I had been remembering things from my childhood like 9, 10, 11, 12 years old around there that really just made me feel a lot of shame. Uh and the details aren't honestly that important. So I think everybody has something in there that's like it's just kind of squished down

Jim Daly: Yeah, fill in the noun.

Ryan Frederick: Right. Yeah.

Jim Daly: Whatever it is.

Ryan Frederick: And I was just like, yeah, that's not relevant to our marriage. I just I just thought of it for whatever reason, but I don't need to deal with it. So I kept kind of pushing it down. But the Holy Spirit would not let that remain. Right? And so I was in church one morning and we were doing communion. And I was just and it was just like I just felt this clear as day, you need to just be transparent in this. You you're writing a book on this. Right? And you try to live this. And so anyway

Jim Daly: That's called conviction.

Ryan Frederick: Right. It's so inconvenient. Right?

Jim Daly: We don't like that either.

Ryan Frederick: No, it's terrible. And so on the way home from church I just said, hey, I got to talk to you about it. It was actually during communion I said this. I said, I need to tell you something. Just so you know, like it's from a long time ago, but I just need to let be known in this way. And so you're kind of Selena's kind of like on pins and needles. Right? Like we didn't really talk a lot going home. We went out to lunch with the kids. They had By God's grace they all fell asleep in the car.

And so we had this private moment and I could just say this is and let's put it all out there. And uh but your reaction I thought you were going to just reject me and just like basically throw it in my face and and make me feel more shame. And I was going out on a limb and instead she says, hey, I just help you love you more. By the way, here's how I can be vulnerable. And now you start she starts sharing all these things that she had kind of been feeling the same level of conviction on.

And then you know, an hour later we felt closer than ever.

John Fuller: All right, Greg. So I know how vulnerability might look in my marriage. There's not a right answer here, but how has it looked for you and for Erin?

Greg Smalley: Yeah, I I think for me it really took understanding that why vulnerability is so important in our marriage because it converts a marriage from two people who are kind of managing logistics to two people who are actually known by each other. And I don't think walking into my marriage that I really fully understood why that that's so important. That deep longing, even if you're not aware of it, even if you do life more in your brain, there is something powerful about having that person, my person who really knows me, who sees me. And the only way to get there is through vulnerability.

You have to be willing to share who you really are. And then trusting that when that person hears all that that you're still going to be loved and accepted and in all of that because the vulnerability really is about you being willing to share deeply about what's really going on, mistakes, you know, thoughts and fears and what's stressing you out and and what you're dreaming about. Like just that stuff that requires us to be aware of that in ourselves, but then a willingness to put that out there to our spouse. And that's true vulnerability. And that requires safety.

And so it's not fair to say, well, vulnerability is so important and you need to be vulnerable. You guys really then need to talk about how safe do we feel to be vulnerable? And what does that look like? And how do we make our marriage even safer?

Jim Daly: Yeah, I think the uh the starting with self here is important for me to ask Dina, how do I help you feel safe?

Selena Frederick: Right. I would also say I would go back to a previous episode where we talked about feeling safe with self because if I don't feel safe with me, I'm not going to be vulnerable.

Jim Daly: Okay, so give us some give us understanding of what that just hit that real quick for those who didn't hear that episode.

Selena Frederick: Yeah, that I have confidence that I know what to do if I put my heart out there and it doesn't go well, it doesn't feel safe, that I know that I can trust me, I can pull my heart back, feel safe with me. And I can care for my heart, allow God to minister to my heart and then I can go back and say, hey, whatever just went on didn't feel safe to me or didn't feel great to me. So I'm just letting you know. So if I know that I've got my heart, I've got me, I 'm going to be way more likely to put my heart out there.

Jim Daly: Yeah, I I just was talking to one of my kids and um and she was telling me about the benefit of boundaries and how she can be around somebody who's toxic and not get just crushed by that toxicity and even will say, I no thanks, don't need that. And and and she's drawing lines that she hasn't drawn before in a good way. And so that that protects the heart.

Selena Frederick: Yes.

Jim Daly: And um the flip side of that is when you're good with your own self, you can extend that level of vulnerability based on trust with the other person, not with that toxic person, because of trust. And that that includes and this is kind of weird to say it, but that includes a willingness to be vulnerable with yourself. It's like being willing to say, what's really going on for me? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What are some of those hopes and dreams and fears and all that stuff that you need to share with your spouse to be vulnerable, that really should be the work you're doing first and foremost with yourself.

And the the better I get at just being aware of that stuff, then that's what I'm able to share with Erin.

John Fuller: And we have a free marriage assessment. Over a million people have taken this. And Greg, your team designed this. I'd love for you to give some highlights for why this is such a great tool.

Jim Daly: Well, based on what we've been talking about vulnerability, when you're both willing to honestly answer these questions, what it's going to do is it's going to show you areas you're doing really well in. And what's great about that is that as you talk about, here's what we're doing well, celebrate those things. That draws you in and into a deeper relationship. It's also going to show you some areas that you guys can grow in. So as long as you're both willing to be safe around that conversation and to to really make it so let's really explore both ends of that, what we're doing well in how we can improve.

Man, that takes your relationship to a different level.

Selena Frederick: And research shows when you take an assessment of your marriage together, it actually improves your connection. So it's worth doing because it's going to help you identify both strengths and growth areas. And it's going to you're doing something together for your marriage.

Jim Daly: Yes. So take that free marriage assessment and the link is in the show notes. Also make a contribution to this ministry. Support this show. And when you make that donation we will send a copy of the book from Ryan and Selena called See Through Marriage. It's a terrific tool. It's going to augment that free marriage assessment. And so make a donation today. We'll send the book to you. And if you enjoyed what you heard, please leave a rating and a review for us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen. On behalf of the Smalleys and the entire team, I'm John Fuller.

And thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.