Focus on the Family Strengthening Marriage Podcast

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John Fuller: Let's pretend your spouse irritated you the other day, or last night, or this morning, and your response is to offer some constructive criticism. Let us know how that goes. Leave a note in the comments for the show notes page.

But actually, what if you prayed? What if you took an opportunity right then and there to instead of criticizing, just quietly pray for your spouse? I'm John Fuller. We're going to be talking about prayer today with Greg and Erin Smalley.

We're going to kick off now with a conversation that Jim Daly had on his show, Focus on the Family. He spoke with Ron and Deb DeArmond and they shared about how they've navigated frustrating moments in their relationship.

Jim Daly: You tell couples that you can't be each other's Holy Spirit. Okay, that's the dagger of the program right there, because we do that in marriage. We have expectations. We know you can do better because I do better in that area, you could be doing better in that area. And I'm in fact trying to be the Holy Spirit in your life. So speak to that straight and let me know why that's not a good approach.

Ron DeArmond: There truly is something that I know I feel, especially in money things or things like that that we've agreed on, that when I violate that, I'm feeling something. I'm feeling a prick that this isn't what we agreed on and...

Jim Daly: How do you differentiate between not being somebody's Holy Spirit and getting the point across?

Deb DeArmond: I think that the Holy Spirit really can do a better job than I can. So I'm going to pray. I'm going to bathe that issue in prayer.

Ron DeArmond: Can I recite one of my prayers like that? Oh God. Oh God.

Deb DeArmond: That's it, right there.

Ron DeArmond: Make her see my point.

Jim Daly: Now, are you praying this in front of...

Ron DeArmond: Oh no, no. This is a calm prayer. This is the car prayer. This is the out front prayer, like, oh God, only she'll see. We can't shame people into seeing it our way.

But it is a prayer of faith that... and it's amazing, truly. On the way home from work and that thing, and you walk in the house and everything's different. It's like, you honored that short, heartfelt prayer of I need your help because I can't do this myself.

Jim Daly: Is there a time when that's not an appropriate prayer?

Ron DeArmond: Not between me and Him, it's never not appropriate. I jumped on that emotionally when you said it. I felt it. It's always appropriate just to get my feelings out and say, "This is frustrating, this is not," and just share my emotion with Him.

He's the God of all comfort. He's ready to comfort me in that. But it's amazing what He does when we get together that it's like, oh my gosh, there's a peace where we can talk about the tension.

Deb DeArmond: A great example is that before we were engaged and teens, we had curfews from both of our parents. And the night that he led me to the Lord was the night before we graduated from high school and we were out way past that curfew.

Jim Daly: You're in trouble. You needed God.

Deb DeArmond: We knew it. And we both prayed. And when he walked in, his mother was sitting in her rocking chair and she looked up and said, "Hi, did you have a good evening?" And he said, "I did." And she was done talking and I went directly to my room.

It was pretty much the same for me. God honored that because we weren't misbehaving. We weren't being defiant. And God goes before us, thank goodness.

Jim Daly: Yeah, that's so true. Let's end here, speaking about that night and what then transformed your lives. You ended up getting married. But Ron, you did something very romantic, very typical for Ron, and I say that actually with applause. But what did you do 38 years later because maybe you felt it wasn't done right the first time?

Ron DeArmond: We talked so much when we were engaged and not even engaged. We would talk so much just in our relationship and it's like, so do you want to get married? It's like, yeah, I think it's time, I think you know. So that was our proposal.

Yeah, we were 18 and going into this and all of a sudden the proposal was out. It was like, oh, okay, well then these are the next things. So it was really never... well, except that I had to go talk to her dad, of course. And he'd just gotten all of his teeth pulled.

Jim Daly: Not good timing. He really couldn't object.

Ron DeArmond: Not good time. No, no. I couldn't laugh because I had talked to Mr. Graham many, many times, and now he had no teeth and it was... as soon as I was done talking to him, I said, "We have to go right now. We have to leave."

And she honored that and we got out of the house because you understand my trip. It was so hard. But I wanted her hand. Anyway, it was a thing of wanting to give her the surprise.

Jim Daly: So what did you do 38 years later? What happened?

Ron DeArmond: We were planning a trip to California, all the kids there, and I talked to my son who lives there and he's in advertising. I said, "We need a photographer to shoot pictures and find a beach where we can go and set up the whole thing." And I had a new ring for her.

The kids knew about it. Everybody knew about it except for her. And so they had arranged to shoot all the other kids and then us last. And so I get right to that point where I'm ready to pose with her and then I drop to one knee.

Deb DeArmond: I thought he was having a stroke or heart attack. I really did. He went down to one knee. It so startled me. He was in the sand. He's never done that before.

And so just that... you know, if you had it all to do over again, would you want to do it with me? He said, "Knowing what the last 38 years has been, would you still say yes? Would you still choose me today?" He said those words.

Jim Daly: Did you hesitate?

Deb DeArmond: To be honest, all the words I understood, I couldn't put them together to mean something. And I went, "Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely." And then he pulled the ring out of his pocket and then I understood.

But when we sat together later, overlooking the Pacific, and I said, "Where did you get this idea?" He said, "Well, when we spoke to that young marrieds group and they asked how you proposed, you told them we just started making marriage plans. Every girl should have a proposal and this is yours, even if it's 38 years later."

Jim Daly: Yeah, that's so good.

John Fuller: Well Erin, what a beautiful story of a re-engagement. And our theme this month on the show is spiritual intimacy. So how does it feel when you're hearing Greg or seeing him demonstrate something like "I'm still choosing you, Erin. You're still the one."?

Erin Smalley: Yeah, that feels really good. And what I appreciate about when we say "I still choose you," you know that there's a lot of history there. There's the good, the bad, the ugly, the hard, the great. And it's a choice. I remember Greg's dad wrote a book called *Love Is a Decision*.

And I remember hearing that prior to getting married and going, "Huh, love has to be a decision." But now, 34 years into marriage, I understand love is a decision because there are those hard moments to where you might not feel love, where your heart's closed.

But then amazingly when your heart reopens, those feelings of love return. And so it's in the interim choosing like "I choose you and I'm going to continue to choose you." And that is just like healing ointment in those hard moments.

John Fuller: Oh, that's good. And we're here to help you grow and to stay connected. And we're going to encourage you to get a copy of the book from Deb DeArmond called *I Choose You Today: 31 Choices to Make Love Last*. We've got that here at the ministry and we'd invite your financial participation with us.

Make a gift of any amount, support this show and this ministry. We'll send Deb's book to you as our way of saying thanks. And the link is in the show notes. Also, we have an article via the show notes called "Choosing to Love Your Spouse," written by Deb, and it's got more encouraging thoughts for you to apply to your relationship.

Look for that link in the show notes. And while you're there, be sure to leave a comment for us and subscribe to the show so you get all the latest episodes. Next time, Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn discuss financial unity as a couple. Maybe you fight over money? They're going to share some great insights and stories and that's next time. For now, on behalf of Greg and Erin Smalley and the team, thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.

Jim Daly: Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us. And it's our job as believers to share His truth with a world in need.

I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocuswithjimdaly.com.