Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

John Fuller: Well, if your spouse is emotionally disconnected, it can really take a toll on your marriage. And we're talking this month about emotional safety and security. And so uh we're so glad you've tuned in because this is an important topic. I'm John Fuller, joined by Dr. Greg and Dr. Erin Smalley, and uh they lead the Focus Marriage team. Greg, couples struggling with emotional disconnection. I would imagine all of us have it there's a kind of a continuum. We have it occasionally, we have it a lot. Uh it doesn't necessarily mean it's terrible, but uh talk about emotional disconnection and how it affects the marriage.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, and it's pretty prevalent. You know, I I haven't seen like one big national study that says this percentage of you know couples deal with disconnection or feeling like you know roommates. But what's interesting, there have been a lot of uh therapists who as they ask for their paperwork and they have couples fill out some intake forms and some little tests and things, what they found is that about 70% of couples in therapy feel disconnected. They feel like they're in that roommate kind of marriage. And so it's

John Fuller: Yeah.

Dr. Greg Smalley: you know for a couple seeking help that 70% I mean that that's a lot, which makes sense. You know if they weren't feeling that way, they probably wouldn't be in there getting help.

John Fuller: Sure.

Dr. Greg Smalley: I know that 24% of couples here in the US are in crisis.

John Fuller: Mhm.

Dr. Greg Smalley: So probably a major reason why they're in crisis. So the bottom line, regardless of what the right statistic is, this is happening for a lot of couples. They feel like married roommates.

John Fuller: Mhm. Yeah, and it's important to acknowledge and address emotional connection or the lack thereof um because it will catch up with you. This is uh a chance for us to now turn to Focus President Jim Daly. He spoke with Jim Turner about better connecting with your spouse and your family. Jim shared very vulnerably about lessons he learned after his first marriage ended.

Jim Turner: I don't think we wallow in the things that happen in the past. We get past those, but the things that are happening now that grieve us, right? But the things that um I mean my wife and I now um I remarried and we have 10 kids combined.

John Fuller: Yeah.

Jim Turner: So there's a lot going on in their lives that cause us to grieve, to uh rejoice, to all have all kinds of all the whole gamut of emotions which if if I was still that disconnected man that I write about, I'd go to work every day, do my thing, come home, uh provide and I'd sort of be done. I'd check out, right? And I couldn't be with my wife and kids and be in the moment so to speak with their emotions. But now I can. I can sit down with them and and talk about that and um make sure that I hear them because before they did they'd look at me and say Dad, you're you're not even hearing me, right?

Jim Daly: Well, that's interesting that there's a consistency with what you experienced. I don't know that I have felt that. I mean most of the people I know say oh you feel pretty connected if that comes up.

Jim Turner: Yeah.

Jim Daly: You know my boys would say no you feel you're connected, Dad. So I don't you know in terms of processing that I'm trying to play the every man here because of all the listeners we've got and some guys are going okay I am the disconnected guy and maybe like for me it's not it's not a perfect spot on a continuum. You may have some attributes

Jim Turner: Yes, yes.

Jim Daly: that you are connecting on, but generally particularly if your spouse is saying I don't feel connected, that's probably a time to go okay what what is happening? What's the assessment? In that regard, when it comes to that husband and wife connection and communication especially if a man's feeling like he's connecting, but the wife does not. How do you do that assessment?

Jim Turner: Well, that's the tough part is because the the the way I define the disconnected man is he's unaware that he is emotionally

Jim Daly: And that's frustrating to his wife.

Jim Turner: and relationally unavailable, unaware. So he thinks everything's great. I thought my marriage was great until it ended.

Jim Daly: Wow.

Jim Turner: Cuz I was doing everything I was supposed to do. I was so focused on doing things and that's another that's one of the points that I touched on before, but disconnected men do things. They do love. They don't feel love. And that's the big clue for me is that it didn't go past the surface for me. And you you had asked earlier and I and I didn't answer it, but um thinking about how I got there is that and and your story is pretty uh extreme I think. Maybe not extreme, but but but but pretty tough.

Um mine I grew up in a great home. My parents loved me. I knew they loved me. They never told me they loved me and they never touched me or hugged me, right?

Jim Daly: That's big.

Jim Turner: Yeah, but I knew they loved me. Uh there was never a doubt in my mind. So I grew up thinking well, you don't really need to be real touchy-feely lovey-dovey in order to know that there's love. And maybe that played into okay it didn't happen in my house. I don't need that. And so I lived without it.

Jim Daly: Or you may not even think about it. It's just what it was and how it was modeled to you and this is the way life runs.

Jim Turner: Exactly, but then when you run into someone that you marry

Jim Daly: They want more.

Jim Turner: Yeah, yeah. Who they they really want to know you and they really want to have that constant sense that they're needed, that they're loved, that they're cherished.

John Fuller: Well, Erin uh you do a lot of counseling with couples. So what do you think about in terms of kind of rough percentages for women that uh either with the husband there or separately say he is so emotionally disconnected, it's just a problem.

Dr. Erin Smalley: Mhm. Well, Greg said roughly 70% of couples are disconnected. And I would say as women are coming in either with their spouse or individually, I would say it's even higher um from my personal experience.

John Fuller: John, that 's not peer reviewed. So okay. So come on.

Dr. Erin Smalley: That's only anecdotal. So um it's but but again these are people who are coming in for help.

John Fuller: Yes, yeah.

Dr. Erin Smalley: But I know that it is very prevalent. Uh and granted there are times that men come in and say they feel like their wife is emotionally disconnected as well. So it goes both directions. However, it's important to identify as well there's a dynamic within marriage. Um typically one is the pursuer, the other is the withdrawer. And we

Dr. Greg Smalley: Take one guess that

Dr. Erin Smalley: Yeah.

Dr. Greg Smalley: which gender typically is the

Dr. Erin Smalley: The pursuer.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah.

Dr. Erin Smalley: But not always. But the large majority 65 to 70% of couples show this pattern that the wife is the pursuer, the husband is the withdrawer.

Dr. Greg Smalley: She's chasing after and the more she does the more you tend to disconnect.

Dr. Erin Smalley: We have to talk about it. We have to talk about it. But I always frame it that she's saying we have to talk about it to make it better versus he's distancing thinking that if I'm over here and it's quiet relationally at least we're at peace. There's not a big issue between us. I mean the issue is still there.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yes. Obviously, yes.

Dr. Erin Smalley: However, neither one works because the pursuer often comes with great energy and their spouse can't hear them. And if they're not talking about it at all from the withdrawer stance, nothing's going to improve either. So identifying it is important that hey I feel disconnected from you and you're saying this to your spouse. So it's on the table. Like hey so what do we do about this? I am willing to um check in daily with you at an emotional level or let's identify one night of the week that we can really connect. We can do something together.

We can talk while we do that because I desire a deeper connection. However, if you have a spouse that's like yeah I'm good. I don't feel disconnected from you. I don't know what's happening over there. You still have great influence in the relationship. So I would say start doing things like responding to the bids for connection within your relationship.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Okay, that bid for connection for the person who hasn't heard that before.

Dr. Erin Smalley: Yes, it's when your spouse does something or even says hey look at this. I this happened at work today that instead of remaining uninterested that you turn toward and you acknowledge the bid for connection. Sometimes we think that these are just these irritating moments where our spouse is just talking or asking us to look at something we really don't care about. Really what it is there's a deeper message that's being sent of hey are you going to be interested in what I'm interested in? Are you interested in me? And do you have time to turn toward and acknowledge what I am saying?

So that is one way we can positively influence our connection with our spouse.

John Fuller: Yeah. This is the kind of advice one would get by going to a Hope Restored Marriage Intensive. And my wife and I were able to go. We participated. We learned so much. It's been over six years now and I would say pretty much every day we're employing some of what you're talking about there. Not perfectly. Uh we still have struggles and we still have misunderstandings, but just to be able to slow things down, to be able to articulate hey I'm feeling, to say hey can we sit down and talk, to schedule some time. That has made a a huge difference in our relationship.

And I'm so glad for your roles in the Hope Restored Marriage Intensives. I mean before that was part of Focus on the Family. There you were uh engaged helping couples. And I just want to reach out to those who are joining us today and maybe are thinking what can I do? Well, there are a lot of resources. We've got tons of resources on our marriage page, but maybe it's time for you to get away so you can really isolate some of the things that are contributing to your relationship and get connected again even if your spouse isn't interested right now.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Hope Restored Marriage Intensives are going to give you an opportunity to see that unpacked and kind of presented as an opportunity to achieve greater oneness. Um so learn more about Hope Restored when you give us a call or we've got lots of information online. And uh just for general growth, especially if you're a husband and you feel like oh I'm a little disconnected. I understood what Jim Turner was talking about there. Uh get Jim's book The Disconnected Man, which also offers help to women to better understand how that man's operating system is wired and uh it'll give men the appropriate challenges I think to lean in emotionally.

Uh we've got the book here and uh a link in the show notes will take you to the page where you can donate to get it. Next time we'll hear from Dave and Ann Wilson share how their marriage was strengthened after she decided to become Dave's biggest cheerleader. For now on behalf of Dr. Greg and Dr. Erin Smalley, I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.