Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

Guest (Male): If you are a pastor wanting to save and strengthen marriages in your congregation, we've got a great tool for you. Marriage 911 by Focus on the Family trains laypeople to mentor couples who may be on the verge of divorce or who want to strengthen what they already have.

The kit includes two leader guides, four workbooks, and all the training necessary to meet with and mentor men and women who need help. Visit marriage911.com. That’s marriage the numbers 911.com.

John Fuller: Children are a blessing and the truth is they're also a major disruptor to life. I'm John Fuller, joined by Dr. Greg and Dr. Erin Smalley. Congratulations again. We made that announcement last episode. You lead our marriage team and Greg, is it easier or harder to work together as a team when children are involved?

Greg Smalley: When Erin and I first became parents, there was so much that we didn't know and understand that was going to impact our teamwork and how our unity went, our oneness. I think looking back, what I wish I would have had someone say to us is be intentional to sit down and talk about roles and responsibilities explicitly.

Talk about who's going to be doing what. That can change week to week, that can change month to month. The point is we didn't really talk about that. We just started doing everything and it's easy to fall into roles and responsibilities maybe that you saw growing up in your family or that you see in the culture. Whatever those are, that doesn't mean that's what you guys need or want.

Talk about those things. Who's getting up for late-night feedings? Who's changing diapers? All those kinds of things, just talk it through. I'm sure you could go online and find a whole list of what are some of these important decisions we need to make and decide who's going to do what. So I wish we had done that and then you evaluate that.

The moment it starts becoming overwhelming for one person, talk about it. The answer can never be, "No, we talked about that. You agreed." No, if it feels like a loss to your spouse, your team is losing. So I wish we had done that. What I love that we did is that we fiercely protected our couple time in the midst of just learning to be parents.

From the get-go, we have told our kids that Mom and my marriage is God first, we are second, you are third. You will require more time and we get that. But don't you ever for a moment forget who is my top priority. That's important to let our kids know that. That's okay.

They should know that. They are designed to leave your home someday, not your spouse. I want to make sure that this relationship between us is strong and that means you have to fiercely fight for those moments. Even in those new seasons of becoming a brand new parent, you may have just a fraction of time to connect. Do that, fight for that.

John Fuller: Be proactive and intentional. Well, that's good and I can appreciate that. We're going to turn now to a conversation that Jim Daly had with Pat and Ruth Schwenk, who discussed what it was like in the early days when kids came along.

Jim Daly: Describe earlier years of parenting and what's going on there and the chaos of it.

Ruth Schwenk: It was. My kids are getting a little bit older so our youngest is eight now. But it's still crazy, it's just a different season. When they were little, I felt like I was just trying to get through the day and then Pat comes home from work and he wants dinner on the table and I can't even. I'm just really tired, I just need a nap. So I think it is a wake-up call during those years that we really have to fight for our marriage.

Jim Daly: How long do those years last?

Ruth Schwenk: Actually, I'll tell you what. I feel like I can finally take a big deep breath. My youngest is eight and we're busy in a different way. They have different activities, they're getting older, a little more self-sufficient. And I can get sleep at night and honestly, that can make a big difference.

Jim Daly: There's the deepest spiritual truth you've ever stumbled across. Be well-rested. Patrick, you were actually into watching a football game, which I could so relate to, on one Saturday, Michigan. I don't know why you'd want to waste your time on that but watching a college football game. What took place? How did the Lord get a hold of your heart with that?

Pat Schwenk: It was a scary moment. I was actually preparing to watch a Michigan game that was coming on. Ruth was actually running to the store, I think she was going to run to the grocery store. I was given the assignment, and I mean that in the kindest way, I was given the assignment, the responsibility of mowing the yard while she was gone.

At the time, we just had two kids, Tyler and Bella. I don't remember how old they were but they weren't terribly old. I gave them very good instructions to stay in their room, gave them Legos to play with and I gave some dolls for Bella to play with and to play dress-up.

It was only going to take me about a half-hour to do the yard. So I went out and I was scurrying to get the yard mowed before Ruth got home before kickoff. I was almost done, I was on the last leg and just a block away we had these railroad tracks that the road came over.

I remember turning to the left and I could see Ruth just coming up over the railroad tracks and getting ready to turn right into our street. As I continued turning left, I also saw Bella, our youngest at the time, walking down the sidewalk carrying a large yellow umbrella.

The problem was is that she was supposed to be inside playing dress-up but she decided to dress down and I saw her walking down the sidewalk with a big yellow umbrella completely unclothed.

Jim Daly: This is every mother's fear and you're killing us, Pat. We're trusting you to watch the kids for a bit. The father's union wants to talk to you.

Pat Schwenk: I didn't know whether Ruth was going to kick me out of the house first or I was going to get arrested. But that's the moment I knew that as much as we loved being parents and what a gift our kids were, this was hard stuff. This was a challenge.

Kids are unpredictable and they really do disrupt in many ways that marriage relationship that they do join us in the journey of marriage and we have to work to keep them from coming between us in the journey of marriage.

Jim Daly: Just a little tip: it's playpen, either right side up if they're young, upside down if they're older. Just telling you, with a rock on it maybe if necessary. So Ruth, as the mom coming home and seeing this, I'm not going to let this story go. What was your angelic response to Pat?

Ruth Schwenk: I think it was like, "What are you doing? I can't even go to the grocery store and everything falls apart?" Every dad has heard this before.

Jim Daly: Can't you keep it together? So you got through it.

Ruth Schwenk: Yes, we did. We got through it but I just love that picture of marriage and young kids and how everything can kind of fall out around you.

John Fuller: Erin, we've touched on this in previous episodes as we've talked this month about teamwork. But when the kids are young, it seems like that's when communication is really stressed and when corporate ladders are being climbed, so to speak.

You're trying to really improve your position in life. You've got these children and they're really demanding a lot of time and energy and as Greg was saying earlier, we tend to push things off to the side. How can we figure out, let's say, a flashpoint about the kids? How can we show up and agree in ways that are meaningful when there's just so much stress going on?

Erin Smalley: It is such a stressful, chaotic season when you have young kids. It just is. And then as they age, there's different seasons of stress. But it's returning to, like we're talking about the theme this month, we're a team and how do we tackle this together? How do we stay on the same page?

Often times we have good intentions but we're just not talking about what's our goal with this specific child. Because as we know, if you have more than one, typically there's different personalities and different things they need from you as a parent. So really sitting and talking about what do we each want for our kids, for each kid individually, which takes time and energy to communicate.

Often times the difficulties come when someone holds a value that's inside that they're not expressing. It's really important to me for us to tuck our kids in at night and pray over them. And the other person is like, "Yeah, not my top priority." Well, they're going to bump up against each other then because this is really important to one and the other might be going, "Making sure they're fed well with healthy nutrition is my top priority."

So it's talking about that and allowing room for both, creating a place that spouses can come together and have that safe conversation.

John Fuller: This relates to a previous episode we had not too long ago about feeling safety in the relationship. You've got to feel like my voice is being heard. Go for the win-win as Greg was saying earlier and seek to keep things in perspective. At the moment, my child's sports participation might be the biggest thing I can think of but it's not necessarily my spouse's biggest thing.

Greg Smalley: I would say even thinking about it from that paradigm of safety, what I think is so important in creating safety within our parenting is not figuring out the places that we agree and that we think alike and we're trying to do the same thing around. It's actually talking through what do we do when we disagree?

When maybe Erin's handling a situation that I'm thinking, "I don't think that's the best way." It's actually having that conversation like we will disagree. You will not like something that I'm doing as a dad. I will probably, as hard to imagine, I wouldn't be happy with something you're doing as a mom.

But those are going to happen. Let's talk about how will we talk about that. What will we not do? Let's not say that in front of the kids. But to actually talk about when we disagree, how do we want to approach that? Because again within marriage, when you're talking about teamwork and unity, you have to live by the motto that we both matter.

Both people have a say-so. She is our kid's mother. I'm their father. We both matter. And even though we would do it very differently at times, that doesn't take away from who Erin is or who I am. Let's just make it safe and okay that we can talk about those times where we don't see eye to eye.

John Fuller: I appreciate that so much. And we've got a podcast for you to check out if you've not listened to Practice Makes Parent, hosted by Danny Huerta and Rebecca St. James. Give it a listen. It's really good and offers encouragement to you on a regular basis. Rebecca's living the dream, she's got the kids in the home. Danny's got the perspective of, "We've launched kids."

Greg Smalley: And Danny is like a big kid. So that's what's fun about it anyway. He does have an adventurous spirit, doesn't he?

John Fuller: So it's a great show produced by Focus on the Family. Check it out and if you're able to, make a donation to this show and this ministry by either a monthly pledge or one-time gift. And we'll say thanks by sending a copy of the book by Pat and Ruth Schwenk. It's called For Better or for Kids and it really is a wonderful resource for you to keep perspective in mind as you balance kids and marriage.

Next time, Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory talk about what to do when your temperament is different than your spouse, which probably describes 90% of the people out there. Especially us. Learn how to be together as a team next time. For now, I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.

Guest (Male): Pastors, if you're struggling to help couples in your church whose marriage is in trouble, we can help. Marriage 911 by Focus on the Family trains laypeople to mentor married couples. Each kit includes two training guides, four workbooks, and all the training necessary to meet with couples who need help. Go to marriage911.com. That’s marriage the numbers 911.com.