Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

Guest (Male): Do you ever feel like your family spends so much time on screens that they’re turning into zombies? Well, you’re not the only one, and you can fight back by doing a screen fast. Get a free guide from Plugged In, the tech experts at Focus on the Family.

You’ll get tips on how to do a week-long screen fast for kids of all ages, plus tips for you as a parent. Get the guide at pluggedin.com/screenfast. That’s pluggedin.com/screenfast.

John Fuller: Well, the midlife years are often times a moment for a couple to kind of reset. Many times it’s empty nest years and it’s a career years, and there’s just so much going on and it can be a beautiful time of life together.

It can also be a bit of a challenge, and we’ll talk about that today on the show. I’m John Fuller, joined by Greg and Erin Smalley, who lead our marriage team. You both are in your 50s. You have almost an empty nest. I mean, in some ways it’s kind of practically an empty nest, not quite. But how would you characterize this season compared to the 20s and 30s?

Greg Smalley: Yeah, I love thinking about that because when I look back on who I was in my 20s—and I think we all go through this—I mean, I really was trying to figure out who I was, what am I doing, so working on my identity. I’m trying to figure out what was my job career going to look like. Do I have what it takes to be successful? And so there was probably a lot of performance kind of issues when I think back into my 20s versus now.

It’s not that that stuff doesn’t matter, but I think I’m much more comfortable in who I am and what I’m doing, and so it’s probably more about being. Just being present, just being grateful, just chilling out together. I’m just much more aware of feeling more settled, kind of like, "Okay, I know who I am, I know who she is, I know who we are." Not that we don’t quit learning, but there is a big difference there.

I think I also have such a perspective now, 34 years into our marriage, of just the courage that it took to begin the journey together. I mean, this is a big deal. I don’t think I really understood that until later, that that’s a big thing. I mean, to have someone agree to journey with you for the rest of your life through all the ups and downs and good and bad and just all of that. I mean, that’s a big deal.

If you just sit and think about it, wow, the courage that it would have taken for Erin to go, "Hey, you’re a 20-year-old. There’s not a lot that I know about you. You’re still figuring out. I’m going to go ahead and choose you and I’m going to walk this out with you for the rest of my life." I mean, that’s a big, big, big deal. So I think I’m much more aware of that, which means I take our marriage and our connection, our attachment, our just our life together, I think more seriously than I probably would have back then. So those are some of the things that stand out to me.

John Fuller: I appreciate that.

Erin Smalley: And I would say often what I hear about are the things that didn’t transpire that you had hoped for in these middle years. Often grief sets in. And culturally, as well as individually, often we don’t acknowledge this kind of grief, that there are dreams that didn’t happen. For example, not having that third child that didn’t happen, and then grief sets in, and it’s okay to acknowledge that and to let your heart express the emotion that’s tied to that.

Greg Smalley: So what I hear you saying is you wish we had more children? Is that what I’m hearing? You’re grieving that?

Erin Smalley: No, because we had four, so that was plenty. Your quiver was full and is.

Greg Smalley: That is full as the fuller? No.

John Fuller: Everybody’s quiver is full enough. Ours was full.

Yeah, I appreciate that because I think there are these kind of naive assumptions about what it is going to be. And then in your middle years, you find out, "Oh, this is what it is." And there’s somewhere along in those, in that season, in those years, you realize, "Oh, and that is never going to happen."

So I appreciate you articulating that. And we’re going to turn now to a conversation with two very wise people. They’re so winsome: Bill and Pam Farrell. And they spoke with Focus president Jim Daly about how these middle years can be your best years.

Jim Daly: Why do we call it the midlife crisis? I don’t feel like we’ve hit a crisis yet. Is it coming? Is it around the corner?

Pam Farrell: I know. That is one of Bill’s pet peeves. He’s like, "It doesn’t have to be a crisis."

Bill Farrell: Oh, that’s okay, so we’re in agreement on that. Oh yeah, midlife crisis markets well. If you say, "Hey, today we’re going to talk about how to do normal life," everybody goes, "Is there something else on?" But if you talk about the crisis, you talk about the difficulty, you talk about the disaster that’s coming, everybody clues in.

Pam Farrell: We do want to honor our mentor, Jim Conway, who coined the term "midlife crisis" and it didn’t even exist really before that. So it was important to talk about. And if you don’t know it’s coming, it can become a crisis.

Jim Daly: Okay, let me ask you this question. You know, when you look at husbands, how many of them see it as a crisis? And when you look at wives, how many of them see it as a crisis as a rough percentage?

Pam Farrell: Yeah, I would say about half of them because, like Bill said, if you know that it’s coming, then you invest well and you make smart decisions and it doesn’t have to be a crisis. But most people just fly through life and don’t really think through life or prepare well. If they’re not listening to Focus on the Family, they might not be ready. That’s what I’m saying.

Bill Farrell: And everybody I know evaluates life at midlife. So you will evaluate. If you know it’s coming and you’re used to evaluating your life, it’s okay. If you’re not used to it, you can throw your whole family topsy-turvy and then everybody’s calling it a crisis.

Jim Daly: Do these general stereotypes still exist like men having their midlife crisis getting the Corvette and the medallion, or is that like an old '70s thing? And then women, the lack of their sense of identity with raising the kids and they’re now adults and what do I do? Is that too general or do those things still apply?

Pam Farrell: They still apply and more.

Jim Daly: I’m not getting the medallion. I’m not doing it.

Pam Farrell: I know, I know. That’s the thing is guys start unbuttoning their shirt and you’re like, "Oh, please button that back up." It’s so bad. They try to be young again and go hang out with the youth group to play volleyball and drive a red Corvette with the top down.

Jim Daly: Okay, so that’s Pam’s opinion of men. How about you for the ladies?

Pam Farrell: But nowadays women can go through the same kind of thing, and it’s sometimes connected to their kids all leaving home and like, "Who am I now that our kids are gone?" The whole empty nest thing. But a lot of times it’s also evaluating your marriage. Like, "Oh wow, everybody’s leaving. Do I want to be with that person the rest of my 25, 35, 45 more years?"

Jim Daly: We’re going to talk about that in a minute with graying of divorce and those kinds of things that are occurring. But when you think of a crisis, you think of a breaking point potentially. A crisis seems to imply that.

So you guys have been doing this for years in terms of marriage ministry and talking to literally probably thousands if not tens of thousands of couples. So why does this transition present this either make it or break it marriage situation? And have you seen that happen? Like people say, "Okay, we’re done. Kids are out."

Bill Farrell: Yeah, and I think it’s important when we talk about it that we separate out a woman’s midlife and a man’s midlife because they happen at different times. And we all know about the man’s midlife crisis because it’s gotten lots of attention. We don’t talk much about the woman’s struggle.

Pam Farrell: And there’s actually two for the women. The first midlife evaluation is what I call it. It happens between 28 and 35ish usually.

Jim Daly: Well, that seems young.

Pam Farrell: It is really, yeah. And that’s why it’s not really a midlife. What it does is it surprises women and so that’s why it can become a crisis.

Jim Daly: What’s that sound like?

Pam Farrell: What it sounds like is, "Okay, why am I on the face of this earth? Like is it just to change diapers and do dishes and just to have a paycheck and does anybody really appreciate me?" It sounds like a little bit of an attitude, sorry.

It is kind of an evaluation of what is meaningful to me and why am I on the face of this earth? And if a woman seeks God during that stage, it is a wonderful growth opportunity. She’s like, "You know, God put me here, these are the gifts He gave me, this is how He wants me to use them. Woo-hoo!" And it’s all good.

Jim Daly: Pam, let me ask you this. It’s true for all of us: when we’re confronted with biblical truth, sometimes we don’t like it. And we are selfish people and the Lord’s going, "Please come this way, walk this way with me, it’d be so much easier," and we ignore it. And we don’t accept it, we don’t accept that reflection in our own lives about where we’re at in our attitude like you just described. How do you just say, "Okay, I’ll relent, I’ll give in, Lord, I’ll do it your way"?

Pam Farrell: Yeah, sometimes it’s longer and it’s more of a wrestling match. But sometimes it’s shorter because it seems like an invitation from the bridegroom to the bride. Like, "You know, here I have this dance for you, I have this wonderful ministry I want you to do. You’re so valuable." And it’s all good.

John Fuller: Well, so there’s some good stuff from Pam and Bill. They always have such great energy and insight. And Erin, in your counseling practice, I’m assuming that a fair number of people in those middle years come into your practice because they need help. It’s just a hard season for some. What are some of the essentials that we need to know as we hit our 50s, say, and here we are together? Let’s make the most of it.

Erin Smalley: Yeah, I think it’s important for a couple to have a vision of what they are wanting in this season because it is a different season. Often empty nesting is happening or you’re slowing down a little bit, possibly. So it’s really talking about what do we want this to look like?

How often are we going on dates? What do our conversations look like in the evenings? Are we sitting in front of the TV every night? Are we playing pickleball so many times a week? And are we going for walks and are we double dating and traveling? What do we want it to look like?

An important conversation to have, but part of that is remembering the friendship that you had when you first met. And what are the things we used to do? What are the things that drew us toward each other and really prioritize building that friendship again, which I know some people are like, "This is not just a friendship, this is a marriage and an intimate relationship." Yes, but the friendship is the baseline of the relationship.

So going back to what drew us towards each other and how do we continue to build that friendship? But it’s going to take some honest conversation and really even looking back at what are those unmet expectations that maybe got buried amidst raising kids and taking care of aging parents and working full-time, whatever it was that took the attention. What about those expectations and the sadness that something didn’t happen or something isn’t working relationally?

John Fuller: Having those honest conversations is important. I imagine—and I’m going to segue to something that I know you’re passionate about here, Greg—I imagine it’s helpful to have an older couple with you to kind of guide you through this. You’ve got a program that you’ve developed called Marriage Champions. Tell us about that.

Greg Smalley: Yeah, this is really helping a couple go, "Boy, how do we want to use our marriage to benefit others?" Like God places callings deep within us as individuals. Erin has passions, I have passions, but what about us? We’ve got this marriage, this oneness. That’s a powerful thing.

What are we doing to bless others? How are we using our marriage to love God and to love others? And Marriage Champions simply is going, "Here a bunch of ideas that you guys can do together." So depending on the season that you’re in, maybe you don’t have a lot of time and so one idea would be, well, what if we identified another couple, like for Erin and I, we could choose John and Dina and just start praying for them?

John Fuller: We need it.

Greg Smalley: Right. We could just pray for this couple. They don’t even necessarily even have to know that we’re doing this, but we’re doing that together. There might be a couple with some small kids who are exhausted and it’s expensive to get babysitters. So maybe we go over and say, "Hey, can we watch your kids while you guys go out and have a date night?"

All the way to, "Boy, let’s use one of the Focus on the Family marriage curriculums and small group series and lead one of those groups together." We have a program called Marriage 911. This is a lay couple. Boy, we can get trained to actually use this program to help couples who are in crisis. So there’s all kinds of ways to invest in another couple. It’s just helping to give that couple maybe a new vision of how we will use our marriage to bless others.

John Fuller: I appreciate that so much and you can learn more about Marriage Champions on our website. We have a link in the show notes. For follow-up on some of what Bill and Pam have addressed about marriage and different seasons, check out their book *The 10 Best Decisions a Couple Can Make*. This is for togetherness, this is for vision, this is for moving along as a couple, and the book is really, really helpful. We’ve got it here at the ministry. Make a donation of any amount and we’ll send it to you.

Finally, we’ve created an online radio station for you that I think you’ll enjoy. It features great Christian music and clips from Focus podcasts like this one featuring Greg and Erin and more just to encourage you and to keep your mind centered on Christ. It’s called Focus Live and it’s available on the Godcaster app and the link is in the notes.

Next time Ron Deal will offer hope to couples who are on a second or even a third marriage. It’s hard, it’s awkward, and it’s also an opportunity, and Ron will bring some great insights. For now, on behalf of Greg and Erin and the entire team, thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.

Guest (Male): Do you ever feel like your family spends so much time on screens that they’re turning into zombies? Well, you’re not the only one, and you can fight back by doing a screen fast. Get a free guide from Plugged In, the tech experts at Focus on the Family. You’ll get tips on how to do a week-long screen fast for kids of all ages, plus tips for you as a parent. Get the guide at pluggedin.com/screenfast. That’s pluggedin.com/screenfast.