Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

John Fuller: It’s hard to believe, but this is episode 2,000 of this podcast. Can you believe that?

Greg Smalley: Aaron and I have been doing this since we were teenagers, apparently.

John Fuller: And now you're empty nesters. How did that go?

Greg Smalley: Thank you for your leadership on this and all the help that you've given me personally. I feel like we've done 2,000 shows over the years, and a lot of it has been for me. I hope our listeners feel like the connection has been real with you all because you are so humble and transparent. You lead with examples, like you did a couple of episodes ago.

Aaron Smalley: We said we'd fix this thing, but we didn't. We're going to try again.

John Fuller: This is the fun that we have, and I'm so glad. I want to encourage you as a viewer or listener to leave a comment and make some fun happen here for us. Bless us by telling us how these podcasts have helped you.

Greg, there are three categories that you've observed in couples: they're either happy, somewhat happy, or not happy at all. On the happiness scale, talk about that and what your observations are.

Greg Smalley: One of the longest-running, most rigorous studies done around marriage is called the General Social Survey, the GSS. One of the things they've found over all these years of tracking this is a 70/30 split.

70% of the people will say that they very much feel or pretty much feel happiness within their marriage. 30% say not so much. When you think about how someone is doing within their marriage, that's a pretty accurate split. About 70% are healthy, and about 30% are pretty unhealthy. That is how you could look at marital health, marital satisfaction, or happiness within a relationship.

Aaron Smalley: I used the archived data from that study for my dissertation. Whenever I hear the question, "Are couples happy?" I think about how happiness is an individual state. It is more about marital satisfaction, which is an individual experience, versus marital health, which is a shared experience.

What I love that Focus did is they looked at the shared experience. They asked, "How are we doing?" versus "How am I doing?" Often when people say they are happy in their marriage, you have to wonder what happens when they are not happy.

People will often say they are not happy in their marriage and therefore they are going to leave, disconnect, or act out. It really is about looking at marital satisfaction versus marital health.

John Fuller: That's a good distinction. We're going to hear more research terminology and findings as Jim Daly spoke with Shaunti Feldhahn.

Jim Daly: Is a happy marriage really the goal for us as Christians?

Shaunti Feldhahn: It’s so easy for us to say our goal shouldn't be to be happy; it should be to be holy, as Gary Thomas says in his book. I once had a pastor I really respected who had done tons of marriage therapy. He said the problem with that is we get to the idea that they are mutually exclusive.

He has couples come to him all the time who think they have two choices: break up and be happy, or stay together and be miserable. There is a third door: stay together and be happy.

Jim Daly: Why don't we talk about that more often?

Shaunti Feldhahn: In our culture, we have this knee-jerk reaction against the idea that if I'm not happy, I'm out of here. People think it shouldn't be about that. The problem is we've gotten, especially in the Christian community, into this idea of saying marriage is tough and hard, and we'll carry the burden.

For some marriages and for some seasons, it is tough and hard. That's never an excuse to give up or to leave. But as I started doing this research, I realized it is easy to focus on our problems to try to fix them. We focus only on the problems and what's getting in the way.

Jim Daly: As a man, I am relating to what you're saying because we are problem solvers. You have that analytical mind. Do most women resonate with that?

Shaunti Feldhahn: They absolutely do. If I want to have a happy marriage, who do I look to? If I want to be more like Jesus, do I study the Pharisees or do I study Jesus? I study the one I'm looking to as the role model. Let's look at what the happy marriages have to teach us, celebrate that, and say it's possible.

Jim Daly: That leads to a great next question. What was your number one finding when you did the research for the book?

Shaunti Feldhahn: The biggest prerequisite is that you have to believe the best of your spouse's intentions when you're hurt.

Jim Daly: What does that look like practically? To be vulnerable, there are times I don't always have that thought. It seems more natural to have not-so-good thoughts and not think the best of your spouse's intentions. For example, "Why did she leave that in the walkway toward the driveway?" I might think she knew I'd trip over it and break my back. I am not falling at that moment thinking she intended it for my good.

Shaunti Feldhahn: It was fascinating talking to the really happy couples. I was researching the happiest couples to try to find out what they were doing differently than everyone else.

I did a huge research project with a big nationally representative survey. I found that when these really happy couples were hurt—and everybody gets hurt, just because you have a happy marriage doesn't mean it's perfect—the natural human tendency for an average couple is to think, "He knew how that would make me feel and he said it anyway."

It's often subconscious. You don't realize that what you're feeling is that he doesn't care. I noticed a completely different trend with the happy couples. They would say to themselves, "That hurt, but I know he cares about me. I know he loves me, so he must not have known how that would make me feel or he wouldn't have said it." It was a totally different way of looking at it.

Jim Daly: I don't think happy or average couples go out of their way to hurt. They may just speak without thinking. Do you think that is a cop-out?

Shaunti Feldhahn: I think you're right on. Statistically, in almost 100% of cases on my survey, even in the most struggling marriages, everybody really cares about their spouse. But if you want to be happy, you have to let yourself believe it.

John Fuller: There's an assumption I have about my spouse which is a predictor of how healthy we are. There are times when I'll say something to Dina and she will bristle. I'll find out I've triggered something that goes way back. Evidently, I've been doing this our whole married lives. She assumes I'm being this or that. There are expectations and assumptions we make, but if I assume the better of my spouse, we're probably happier.

Aaron Smalley: Probably more connected because the concern would be if I'm seeing everything Greg does through a negative lens, I develop negative beliefs. Then I see everything he does through that lens and he has no chance. The alternate would be that I begin to develop the benefit of the doubt towards him. Something he just did is out of character, and I’m wondering what in the world is going on with him versus me.

Greg Smalley: I want to be clear here. I trigger Dina in an instance; it’s not all the time. She’s very trusting.

Aaron Smalley: I don’t know. She said, "We’ve watched you." She’s said other things to us, hasn't she, Greg?

Greg Smalley: I’m open to training. That is why we’re here. After 2,000 episodes, I’m still failing.

Aaron Smalley: We haven't released you from your hosting duties.

Greg Smalley: How does a couple get to that point?

Aaron Smalley: It’s becoming aware because I’ve been there. There are times that I’m discouraged or feeling disconnected and high stress in my own life or in our home. I’ll begin thinking, "He’s doing that thing again."

If I catch myself and recognize that I’m really seeing him through a negative lens versus stepping back and asking what might be going on for him, it helps. I know he’s stressed. It doesn't excuse poor behavior, but it allows me to see it through a different lens. Most behavior in marriage is unintentional, though we often see it as intentional.

Greg Smalley: That’s an interesting observation.

Aaron Smalley: However, I want to say this doesn't excuse poor behavior and it doesn't mean we don't address it. It means that we have control of what we're seeing. I can see that Greg is struggling and I wonder what is getting triggered underneath the waterline, but I still can address the behavior.

John Fuller: This is an invitation to really step into and embrace my spouse, not point fingers and say, "Here's how you can improve." If I get home as I did last night and Dina seems a little off, she's had a debilitating headache for the last couple of days. That colors everything for her. I feel so badly for her. How can I possibly start saying, "You didn't do this," or "You said this"?

Aaron Smalley: "What'd you do all day long, Dina?"

John Fuller: The invitation is to ask, "What's going on?" and not say, "There they are again, judging me."

We want to encourage you to stop, slow down, and pursue happiness as a couple. Check your expectations and your assumptions. A starting point to assess where you're at as a couple is to take our free marriage assessment. It will take 10 or 15 minutes of your time and is revealing in terms of communication and satisfaction. It's going to be great for you to talk about this as a couple. The link for our free marriage assessment is in the show notes.

If you need to talk to someone about what's going on, if you've identified some patterns from our short conversation, reach out and talk to one of our counselors. We have caring Christian counselors, and it would be an honor for them to give you a call, listen to what's going on, and offer some insight and next steps. Our donor community makes it possible for our counselors to offer that free over-the-phone consultation.

Join that donor community and make a contribution of any amount to the work of Focus on the Family. Support this show and all that Focus on the Family is doing to help couples and marriages thrive. We will say thanks for being a part of the team by sending Shaunti Feldhahn's excellent book, *Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages*. The starting point is the show notes.

Thanks for joining us today for the show. Next time we’ll hear from Josh and Christi Straub. He shared how he learned to listen to Christi at a heart level. For now, on behalf of Greg and Aaron and the entire team, I’m John Fuller. Thanks for joining us for the *Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast*.