Focus on the Family Strengthening Marriage Podcast

Guest (Female): Your marriage can be healed. A Hope Restored marriage intensive from Focus on the Family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days.

Guest (Male): We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done.

Guest (Female): What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.

Announcer: Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com.

John Fuller: Well, it may be that you're just a few years into your marriage relationship, wondering, "Did I make the right move? Am I actually married to the person I dated? What's going on?" I'm John Fuller, and if you feel like you've gotten off track or drifted a bit in your relationship, I'm so glad you've joined us.

We've got Greg and Erin here in the studio. Greg, the enemy wants to destroy our relationship. There is a spiritual battle with Satan against us, and he wants us to think it's all their fault or I'm the only one that sees this. There are too many couples that are just facing off and saying it's not worth it. What are you seeing?

Greg Smalley: From a research standpoint, about 25 percent—so about a quarter—of the couples are doing just what you're describing, John. They're facing off and they've become dissatisfied. As a matter of fact, Focus just released a really cool study—and we'll put the link to this study in the show notes—called "Marriage Health in America."

It's a fantastic study, but when you look at things like that, a quarter of the couples are really frustrated and feel disconnected. They feel like they don't have the relationship they really are looking for. But then add in that every single couple who gets married is going to experience a decrease in the way they feel about their relationship.

We call that the honeymoon period. We know research is very clear that about 18 months to 24 months is when that dissipates for most couples. From there, it's learning how we go from what was happening when we were dating—all this fun exploration of who you are and your inner life and what we would dream together—to when the day-to-day life takes over and just that routine. How do we maintain that? That becomes the real key.

John Fuller: We're going to hear a little bit more about that from Focus on the Family President Jim Daly. On his show, he talked with Jay Payleitner, and they discussed some of the things you can do if there's drift going on in your marriage.

Jim Daly: Let's talk about it. You have a very positive view of marriage, but you noted in your book that husbands and wives can begin to drift apart after a few years of marriage. In fact, you've talked to men who are angry and bitter about that kind of drift. What's going on in their marriages when they feel that drift? What's happening?

Jay Payleitner: My original personal ministry has always been to dads. Working with the National Center for Fathering and having five kids of my own, I would have guys come up to me who are hurting. It wasn't their relationship with their kids, although that was their motivation for coming to the event.

They would say, "Jay, my marriage isn't what I need it to be, so I need to work on that." They would say, "I don't know what happened to the girl I married." I just want to grab them by the lapels and say, "You know what? That girl you married is asking the same question."

She's sharing your bed, she's sharing your kitchen, and she's in your home. She's saying, "Where did that boy go?" Of course, women want a knight in shining armor—a big, strong guy—but they also need that boy they married sometimes, and we get too far away from that.

Jim Daly: It may just be relationship, too. Women are strongly motivated toward relationship. Men can become loners. We can isolate ourselves and kind of drift away. To get back to that point, though, what is causing that drift in a marriage? Do kids cause the drift?

Jay Payleitner: No, I think it's the fact that we just take things for granted. We need to be more intentional about being involved in the family, in the life of our kids, and in what our bride needs. It occurs to me that I could start an argument with my wife, Rita, every time I walk in the room.

I could say things like, "Hey, did you know they opened a women's fitness center down the road?" Why do we say things like that? It doesn't sound like it's going to end well. I've said these things: "Rita, when did your mom's hair start going gray?" I said it because it was a curiosity thing and I noticed a little flip of gray hair.

Here's one that you guys who have been married a long time will get: "You know those mugs you bought? They don't fit in the dishwasher." Women totally understand that because it's like a guy saying, "Sweetheart, you're dumb for buying those mugs."

But here's the point: no one knows our wives like we do. Jim, nobody knows Jean like you do. John, no one knows Dina like you do. One of the chapters in the book starts with a list of things that my wife, Rita, likes, things like fireworks, parades, babies, TV commercials with babies, scones, fresh flowers, fresh snow, frozen Cokes, drinking straws, and craft magazines.

These aren't expensive things, and you guys could make a list for your own wives. I pledge before everyone listening to Focus on the Family that I'm going to make sure that Rita has some of these things every week for the rest of my life. There's an intentionality about that, and these aren't expensive things.

John Fuller: You were hinting at the fact that routine gets in the way of me expressing as a husband to my wife how much I love her. It really is true that when kids come or when you're working along, it's pretty easy to take each other for granted. You just do life together in your own separate ways.

Jim Daly: It becomes a business. I appreciate what Jay is saying, and that is that I do know Dina better than anybody else. I just need to take some simple steps toward meeting her where she's at to say, "Hey, babe, I love you."

Jay Payleitner: Well, the reason for that, you could finish this sentence: "If I give her what she likes, she will..." How would most guys answer that? If I give her what she likes, most guys would say, "She'll give me what I like."

That can't be our motivation. Our motivation has to be: if I give her what she likes, it gives me joy as well. It goes back to Genesis. "The two shall become one." We leave and we cleave. If I give her what she likes—even the little things that seem inconsequential—it gives her joy as well.

Guys, if this doesn't make sense, get out a yellow pad or open up a new Word document and make that literal list of little things that your wife likes. You go, "Oh, I can do this."

John Fuller: Erin, I hear Jay and I think it's great that we men are intentional and we're seeking out carefully to serve our wives. There are times when a man I know doesn't do that so well, even like last night, we had some heated words. Help my friend sitting across the table because that happens in our house as well.

Erin Smalley: Often times, we become aware of things that we've said that have caused harm or inflicted pain to our spouse because they come to us and tell us. I frequently will offer feedback, and often when we hear feedback about something we've done or what we've said, there's a propensity to defend ourselves or try to explain.

"I didn't mean that," or "That's not what I said. I said it like this," or "You heard me wrong. This is your issue." The opportunity there is to just listen and care about what your spouse is saying and specifically, what are they feeling? If they're not offering a feeling, ask them, "What did you feel as a result of this?"

If you can do that without defending yourself or trying to over-explain, your spouse's heart begins to relax. Then you can actually get somewhere. As you hear the impact of your words and the impact of what you did, then you're understanding how it did land with your spouse, and then you can own that.

Viewing it through the lens of an opportunity for a repair is a game changer because it's not casting blame or pointing fingers. It is really saying, "This is what I did and this is how it impacted you. That matters to me, and will you forgive me?"

Greg Smalley: That's such a beautiful example of when God says in His word that He opposes the proud. So will our spouse. I like that you're really casting a vision for humility. How do I listen? How do I zone in on the feelings? What do I need to own? All that's a humble posture, and He gives His grace to the humble. My experience is when beyond the defending or rationalizing or explaining whatever I did, when I humble myself to really listen, then you extend me a great deal of grace.

Erin Smalley: Then it's following up with, "What would help you to feel safer with me right now as we proceed forward?" I hear this all day long every day: "I like hearing the words, but I need to see change." So, follow it up with changed behavior.

Don't repeat the same patterns over and over again because the words and the changed behavior are going to help your spouse's heart to feel safe. Trust isn't something that's rebuilt once and for all in a single moment. It's something that is done over a period of time, and it's displaying changed behavior after changed behavior, as well as that emotional connection that can come.

John Fuller: Dina, we hope that this provides the connection you long for. Give a little grace, my dear. I'm coming around. After 40-plus years, I'm getting there. I hope that's encouraging to you. If you're younger in your relationship, stuff happens. We've been through a lot of different things and it's a stressful situation right now.

We've been married 41 going on 42 years, and we still can't do it perfectly, and you probably won't either. That's why we're here at Focus on the Family. That's why this podcast exists: to help you be as strong as you can in the relationship.

Jay Payleitner has written a book called *52 Things Wives Need from Their Husbands*, and this posture of humility and some of the other things we've talked about are addressed. There are so many other practical ideas in this book. It's a great book for you, especially as a husband, to reset and recast a vision of serving your wife and being safe for her.

Get a copy of the book when you donate to us here at the ministry. Support this show with a one-time gift or monthly gift of any amount. We'll send the book to you, and the details are in the show notes.

Also, we have a free marriage assessment. We mention this often because it's free and it's great. A million-plus people have taken this. It's going to give you insight into your relationship and about you personally—what you can do to show up better for your spouse. Take the free marriage assessment when you click the link in the show notes.

Next time, Ted Cunningham will share some reasons to laugh together as a couple. He is so funny, and you're going to be so glad to tune in. For now, leave a rating for us, if you would please. On behalf of Greg and Erin and the entire team, thanks for listening to and watching the Focus on the Family Strengthening Marriage podcast.

Jim Daly: "Live your truth." A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share His truth with a world in need.

I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, *Refocus with Jim Daly*. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocuswithjimdaly.com.