Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

Guest (Male): Do you ever feel like your family spends so much time on screens that they're turning into zombies? Well, you're not the only one, and you can fight back by doing a screen fast. Get a free guide from Plugged In, the tech experts at Focus on the Family. You'll get tips on how to do a week-long screen fast for kids of all ages, plus tips for you as a parent. Get the guide at pluggedin.com/screenfast. That's pluggedin.com/screenfast.

John Fuller: The other day, I got up and I trudged over to the espresso machine, and my wife had beaten me to it. She had already made a coffee, and there were a couple of things that were, let's just say, not quite ready for me to use. Without even thinking about it, when she came by a moment later, I said, "Did you know that this stuff wasn't ready for me?"

It sounded so bad at the moment. She just said, "Oh, sorry," and walked off. I thought, "I can do better than that. I need to reconnect and just apologize for being so very black and white and so judgmental so early in the morning." To be fair, I hadn't had my coffee yet.

Greg Smalley: It's a lot to ask.

John Fuller: I started to meet her as she came out of the bedroom and I started to say I'm sorry. She said, "I appreciate that. I walked away thinking, 'Why am I bothered by this?' He's just expressing concern that he wants the espresso machine a certain way when he gets to it. It's really not hard for me to just rinse things out instead of being lazy and leaving them there. It's important to you, John, so I'm going to do that for you."

I just felt like this was a breakthrough. It only took 41 years. We've only been drinking coffee for 25 of those, to be fair. It was really wonderful for her to say, "I know it's important to you." I thought it was pretty good for me to say, "I blew that one, and I'm so sorry, and I'll try to do better." That was a merging of our interests to say, "I want to serve you in a better way."

Today, we're going to be sharing about adaptability. In fact, all month long, that's our theme on the show: adaptability and flexibility in your relationship. We all need to make adjustments. Maybe it's you, maybe it's your spouse. Maybe it's just that you don't need an espresso machine; get something that takes the little cups and you're done.

I'm John Fuller along with Aaron and Greg Smalley, who lead the Focus Marriage Team. This took 41 years to brew, pun intended. How about you all? When did you first notice, "Yeah, I could show up differently," or, "I need to accept that he or she is different than I thought?"

Aaron Smalley: For us, it wasn't 41 years. It was two weeks. Right back from our honeymoon, I thought we were going to have this deep, intimate conversation and affirming conversation. So I asked Greg what I thought was a simple question because I wanted to know how I was doing as a wife.

Instead of getting the affirmation, Greg took it very logically and answered it in the way he thought would be okay. He rated me a 9.3.

Greg Smalley: On a 10 scale? Yeah, on a 10 scale, you're close. You're not like Jesus 10, but not good enough.

Aaron Smalley: It triggered everything in me. I started crying, it triggered him, and we were off to the races two weeks into our marriage. We learned quickly about these tender spots that we both had. When those get triggered, we don't show up as our best selves.

John Fuller: I understand exactly what you were doing. But this is the red light for all who are joining us today. Don't do that. Especially since you can't predict what you're going to say or do that might trigger your spouse.

Greg Smalley: For me, the part that probably was unexpected for Aaron was that in those moments when I get triggered, I just get stubborn. I dig in. I was explaining why 9.3 is a really good score.

Aaron Smalley: To me, that was like failing.

John Fuller: Would it have been better if he would have asked you, "What do you mean?" or "What are you looking for?"

Aaron Smalley: Yes, that would have worked for me. A 9.8. But I wanted him to give me just positive feedback.

John Fuller: We're going to hear now a conversation that Focus President Jim Daly had on his show with Carrie Trent Stageberg and her husband, Joey. They've experienced some stuff, and they talked about what they called a merge moment.

Jim Daly: Carrie and Joey, welcome.

Carrie Trent Stageberg: Thank you. We're excited to be here.

Joey Stageberg: Thanks for having us.

Jim Daly: It's good to have you. Let's get started. I understand you both experienced a crisis early in your marriage. It had something to do with the kitchen sink. That's good; I thought it was going to say kitchen knife. That would be a very different crisis. But what in the world happened with your sink?

Carrie Trent Stageberg: We had been married all about three weeks. So we were in that really fun newlywed, fresh back from the honeymoon phase. Life is really good. I remember coming home and couldn't find Joey, so I called out. All of a sudden, this head pops around the corner and I'm blinded by this light.

I realize my husband's wearing a headlamp. So I'm like, "Well, what are you doing?" He's like, "Cleaning," like it was the most normal thing in the world. In my mind, I'm like, "Did a dog get sick? Is there a crime scene? Where are we that we need a headlamp for this?"

Jim Daly: That's pretty interesting. Let's just stop and camp on this for a minute. Joey, what were you thinking, man? The headlamp on the sink.

Joey Stageberg: It wasn't the sink on top; it was underneath. It was a little dark.

Jim Daly: But why are you even cleaning under there? That's even a bigger question. There's some unresolved conflict here. Did you take out a toothbrush?

Joey Stageberg: There may have been a toothbrush, and there may have been some other brushes involved.

Jim Daly: What were you communicating? Carrie, how did it make you feel to know that this guy is a clean freak?

Carrie Trent Stageberg: That was the moment when I realized I had no idea who I had married. We had just cleaned the house. To me, it looked pretty clean. Also, under the sink, who does that? You just pretend it's not there, right? But really for me, I started to panic because I was like, "Is Joey going now to have these expectations of me? Because that's not how I operate."

Jim Daly: That can be the first big conflict off the honeymoon, like you said. So what is that merge moment that you talk about in the book?

Carrie Trent Stageberg: Really what it is, is it's a moment like that. Whether for me it was that single moment where it was, "Oh my gosh, he's living in my house, he's not going anywhere, and we're going to have to figure out what clean means for us." Or whether it's like Joey, where it's a series of moments. That merge is those moments where you realize, "Oh my gosh, we are really different." Those can either bring you closer together or completely drive you apart.

Jim Daly: Round two, Joey, it's your turn. What were those small things in your marriage that were really bothering you?

Joey Stageberg: The small messes. When I moved into a place that she had been living in for a little while, as far as that goes, I think it wasn't up to my standards, if you will. Everywhere I would look, for the most part, there would be small messes here and there.

Carrie Trent Stageberg: Opportunities for improvement. He called them Carrie Tornadoes. Carrinadoes. You could basically see where I went in the house.

Jim Daly: It sounds like your demeanor was rather quiet about it. You just went about taking care of it. You didn't put it in her face and say, "Oh my goodness, look under the sink, Carrie. Do you not know how to clean a house?"

Joey Stageberg: I just did it.

Carrie Trent Stageberg: Joey was very kind and very generous.

Jim Daly: But even that was enough, Carrie, to give you some guilt?

Carrie Trent Stageberg: It did. It would be frustrating when I'd clean something and he'd go re-clean. You're like, "I just did that." You kind of get that subconscious feeling of, "I'm not hitting this unspoken expectation that you have." It kind of seemed like it seeped from cleaning into all these other areas that were a little off for Joey.

Jim Daly: So that merge moment, let's hit it again. What does that mean? What are you trying to say in the book that you've written?

Carrie Trent Stageberg: That merge moment really is that moment when you realize we are incredibly different. It's good that you recognize that. We have a choice now. We can either choose to blend these differences and get closer together and have more intimacy in our marriage, or these can drive us apart.

Really the track is it's either a disaster or it's going to be something we can build on, these differences. It's kind of that journey. Really, the merge is that journey of combining your lives to become a powerful unit together as opposed to just being on two separate courses that are going to lead us further apart.

John Fuller: The truth is we're all going to have merge moments. Joey and Carrie are a blended family, so they have multiple merge moments going on in their relationship. We have the whole conversation between them and Jim Daly online. Look for the link in the show notes; it's really good.

Greg, how do we keep showing grace? It's not just once and done. That experience for you all early on had repeated opportunities for growth and hurt feelings. Certainly over our decades of marriage, we've had lots of moments. How do I keep showing up offering grace even though I'm feeling it?

Greg Smalley: First of all, normalize it. This is the product of being with someone totally different, totally unique from who you are. It doesn't say anything about your relationship. It doesn't say anything about you as individuals. It's just normal. You're going to have those moments of disagreement. You're going to bump into a lot of these differences. Frictions happen when you're living with somebody.

Just give each other the grace to go, "All right, this doesn't mean anything, but we need to work through it." You think about for Aaron and me, I think I was 23 and Aaron was 24 when we got married. We had all that time, 20-some years of doing things our own way and what seemed normal and felt right to us.

It really does take some time. The research talks about between five and seven years to truly merge from two individuals into that oneness, that we're a well-oiled machine, a team. It just takes time. You can't rush that. There's not much you can do to speed that up. You just need to keep learning and take some time to do that, giving each other grace as far as the benefit of the doubt.

In Aaron's story, she could have, if she wanted, given me the benefit of the doubt that I know that Greg loves me, he's proud of me, and he sees me for who I really am. In this moment, he didn't express that in a way that I appreciated, but I know who he is. There are ways that we can do that for each other.

Aaron Smalley: Even as you're saying that, the longer a couple is married, the easier that becomes because they're forming that secure attachment, hopefully. That's what we're working toward. Today, I could give you that benefit of the doubt that I don't know what's going on for Greg, I don't know what he was thinking or what was going on for him.

But in that moment, two weeks into our marriage, we were so new. I brought all kinds of stuff with me, you brought all kinds of stuff with you, and it just was very insecure at that point.

Greg Smalley: It just takes time to attach and bond and gain that confidence in each other.

John Fuller: Over time, what are some things that you all do to just make sure the thing isn't out there dangling and unresolved? We had a lot of life at once, and so we had moments, repeated moments, where there's a flashpoint and we can't get to it and we just have to go on. What are some things to close the loop and make sure I squeeze your hand and you know I'm with you, even though I don't always show up the way I want to?

Aaron Smalley: I would say keeping short accounts, coming back and having a conversation. Not to cast blame or to point fingers, but to really understand what was going on in that moment. I easily could have done that with Greg. I could have circled back and asked the question, "What were you thinking as you processed that question?"

Being curious, not judgmental. Not "What were you thinking?" but "What were you thinking as you were processing that question?" I am certain there was stuff in your family of origin that guided your response, and even your personality and previous experiences. So it's really being curious and being willing to enter into that conversation. Granted, it has to feel safe to both.

Greg Smalley: John, seriously, you weren't trying to do this, but how you described what you and Dina did to redeem the moment that had gone on, that was it. You describe what she did as she was thinking, "Why did that bother me so much?" She first went to, "What's going on for me?" which I imagine opened her heart enough to really go, "I wonder what that was about for him."

She could see why John would have been upset or frustrated. She's been married to him for 40-some years, so she knows this guy. She knows that wasn't who he really was. She did exactly what we would coach someone to do.

When you guys came together, you owned it. You were like, "Yeah, I'd prefer a clean coffee thing." But you also said, "I don't like how I showed up. I don't like how I spoke to her." So you owned that and apologized. You both did that beautifully.

John Fuller: That's it. Analyze and break down what you did. That would be God's grace. Thank you for coaching me all these years that we've worked together. We had a breakthrough. I told her that. I said, "Hey, this was like a small thing, but it felt like a win, and I'm going to tell a lot of people about it." I didn't intend to tell everybody here on the show, but there we are.

We want you to be able to push on through these things, to have those merge moments as Joey and Carrie were talking about. Certainly, the book by Carrie called The Merge for Marriage would be an excellent resource if this is an ongoing concern for you. Get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry when you support this show and Focus on the Family.

Donate today as you can, either a monthly pledge or a one-time gift of any amount, and we'll send that book to you. The link is in the notes. Then we have a free marriage assessment that Greg and Aaron and the team have developed. It is phenomenal. Take that assessment; you'll see how you're doing well, some areas of strength, and an area or two of growth or at least conversation with your spouse. That's free, and we're going to link over to that in the show notes as well.

Next time, Ted Lowe will share insights about not focusing so much on negativity. For now, on behalf of Greg and Aaron Smalley and the entire team, I'm John Fuller. Thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.

Guest (Male): Do you ever feel like your family spends so much time on screens that they're turning into zombies? Well, you're not the only one, and you can fight back by doing a screen fast. Get a free guide from Plugged In, the tech experts at Focus on the Family. You'll get tips on how to do a week-long screen fast for kids of all ages, plus tips for you as a parent. Get the guide at pluggedin.com/screenfast. That's pluggedin.com/screenfast.