Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

Guest (Male): Lorinda knows firsthand how to get help for her family, and that's why she's part of our monthly support team.

Lorinda: Focus on the Family makes a point of always saying that the money given to Focus on the Family goes straight to ministry. And I'm very thankful for that.

Jim Daly: Working together, we can transform our nation one family at a time. Support this ministry with a monthly pledge today at focusonthefamily.com/families.

John Fuller: We're talking about conflict on the show this month, and money is the subject for today's show because finances are part of every marriage, and not all couples have the benefit of seeing things eye to eye. I'm John Fuller, joined by Dr. Greg Smalley and his wife, almost, almost very soon, Dr. Aaron Smalley. They lead the Focus Marriage Team here. I've been very fortunate. We've had a few things on money, like our first fight was over money, but since then not so many. Dena and I are typically on the same page. Not always. How about you all?

Dr. Greg Smalley: We have no money, so it helps that we don't fight about it thus.

Dr. Aaron Smalley: I was thinking about it. How soon did we have conflict over money when we first got married? I thought of when I found the tennis ball can.

John Fuller: The tennis ball can?

Dr. Greg Smalley: Why do we have to go there, Aaron?

Dr. Aaron Smalley: I went down into our basement and I found this tennis ball can. I was like, why is this here? I opened it up and it was stashed with $20 bills. I was like, "Whoa, I hit the jackpot!" So I asked Greg, "Where did this come from?"

Dr. Greg Smalley: I was saving up to buy her something really nice as a surprise. This is in the day before those tennis ball cans were clear. It was aluminum.

Because we would argue a lot about just, I think in the budget, she got $20, I got $20. I mean, this was way back when. But yet she would want to talk about how I was going to spend my $20.

John Fuller: She loved you and had plans for your $20.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Exactly. So I didn't have the language like through our reactive cycle assessment of knowing that I felt controlled. That's what was going on for me.

Dr. Aaron Smalley: Well, and I think you would get extra $20 bills when you would speak with your dad.

Dr. Greg Smalley: And so I just in my mind, a $20 bill here and there, I thought, you know, let me just stash them here and then I can use them. I won't have to explain. I made it, it's for me. So it all made sense. It was a horrible choice, a destructive choice. Financial infidelity is what it was. It was just being secretive about finances and that wasn't helpful for us and we worked through it.

And again, it was a beautiful way that verse talks about your sins will find you out. Someone had asked to borrow some tennis balls and she's like, "Well, I think Greg's got some sports stuff. Let me..." That's how that all came out. So it was a poor choice on my part.

But looking back, I just wish that I would have been courageous enough to say to her, "This doesn't feel like a win to me. We decide on an amount. Can we figure out a way to discuss that that feels good to both of us?" So I wish I would have been able to do that versus hiding some $20 bills in a tennis ball can.

John Fuller: Well, maybe you've got something like Greg's skeleton in the closet that is just waiting to come out. Take our free online reactive cycle assessment that Greg mentioned. The link is in the notes. Meanwhile, let's go ahead and listen now to a portion of a conversation with Focus on the Family President Jim Daly. He spoke with Chuck and Ann Bentley about finances in marriage.

Jim Daly: Chuck, I want to pick up on that because that's a profound moment and we need to understand that. I'm sure there are men and women that are listening who maybe they came to that precipice, but they didn't spiritually crossover. They didn't feel that conviction quite the same way. How did you find that humility in that moment to say, kind of like King David, "I am that man"?

Chuck Bentley: I am that man. You know, Jim, I've never met anybody else that I've known in my life in all these years of doing what I do that have repented of idolatry of money. It was something unique to me and something I didn't know was happening. Ann didn't know how to describe it, but she sensed that was my problem. It took the Lord to reveal to me that that's really what was going on. My heart belonged to money.

I had a financial goal. All of my goals that I kept written in my wallet were financial. I had no spiritual goals whatsoever. I was just going through the spiritual motions.

And Ann wondered why I wasn't the spiritual leader of the home. Well, it's because I was worshipping money. I did my devotion with the Wall Street Journal. That's how I lived. And once the scales fell from my eyes, I just immediately saw that we had to start over from the inside out. It wasn't the money that would solve our financial problems. We had to solve them as a couple together.

So we started just rebuilding from the very, very basics of our marriage. After 20 years of marriage, it started afresh. And we were just talking this morning before we came here, it's been a miracle. God did a complete transformational miracle. And I would say apart from my original salvation, repenting of the love of money has been the most transformative thing that's ever happened to me.

Jim Daly: And that transformation, I mean, you prayed for nine, 10 years for that moment to occur. It has to be a little surreal. Is this really happening? Is he really making that change? Are we going to move in a better direction? Something that in your heart you were hoping for. How did that feel to hear Chuck talk about his sin in that way after you'd been praying for him for so long? I mean, were you hesitant or were you embracing or were you both?

Ann Bentley: I was just grateful because I saw the faithfulness of God at that time. It was an emotional time for both of us. And we were surrounded with people who were praying for us at the same time in that Crown group. I mean, he got on his knees in the group and wept. So it took time. There were big changes. I think I was pregnant with number four at the time. Four boys! So I was emotional anyway.

Jim Daly: Well, I just so appreciate that honesty because I can imagine it came with a bundle of good and bad thinking, okay, is this really going to be a change or is it going to be a few days and then back to normal? And I'm sure at times it's a rollercoaster ride because those are habits.

Ann Bentley: You know what, Jim, I think for me, it was all good.

Jim Daly: That's good to hear.

Chuck Bentley: You know, Jim, I'm reliving that moment because not only did I repent before the Lord, but I needed to repent before Ann for treating her the way I did. And I began to accept her. I realized she had been right and I'd been wrong. And I grew to so deeply appreciate her willingness to persevere through my arrogance, my stubbornness, my demanding my way and sort of living on the edge.

And it's like I looked at her one day and I thought, "Oh my goodness, you're exactly what God knew I needed. I needed you to be complete." And she had just persevered long enough till I realized what a wonderful, beautiful, godly asset that she was as my wife.

And that's why we wrote this about marriage, because we were just really operating on half of the horsepower of our relationship because she was excluded from helping. And once we came together, everything changed dramatically. Our intimacy, our ability to get along, our financials changed. I mean, we weren't in financial trouble. But in a sense we were, because I was so far off of God's path that I was going in the wrong direction and that's what brought us back together as a couple.

Jim Daly: And there's so many elements here. The stubbornness of man's heart. And what I appreciate about what you're expressing, there has to come a breaking point. And that's what's really good about what you're saying and so many of us, it is a male attribute, but I'm sure women struggle too in this day and age with certain idolatries.

But it's that ability to hear the Lord. I mean, one of the things that's so clear in your story is that you have to come to some point of honesty. And there's so much dishonesty in the culture today, in our own hearts, about who we really are, what we're about. And the ability to see truth seems to be getting much more difficult in this culture and in this day and age. And that's what intrigues me about your story, your ability to zero in through your idolatry, through your pride. God gave you that ability to see what was true. And that changes everybody's life, right? When you have that experience, bang! That's the difference. And that's what becoming a Christian is like. All of a sudden the book is not talking about other people. It's talking about you and you realize it and you go, "Wow, that is my heart."

John Fuller: So Greg, I love how we heard from Chuck that story of repentance. You kind of led the way on this episode. I mean, you repented right upfront about the tennis ball can. What do you recommend for couples that are feeling maybe a little conviction by what you shared and what Chuck was sharing?

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, just thinking about the way that Chuck repented over that idolatry of money, I think that's a great awareness and insight and that's probably where it begins. To think about what are some of these areas of my life that I've created an idol or I'm being secretive about something? Just from there, pray about that. "God, reveal in me what are some of those things," because they are impacting the marriage.

That impacted my own integrity. It was very easy for me to justify and rationalize that behavior. And yet Aaron didn't know about any of it. And the way it was impacting us was the secrecy of me needing to make sure that I was covering my tracks and keeping things well hidden.

Because it was a choice. It was a choice for me to go downstairs and find the tennis ball can, grab a $20 bill, go and spend it however I wanted without having to talk to her. It made sense. It didn't seem like a big deal. No harm, no foul. What she doesn't know won't hurt her. All of that.

So for me, I wish I could say that God revealed that or I really was led to that place like Chuck talked about of that repentance. I mean, that came out after Aaron found it. But I think about even now in my life, maybe for me, I really wrestled with, and this may sound weird, but the idolatry of being right. Because so often within our conflict, I just would settle into who's right and who's wrong. I'm right. I know I'm right. It's just going to, you know, God, show Aaron how right I am. She's your daughter, you help her. I can't be wrong here. I mean, this is so clearly right.

And thus I always wanted to win. I mean, I would never have told you, "Oh, I'm that competitive to where I need to win," because I'm not super competitive really at all. Kind of like a sloth.

Dr. Aaron Smalley: I carry the competitive sloth.

Dr. Greg Smalley: But it really manifested in my desire to feel right and to make sure that Aaron knew that so then I would feel successful and not a failure. And so I just at some point really began to understand that arguing about who's right and who's wrong and really digging in to be right, that was for me the idol that I needed to lay down.

Lust, I mean, that's been another one in my life. I've talked about that before, how that came out through pornography or whatever. And that's why I think the best thing that we can do is just, "God, what am I missing here?" I'm so good at rationalizing and justifying, saying it's not that big of a deal, I'll just steal a little glance at that picture or that female. No big deal. But that's the kind of stuff that we want to keep saying, "Holy Spirit, please keep convicting me. I want to hear that little voice and I want to be led to that place of repentance like Chuck talked about." He did a great job.

John Fuller: I appreciate that vulnerability. And I'm just thinking about the last episode with Ron and Jan Welch and better choices in life for your marriage. This is one of those. Look in the mirror and ask God to do a heart work.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Can we do a show maybe on poor choices Aaron has made? It feels like I've been doing a lot of the sharing over the last few episodes.

Dr. Aaron Smalley: The next one. There you go.

John Fuller: Well for now, follow up by taking that reactive cycle assessment we mentioned or getting a copy of the book from Chuck and Ann Bentley called *Money Problems, Marriage Solutions: 7 Keys to Aligning Your Finances and Uniting Your Hearts*. This is an area of life in your marriage that you want to be one about, and that is you want to be unified in your finances. So get this book for a donation of any amount today. We've got the opportunity for you to donate to Focus on the Family and request the book in the show notes.

And then finally, let me share with you about a new digital radio station called Focus Live. It features great Christian music that you'll enjoy and wisdom for marriage and parenting and your spiritual growth throughout. It's called Focus Live and it's on the Godcaster app and we'll link to it in the show notes. Next time we're going to have a conversation featuring Jim and Jean Daly along with Josh and Christi Straub about being a teammate with your spouse. For now, I'm John Fuller, and on behalf of Greg and Aaron Smalley and the entire team, thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.

Guest (Female): Devana grew up in a dysfunctional family filled with abuse, but we gave her hope.

Devana: I support Focus on the Family because I hope others will be impacted and grow in Christ just as I have. That they will see healing in their past and what they can do for their future.

Jim Daly: I'm Jim Daly. Let's transform our nation one family at a time with your monthly pledge at focusonthefamily.com/join.