Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast

John Fuller: All this month, our theme is emotional safety and today we’re going to be addressing the difficult subject of abuse. I’m John Fuller, along with Dr. Greg Smalley and his wife, newly minted Dr. Erin Smalley. Congratulations. It’s the fruition of a long, hard journey.

Erin Smalley: Thank you so much. Yes, three and a half years.

John Fuller: We’re so grateful for you and the effort. As we talk about this subject of abuse, there’s a lot that I know you want to bring to the table. But first, we’re going to get to a conversation that Focus President Jim Daly had with Karen DeArmond Garner about some of her life experiences.

Jim Daly: A common question that feels so insensitive to even say it this way, but people think it. Why do victims stay in those relationships?

Karen DeArmond Garner: I’ve heard that often. "I would never. I’m really strong. I would never." I said that’s what we all said. That’s what we all said.

I know this question is very insensitive. It’s a horrible question to ask, why did you stay? However, it’s an opportunity that oftentimes in Christianity we don’t know we can go because we hear God hates divorce, that marriage is the ultimate goal, and we can’t violate that. I honestly didn’t know I could go.

Jim Daly: If I can, let’s dig into that a little bit because, again, you’ve differentiated between different abuses, like physical abuse and then you have emotional abuse, verbal abuse, those kinds of things.

Certainly in the context of physical abuse, you’ve got to get yourself to a place of safety, especially if there’s children involved as well. That’s something here at Focus we want you to know, that’s plan A. You’ve got to get to a place of safety.

In that verbal abuse context, where you start laying on the importance of enduring it because you’re Christian and this is the spouse I married and so this is what I get, "Lord, teach me what you want to teach," how’s a healthy Christian processing of this to get to a better place if you do have that abusive spouse?

Karen DeArmond Garner: The majority of marriages are not physically abusive. I talk to women every day. "He never hits me," they’ll lead with that. "He’s never hit me, but he does this." He’s verbally abusive. It’s violence with your words. Our words bring life and death.

When someone never physically harms you but constantly controls you—whether you sleep in their bed, whether you get to eat dinner, whether you get to drive the car, or they isolate you—all of these little things. They go silent. They don’t talk to you for days.

You don’t understand what’s happening and so you don’t know that it’s even abusive until you say it out loud to somebody and they’re like, "That’s not normal in a marriage."

John Fuller: Erin, there’s a range of abuse. Certainly, physical is something that we can see the effects of, but there’s emotional and even verbal abuse. What’s a first piece of advice that you give to somebody that’s in a very difficult, unsafe circumstance?

Erin Smalley: So often it’s so difficult to identify emotional abuse because people are going to have bad moments versus when you start identifying a pattern of aggressive, controlling, minimizing, demeaning verbal abuse. It is not okay.

My first step for that person would be to get into some help with a licensed Christian counselor to have a safe place to where you can explore what is happening here. Naming it as abuse is really the entrance point into acknowledging what is really happening, which can be really hard because there are no bruises. But there’s a lot of damage done, especially to the individual, as well as to the marriage and the level of safety in the marriage.

Greg Smalley: There’s a timeframe, there’s a severity, there’s an impact. There’s no one thing that takes something from unhealthy to abuse, but what you’re suggesting is you have to recognize and get out of the circumstance a little bit to do so, that this is not tenable. I can’t stay here for this.

It’s really the silence that is a big part of the destructive nature of abuse because it’s so easy to begin to justify or think maybe it wasn’t that bad or that’s not really what’s going on. Like Erin said in the beginning, the physical abuse is obvious.

It’s the other types of abuse that can be so difficult to identify, which is why it is so important is to be able to go to someone to say what’s going on. To have someone hear that, encourage and support you, and get you the right kinds of help.

Erin Smalley: We want to make it very clear that neither one is okay, nor would we encourage someone to remain in a situation that is unsafe. It’s important to identify it, to name it, and to map out the consistent pattern of mistreatment within the marriage.

Greg Smalley: Sometimes we can take a verse like in Malachi 2:16. An older translation that often is quoted is "God hates divorce." But that’s actually an older translation. The newer translations, the way it’s now translated, is "the man who hates and divorces his wife does violence to the one that he should protect."

Hebrew scholars have really decided that in the past they’ve attributed that talking about God, but now they’re saying Malachi was directed at the husband. Using any verse to control, manipulate, or weaponize what someone’s going through is wrong. Even a verse like that, that’s not even what that’s saying. That’s not an accurate translation.

We’ve heard that, sadly. We hear, "I have to stay, God hates divorce." Or that’s said to someone. We just want to keep saying that’s not true and that is not our Father in heaven. That is not His desire. This is a daughter, this is a son of His, and their well-being matters to Him.

John Fuller: I so appreciate that. This is a big topic. It’s difficult. I’m sensitive to the fact this might be something that you might not even want to talk about because it is just too scary to think about.

Many years ago, I had a friend of my daughter’s call me. She was a little uncertain about it all, but she kind of got to the point eventually and said, "I think your daughter has an eating disorder and these are the behaviors I’ve been seeing."

I responded, "No, I think she’s fine. She’s just on a weight kick right now." I realized afterward that this observer of my daughter was speaking truth and indeed she did have an eating disorder. It is hard to hear.

What I want to appeal to you as you hear these words from our guests, Karen DeArmond Garner, and also Greg and Erin, is don’t pass by somebody saying, "Maybe you ought to get help." Focus on the Family is here to offer help.

We have caring Christian counselors. They’ll be a starting point for you. They’re not able to carry on a long conversation with you beyond the initial phone consultation, but they will talk to you, they’ll listen to you, they’ll pray with you, and they’ll direct you to somebody that you can trust. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

If you’re interested in getting a copy of Karen DeArmond Garner’s book, *Hope for Healing from Domestic Abuse*, we’ll send that to you for a donation of any amount to this ministry and to support this show. You’ll find a link to do so in the show notes.

Next time, we’ll hear from Deborah Fileta about the importance of checking in on our emotions. For now, on behalf of doctors Greg and Erin Smalley, thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Marriage Podcast.