Focus on the Family Strengthening Marriage Podcast

Guest (Male): Is your marriage struggling? Communication breaking down, trust fading, conflict that never seems to resolve? There is still hope. Hope Restored marriage intensives by Focus on the Family helps couples step away from daily life and focus fully on rebuilding their relationship. Right now, through the Marriage Investment Initiative, Hope Restored is investing $1,000 toward every marriage intensive. Visit hoperestored.com/marriage-investment.

John Fuller: Most of us in our marriage need to learn how to practice forgiveness. We need to understand the need for it, deal with whatever it was, and move forward. But how practically? Well, thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller with Dr. Greg Smalley and Erin Smalley, and we're going to get going here with a clip from Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Jim spoke with Dr. Randy Schroeder about forgiveness.

Jim Daly: Randy, let me ask you this. We've laid out the case for forgiveness, obviously, but we're still human and our flesh works against the spirit in us as Christians. So why specifically with Christians do we struggle so much with forgiveness? Again, it doesn't have to be in the context of unfaithfulness, but anything along that continuum where somebody has hurt us or our spouse has hurt us. Why do we struggle with that forgiveness, knowing that's what the Lord would want from us?

Dr. Randy Schroeder: It's just human to have a hard time saying those words. The other thing I think is so important is to use the "forgive" word and to say, "I forgive you," or "With God's help, I'll work at forgiving you," and not say, "That's okay, no problem, I'm over it." To say, "I forgive you," or "With God's help, I'll work at forgiving you" seals the forgiveness process and makes it easier to move forward in a marriage relationship.

Jim Daly: I mentioned the process part of this conversation, and you liken a good marriage to baking a good apple pie together. You've got my attention. What's that about?

Dr. Randy Schroeder: It takes two healthy spouses to make a healthy Christian marriage. Personal issues can hurt a marriage relationship, like a high-control spouse or abuse, verbal abuse, or addictions. In a healthy marriage, both spouses add healthy ingredients to that good-tasting apple pie.

If either spouse is a "vinegar spouse" and throws in vinegar into that apple pie, of course, it's going to taste not good, horrible. So the spouse with the personal issues would need to really work hard to make sure that they improve on whatever that personal issue is so that that apple pie tastes delicious and they've got healthy ingredients, both of them, going into the apple pie.

Jim Daly: Is this going back to the beginning of the show where we're both unhealthy at some level in the relationship? We have to look in the mirror and start with ourselves, don't we?

Dr. Randy Schroeder: Yes. And even hold our spouses accountable. It is so essential that if there's a hurt or disappointment and the one spouse who committed that hurt and disappointment doesn't recognize it, the other partner needs to say, "When I heard you say ABC, or when I saw you do XYZ, or when I saw you forget to do XYZ..." That holds that person accountable. Then they need to say again, "I'm sorry I hurt you. Will you please forgive me?" Then the "I forgive you" heals that relationship.

Jim Daly: I'm going back. You caught me with the apple pie analogy because I'm thinking of the shopping list. Do we sit together and create the shopping list and then scratch out the vinegar? Who creates the shopping list? If I were to create the apple pie for your shopping list, it would be control, worry, complaining. That's not a good apple pie, dear. Let's get apples. I want love, affection, affirmation. I'm just playing with that.

Dr. Randy Schroeder: That's a good question. Logical knowledge can help with that. That's why in *Simple Habits for Marital Happiness*, I look at seven major areas of the marriage relationship. That logical knowledge and those habits point out, like you just said, control issues or a spouse that's critical all the time or other personal issues that can hurt a marriage relationship. Couples need to be able to see what healthy behaviors and healthy words are.

Jim Daly: That can be pretty delicate. The accountability part is what I'm caught on here. What does the conversation look like? "Did you know that you're vinegar?" Let me take a guess. Work on your own shopping list would probably be the safest way to do that rather than list those shopping ingredients for your spouse.

Dr. Randy Schroeder: What I ask couples to do, and I have 90 powerful habits in my Christian marriage book, I'll ask couples to pick one habit a week that would strengthen their marriage relationship. It could be just a positive, like "I want more compliments." I've got the appreciation vitamin I call it, and they would read that one. Another spouse says, "You're criticizing me almost daily." There's another habit they can go and look at.

Then they can lovingly, I say do it lovingly, read an effective habit every week that will strengthen their marriage relationship and help them come together. That's a nice way of pointing out that this is bothering me and asking if they will please work on this to become a healthier Christian partner.

Jim Daly: You urge couples to be givers in their marriage. That makes complete sense. Again, sometimes that becomes difficult because you think she doesn't deserve me giving something right now because she really wounded me. But why is giving so important and how do you practice that in your marriage?

Dr. Randy Schroeder: We're going to go right back to the Bible. God gave His only begotten Son. Jesus gave His life for the sins of the world. We need to follow that example and be givers in our marriages as well and not takers. Avoid selfishness and be selfless. One of the questions I ask spouses to ask one another at the beginning of the week is, "What can I do better in this coming week? How can I give to you in this coming week?" so there is no guesswork. We're not going to ask partners to read each other's minds, but just be like Jesus, be a giver, and ask those questions.

John Fuller: I so appreciate the practicality of Dr. Randy Schroeder's insights and his tips. Small adjustments, and we've talked about this from time to time, but it's a good reminder. One improvement at a time can really start to add up in a relationship, can't it?

Dr. Greg Smalley: It really can. It made me think of when we were on a road trip teaching our youngest daughter, Annie, how to drive. She had a permit, so she needed some good long hours on the freeway. All of a sudden, a semi-truck in front of her had one of the tires blow. It shot all these huge chunks of tire right in front of us. As an inexperienced driver, she quickly swerved us to the left to avoid that. We were cranking down at about 75 miles an hour. It starts to fishtail.

I'm honestly thinking, how can I steer us to where the grass is because maybe that's better when we roll? I just knew we were rolling. I didn't think we were going to get out of this fishtail. So I just said, "Let go of the wheel," and I grabbed the wheel and just slowly, very small little differences on the steering wheel, got us out of that particular tailspin we were in.

It just happened that fast, but for the next several miles as we debriefed with Annie, she was saying she was never driving again. We just talked about those small changes. Instead of doing some big huge change, that's the same for marriage. It's rarely the huge, big, grand change that's going to make the difference. It's going to be just those little tiny micro-changes.

What it does then is feel more doable. It feels a little bit more successful when we're focused on something small versus trying to figure out the big answer or the magic wand kind of experience. If you're feeling disconnected, what if we just started with something small like checking in once a week? Let's just start having a quick little 10-minute high and low. What was the high of your day and the low of your day?

When you're faced with something like feeling disconnected, like married roommates who have drifted so far apart, we feel we've got to start going out on date nights and doing all these big things versus just taking it easy. Identify a few micro-differences that can help you guys start to feel a little bit more connected. You gain momentum and there's a confidence that comes from that.

Even for Annie, that's what she learned from that experience as we debriefed it. She was going, "Wow, I didn't realize in the face of something like that, just make a real tiny steering wheel change." So as you are faced with these things, part of the discussion is just some small differences that we could make. Let those add up and let the momentum gain. You can add in big date nights and all that. Whatever you guys are faced with, you need those smaller changes to begin to create the effect you're looking for.

John Fuller: That's good. We heard Dr. Schroeder talking about the small things that really do add up. I hope that's going to activate some people to start doing small changes in your relationship today. Get more from Dr. Randy Schroeder in his book called *Simple Habits for Marital Happiness: Practical Skills and Tools that Build a Strong and Satisfying Relationship*. It's eminently approachable. Get a copy today when you make a donation to Focus on the Family. Support this show and this ministry with a one-time gift or a monthly pledge of any amount, and we'll send the book to you. Erin, we have this fantastic marriage assessment. It's been great, and I want to encourage our listeners and viewers to go ahead and take advantage of that.

Erin Smalley: Yes, it's a free marriage assessment called the Focus on the Family Marriage Assessment. If you want to discover where these little changes, these baby steps can be made, take this assessment. You and your spouse both take it. It will help identify areas in your marriage where you can grow and where you're strong. It just brings these things to the surface and then you can focus on what is the next baby step we're going to take.

John Fuller: That's good. That free marriage assessment, over a million people have taken it. Join them and take it today. The link is in the notes. Next time we'll hear from Ron and Jan Welch about how they overcame 16 difficult years of poor communication. For now, on behalf of Greg and Erin Smalley and the entire team, I'm John Fuller, and thanks for joining us for the Focus on the Family Strengthening Marriage Podcast.

Guest (Male): Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share His truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocuswithjimdaly.com.