Focal Point

Dave Drewie: Welcome to Focal Point. I'm Dave Drewie, and today we're setting aside the regular message for something a little different. It's another edition of Ask Pastor Mike Live, where real listeners bring their real questions straight to Pastor Mike Fabarez. Today, a parent of four asks when it's too late to use physical discipline. And later, a listener raises a question that's been stirring in his church: whether elders who are using AI to write their sermons are doing a disservice to the congregation they're supposed to lead. Pastor Mike doesn't hold back. Let's get started.

Guest (Female): Hi Pastor Mike. My question is on the age of spanking. I'm very for spanking, of course, but I've been saved about two years. Unfortunately, it took this long of sanctification to get to the point where I know I need to do better at parenting. My kids are all seven and older. I've heard a few conflicting opinions on if you can still spank or if it's too late to spank. I'm looking for an immediate response, like this morning my 7-year-old was not listening. I need something immediate. I was wondering your take on when it is too late to spank.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Every kid is different, but the average second grader is still in the range of some paddling. It works because it's an immediate, painful response to an action. It is totally legal if it's done with your emotions in check. It must be understood with a clear articulation of why he's done wrong. You should rebuke him that this is not right and explain the consequence: you're getting three swats or five swats based on your judicial response to his infraction. I don't think it's too late at seven. That's the number you gave me, right? Seven?

Guest (Female): And then I also have a 9, 10, and 15-year-old. I think those are reaching—for sure, 15 is.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: You need a boat oar with the 15-year-old, probably. No, 15 is too old. As I often have said, and I wrote this in my book on parenting, when you finally have a child who would choose the paddling over something else, then you know it's not the sharpest pain. If he would much rather have the paddle than to go to bed early without dessert or to be grounded for the weekend because he wants to go out, that's when I know it would be better for him to be grounded for the weekend.

You can kind of figure that out, or if you have to, you can ask at one point and give them the option. I wouldn't bait-and-switch him in that moment, but I would know for next time that it's a sharper pain to give him some other form of deprivation. It really is deprivation. That's the point even with a spanking; you're depriving him of a rear end that's not hurting.

That's what you're giving him with something else: I'm taking something away. In my childhood, Dad would say, "You're out in the backyard on Saturday and you're going to weed the whole yard. You're going to pull the weeds out of the yard, and you're not going to the park to play baseball until you're done with it." Manual labor was a part of the discipline that I had when I was too old for a spanking.

Whatever it takes for you to be creative to say, "Here is what you're going to do." Here's the problem with parents today: they don't even have the ability to stick with whatever they say. Kids run roughshod over the parents. Parents need to be in charge. If your kids don't respect you, that's because you didn't do the job when they were three and four years old. You have to be in charge.

You have to let your words always have gravity to them because you always enforced what you said. You don't need to say things 10 times. You should be able to say things twice and they know for sure you mean them. It would be great if you said them once. Jesus said, "Let your yes be yes and your no be no." That is how we should be, and that's the goal.

If they're 15 and you say you're going to have to go out and wash my car or do something for the household that's good, like paint the back door, there ought to be compliance. That's going to be taking away freedom or taking away whatever gadgets. I guess that's the easiest thing for parents to do—lock their phone in a box.

Look for options, but certainly seven is still in the range where it's the easiest way. It's what the Bible calls the shebet. You apply it under your calm. You're not out of control; you're not angry. The Bible says if you withhold the shebet, you don't love your child. If you apply it diligently, then you're going to free him and save him from death. That means if you don't discipline him, God ends up disciplining him. An undisciplined child ends up eventually having the ultimate discipline of God. As we see in the New Testament, some are weak, some are sick, and some have even died because of God's discipline.

Guest (Female): That helps. Thank you. I just got a couple different conflicting things from different Christians, so I wanted to hear your perspective. I'm glad to hear that it's okay to do that for a 7-year-old. For the other kids, I do use those methods, like telling my 10-year-old he's not going to be able to play baseball later. It doesn't help him to behave in the moment. Of course, later on, he is disciplined and I stick through that discipline. I know it'll probably just take consistency, but the spanking works because it's immediate, whereas the 10-year-old is not going to behave in that moment because the discipline is later on.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Let me ask you this: do you ever put them to work as discipline on the house or some other project? Have you done that with your older kids?

Guest (Female): No, unfortunately, just taking away phones or having fun. That is something I should have thought of, and I definitely will use that.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: You should sit down and brainstorm about that. Here's the other thing I find: sometimes when we really work to push our kids into some task, they end up finding some joy in that. They end up saying, "This is productive." They get to do work that they never would have done in their chores because we're asking them to do something harder or something that takes longer.

They end up learning something about a work ethic that they actually take pride in because one day they're going to weed their own backyard or paint their own back door. That actually ends up being something that's a win for them. I just think you should think about what are some ways we can creatively do some things that take away their freedom and put them to work.

Think about the old days when you'd put someone in a penitentiary. Penitentiary means a penance; they're supposed to be repentant. They would put them out and put them on the chain gang, and they would get to work. They would work on paving roads or they would put them on building railroads. Even today, they would have them out picking up trash on the side of the highway.

You can still go to the South and see guys on horseback with shotguns watching over the guys that are out there picking up trash or digging ditches for pipes. They're doing something constructive. Even prisoners end up having some positive work ethic built into their lives, as opposed to the transient who's out there just going through trash cans and has no work ethic.

Sometimes they learn even in the process of being punished by having to do something that they wouldn't normally do. I'm rambling now, but I hope that helps.

Guest (Female): It's okay. I appreciate it. I feel kind of embarrassed that's not something we've thought of, because my husband and I are like, "Yeah, let's make him as bored as possible," but why not add the work? So I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: They'll do it sloppily at first because they'll be irritated by it, but that's okay. Keep them at it and make sure they get it done. Even if it's not done right the first time, give them another one next time they blow it. They'll get through it. I think they may surprise you; eventually, they'll start doing that work better because they'll get some pride in their work if it catches on. We're made to work, and eventually we start to do our work with a sense of exercising dominion, which is what we're created for. I think it's going to be a win-win. Thanks for the calling.

Dave Drewie: That's Pastor Mike Fabarez on Focal Point. The calls you're hearing today come straight from Ask Pastor Mike Live, Pastor Mike's weekly program where listeners bring their questions and get answers right on the air. If you've got a question of your own, the door is open. Tune in any Tuesday through Thursday at 1:00 PM Central and you can be part of the conversation. All the details are at AskPastorMike.live. We've got one more call coming up right now.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Let's talk to Steven. Steven, you're on the air with Pastor Mike. How can I help?

Steven: Hey, Pastor Mike. How are you doing today? Long story short, I am involved in a small church here in Texas. It's an elder structure where there are seven teaching elders. Two are on staff. My concern is that with technology, I know at least three of them are big tech guys. I'm not a tech person. I have a past. I was born again in 2005. I'm 61, so I've been chasing after the Lord pretty crazy for 21 years. My concern is that some of these elders are using AI to prepare their sermons, and I wanted to get your feedback on that.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: In what way do you suspect they're using AI?

Steven: One of them has never preached before, and his first sermon was absolutely perfect. It was amazing. That is either he's anointed or did he use technology? I've never done this before, but I went into the AI chat and I just said, "Write me a sermon on 1 Peter 3:15-18," and it just spit it out there.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Here's what I would do, and definitely that's worthy of confronting. If you gave it that prompt, I'm going to go totally out of bounds, throw the flag. The job of someone who bears the title episkopos or presbyteros—presbyteros is the title elder—you're a teaching elder, you're someone who's supposed to be the top level in the church that is guarding sound doctrine and apt to teach.

You're a doctrinal leader leading a church that's supposed to be the pillar and foundation of the truth. That means that you're not just there performing a soliloquy on doctrine. If you use AI, you can come up with a really impressive proclamation of doctrine. But if you got off the platform and some guy who just doesn't quite understand why the doctrine is the way it is asked you a question in the lobby, the dude who is just saying this off a manuscript would have no idea how to answer the questions.

In other words, he's just a paper tiger. He's got no depth; there's no real doctrinal leadership in that man. That's why I would confront the man and say, "Was that an AI-generated sermon? Did you give it a prompt to create that sermon? If so, that's not the kind of eldership we need in this church, I don't care how small the church is."

I'd rather have a clunky sermon that you actually prepared and you know what you're saying because you developed what you're saying. That's better for us because my teenage son one day is going to ask you what that means and how you got there and to explain that doctrine to me, and you'll be able to do it even if it's not as polished as it would be if you had AI write it.

The other thing I would say, too, is that guy's going to have to keep his nose down on a document or a screen to deliver it. In my mind, this is not preaching. I don't need a guy reading a document to us, and that's really what a lot of preaching is today. That's got to stop. Why not pass out the manuscript to all of us? We can all go home and read it while we eat a sandwich.

No, I'm going to hear the proclamation of the word through a man of God who knows the word and he should have his chin up. I understand; I bring some notes into the auditorium, but those are prompts so I know my roadmap to get through everything I've prepared. I don't want a guy reading a manuscript. To me, that just is not preaching, and I don't think that's really what we need in the church.

I can defend the first point unequivocally. The second one, I know I'm getting closer to my opinion, but I do think that is what we need today. We do need a man who can keep his chin up in the pulpit, who is saying this person-to-person, person-to-people. He's got mastery of material because he doesn't have to read it. I would assume the guy you're talking about, he had his nose down the whole time reading it. Am I right?

Steven: Pretty much, yes, sir. To me, it's limiting the movement of the spirit. I'm old school; I'm 61. I got baptized at 40 after 40 years out in the absolutely darkest, lowest places. I'm old school; I like to read commentaries, I study, I read it over and over, I carry a pad around with me when I'm in sermon prep. I pray over it.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: Steven, let me stop you, though. I don't want to use those arguments against this guy because those arguments, to me, are stylistic. I know you like that. I've got guys that say that to me, and they like it with a fountain pen and a yellow pad, and they don't want to prepare it on a computer. All of that falls flat to me. What I need is a man who knows the word and can preach the word.

I teach homiletics, I've written a book that Thomas Nelson published on the topic. I feel like I know this arena. I don't want someone, even saying room for the spirit—well, the spirit of God is at work when I'm preparing this. I don't need even to say, "Okay, if I don't have some latitude to kind of have this being made up in part in the pulpit." I want my chin up, but it doesn't mean I haven't really worked out every section of this sermon.

The spirit can work in my study as well as he can work on the platform. I want the argument to be: does this man master this material, does he know what God's word says, and has he thought through what this audience, this congregation, needs in light of this text? Is he on fire to preach it? Those elements are important.

AI writing it for you and you trying your best to memorize it and say it, that's not going to work. Now, back to the thing I want to say to where if someone says, "Well, I can't touch AI then in the process of preaching a sermon." No, I don't think that follows. You may say, "Well, what Pastor Mike's about to say, I disagree with that because I like the yellow tablet and the commentaries and the feel of a book in my hand."

I've got some really good friends and we are really tight, and they say that to me. Yet when I preach in their pulpits, I bring my laptop. They don't identify with any of that, but they know this is all stylistic and preference. Here's the thing: when we went from—and I was all that at one time because I didn't have computers available to us and there was no Bible software—I started like everybody else thinking I need the biggest desk possible because I need as many commentaries laid out as possible.

I had the biggest library on my staff because I was the preacher, so I needed as many books and I needed them in aisles so I could go and get them and lay them out. That was my life. Well, then this thing called Bible software came out. Some people thought, "Oh, that's cheating." In a sense, it was cheating because I could go really quickly by right-clicking on a word and I could look up the Greek word instantaneously. I didn't have to have my English text and my Greek text open.

Then I could click on the Greek word and pull up my lexicon and I could read that lexicon, and then I could right-click and move to the next lexicon. My five lexicons on my shelf I no longer even look at because they're all printed there for me on my computer screen. That saves me so much time.

I'm looking at the latest version right now of my Logos Bible software. They came out with this thing just a month ago or so called the Study Assistant. It is an AI module. What does the Study Assistant do? I'm going to teach tonight in my class at CBI on apologetics. It's the opening class, my opening lecture, and we're going to deal with all the approaches to apologetics: reformed epistemology, presuppositional, classical, evidential.

I threw in there, "Look through my entire library and give me summaries and footnotes of all that my library says about these things and show me where I can find all this." It did all that work in just one prompt, and now I can go and look all that up. That's even better than me finding those books in my library.

AI has a role, but I can tell you this: if I'm going to use AI, I can't use it to shortcut knowing what I'm studying and being able to answer the questions when the class is over. It's the same thing with the sermons. When I preach a sermon, there's a lot even in my notes that I left in my notes even though I know I'm not going to preach it in the pulpit, because I'm ready for someone in the lobby or in the front row who asks me about this. I think it's going to raise this question; I better be ready to answer this question.

Your preacher needs to be a scriptural tour guide and he better know the word and he better know everything related to that sermon. An AI sermon that's just a script is never going to get him there. That's my answer, Steven. I don't want to get into the style and the feel of a book in my hand. It's got to be about: do you know the word and are you preaching it because you've mastered it and you've studied to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who doesn't need to be ashamed? That's really what this is about.

Steven: Sounds great. Thank you very much.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: I would confront him, I really would. I would confront him carefully because who knows, really? Maybe he's just a really good preacher and he created all that and used AI only to say, "Where can I find the best books on this?" and "Can you summarize what that article says?" and "Find me some theological journals that address this." He's just found the best sources, and AI can help us with that.

Steven: Last thing: is there any kind of literature out there about this? Surely somebody's written about this.

Pastor Mike Fabarez: That's a really good question, and I would use AI to find what's written about it because it will tell you. That is the beauty of AI. AI is a wonderful tool. I realize I can just take a picture of something in my house and say, "What thing do I need to fix this?" and it is super helpful. It can be the same in a lot of spiritual or theological issues as well, like "Who are the five best conservative evangelical authors that have written books on this topic?" I just need to make sure I don't use it to shortcut my brain.

Dave Drewie: Today's program was a special edition of Ask Pastor Mike Live right here on Focal Point. Bring your own question to Pastor Mike. Ask Pastor Mike Live airs every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at 1:00 PM Central. Head to AskPastorMike.live for everything you need to call in and be part of the program. Every lesson from Pastor Mike is available anytime at FocalPointRadio.org.

And if you want this full teaching library in your pocket, the free Focal Point app puts it there wherever you go. This ministry runs on the support of listeners who believe this kind of teaching is worth keeping on the air. Whether you give once or sign on as a monthly Focal Point partner, your generosity is what makes every broadcast possible. To give today, call 888-320-5885 or go online to FocalPointRadio.org.

You can also send your donation by mail by writing to Focal Point, Post Office Box 2850, Laguna Hills, California 92654. And right now, every gift comes with our thanks in the form of this month's featured book, "Songs of the Sun" by Daniel Stevens. This is a theological and devotional reading of the Psalms. Stevens moves through the Psalms to show how each one is pointing to Jesus. If this is your first time reaching out to Focal Point, Pastor Mike's booklet, "Do the Right Thing," is waiting for you at no charge. Get your copy by saying hello online at FocalPointRadio.org or just by calling 888-320-5885. Well, I'm Dave Drewie, inviting you back for more from Pastor Mike Fabarez next time here on Focal Point.

Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.