Focal Point

Dave Druey: Welcome to Focal Point. I'm Dave Druey, and this is Ask Pastor Mike Live, where we bring you some of the most powerful exchanges from Pastor Mike Fabarez's weekly call-in broadcast. Today's questions get right to the heart of things: a mother wanting to know exactly where her son is 11 years after losing him, whether a so-called second baptism in the Holy Spirit is something every believer needs after salvation, and whether Malachi's promises about tithing still hold for a struggling business owner today. Pastor Mike doesn't shy away from any of it. Let's get started. Vicky, you're on there with Pastor Mike. How can I help?

Vicky: Hey Mike. My question is this: First Thessalonians talks about how the dead in Christ will rise first within the rapture time and then we'll all be caught up. I have a son I lost in a car accident 11 years ago. I know he knows the Lord, and it says when we die, to be absent from the body is to be face-to-face with the Lord. Can you help me understand what that is talking about?

Mike Fabarez: Please understand there are two parts to who we are. There is an immaterial part, which is who we truly are, our consciousness. Your son as a Christian, that is his spirit. Just like Jesus commended his spirit to his Father on the cross, his body went into a grave, into that tomb.

So he is present with the Lord, and he said to that man on the cross who was also going to leave his body on a cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Off they go in their spirit, conscious, but their bodies stay on earth. If Christ's body and this thief's body stayed there on the planet—of course they didn't, at least Christ's body was resurrected—but let's just say they stayed there. When Christ comes back to get his church, their bodies get reunited with the spirits when Christ is dispatched to get his church.

That is the point. Your son, my grandpa, everyone we know who is a Christian, they get their bodies back. That is the totality of what God has planned for us. We are not planned to be disembodied spirits; we are planned to be embodied. That's God's plan for all of us. As it says in Second Corinthians 5, we are not planned to be naked, as Paul put it, but to be in an eternal home, a home that is made by God. That's going to happen at the point of the rapture when Christ is dispatched to get us as the last generation. Let's say it's us, that's hopeful speaking, but maybe it's the next generation. That's when everyone gets their bodies back. According to First Corinthians 15, the last generation doesn't have to go through the separation of the body, but they get changed instantaneously.

Vicky: Correct. If the rapture happens tomorrow or whatever, in the case of dismembered bodies or cremation, Elijah talks about the bones being brought together, the sinews and the muscles. It doesn't matter how you left this earth or what condition you are in? Obviously, people that have been in fires, they are bones if there is even that.

Mike Fabarez: That doesn't matter. God can do anything. He can put them back together. Our DNA, even learning about that of late here in human history, we understand there is a whole genetic code that tells everything about the human genome. It tells us how a body is all constructed and it's all there.

I know it's got errors in it in terms of problems, but all those problems are going to be fixed. Everything that makes up the human being is going to be restored from that. God knows each individual one, even if every last cell is gone and there is no DNA from every human being. God is going to know where those are; they are cataloged somewhere in God's brain, and they are all going to be done and they are all going to be remade. God is going to reconstruct every last fingernail, toenail, eyelash, and earlobe of every human being into a physical body.

Vicky: I guess that's so hard to think of because if I pass away now, the rapture happens and I see Jesus. Obviously, we know Jesus had his body, but my son did not. Yet, I will know him, so I guess it's just a spiritual body. That's the hard thing to understand. We live in this physical life, so what does that mean? A new body or being with the Lord? He is in some kind of body, right?

Mike Fabarez: There is not a body now, though. I would argue that there is no body now. You are found naked now, so disembodied. It's kind of like in your dream last night. There is no body in your dreams; you are just dreaming and thinking.

But then you will have a body. Jesus has a real body when he sits and has breakfast by the Sea of Galilee with Peter in John 21. He has a real tongue and real teeth. He eats a real piece of fish, broiled fish. You and I and your son are going to eat real food in the Kingdom of God in the eternal state. We're going to have real bodies. We'll be able to have a real hug and we'll hear real things through our ears and breathe real air through our nose.

All that's real, and it's going to happen in real time, real time and space, physically real. God is going to make it all real, and it's not going to be see-through. It's not going to be mystical or transparent. It's going to be real, very real. That's the way God designed us to be. That's how he designed Adam and Eve, and it's how he designed you and me. That's the way he's designed our future bodies to be, only perfect without all the sin and all the problems, diseases, and sicknesses. It's going to be perfect.

Vicky: Okay. I think about my son, Brandon, or even Paul or the ones that went before us. They're waiting for that body?

Mike Fabarez: Correct. They are waiting for that. Even in the Book of Revelation, it talks about the saints under the altar saying, "How long? How long is this going to go on?" I do think there is an anticipation for the fulfillment of God's plan, and they're going to want it to be finished. We're not designed to be naked; we're designed to be clothed in our eternal bodies. I think we're going to want that. Not that it's going to be terrible. We're going to be comforted. It'll be okay. To be with the Lord is going to be fine; it'll be better than to be here in our bodies away from the Lord. It'll be better to be with the Lord, but it'll be even better when we'll be back in our bodies in a perfect place. So we look forward to that, Vicky.

Vicky: When it talks about the graves opening and they come out, that's literal, right?

Mike Fabarez: It is literal. Think about it. Jesus' body literally was gone from the tomb. That is the prototype of the resurrection. It wasn't like God just made a new body. That's why I don't like that phrase "new body." It was a remade body, a remanufactured body, but it was taken from what was old. That body that was beaten and bruised and died on the cross was laid in that tomb, but it was no longer there. When they went to find it, the body was not there. There was just a bunch of wrappings there.

Whatever is left of the body, whether it was a bunch of ashes in an urn or whether it's a bunch of bones in a coffin, or whether it is just whatever the bottom of the sea eaten by fish and it's been reprocessed a million times, whatever is left of it, God is going to take whatever is left and he's going to remake it. Even if it's millennia ago, maybe there's nothing but atoms that are all over the universe. God is going to reassemble it. God knows where every last atom of every last person was, and he's going to reassemble it all.

Vicky: Incredible. That's good to know. I don't know how to understand it with my tiny brain. I know the rapture happens in the twinkling of an eye and that reconstruction happens before that, whether we're going to see it or they're just going to be there when we appear beforehand.

Mike Fabarez: It is amazing. Vicky, thanks for the call. Let's go to Monty. Monty, you're on the air with Pastor Mike Fabarez. How can I help?

Monty: Hi, Mike. God bless you. I have one simple question. There have been people come to the church that would say, "Now that you've been saved, you need to be baptized into the Holy Spirit." I cannot recall that in the Bible, so I always rejected it. I just want to know your take on that.

Mike Fabarez: The reason they say that is because in the Book of Acts, there is a very unique situation where you have the concern of the Jews wondering how in the world we can have a person like Cornelius, a Roman, being saved and getting the same gift of salvation that the Jews got. Or over there, the Ephesians getting the same gift that we got.

There was this delay by God's plan of this gift that shows the presence of God's Spirit in their life. They were said to express that miraculous sign that was given in Acts chapter 2. God showed them and proved to them that they are also given the full measure of God's indwelling Spirit that was promised in the New Covenant promise of Jeremiah 31, which they received in Acts chapter 2. It was a miraculous sign of being able to speak in languages they hadn't learned.

That gift from Acts 2 was also showing up in the Book of Acts in Cornelius's case in the middle of Acts chapter 10 and then Acts chapter 19. Those situations had led people to say it looks like they already knew about Christ, but then this came after. We'll just say baptism by the Spirit brings this speaking in tongues, and so maybe you become a Christian then later in your Christian life you have this encounter with the Holy Spirit.

Then you have this expression of speaking in tongues and everyone needs to go through that so that you can adequately worship and work and witness for the Lord. I am saying no, you've taken a historical situation where the Jews were very concerned about how in the world the Gentiles are being able to be included with the Jews in the promise of Abraham being blessed with the Messiah's benefits. They're using this sign that was trying to convince them of that. How are you making that the normative experience? According to Romans 8, if you don't have the Spirit of God, you're not even a son of God.

This is a mistake in the hermeneutic of the Book of Acts. It only happened a few times in the Book of Acts. It was for a particular purpose and they've built an entire second blessing theology on it. Unfortunately, it's a misunderstanding of what's going on in the Book of Acts and it's led to a lot of false teaching about a second blessing and the sign of tongues, which they believe is an ecstatic utterance that everyone should have. Of course, First Corinthians chapter 12 says not everyone has it. It can't be what they say it is. It's a misreading of the Book of Acts.

Monty: So it's all right then that I rejected it?

Mike Fabarez: Yes, absolutely. You should reject it. Acts 2, 10, and 19 are where it happens. Acts 2 is when it happened to the Jews at Pentecost, and they have this miraculous sign. A sign is a sign, and that means it's clearly miraculous. They learned languages they hadn't studied. Then it happens in chapter 10 to Cornelius and then it happens again in chapter 19. All of those are to prove the reality, especially to the Jews because the Jews were there, that these Asians were hearing the same gift that they had there in Acts chapter 2.

We are not to build a theology of being baptized by the Holy Spirit after conversion. There's no theology that squares with the Bible. You have all of the Spirit from the moment of your conversion. God's Spirit doesn't come to you in stages. Obviously, our fruit comes in stages and we bear fruit in different quantities throughout our Christian life and sanctification is progressive, but this is not a stage.

Monty: There is only one Pentecost.

Mike Fabarez: There's only one Pentecost. You become a Christian at the beginning of your Christian life and that's it. You're either in or you're out.

Monty: All right. Thank you very much.

Dave Druey: All right, Monty. Thanks for the call. It's a great question. Let's go to Kevin. Kevin, you're on the air with Pastor Mike Fabarez. How can I help?

Kevin: Yes, I was just curious. In the Book of Malachi, it talks about financial promises for tithing. I was wondering if that is for the Jews only back then, and if there is anything similar to the New Testament age that we're in?

Mike Fabarez: Definitely the promise itself as it's set there in Malachi is specifically for Israel. That is true, but the principle is definitely repeated in Second Corinthians chapter 9. It's a broader principle in Second Corinthians chapter 9.

Let me take you back in the Book of Malachi and just give you the context. Here's the problem in Malachi: when they resettled after the Babylonian exile, the problem was that there were people that were so anxious to rebuild their own homes, they weren't giving the way they should have to rebuild the temple. As some of the other prophets had said, you're living in your paneled homes and the worship center is not being repaired the way it should and rebuilt the way it should. That's why you're coming home with your money and I've drilled holes in your purses and your wallets and your money's not lasting; I'm blowing away your money.

So you need to be giving faithfully. You're not giving your full tithe, which of course is a tenth and it's part of the tax that God has taxed the people to give. They gave two tithes every year, twenty percent, and then they gave a third tithe every third year. You had several tithes that were built into the Mosaic Law.

There are no tithes in the New Testament because we're not a nation that we're supposed to be collecting tithes from our people; they're not our citizens. In the New Testament, we're a church, but every person that's a part of the church should be giving to their church. That's required in the New Testament. First Corinthians chapter 9 says that.

But the principle of give and God will give back, you can see that in the Proverbs: Honor the Lord with your wealth and the principle of refreshing others with your wealth is certainly discussed repeatedly as God loves to refresh those who refresh others. Then in Second Corinthians chapter 9, starting in verse 6, he does say if you're going to sow sparingly, if you're kind of a cheapskate and you give but you give just a little bit, then you're going to sow sparingly. But if you reap bountifully or you sow bountifully, you're going to reap bountifully.

It's not just material things in the context. He's talking here about reaping this harvest of righteousness. But it includes, as it goes on to say here, you'll be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God.

Here's what I like to say to my church: it's like you will be able to go the extra mile, that may be energy; stay the extra hour, that might be time; and give the extra dollar. If God is going to enrich you in every way to be generous in every way, then I'm going to say he may repay you with energy, with efficiency, or with finances to be a more generous person even still. God will make generous people capable of being even more generous.

Yes, the principle is repeated in the New Testament. But there's no repeating of the tithe because there's no tenths, there's no percentages ever repeated in the New Testament because we're not a nation. We're not giving to a nation. Our nations are already collecting our taxes. We're a church, and the church we're supposed to give to, but there's no percentage given. We're just told to give a free-will offering.

What do you give? It's up to you what you give, but you've got to give to your church according to First Corinthians 9 because they feed you spiritually; you're supposed to give materially to them. You should be giving to people horizontally, to people around you when you see needs according to First John chapter 3. If you see your brother in need, you shouldn't close your compassion, your heart toward them, but you ought to meet their need.

You give in two ways in the New Testament: you give to your church and you should decide how to give and you should give in a way that is bountiful. You should give whatever percentage, decide, and yes, I think God will equip you to be generous in every way. It could be efficiency, it could be energy, and it could be more money.

But it's not so that you can be rich. That's where the prosperity preachers have said you want to be rich, give more money to this ministry. That is not the promise of the New Testament. The promise of the New Testament is if you give generously to God, God will make sure that you're equipped to continue to be generous. God loves to enrich people in all kinds of ways to be generous. So the principle is repeated. If you're starting to quote Malachi, as long as you know the New Testament context, I guess you could quote that and say you can test God in this, but you've got to test God in this from a New Testament perspective and know there's parallels to the Malachi passage.

Kevin: I was curious because I do give and I have my own business and I just got whacked and lost half of my income here in the last month and a half. I was kind of curious about that because I thought I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, but maybe I'm not doing something right or maybe it's just a big test. It's been kind of confusing.

Mike Fabarez: Anytime something like that happens, whether it's your finances or your physical health, you've got to pray Psalm 139 verses 23 and 24. That is to say to God, when you get off the call or tonight when you're free, "God, search me, know my heart, try me, know my thoughts, see if there's any grievous way in me and then lead me in the everlasting way."

If he says to you in your conscience that there's no problem here, "Kevin, I'm just putting you through a trial," then prove to God that you can handle this trial because the trial's going to make you stronger, going to teach you endurance, it's going to do something. But maybe there is something. Maybe there's something in your business that God is trying to point out that you're doing you shouldn't do, maybe someone you're dealing with you shouldn't be dealing with. Maybe he's trying to get your attention like Hebrews chapter 12 says and he's disciplining you in some way.

But maybe he's not. You do need to give him the chance to point it out. God is a good God, he's a good Father, and when he does bring discipline to our lives, there's nothing he wants more than to point it out to us. We've got to slow down enough in prayer and be quiet for at least a few minutes in silence and say, "God, is there anything? Is there anything?" He'll bring it to mind if there's something.

If not, you can get up from prayer and start saying, "Okay, it's a test." You can know it's a test. If it's a test, then here's what happens in a test: you can keep saying what Job said at the beginning at least, and that is, "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." I'm going to trust him even when times are hard and I'm going to continue to do the right thing even when times are hard and God is going to make you a stronger Christian, Kevin. That's a good thing and you will come out of this stronger and you will know, you won't be scratching your head, you'll know that this is a test. You need to get past the questioning of what this is, and I just think that's going to take you by the end of today. You can be done wondering about it because God is in no way going to hide this from you.

Dave Druey: Those were real questions from real listeners on Ask Pastor Mike Live. Pastor Mike's call-in broadcast airs every Tuesday through Thursday at 1:00 p.m. Central. The lines are open every week, and you're welcome to be part of it. Get the call-in number and everything else you need online at askpastormike.live or catch up anytime on YouTube by searching for Ask Pastor Mike. For more of Pastor Mike's regular Bible teaching programs, head to focalpointradio.org or grab the free Focal Point app to get the whole library in your pocket.

This month, Pastor Mike wants to put a challenging book in your hands: "Making a Difference" by R.C. Sproul. Living out our faith isn't meant to stop at the church doors. Sproul makes a compelling case for what it looks like to carry biblical conviction into culture, into the workplace, into every corner of everyday life. It's a clear-eyed look at what it actually costs to live out your convictions in a culture pulling the other direction, making it a powerful tool for any believer wanting to take a stand and make an impact in today's world. Request your copy of "Making a Difference" when you give to Focal Point today. Call 888-320-5885 or give online at focalpointradio.org.

If you'd rather mail your gift, write to us at Focal Point, P.O. Box 2850, Laguna Hills, California, 92654. Every gift keeps this ministry on the air and in your hands. The best way to give is as a Focal Point partner, a monthly commitment that keeps the teaching coming for you and for the next caller who's still working through their own hard question. Become a partner today at focalpointradio.org or by calling 888-320-5885. Reaching out for the first time? We'd love to send you a free copy of Pastor Mike's booklet on living counter to the culture around us called "Battling Sin." Just get in touch at focalpointradio.org. I'm Dave Druey. Thanks for spending this time with us. Join us again next time for more from Pastor Mike Fabarez here on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.