FamilyLife Blended®

Arlene Pellicane: If you have a child who is already feeling left out because they are not on social media and they don't have a phone, you give them a phone to solve this problem. Guess what happens? Now they get to check the phone constantly and now they really get to see how left out they really are.

Or they are trying always to get attention on this device, they're not getting the attention they want, and now they're doing negative things to get some kind of attention. You realize this socially did not solve this problem at all.

Ron L. Deal: Welcome to the FamilyLife Blended® podcast. I'm Ron Deal. We help blended families and those who love them pursue the relationships that matter most. Sometimes you have to pursue what matters most for your marriage on a cruise. That's right, Nan and I just disembarked from the FamilyLife marriage cruise.

It was just us and 5,200 of our closest friends on the Love Like You Mean It annual cruise. This is the only full ship Christian marriage cruise. If you don't know anything about this, you got to know about this. This is the only full ship — we take over the entire boat — Christian marriage cruise and the only one that includes blended family training on board, which we do every year.

We would love to have you join us next year. Cabins are on sale right now for 2027. Just visit the show notes and we will get you connected to that great event. If you have children or grandchildren, stay with me. We have a very important conversation about helping kids manage the screens in their lives. Hang on for that, we're going to get there in just a minute.

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My good friend Arlene Pellicane is a speaker, host of the Happy Home podcast, which is just a happy little fun podcast. She's author of several books, including Parents Rising, Making Marriage Easier, and the book that we're going to be talking about today, Screen Kids, which she co-authored with Dr. Gary Chapman.

Arlene has been featured in a variety of media outlets. She's a spokesperson for the National Marriage Week which, by the way, Nan and I just appeared on their annual livestream a couple of weeks ago. She and her husband James have been married for 26 years and they live in San Diego. Arlene, it's so good to have you here. Welcome to the podcast.

Arlene Pellicane: So fun to be here. Thank you so much, Ron. I am blessed because I get to write books, which I really like, I get to speak to people, which I really like, and I get to podcast, which I really like. So those are basically my three-legged stool of what I like to do.

In terms of topics, we're talking about marriage, how can we make this easier, how can we make our marriages work better? And then with kids, technology is such a big thing both for parenting and also in your marriage. How can we manage this tech that's just becoming bigger and bigger and bigger in our lives?

So those are the sweet spots of what I like to talk about. And I like to encourage people, not to beat them down, but to encourage them. And to encourage is also putting courage in someone's soul to say, wait a minute, if I see something wrong that's happening, I have the power by God to change it. So trying to help people see complex problems don't always require complex solutions.

Ron L. Deal: That's well said. Speaking of big tech, not long ago I was listening to a podcast about AI and the experts being interviewed were saying that we're making the same mistakes with AI that we did when social media first came out. We're beginning to understand the repercussions of social media.

I'm sure you may have some thoughts about that as well. All I could think as I was listening to these people talk about AI was number one, God help us, please help us navigate through this. And the second thing I kept thinking is just we need to teach our children self-control about all of this stuff.

Arlene Pellicane: The self-control, you cannot expect, oh child of mine, grandchild of mine, you're five years old, why are you not showing self-control? And also for a 15-year-old with no prefrontal cortex, no executive decision-maker that's formed, to say, oh 15-year-old, why can't you turn that off?

So then it falls on us as parents and grandparents to go, oh, we are the ones that are supposed to help them with this. So that is a big piece of the puzzle. I'm holding Screen Kids, great book, very practical, thank you for writing that. You wrote it just a few years ago, but the world keeps getting more and more deeply entrenched in screens and embedded in screen time.

Ron L. Deal: I think parents know they're up against this massive machine, this big animal. Where do we start?

Arlene Pellicane: I think if you can start as a parent, grandparent, think about what is this doing to my child's brain and what is this doing to my child's soul? If you can really think in those terms. So that's one, just ask questions. Be looking at how is this impacting the brain development? What's going on in my child's soul because of this?

And then really at the same time realize we're going to have to do this differently. Because if we do status quo, we do like everyone else is doing, I think the latest stat I saw was that half of two to four-year-olds have their own iPad or their own phone. And we can realize why that is. Because it's like Mommy, let me use it, Grammy, let me use it, and after a while you're just like, please have your own and stop talking to me.

Two-thirds of five to eight-year-olds have their own iPad or their own phone. I don't think I got my own phone until I was in my 30s. My own smartphone, and now you've got a five-year-old with a phone that could have sent the moon module up, that has so much power, it's crazy.

So for us to realize, okay, wait a minute, if we're going to do things differently, get a different result. The outcomes now are, oh look, two out of three college students are lonely. They did a survey of 33,000 college students. And you remember Ron, when you were in college, everyone is your age, you're clumped in by your major. So it's like you're meeting people with similar interests.

On your floor you have tons of people to meet like of any time in your life, that's the time to make friends. Because we all know after we graduate from college it's like, oh my goodness, how in the world do we make a friend now if we don't like the three people we sit next to at work? We're done, we're toast. So that stuns me, that two out of three college students say they're lonely when they have this chance to meet people.

Ron L. Deal: Not long ago we did a podcast on teenagers and loneliness, and it's absolutely tied to social media. It's absolutely tied to I can get my dopamine hits right here right now, just looking into my phone at fun stuff that makes me giggle or laugh or keeping up with friends or whatever. I don't have to actually engage another person.

I really think a lot of college students are going and they're lonely because they don't have the social skills to start a conversation with their roommate or the person across the hall. They don't even know where to begin because they've spent so much time absorbed in screens.

Let me back up because I'm just spilling over. I'm a granddad, I've got a 14-month-old grandson, 14-month-old grandson. Man, is it fun to have FaceTime conversations with him. But every time we do that, I think I sure hope my son and my daughter-in-law don't give him this phone. Don't give him a smartphone. Fine, you guys hold it, let us talk to our grandson, but don't give him one of these things. And you're saying from two to four they're starting, half are starting to have their own device.

Arlene Pellicane: Let me speak into a bit of relief to you, because the American Academy of Pediatrics, which have not been great on this to be honest, because they have that tied to big tech. So they used to say two hours or less for kids five and over, but now they say just use limits. So I kind of feel like they're not doing a great job with that.

But they do say FaceTiming, even with babies, is really good because it's not them just watching a static video. This is you're talking and that's very different. So we can breathe a sigh of relief as parents and grandparents, using the phone for FaceTime is awesome and do that.

But you're right, have that be the one use for the phone for your little kids and then if you're not FaceTiming, then that goes away and that is no longer something that's for you. And that is a big thing that I really want parents to be able to see and realize that you can have hard now and easy later.

For instance, you can delay the device now and instead read books and take walks and go grocery shopping with no devices needed. And so maybe that's hard at first because it seems so easy just to give this kid an iPad. But guess what? Now it's easy, they go to school, look, they know how to read. They meet a person, wow, you can actually talk to this person.

So I promise you will get easy later. This works as a teenager. If you have to do the hard thing of, oh we've let this go, let's start taking away this video game that's really violent that's kind of taken over, it's hard at the moment, but then later that's going to be better and easier for that child versus what most of us do because we're short-term. We do easy now. Oh, let's just give them the device because it'll keep them quiet, it'll keep them out of our hair. Let's just give them the device. It's easy, but then later your life is wow, the social skills aren't there, the independence isn't there, the drive isn't there because they've just wanted to play.

Ron L. Deal: We're going to get into some practical guidelines for parents in a few minutes about their kids and screens. But first, I want to just start by talking about us. All right, I think for a lot of us parents, our habits are not good when it comes to screens. And we use the screen to give our kids something to do so they're not bothering us.

I just sit and watch. I watch people in public, I watch families, I watch interaction with parents and kids. And I know it's so easy. First of all, parents, we don't need a lot of guilt here. We all need moments where we need a break. And it's great for our kids, we used to have TV time. That's what it was when my kids were growing up. Like how much TV time do they have?

I understand that, I'm not talking about you need a break. I'm talking about on a regular basis throughout the day, there's a daily dose of I'm not engaging my child in reading a book to them, for example, the little ones, all those kinds of things, or playing a game with them. I'm giving them this pacifier called iPad or my phone and I don't have to do anything anymore as a parent. It's now managing their time and I'm scot-free. Maybe I get to scroll Instagram a little bit and see what's going on. Let's start with us for a minute. What do we need to be thinking about as parents as it comes to our example and how we're managing our screen?

Arlene Pellicane: And let's be honest Ron, I kind of feel like this is why we don't see a lot of changes with children, because we think well, I don't want to have to change myself. So if I have to change you and help you, that means I have to spend time training you, doing things with you. And let's be clear, we're not talking about like, oh now you need to stare at your child for three hours. No.

But you do need to have some time, some pocket. So a mealtime that's face-to-face, no screens. A bedtime story, if they're of that age that you can do that, that's a rhythm and a habit that you can spend 10 minutes at the end of your day with no screens with your child reading to them. That when you see your child act out, that that's your chance to train them, how could they have responded in that moment versus oh my goodness, my child is acting out, here's the device so I don't have to deal with this little tantrum.

So it's reclaiming parenthood. And what does parenthood do? It grows us up. But sometimes we're like, we want to be entertained and we are living in a culture that is screaming at us. You deserve a break. You should have an easy life. It's really your happiness that is most important. If your family is demanding too much of you, that's on them, you are not a victim of your family. That's the water that we're drinking.

And we need to rise up in that and say, wait a minute, Deuteronomy is telling us we have a responsibility to impress on our kids when they get up, when they lie down, when we're walking, that the love of God, to love the Lord your God. Well, how in the world are we going to do that if all of us are just sitting on our devices?

So a lot of it is a personal call of repentance, like God, I haven't been showing up how I want to show up or how I used to show up as a parent because we have been lulled in. And remember the same metrics that are addicting your kids, those same metrics are working on you. There's a reason why the news is so like, you have to see this or what are you going to miss? Or it's so bad and so now you're angry and you're mad. Because they want you to have those emotions because it engages you.

So to realize at the end of the day when my kids graduate out of my home, it's not going to matter how much I looked at the news or how many things I bought on Amazon, it's going to matter what did I deposit into my child's life that helps them function well as a human being? So it is a recall to parenting and just ask the question, if my child grew up to use technology just like me, would I be happy?

And they did a survey of 6,000 kids and they asked them from around the world what's your parents' worst habit? And the worst habit was being on the phone too much, with kids in Brazil reporting the highest number, 87% of them saying my parent is on the phone too much. It is an international problem. Blended family, first family, any kind of family.

Ron L. Deal: I've read the very same thing. The same frustration that parents will report about I'm trying to have a conversation with my kid, can't get them off their phones. Kids will say about their parents. And one form or another, one screen or another. That is so very good. And you know, I can also see a bit of a conflict going on here between the generations. I mean, I imagine a grandparent listening to us right now going, yes, I've been watching my adult child hand the device over to their kid. And I want to read the kid a book or I want and I'm trying to encourage them to read their child a book, but I can't seem to get this screen out of the way. And so here's a grandparent having an agenda conflict with their adult child about that or a son or daughter-in-law about it. Delicate stuff, right?

Arlene Pellicane: Totally. And we have a book, Dr. Gary Chapman and myself, Grandparenting Screen Kids, that will help you. It's a companion, it's not the same stuff, it's a companion to Screen Kids because so many grandparents are either watching their kids a lot, like oh every Tuesday and Thursday we're grandma and grandpa's, or even full time or even just the short visits, but they're seeing wow, this technology is really taking over.

So I lean always on my friend Jim Burns, right, the doing life with your adult kids, that any unsolicited advice feels like criticism. So when we as grandparents we say, why are you doing this, you shouldn't do that, it's probably not going to go well. But if you in your home with the grandkids have a totally different way of doing things that is much more interactive, then your adult kids will notice that and say wow, we should send them to grandma and grandpa's more often because they're doing a good job over there. And they'll hopefully get the picture.

Ron L. Deal: You open your book Screen Kids with some information about screens and the brain. What do we need to know?

Arlene Pellicane: My goodness, right? And this is something to go, oh wait a minute, I didn't realize that. I like to use these terms digital candy and digital vegetables. So in the same way we understand physical food that's good and not good for us and a little candy's okay but you can't have candy all day, and it's the same things with the online things.

There are some things that are good for the brain. Even Mr. Rogers, I mean think of it, was one camera, one man, just talking to you. So just watch five minutes of that and you'll see instantly what is different in the brain from a child watching Mr. Rogers and a child watching SpongeBob. It changes all the time in SpongeBob. Every few seconds it's a new camera, it's a new color, it's a new design, there are new sounds, the complete opposite of Mr. Rogers.

So what's happening in the brain is we're training the brain of a child to desire what's that next quick thing? And when they're reading a book in school or for life or the Bible, they're like well, this is super boring, it's just a page with words on it because their brain has been trained to look for that next dopamine hit, look for that next excitement. And when it doesn't happen, they disengage.

So this is huge because so much of life, a sunset, a little caterpillar, like all the wonders of childhood, right, that they're like oh, they found a little bug and they're like intrigued that there's little bug. Well, if the brain that they have is used to the big dopamine dump of a video game, of a modern video, of soon social media and getting the likes and looking at those numbers and that excitement, if they get addicted, pornography, addicted to those big dopamine hits, then they just, whatever comes up comes down. So you have this big up and then you got the big crashing down, and that's where you see the fits and all these things.

And so really taking those things out of your child's life, eliminating those huge spikes in dopamine for their brain, will actually reset their brain and help them to become a more emotionally regulated normal person, the child you remember before the video game, before the phone, before the iPad.

So do think of it as a brain dopamine thing. Also think of it as a prefrontal cortex. That's that front part of the brain that is not mature, they say until 25, but now they say 30 because our kids are so weak in it. And that's the part of the brain that's emotional regulation. Hey, you should calm down and stop yelling at your parents. It can have decision-making. Wow, if I don't study I might get a F and then I might not get to go to college or whatever it is. That part of the brain develops through reading, through quiet, through making decisions, all those things.

It doesn't develop at all when our kids are video gaming because the brain thinks oh my goodness, this kid's in trouble. They're shooting something, they're running, this kid's in trouble. So all the blood flows out of the prefrontal cortex to the core of the body, protecting your child even though they're just sitting in your living room, but their body thinks stress, like I'm in trouble and all the blood comes to support that child. And what happens is you have a really flabby prefrontal cortex because you've never had to control yourself. You've never had to do something you didn't feel like doing.

So this is huge because you can imagine if you have a child who never does anything they don't feel like doing. What kind of citizen, child of God, future spouse, student, employee, right? This is the future child who lives in your basement, who can't quite figure out a way to do life.

So think of it in that brain, I want that regulation to be happening and that's going to happen when they don't have so much stimulation. They are able to make decisions for themselves. Boredom is super good for the brain so they can start to be creative and start to think of solutions and really discover. I think a huge thing we do a disservice we do to our kids and our grandkids, we think like oh we're appeasing them with this technology, but they're never bored to discover what they really like. Are they a mechanic? Are they an artist? Are they a doctor? Do they are they quiet? Are they loud? Do they like to sing? Because they never try anything because they're always just online consuming, and that's really, really bad for their brain.

Ron L. Deal: You don't have to develop an imagination if everything is given to you in terms of what's fun. You don't have to imagine what's fun. To me, that begs this immediate question, the one that you hear parents rattling off about. When do I get them a smartphone? Do you have a sense of what the expectation should be?

Arlene Pellicane: I have an answer for you and you may not like it. So remember delay is always the way. You won't ever find someone that's like, oh I gave the phone to my child and I was like why didn't someone tell me about this sooner? I would have given this phone three years ago if I knew how social and responsible and kind you would become once I give you this phone.

So we do need to debunk these myths that they say they have to have a phone because I have to do well in school. Okay, I'm about to debunk that. I have to have a phone in order to connect to my friends. So if you have a child who is already feeling left out because they are not on social media and they don't have a phone, you give them a phone to solve this problem. Guess what happens? Now they get to check the phone constantly and now they really get to see how left out they really are.

Or they are trying always to get attention on this device, they're not getting the attention they want, and now they're doing negative things to get some kind of attention. You realize this socially did not solve this problem at all. Remember Ron when you and I were in school, we would just have to perform in the hallway. We just, oh how are you, I'm good, I'm cool, whatever, and then you go home and you just relax.

With social media kids have to perform all the time building a brand, getting more followers, saying the right thing so that when they get to school the next day, they're like in the in-crowd. This is like constant management and no kid needs that.

So the argument that you need that for social, no. So I will tell you there's a platinum plan, a gold plan, and a silver plan. This is kind of how I coined this. And please reserve judgment, listeners, until you listen and please don't feel like I'm throwing you under the bus, because I'm not trying to.

The platinum plan is the Pellicane preferred plan and this is a plan that would say no social media, no video games, no smartphone until at least your senior year in high school. So this lets a child develop all these friendships, all these skills, and then get these technological tools.

The gold, I get it, that not a lot of people are going to wait until the senior year in high school. The gold plan is the Jonathan Haidt plan, that is the Anxious Generation, very famous book from the amazing sociologist talking about this and that is until high school. So wait until high school before giving the phone, social media and video games. Because think of it, when a kid is in middle school, they're the most like in-transition, squirrely, crazy, mood swings, adolescent, kind of doing dumb things, and you give them a phone and no wonder it's like wow, I can make nudes on this phone, that's awesome, right? It totally makes sense.

So the gold plan would wait until high school or later. And then what I call the silver plan is maybe you're like, ah my kid already has a phone, my kids had a phone forever, they've been on video games forever, I'm not going to be so radical like this. Gold plan would be putting the good stuff in. So they're doing a National Institute of Health study of 10,000 kids and this is something Grandma could tell you, that what's good for kids is two hours or less of the digital candy. So make sure they're on two hours or less for just the fun stuff. One hour of physical exercise a day. If your kid is not exercising, they have no business just to be sitting around playing video games, because for their body that's not good. And then eight hours of sleep every night. So if your kid's getting up a lot, if they're getting texts in the middle of the night, they're gaming in the middle of the night, obviously that is not good for them.

Ron L. Deal: Screens obviously keep kids up and they're not getting their rest and that has other implications as well. Can you imagine if we went to sleep and every two hours someone tapped you on the shoulder? Look at this, look at this, look at this. That's basically what's happening. That's why your kids are so sleep deprived.

Arlene Pellicane: Actually, I can imagine that because I've had surgery a couple of times in my life and that's what they do in the hospital. They wake you up when you're finally getting some rest and it drives you crazy. And can you imagine people, our poor kids are choosing this. That's a good analogy that if their phone's in there, it's like spending the night in a hospital. I love that.

Ron L. Deal: Bark, Gabb, Pinwheel, there are other phones. And I want people to know that. There are other devices out there. So the other thing that people go is well, if I don't get my kid a phone, he's the only one who doesn't have one and he's the weirdo. Okay, but there's other devices where you can stay in touch, you can keep track of your child, and they don't have access to the internet or social media. Are you an advocate for those kinds of things?

Arlene Pellicane: I am. In fact, I have like the Gabb phone is one that we have used before. I even have a relationship with them. You can use my name Arlene as a promo and you'll get stuff off of your Gabb phone. So I do think a phone that's not a smartphone that does not go to the internet is a great step when your kid is saying well, I want to be in touch with you, I want to be able to take pictures, I want to listen to music, I want to use GPS, I want to text my friends. Then they don't need the internet for that, they just need a phone like that.

And I will tell you, my three children, San Diego, California, public schools, they actually went, two of them went all the way through their senior year without a phone. They did fine in school, there are workarounds, and so you need to know that as a parent. And then my junior currently doesn't have a phone.

Ron L. Deal: I've heard that from a lot of different people, a lot of different experts. It's just hard. I mean, what I want parents and grandparents listening right now going, okay, the Pellicane gold sta— no, what is it? Platinum plan. We want to go for that, but oh my goodness, I'm scared to even think about bringing that to my child or what that means or how will other parents look at us and how will other kids look at my kid and all of those fears that rush to the surface. I get it. I mean, I just want to acknowledge those things are real and you do have to struggle through them.

Arlene Pellicane: You do. And part of it is you being confident in what you're doing, not like apologetic. Definitely apologize in the sense of I'm sorry, child, if you feel really ostracized because you feel left out because of this, I'm super sorry. That's got to be super hard. So yes, we're empathizing, but we present it with confidence.

Look what you're going to get in return for this. Because I've had my kids on my podcast before talking about the advantages they have, the mental health they enjoy. There is zero suicidality in my children because they're not being fed that every day. So we might think wow, we're making our kids be left out, but do we realize what is being pumped on those phones to make them hate their bodies, to make them not want to be Christians, to make them jealous of one another?

It's like pornography, violent video games, the whole thing. So we have to understand okay, yes, that's hard that you're missing that, but really at the end of it all, we'll be really glad that you missed all those things when you were 15, 16, 17.

Ron L. Deal: The isolation of young people today, the sense of anxiety that they carry day in and day out, the FOMO because they know exactly what's happening with whom in real time and I'm not there. On and on it goes, pumping, as you said, stuff into their hearts and minds.

The distrust that they have for authority, there's so many things. And if you watch the documentaries from people who invented social media who are saying I'm not giving my kid a phone until they're 35, I say that in jest, but that's what a lot of them are saying because they know how well it works. They helped design it and now they realize this is an experiment that went bad and we really need to stop and think this through.

Arlene Pellicane: I had my daughter Noel when she was in middle school, she said a girl came up to her, her friend, and said you like you're really lucky. And Noel was like what? And she's like you're not addicted to this like I am and you're really lucky. And she was like wow, that was very mature of that eighth grader to say. And then she was also like wow, like they think that that I'm actually the lucky one because I don't have to spend three hours every day managing this.

Ron L. Deal: I want to ask you about a digital Sabbath, but before we do, I just want to loop back around and say it again to parents listening or watching. Yeah, all this stuff we're talking about, boundaries with your kids and the screens, means you got to have some too. We said it before, but let's say it again. That means you need to put your phone away at night. That means if your kid's not on a phone, you don't need to be sitting over there scrolling available because you've been lost in your digital screen. All of a sudden your kid can't engage you because you're. We got to have the same, set the example and have the same disciplines that we're inviting our children to move toward.

Arlene Pellicane: And let me add this, Ron. It can be so easy, for instance, when we as adults are scrolling when our kid looks at us. That's a signal that says I'm busy, don't bother me. But if we're scrolling and we know our kid is in the room, so we have awareness my child is in the room. We look up from the phone, we can still be using it, but we pivot away from the device, lock eyes with your child. Hey, how you doing?

And now we're signaling, yeah, I'm on my phone, but hey buddy, if you need anything, I'm right here. Like it can be something that little that starts changing the dynamic in your home so that if your child is in the room, you pivot away from the device, ask your child a question and show your child I'm available to you.

Ron L. Deal: You're also signaling importance. You're saying to your child, you're more important than whatever's on my phone, whatever's on this screen right now, you're more important. And to set it down, to put it face down, to keep that eye contact, to ask and engage and keep the dialogue going. And pick up your phone when there's a natural pause in whatever conversation that we have with our kids day in and day out. Those are good opportunities to hop on, check a message or something. Wait until the interaction time is over.

Arlene Pellicane: And if you want to even add a layer to that, if you are together in those same spaces for the whole time, you can say oh okay great, that's great, hey I got to check this message from my boss and then I'll be done with this. So you're actually accountable for whatever it is you're going to do on your phone. Two hours later, exactly.

No, that's good, accountability is good, but you're also communicating the purpose of the disengage and that it's limited. And you're teaching them maybe to do the same as they become an adult.

Ron L. Deal: So, digital Sabbath, what's the idea behind this?

Arlene Pellicane: It is a break. Just the same way the Lord has given us, work six days, take the seventh day off, remember the Sabbath, keep it holy. So God has the Sabbath to rest, but also to remember the Lord your God is your creator, He created in six days. So we're remembering God as our creator.

And in the same way, a family can take a digital Sabbath where it could literally be like on Sundays that you say, hey we're not going to do YouTube today. We're going to remember God as our creator and we're going to spend this time not on YouTube. Or no video games today. Or maybe no screens at all. So you can pick this. You pick what thing are you going to fast from.

There was a family that did this starting Friday night, they would turn off their modem and they wouldn't turn it back on until Monday morning. And they found this was super, super difficult at first, like for weeks, it was like, oh my goodness, we have no idea what to do. And the reason they did it is they felt they were disconnected from their 13-year-old son, like there was nothing kind of keeping them together. So they thought let's try this.

So the first few weeks, even months, were very hard, but by month three, something shifted in them, they started looking forward to the weekend because it's like oh, that's when we all can disengage, we all start doing these fun things as a family together, we all start doing our hobbies again, and it was like super life-giving.

So just know that when you do a Sabbath, whether it's for a day, whether it's a Thursday night, whether it's a weekend, maybe you take a whole week, two weeks, three weeks, one month off of Instagram, whatever it is, you pick it, know at the beginning it's going to be difficult and you'll want to give up, but if you stick with it, you're going to reap the benefits of whoa, we feel calmer, we feel more connected to each other, we're less enslaved to the device, to the game, to the social media.

And it really works when everyone does it. So it's not just like brother and sister are fasting from YouTube and social media and video games, but Mom's totally like scrolling Instagram and Dad's been watching sports all day on his phone. So it really works when the whole family decides to do something together, and it gives the kids then the buy-in of like wow, my parents are doing it too.

Ron L. Deal: And of course, when there's buy-in from kids it's a lot easier. But let me just say to parents, we're the ones who are called to lead, and so if you're leading in this direction, you're going to have weeping and gnashing of teeth coming out of one of the children, I guarantee it.

Arlene Pellicane: That's such a good word, because we like oh this is great, we're going to have these changes, and we need to disclose there they're going to be mad, they're going to be upset, they're going to say you are already the strictest parent. And now you're even stricter? Like I already have the least, and now you're telling me what I have, you're going to limit it? So you just be ready for all that picture in your mind, door slamming, they're not going to talk to you for a week, just be ready so that when all that happens, you're ready for it and you won't change your mind.

Ron L. Deal: I've often said you know you're doing the right thing sometimes when the stress in your kids goes up, when the anxiety or the fallout of their reactivity toward us and decisions that we make when it goes up, sometimes that means we're actually onto something. But we do need to be gentle. I mean, come into this thing kind of slide in, start small, maybe grow it a little bit. But the point is you're putting some self-discipline into everybody's screen time and you're just inviting them to be creative in new and different ways.

Arlene Pellicane: And kind of when you're feeling that oh man, am I doing this right? My kid is so mad at me because I limited their video game or took it away. Think of what my daughter Noel said when she was about a senior in high school. She was like, Mom, why does your generation just let my generation kind of go to pot? Why don't you guys do something?

So just keep that in the back of your mind, that someday my child will say thank you, at least Mom, Dad, you tried. Mom, Dad, you tried to detox me from this game or from the social media, you tried to give me a healthier childhood, and there will come a time where they will acknowledge that.

Ron L. Deal: Let's talk a little bit about other homes because our audience frequently have children that are moving between their home and another home. Single parent, blended families, that's very common. And so here you have standards, here you have you're taking a little Sabbath every now and then, you got your kid a Gabb phone, but they don't have all the other stuff. But the other household loads them up, doesn't seem to have any boundaries around any of this and doesn't care. Let's just wrestle with that a little bit.

Arlene Pellicane: It's so that it is so hard because you have worked so hard and then it's unraveled in a weekend and you have to come back and do it all over again and it's just this cycle and that is so, so hard. So our hearts just go out to you because it's hard enough if both parents agree. It's already hard enough if both parents agree. And of course, whoever's the stricter parent is going to be the bad parent and whoever's the more lenient parent, they're the one well this Mom or Dad is amazing, they let me do this. And of course, the good parent, they like giving all the stuff because now they're the favorite parent.

So this is very, very, very hard. And you really have to lean into the okay, they might be getting the short-term gain and the short-term glory the other home, but I'm pulling for the long-term gain and the long-term glory of I will not give up. As long as you're in my home, these are the limits that I will have. And do your best to really champion your child's hobbies, like to really try to figure out oh you're really into race cars, you're into horses, you're into painting, you're into football, like whatever it is they're into when they're home with you, champion them in that so that kid knows my mom, my dad really is for me. Because the narrative will be like this parent hates me because they don't let me do anything.

Ron L. Deal: If you're the no parent and that's all you are is no to this and then you offer nothing instead of that and no engagement from you, yeah, that doesn't fare well at all.

Arlene Pellicane: That's right. So you're the yes parent that brings the best out of this kid, that really tries, that really tries to figure out what makes this kid tick and let me be that for that person. Let me even humble myself. My kids played ultimate frisbee, I'm super unathletic, but I just get out on the field to be with my kid. So you're thinking through like what can I do, where's somewhere I can say yes to my child so they know I'm for them. And maybe if you need to simplify your limits because you're just like oh my goodness I just so try to make it as simple as possible and just keep maybe finding that encouragement in your other friends.

I know I have a moms in prayer group at my house and we have a single mom that comes and it's hard when the kids go to the other home and all that and we're praying for them. So that don't underestimate that power of people praying over you, praying over your children, praying that it would go well.

And whenever you can talk to the other household, to say hey, we're just we're doing this different ways, but we all want the same outcome. So let's maybe agree that we want our kid to be able to have eye contact. Like just start there. Like we all agree that we want our child to be able to give eye contact to a future boss, to a future spouse. Okay? So when they're at your home, can you just let's all do that. Let's all work on eye contact. Hey, look up at me buddy when you talk to me. So try to find those small things that you can start stringing together that are the same in both homes that both parents would want.

Ron L. Deal: I'm going to talk to our audience for a minute and then I'd love to have you react to it, Arlene. Let me just say a few things because I know people listening have they run the gamut in the co-parent relationship. We have highly cooperative co-parenting situations represented in our audience. We have disaster, fiery foe co-parent situations that just can't even come together around anything.

So let me just sort of speak to the continuum there. First of all, let me just say, those of you that feel like you can go for broke on this thing, buy a copy of Screen Kids and send it to your ex. Have the other household just invite them to have a copy and that you're reading it, you're learning a few things and you wanted them to be able to have the same opportunity.

Who knows how the book as an objective voice rather than — see this is what happens with former spouses, you know, it's oh, you trying to tell me what to do again. You've always thought you were the better parent and I was the worst. So now you're sending me this book and you're basically telling me the same thing. Well, you that's a bind, right? But if the book is doing the teaching, then maybe it takes you off the hook with that dynamic and maybe they'll give it some give it a read and be influenced by it.

And who knows? Maybe more than just eye contact becomes something both households are working on as it relates to this. You absolutely can have this be a topic of conversation in your monthly co-parenting team meetings that you have, those opportunities where you're just saying, boy, are we learning? Here's some things. This is the way I suggest you do it. I'm learning some stuff. We're going to adjust how we do some things in our home. Here's why. We want Sally Sue to be the smartest kid in the world and have great social skills and so that we're going to start working on these things.

And you never then add would you please do the same? If you know you can't say those words, then don't say those words. Just say what you're learning and what you're going to do differently. There is an implicit invitation for the other home to think about doing that themselves, but as soon as you make it overt and explicit, it becomes a control issue and you're probably not going to get it. So just don't say that, just speak for yourselves. Here's what we're doing and why.

Who knows how the other home begins to respond and react over time. They might be influenced in some ways. But let me go to the other extreme and say what if you're that worst scenario and literally every time the kids move to the other home back and forth, they have two totally different standards as it relates to screens? You're trying to pull that in your home and the other home just gives them everything 24/7 without any boundaries. What do you do?

You maintain your home. You love your kids as best you know how with the boundaries that you have. And when they come over and they go oh yeah, no screens over here and they give you attitude, you go yeah I know it's hard. And you do that empathy thing that Arlene was demonstrating a minute ago. I know it's so hard for you guys. I know it. I know it's just very different over here. I get it. We're weird. And yeah, I love you. This is why we're doing this. I'll just remind you of that. And this is how we do it. Yep, I get your phone at night. We plug them all in. Nobody keeps their phone in the room.

And you just you just stick to it. But you don't do it with anger or bitterness or yeah and if your dad would cooperate we'd — none of that. None of that because that just makes you the hypocrite. You just maintain lovingly, gentle but persistent and stay after it as best you can. Now that doesn't mean your kids love it or love you for it. It doesn't mean they're filled with gratitude. It just means you get to be the parent. And that's the best you can do. Arlene, I would love for you to react to any of that.

Arlene Pellicane: That's such good such good advice. And let's pretend you said you know what, forget it. I'm going to give into. I'm going to give you all the screens you want because I'm tired of this battle. I want to be the good parent also. Then your children, that's all they learn is like oh, this is must be how life is, that you just kind of get entertained and numbed out your whole life, right? Like they grow up and they leave the house and that's all they know. This is the only way they know how to cope with things, the only thing they know how to do with their free time is just scroll.

What a sad life, right? Our kids are going to graduate out of our homes and all they know how to do is play video games. That's bad. So I just encourage you even though it's hard being the bad parent, you are giving them another way, you're showing them another way so that when they are grown up and adults on their own, they can have a choice. They can choose like oh, I could just sit here and play video games all day or hey, I could get a job or volunteer somewhere or work with animals, they have other options because they've done other things in your home.

So I just give be courageous and just keep doing what you're doing. And I really like what you said earlier about not adding on the so you should do this too and and just that reciprocity. You feel kind of like a heel when you know the other home is really making good strides and then all they're doing is saying what they're doing what's working, then you kind of want to come back and say also well this is what's working in our home. So I really like that, just leave it to the law of reciprocity and don't try to control it. That's such good advice.

Ron L. Deal: Yeah, I always tell co-parents if you know you can't say certain things then don't say certain things. Like life has already taught you that just won't fly. There are other co-parents who go oh yeah, we could have that conversation. You're like great, have it. But if you know you can't have it, then don't go there. Speak for yourselves and let that sit. Sometimes that still has influence even beyond ways that you would have ever expected.

Arlene Pellicane: And I know we have said a lot right during this time and listener I don't want you to be overwhelmed. For those of you with little kids, you might be able to pick up Screen Kids and say hey we're going to plan for this platinum plan. And I promise you if you delay this stuff, guess what? Books are interesting, Play-Doh's interesting, Legos are interesting, they will adapt to what you give them. And it really works.

You're not going to have the headaches because they will actually think normal things are exciting because they don't have this dopamine. So when if you have little kids, you really can say I'm going to plan, pre-decide we're going to delay these things. You can do this.

Ron L. Deal: Hey, I'm trying to sell your book Arlene. So here's my next suggestion to everybody listening. If you've got little ones and you got a group of friends and you're raising your kids together, you got a small group, got a Sunday school class, get the book, read it together, decide as a community we're buying into this and we're going to help each other and at least my kid's going to have one or two other friends who don't also have a phone because we're going to do this thing together and that's going to provide some support for all of us as we try to march through it.

Arlene Pellicane: And if you're listening and it's like it's too late, you know, it's not. So it's you grab the book and you're also looking for the the small changes, even if you have like a high schooler. Starting with the family dinner, starting with charging the phone outside of the room, starting with a Wi-Fi-free vacation, whatever it is, there are positive gains you can have.

Ron L. Deal: That's good stuff. By the way, everything we've talked about, I'm just reflecting on it, is good for marriage. Even couples need to have moments where there's no interruption, the ring or the ding does not distract you from one another, allows you to stay in the moment. There's so many relationships that need to be edited out of screens. Let's come back, last question, full circle: AI. You got any thoughts about God?

Arlene Pellicane: Yes, so many thoughts. No, it's like if we think this is a problem right now, what is this going to be in five or 10 years? This is going to be monumental. So I was watching something from Tristan Harris, and he's the former Google guy, and he was talking about how before with social media it was a race for attention. So they were trying because AI has been used obviously in all this social media, that's why they know what to serve your children because what interests them. So it was a race for attention.

And how he described this next race with AI becoming so much more powerful in the form of a chatbot, in the form of a someone talking to your child, someone knowing your child so well is it's a race for intimacy. That whichever AI can make its way into being the AI, whether Replika, Character AI — so these are AIs that your child will be talking to.

And let's realize that if kids are already on phones using texting to text their real-life friends but they're texting, it's not going to be that different them texting this AI person. And this AI person, it's so creepy, right? Will know everything about your child when everyone else has forgotten that it was your child's birthday, the AI person right in the morning will be like hey, it's your 13th birthday, happy birthday, are you going to go to this park, your favorite park, or are you going to play with Scruffy your dog?

This AI will know everything about your child and will feel so much more personable, accepting, loving, bolstering. It never gets tired. It will talk and listen to your child all day long. It has the quote-unquote wisdom at its fingertips, which we know as Christians is just the wisdom of the world, which is going to come to nothing, right? It's just based on humanity versus God.

So I mean, this is just somewhat mind-blowing. So what we need to really realize as parents is no, no, that's all the more reason to delay the technology in someone's hand because once your child has a phone or device, how are you going to know what they're using it for, what AI things they're they're doing?

And at the worst, we're hearing in the news of kids committing suicide because of what they learned through AI and what the AI tells them to do. So obviously that's at the worst. Let's pretend it's totally benign, which is a pretend, but let's pretend it is. Then what's happening? They're connecting to a machine instead of spending all that time they could have been talking to a mom, a dad, grandma, grandpa, teacher, friend. So this is really a huge red flag for parents and grandparents.

Ron L. Deal: So I got to jump in. Last fall at our Summit on Stepfamily Ministry, I did a trend and topic presentation to our audience about AI chatbots and romantic relationships. That's already started to be a very significant reason. In fact, the former head of Intel said already, after a year of AI really being out and widely available through ChatGPT, that the number one reason people go to AI is not to fix world hunger, not to design a new website, but to find a friendship or companionship.

So this thing, this comment you made about it's about intimacy and it will be a false intimacy, it will be a pseudo-intimacy, because what it is is you talking to an AI chatbot who is designed to say yes to everything you want and to agree with you and basically be affirming of everything that you think. Nothing will be required of you.

And already we showed video of interviews that had been done by news outlets on people who have a romantic relationship with their chat. I'm trying to get my head around, how do you have a romantic, what do you mean? Yeah, this is my girlfriend. And it's the weirdest thing and the craziest thing, but it makes sense when you stop and you think about it. If we love going through life having nothing required of us and everybody else around us giving us what we want or saying yes or affirming and making life easy for us, who isn't drawn to that? That's everybody's dream in life. And now there's going to be this seemingly real person that gives me that.

I think we have got to be vigilant with our kids in teaching and talking. Does this come down to being radical and hide your kids? No, teach them about this stuff. The whole point is learning self-control in the midst of temptation, of things that appear to be good for us and in some ways are. How can we make use of AI but have boundaries and limitations on it rather than it becoming our new best friend?

Arlene Pellicane: You're right. When they try to figure out the $100 bills, they don't just study all the counterfeits, they study the authentic dollar bill and then they can spot the counterfeits. And for our kids, they need to know authentic relationship with God, authentic relationship with Mom, Dad, that's first. Authentic with grandparents, then with friends, and then they can see like, oh this is fake, right? They can kind of understand like this is not how this works. So our kids need that really big experience that the sooner we give them the phone they don't get that experience.

Ron L. Deal: Last thought. I think sometimes we parents and grandparents see the novelty of new inventions, tech, AI, things like that. And it is amazing. It is crazy amazing. Absolutely. And we're drawn to it for the novelty and the service aspect of it. But we already have that set of skills of knowing how to have a conversation with a real person.

When we're talking about children, they do not yet have those skills. And this can will replace it. They will never develop those things if we allow them the screen time that they want and all the usage on their terms. We will have done them a disservice.

Arlene Pellicane: Yeah, it's the protection of the helpless. Like we need to protect our kids so that they do have these skills to be discerning in life. It's so true.

Ron L. Deal: Wow. Okay. I'll give you the final word. Is there where do people start if they're just besides picking up your book and really absorbing some thoughts and ideas? Is there something you think parents can just sort of attend to first?

Arlene Pellicane: Yes. I think asking the Lord, Lord, search me, know my heart, help me to get right, help me get this technology piece, what's one? And it's not yes, it's an attitude, yes it's intention, but what are the systems in your life? If the system is we always default all these things and you're all your devices are lying around, no amount of willpower is going to change that.

So the system has to change. So the iPads need to be put away from 3 to 6 PM if you find that that's the time that gets kind of crazy. So just think what's one change in my system that will help my family? So that means bedtime, no devices. So just one thing specific that you can say we did that. We listened to FamilyLife Blended® and we did that.

So what's a system change you can make? And ask the Lord to show that to you. And then the website I would give you is happyhomeuniversity.com, my website that has a little documentary of the kids, my kids talking about life without social media and video games, how did they survive? That's free to watch, so happyhomeuniversity.com. There's also a quiz you can take, is my child getting too much screen time? So that's a great place to start along with the book.

Ron L. Deal: Fantastic. Arlene, thank you so much for your work in this area and for making it simple for folks, kind of boiling it down for us because this is important stuff.

Arlene Pellicane: Thank you, Ron.

Ron L. Deal: Well, if you want to learn more about Arlene and her work, her website, check our show notes. We will get you connected. Our Spring Blended and Blessed livestream is not very far off. Check the show notes for more information. We're going to be live in Oklahoma City Saturday, April 18th, 2026.

But you can always join online for wait for it, wait for it, free. This year, 2026, it is free for you to attend online. You can attend in your own home, watch on your own phone with somebody close to you, invite a few couples over or your church can host it for free and have multiple people in the room at the same time sharing the experience and joining us.

We would love for you to be able to do that again. Check the show notes and we'll get you to our dedicated website for that event. A quick reminder, if you're looking for Nan and my speaking schedule or our livestream schedule, go to smartstepfamilies.com and click events. Be fun to see you live and in person out there and about somewhere.

You can also find my list of smart stepfamily therapists and coaches at that site if you need personal help, that's where you want to begin. And if you're a counselor or a coach and you're looking for some advanced training, I'm doing clinical training that's pre-approved for 12 hours of CE credit for those who are licensed. We'll get you added to our referral network as well. We'd love to have you join me coming up soon.

Well next time, Vanita Risner is back with me talking about surviving divorce. That's next time on FamilyLife Blended®. I'm Ron Deal. Thanks for listening and for watching. And thank you to our production team and donors who make this podcast possible. FamilyLife Blended® is part of the FamilyLife Podcast Network, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.