Every Man’s Battle Podcast

Guest (Male): Welcome to the Every Man’s Battle podcast brought to you by New Life Ministries. In this podcast, you’ll hear honest conversations and encouragement for living a life of sexual integrity. In every episode, licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West and licensed professional counselor Doug Barnes break the silence around sexual integrity struggles that millions of men face but rarely discuss openly. Each episode offers practical strategies and genuine hope to dissolve the shame and isolation that keeps men trapped in destructive cycles. Let’s get to today’s episode.

JJ West: Welcome back to the Every Man’s Battle podcast. I’m your host, JJ West, alongside Doug Barnes. Doug Barnes, right here in the studio in California, getting ready to continue our conversation on using technology safely. We started it last week, and we want to continue that this week. We’re going to get more into the nuts and bolts, more the very practical examples, ideas of how do we do this.

It’s important to just review last week. We started off by talking about the fact that we don’t want to take this stance that technology is good or bad. If it’s bad, then I’ve got to just get rid of it, get it out of my life, and then I’ll be okay. That technology is really just revealing something in my heart. I can use technology for good; I can use it for all kinds of good things in the world.

But I can also use it in some broken and destructive ways. That’s because there’s brokenness in my heart that it’s revealing. Can I allow that to draw me into the story of brokenness that needs to be healed as opposed to just saying, "Let me just get rid of the technology and then I won’t have this problem anymore"?

Doug Barnes: And then share that. We didn’t say that last time, but it’s getting it outside of ourselves. Most of us have the ability to isolate and to be alone and to be lonely and to be up late at night and on and on and on. So that helps us again just kind of build a force field around ourselves rather than being able to share that. That’s what helps us get out of this.

JJ West: Very good. So, let’s jump into some practical guidelines, practical guardrails, if you will, for how we do this. The nuts and bolts, as we said. I would start with device transparency. I think that’s a necessary guardrail, which means I don’t have a secret code to unlock my phone. I don’t have secret phones or laptops or tablets or whatever.

If I’m married, my spouse has open access to my technology. If I’m single, a mentor, maybe my sponsor if I’m in a 12-step group. Somebody else in my world, and maybe somebodies else, but at least somebody else in my world has open access to my technology, including computers, laptops, all of that, passwords. They have that.

At the intensive, we talk about active or passive. So we need to have that active approach. It’s not just that they have access; they do, but I am actively sharing with them. Here’s what’s going on. Here’s what’s on my phone. Do I want to live aboveboard? I want to live aboveboard. Sometimes I think people confuse this because they think, "Oh, if I have to have all of that, transparency, other people seeing into my world, that’s controlling. That’s limiting me in some way." But really that transparency is free.

We’ve all had the experience where you’re sitting alone in your room and the temptation feels way high. It’s pegging the needle; it’s off the scale. "Oh my gosh, I’m about ready to act out in some way." And then somebody knocks on the door. The doorknob jiggles. Suddenly, the temptation level drops significantly. When I have this level of transparency, I’m bringing somebody else into the room with me. I’m not alone. If I know that my spouse, my mentor, my guys in my group, that they have that level of transparency with them, now they’re sitting in the room with me.

Doug Barnes: You said something really pivotal a minute ago. I don’t know if you remember saying it. You were making the example and said, "If I have to have." No, that’s not the right attitude. It’s "I get to show." It’s like in my office, all of the screens face the door. My back is to the door. So all of my screens are facing the door.

If I’m on my phone or if I’m actually working, whoever comes in is going to see the screen before I ever have a chance to react to it. Now, that’s done on purpose. But for active transparency, it’s, "Here’s the phone if you want to look through it." No. It’s, "Here, let me take you through what I did today. Let me take you through all the websites, all the apps I worked on, where I went, what games I played," because gaming can get a little raunchy sometimes.

But it’s actively being an agent in the invitation because of the state of my heart, not because I have to. Not because some long-haired guy said do that. I want to be known versus I have to tell the truth. I want to be open and honest and transparent rather than I have to or something bad will happen.

JJ West: And quite frankly, it is freeing because it’s a lot easier. If I have full transparency, I don’t have to run around constantly covering my tracks, trying to hide. I don’t have to do any of that. It’s so much easier. I’m able to relax. So, if somebody says, "Hey, I need to talk to you," I don’t automatically think, "Oh God, what did you find? What did you see?" I already know that we have that level of transparency, so I’m not constantly worried that you’re going to find out something about me. It’s already known. I can breathe. It’s out there. I’m not hiding anymore.

Device transparency, I think, is number one. Number two: filtering and monitoring software. We already talked about the fact that they don’t have the power to heal us. They can’t fix us, but they are useful to have some sort of filtering or monitoring software on our devices because it’s that speed bump on the way to acting out that may slow me down enough to go, "Oh wait, I don’t want to do this."

Or it may be the check engine light on your dash. When it comes on, do I pull over and go, "Wow, what could this be?" Or do I just put the pedal down and keep on going? So, it can help be the signal that something, like I said, something bad is about to happen, or the signal that I am in pain. Am I aware of it?

That’s a different reframe from, "Oh my gosh, somebody’s going to come in." Well, no, they may not. But if I know that I’m pushing that limit, something’s going on in me. This is not rocket science. If I’m pushing those limits—you’ve probably had guys like this in your practice as well—computer guys, engineer guys, who say, "I know how to get around those." That’s not the point.

For none of us, even the guys who are not technologically savvy, the filtering or monitoring software, when I want to look at porn, doesn’t leap off the screen and strap me to the chair so I can’t act out. It’s the speed bump. It slows me down enough to go, "Let me examine why."

Actually, they’re in the process right now of developing some software that I’m excited about that not just says, "Oh, you can’t go to that site," or "If you go to that site, it’s going to send an email report to your accountability partner." That’s helpful. But it actually goes to another step of, "Before you get on this website or before you access that app, what’s going on in your heart right now? Why do you want to do that?"

Doug Barnes: Really? I haven’t heard that. That’s top.

JJ West: It’s just coming out. I don’t even think it’s actually really available yet. But it’s soon to be. It’s actually one of the guys in one of the sustained victory groups that is developing it. And so it walks you through what’s going on. So connect with self, with your own heart, what’s happening, and "Okay, so what’s the need? What’s the legitimate need that is in your heart that you’re trying to meet in an illegitimate way?" "Let me see. Let me go down my list."

It’s helping to do that. And then, "Okay, so how else could you have that legitimate need met? Could you reach out to a brother right now?" Fantastic. But again, can you get around it? Sure, you can get around it. You can fly over that speed bump, or you can slow down and go, "Whoa, what’s going on here? Let me examine."

So it’s helpful. I think it’s useful to have filtering and monitoring software because there are days where I’m doing well and then the little banner ad with the bikini girl is on there and I think, "Oh, I want to look at that." No, I really don’t, because it slows me down. That’s helpful. It doesn’t heal me; it helps me at least to slow down the check engine light to go, "What’s going on that I need to tend to in here?"

Doug Barnes: Maybe help us ferret out the symptoms, because that’s what that’s doing. But good to have it. Good to have someone on the other end that it’s accountability. It’s not just a filter. Filtering’s good, but if that’s all it is, if it’s just blocking, it’s a multibillion-dollar industry. They will continue to find ways around your filter. So it’s good to have the accountability on the other end as well.

Well, and for me to want that. I want to be into me see, right? I want you to see, even if—we talked about this in a past episode—even if you come and say, "You know, you’ve got some spinach in your teeth, man. You may want to go brush your teeth before you get up in front of people."

A silly example, but it’s those that are being honest and are taking that risk of being in that close proximity, that relational proximity of, "I love you, man. I want to know why you’re doing this. Do you know why you’re doing this?" And that goes back to the software you’re talking about, of maybe helping me get in touch with the symptom.

What’s going on in my heart that I want to go do this? Do I really—moment of clarity here—when we’re in mental clarity, are we thinking about acting out? No, of course not. It’s those moments when I’m not in mental clarity. The blinders are on. All I see is what’s in front of me. That’s when am I going to be really honest with myself and say, "This is a moment where I’ve got my blinders on and I might not be able to take them off by myself."

JJ West: Third practical: remove access points. There are just some things that are a constant tripping hazard. There’s a rock in my front yard that I trip over every single time I mow the lawn. I probably should move the rock out of the way. At some point, you go, "This isn't helping me; I need to move the rock." So there’s going to be some stuff that is tripping you up every single time.

For me, and for I think a lot of guys, there’s a lot of social media stuff that—they’re just thirst traps, right? It’s designed to entice you, to suck you in. Exactly. And so you may need to delete some of your some or all of your social media platforms if it’s a rock that you’re tripping over every single day that you walk through your yard.

Doug Barnes: Even if you’re tripping over it once a week. Whatever. If it’s a regular tripping hazard, don’t you think it would be helpful to you to remove that?

JJ West: "But, but, but, I use it for work," or "It’s really helpful," or "I don’t trip over it all the time, so isn't it okay if...?" Listen, we can’t tell you what to do. We’re not going to come to your house and make you do this. You have to evaluate for yourself. Are you comfortable with the level of tripping? Is that good for you? Is that helpful for you? And if you’re tired, if you’re sick and tired of constantly tripping over that, maybe think about removing, maybe think about deleting that account.

Doug Barnes: Yes. And how many of those are just excuses to continue? Meaning, "Well, I only get tripped up about every six months." Okay, what’s the common denominator? You still get tripped. In hockey, when you trip, you go to the penalty box. There’s a two-minute minor. There’s a removal. Exactly.

And so do I want to live—what kind of man is God calling me to be? Is he calling me to manage my tripping on my own? Or is he calling me to something greater than myself, which might mean I ask my wife to keep up with the grandkids on Facebook?

JJ West: Or she can send me the picture of the grandkids eating chocolate cake, ice cream in summer, whatever. You can send that to me separately. I don’t need the social media account in order to have that full-time.

Doug Barnes: "Well, I make money in the Facebook Marketplace." Okay, well maybe we need to change how you make money. I mean, I can make money working at a strip club. That’s not really healthy. I would assume. I’m assuming you can. I’m not saying as a dancer. Let me be clear! I meant as a bouncer, as a bartender.

I could work in an industry that would be really unsafe for me. I don’t know where I went with that, I’m so sorry. I could make money there, but we would all go, "Yeah, that’s not a healthy place for you to make money. Don’t do that." So is this a place that I can make money but it’s not healthy for me? So I need to find another place. And am I honest enough with that unhealthiness? It’s knowing myself. I’m just thinking about how we have to edit all that out! Or we leave it in because it’s fun. Who knows?

But I agree with you, especially about getting rid of it. I don’t have any social media. None. Because I know myself. I don't need that.

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JJ West: Okay, setting parental controls. Sometimes that’s on your devices, sometimes that’s on your TV. But those can be helpful just as that guardrail that I turn it on and I go, "I wonder what’s over... Oh, I can’t get there. All right, I’ve got to find something else to do." And me not being able to just automatically access it allows me to go, "But wait, why was I wanting to in the first place?" If that guardrail’s not in place and I can just access it, I don’t wrestle with the question of why I want to, because I’m already in it. I’m already doing it.

Doug Barnes: And that works good with film as well. Sometimes when I want to go see the hottest, latest Academy Award-nominated film, it’s like, "Okay, I need to go out and see what does this really have in it? Does it have stuff in it that I don’t need to see?"

Well then maybe I don’t, until such time that I can handle it, if I ever will, which I may not be, and I’m okay with that. But I need to be out in front of these things. I can’t wait to all of a sudden sit down in the theater, I’m eating my popcorn, and all of a sudden some nude dancer comes across the stage. And I get an elbow in the face. "You picked this movie just for that two seconds, didn't you?" "What? No, I didn't even know it was in there." That’s on me.

And we need to take ownership of that. I need to be proactive about what this film really has for me. And if it’s not edifying, let’s just say, then maybe I don’t need to be approaching a film like this.

JJ West: There are websites out there that can do that without a doubt. I would agree that would be really helpful. The other one is disabling Incognito mode or secret mode on your internet browsers. You can actually go in and delete that. You can remove that option, disable that option so that, again, it’s not that automatic temptation of, "Oh, this gets me around whatever, you can’t see, there’s no paper trail," or in this case, internet history.

Just having that removed can be the roadblock that makes me at least go, "Hmm, why do I want to? Why do I want to sneak around the internet?" Because every single time, I can’t remember a time in my life where I went into Incognito mode or secret mode for something beneficial. CarMax, I’m going to go buy a car! It’s only because I’m wanting to sneak around the internet. I’m wanting to do this anonymously.

Doug Barnes: And what so many don’t understand is that my MAC address—you don’t have to know what that is, but people will—my MAC address is recorded on their servers regardless of what I do on my own. And so they know I was there, whoever the "they" are. They know I was there, and then they can come back to me. And so any footprint, anytime you walk out on the internet, there’s a permanent footprint. We’ve got to realize that. And is that really how I want to live?

JJ West: Agreed. Here’s another one that is less about content and more about habits: app limits or screen restrictions. How much time do I put time limits on how much I spend on whatever it is? It could be a game or a series of games, it could be a social media thing, it could just be browsing the internet.

But can I put some time restrictions on that because if I don’t, chances are I start, "Oh, I’ll just spend a couple minutes," and five minutes turns into an hour and you look at the clock and, "Oh my gosh, how did I get here?"

Doug Barnes: Especially when we’re at work, that could turn into the consequences of that. Even though I may be on my home machine, I’m on work’s time. That could have some real negative consequences.

JJ West: Absolutely. That can be helpful because, again, it’s a helpful habit, but then because the way the algorithm is designed, I start off with something fairly benign. And then I move into something that’s just a little bit questionable but not outright wrong. It’s just questionable, but that drives me a little bit further.

The longer I’m on, the further down that path I get to where now I’m in stuff that I know is completely unhelpful to me, unholy, taking me right back into my old addiction. The longer I’m on the screen or on the device, the more likely it is that’s where I end up.

Doug Barnes: And that then promotes the secrecy, my lying by omission or commission, my avoiding and hiding and blaming and shaming and all those acting-in behaviors that we’re trying to be healthy and stay aboveboard and open and honest and transparent.

JJ West: It’s important to say this as well. We put these limitations, these restrictions, these guardrails in place, not because we’re weak. We do it because we’re wise. We do it because we can look down the path and see, if I don’t have that guardrail in place, I’m more likely to end up somewhere I don’t want to be that’s unhealthy for me.

It’s the reason why you choose not to buy all the candy in the store and then put it in your pantry, because if I do that, I’m probably going to eat all that candy. So I don’t not buy the candy because I’m weak; I don’t buy the candy because I’m wise. Because I’m thinking about the future me that I want to be.

Thinking about the future me that I want to be, and I have to make choices in the present that lead to the future me. Micro-macro. Micro decisions leading to a macro outcome. So I’m choosing to put these guardrails in place to help me become the man I want to be, the man that God’s calling me to be.

Doug Barnes: Reminds me of the story of him walking down the street and falling in the hole. You know the outcome. So I need to walk down the street; I just need to walk down a different street because I know the hole is there. And I think that’s what you’re pointing to is the wisdom of that.

JJ West: I like the idea of a handheld Sabbath. I like the idea of setting aside maybe daily, maybe weekly, where the phone is off. Off, not just vibrate. It’s off and I’m not accessing it. It allows me to then focus on being present.

So we have Sabbaths for all kinds of things. We have Sabbaths from work, we have Sabbaths from food, like we take a fast from food. I think having a regular scheduled time where I am not on my device is good for my soul. I can hear the anxiety!

Case in point, this morning I headed downstairs to the lobby to get breakfast. I got all the way downstairs, one flight, and I realized, "Oh my gosh, I left my phone in the hotel room. Should I go back and get it? What am I going to miss? What’s going to happen in the next 30 minutes that is so vital?" No, I’ll be fine.

I’m going to leave it there. I’m going to have breakfast. And it was a lovely breakfast. I was able to just sit and eat and think and I didn't have to be entertained. My wife rightfully so points out the fact that there are many times where at the table I have some device in front of me. At home! It’s not healthy. I need to have times where I have a Sabbath from my devices.

Doug Barnes: By the way, I did breakfast the same way this morning. I purposefully left it in the room. I said, "I’m not going to be down there that long; it’s no big deal." I’ll come down and it was awesome. Quiet. I could just kind of think through the day, what we were doing today, how we were going to do that. That’s really cool.

But to your example, I love that purposeful—this is purposeful recovery. This is not accidental. It doesn't just creep up on me. This is, I’m doing this to become the man that God’s calling me to be in a wiser fashion than I did yesterday.

JJ West: Final practical piece: replace, don’t just restrict. Replace, don’t just restrict. What I mean by that is we want to add in meaningful practices while I’m removing the unhealthy practices. Can’t just be, "Oh, so I don’t have my device anymore." Okay, but what am I adding into that space?

I want there to be something meaningful. Prayer rhythms, reading Scripture, journaling, gratitude lists, exercise. It could be health stuff like taking cold plunges or whatever. But what am I adding into my life, not just what am I taking out?

Ephesians 4, where he talks about not just the letting go of but what are you adding to. You used to be this way, but now you’re this way. You used to be angry and now you have joy. You used to be lustful and now you have—I don’t remember all the phrases, but it’s that idea of the put-ons and not just the put-offs.

Doug Barnes: As you’re talking through that, I’m just thinking through my own life. The context is not either/or; it’s to be proactive so that I can grow in my recovery. I especially like the journal piece of it. Even thinking through all of those that you said, I think are awesome.

How can I make a difference in someone else’s life today? How can I take 15 minutes for me today, just in self-care? Okay, five minutes for me today; start slow. How can I take something for me today that is healthy for me, that grounds me, gives me peace, gives me joy, gives me whatever I need to overcome the stimulation that our brain goes through through devices?

Because when I do that, when I am practicing some deep breathing, some journaling, some reflection time, all of that, I’m practicing healthy self-soothing. And I don’t feel the need. But if I don't do that, if you don't swap out behavior with nourishment, if you don't make that change, deprivation turns into obsession. We have to, there has to be that exchange. It’s not just the putting off; there has to be the putting on.

JJ West: Okay, here’s what we need to do. We’ve got to extend this to another week. But not because we need filler, but because this is a rich conversation. This is helpful. At least we think it is. It’s good for us! It reinforces. We don't know about you out there, who knows if it’s helping you, but it’s helping me and Doug. And it is all about us! I’m kidding. Hopefully it is helpful for you.

And we are glad that you’re listening. We really are glad that you’re listening, and we do hope that what we’re talking about is furthering more discussion. You had mentioned before how there are groups that listen to the podcast and then they discuss it as a group, which I think is fantastic.

So hopefully the things that we’re talking about are furthering more discussion, furthering more introspection, furthering hopefully more healing, growth, connection, all the good things that our hearts desperately need and that we can’t find in our sexual acting out. We just can’t. It’s not going to happen.

Thanks for listening. If you are listening but you’re not participating—you’re just a passive listener—you haven't actively engaged with us yet. Would you do that? Can I implore you, can I beseech you, cajole you in some way to say we want to hear from you.

We want to know what you’re thinking, we want to hear what you’re wanting in terms of topics for the podcast. We’re wanting to hear questions that you might have. Later on this season, we’re going to do a question-and-answer segment, and so we want you to share with us what questions do you have or what feedback do you have.

Please, please send an email to embpodcast@newlife.com. Let us know, "Hey, here’s what I’m listening to and here’s what I’m thinking" or "Here are some questions that I have for you guys" and hopefully we’ll get to it. If we don't get to it on this season’s question-and-answer episode, we’ll get to it next time. I assure you. So continue to listen, continue to give us feedback, and let’s continue to walk in integrity together.

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