Every Man’s Battle Podcast

Announcer: Welcome to the Every Man’s Battle Podcast brought to you by New Life Ministries. In this podcast, you’ll hear honest conversations and encouragement for living a life of sexual integrity. In every episode, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist JJ West and Licensed Professional Counselor Doug Barnes break the silence around sexual integrity struggles that millions of men face but rarely discuss openly.

Each episode offers practical strategies and genuine hope to dissolve the shame and isolation that keeps men trapped in destructive cycles. Let’s get to today’s episode.

JJ West: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Every Man’s Battle Podcast. I am JJ West, and I’m joined by Doug Barnes. We are at the Intimacy in Marriage workshop this weekend, so we’re using a hotel room as a makeshift studio to bring you the next episode of the Every Man’s Battle Podcast.

Last week we talked about overcoming acting in. We started with a definition of what acting in is. We started talking about how we notice and identify whether or not we’re acting in. Is it just that I’m a quiet person, I’m introverted, and I like to spend time in solitude meeting with God? Or am I truly acting in, which is that I’m acting in relationally by pushing others away?

I can do that through withdrawal. I can do that by getting really sucked into work or projects. I can do that through anger, criticism, defensiveness, gaslighting, or blame-shifting. There are all kinds of different ways that I act in, but the primary understanding is I act in as a way to push you away to keep me safe because there’s something going on internally for me where I feel overwhelmed.

It’s often a survival response. I’m acting in because it’s a way for me to feel safe and to avoid dangerous and unpredictable situations. It’s a way for me to avoid or manage shame or fear that I might feel. If I push you out, you can’t get close to me, you can’t hurt me, you can’t reject me, and you can’t cause me emotional pain if I keep you at a distance.

It’s also a way to control pain. If I keep the world at a distance, it can’t hurt me or reject me. It can’t call me to things that I’m not capable of doing. There are all kinds of different ways that we engage in acting in behavior. I think the critical piece for us, what we talked about the most, is the fact that it’s a trauma response.

For a lot of us, we developed that trauma response early on, maybe because of our family of origin and some stuff that went on there. Maybe we had a hyper-critical parent or parents. Maybe we had a Little League coach, a scout leader, or a teacher. It doesn’t even have to be a person; it can just be circumstances. There could just be things where my response was that it felt safer for me to be small, silent, and invisible. If no one sees me and no one notices me, then I’m safe. Nothing bad will happen to me, and nothing will be required of me that I can’t meet.

Doug Barnes: Right, because early on in our lives, something or some things I interpreted to be bad. We look back as adults and go, "That was no big deal." But to a five-year-old, it’s their whole world. They’ve only had five years on the planet. They haven’t had 25 or 35. That sometimes is that misinterpretation of how that affected me. Then I carry that into my adulthood, and it’s still affecting me, and I don’t know why.

JJ West: I had an experience where, in fourth grade, my teacher scared me, partly because she seemed to go out of her way to embarrass me and a friend of mine. For whatever reason, she was larger than life and scary. I had to go back to the elementary school when I was in high school. We had a class that had to meet in a separate space over there, and I ran into my fourth-grade teacher. She was this tiny little thing. I thought to myself, "Why did she scare me? She’s not big and scary." But as a fourth grader who is nine or 10 years old, that was scary to me. I interpreted it differently as a child than I did as an older adolescent.

Doug Barnes: We hear so many of those examples, especially in the way that those situations are processed in our offices or at the intensive, whether it’s at Every Man’s Battle or Intimacy in Marriage. Those get processed differently because we’re at a different place to look at them with objectivity rather than being subjective in the moment when my heart is very vulnerable, frail, and very honest. We’ve learned to put a hard cover on that heart as protection because I’m not going to get hurt that way again, or I don’t want to feel that again.

JJ West: That sets the stage for what we talked about last time. But moving forward, I can’t help but believe that there are some in our audience who are saying, "Okay, Doug and JJ, why does it matter if I’m acting in as long as I’ve stopped acting out? I’m not looking at porn anymore. I’m not going to the massage parlors. I’m not having the affairs. I’m going to work, coming home, and helping with dinner. Isn't that enough? Why do I have to even worry about acting in? Why is that important?"

Doug Barnes: That’s a great question because we all know in recovery there are two types: behavioral and relational. Behavioral recovery is stopping the acting out. We do these behaviors, whether it’s acting in or acting out—remember, they are two sides of the same coin—in a response or reaction to something going on inside of me. It’s purposeful behavior for us; it serves a purpose.

Stopping acting out is the first step. We have to stop acting out or acting in because otherwise, we’re not going to get in touch with the emotional hurt that may be going on inside of us. If I keep doing it, I’m taking Advil for my headache. I keep putting medication on the wound, and I don’t ever feel what I need to feel in order to heal from it. That doesn't heal as long as I’m repeating the behavior. I’m kicking the recovery can down the road every time I go back to it.

Stopping acting out is the first step into allowing the uncomfortability to bubble up inside of me so my emotional temperature is being raised. Now I’m starting to feel that again, and I can gain awareness around what I’m feeling and where I feel it inside of me. That arms me with the choice. I have agency because I can choose. I can choose to go back to my acting in or acting out behavior, or I can choose to stop and say, "Hey, what’s going on?" We go to God, self, and others, assuming we know that’s where we need to go.

That gets me out of my cycle and my pattern of behavior. To get personal, I have these patterns of behavior that I do in order to keep the temperature down on that stuff that starts to percolate and bubble up inside of me. When that heat starts to rise, my brain and body know what that feels like, but I may not individually know that internally. While it’s starting to get really hot in here and I’m starting to get uncomfortable, I fight through it because I’ve stopped acting out.

I’m not acting out anymore, so here I am. And yet, inside of me, I’m going, "I’m feeling inadequate. I feel like a loser. I can’t get this right. Here I am again; I’m in trouble. Mom’s got me again, or Dad’s about to get the whip, the belt, the hand, or the switch." It gets us out of that acting out cycle. That’s why it’s important number one.

Number two is that acting in can be that trigger point that leads us back into those triggers. What triggered me in the first place? Am I even aware of that? There are other podcasts where we talk about what those triggers are and getting a handle on being present in the moment. If I’m in trouble, I'll go back to my own childhood. When my mom was angry, she could be in the furthest place in the car, and her hand would still find me. She had these octopus hands that could find me. I never knew a safe place in the car, but something triggered that.

When I’m acting in, there are parts of me that could get triggered into those acting in behaviors: isolating, hiding, being passive, lying, shaming, dodging, stonewalling, or gaslighting. We want to try to get in front of the triggers or at least be able to be aware of the triggers. Does that make sense?

JJ West: It does, and as you were saying that, it sparked a thought for me. Being passive doesn’t always show up on the radar as acting in behavior. But for me, whenever I am in a situation where I can’t guarantee the outcome of how this is going to go, there’s risk. There’s a risk of messing up, blowing it, or the unknown. There’s a risk of it not being well-received.

That passivity jumps up on me in a heartbeat because I don’t want to disappoint. I don’t want to get that criticism or rejection. I go to saying nothing and doing nothing. If you don’t do anything, you can’t mess it up. It’s not a conscious thing; it’s a reaction. As we talked about last episode, if I want to have a different response instead of a reaction, I have to be aware of that.

Even as we’re talking, I’m thinking about the last four weeks and how many times I have chosen passivity as an acting in response as opposed to being active and taking a risk. Maybe it won’t work out and maybe I will get criticized, but is that going to be the death of me? We are hard-pressed on every side, but we’re not crushed. That’s not the end. It’s trusting in God. He really is enough for me. God is my shield and my defender. I don’t have to use passivity as my shield because that’s like a little M&M-sized shield. God is way bigger, so why trust in something so ineffective?

Doug Barnes: Right, and it’s staying mindful in the moment that that’s available to us. Correct, because sometimes our brains get chaotic and it’s like, "Warning, warning, something bad is about to happen."

JJ West: It's not fair that podcasts turn into conviction. I don’t like it. Actually, it’s really good for me. You mentioned that if we stop acting out but continue to act in, it sets us up for other acting out behavior. We might just exchange behaviors. I’m no longer looking at porn, masturbating, or going to the strip clubs, but now I’m working long hours. Suddenly I’ve got four hobbies.

Doug Barnes: I was going to say, we get the woodworking done in the garage that we’ve always wanted to do. I’m learning guitar, the dulcimer, and five languages. We replace it with something else, but I’m still acting in. I’m still withdrawn and isolated. I’m not connected.

JJ West: Most of the time, what you’ve seen in your office and what I’ve seen in my office so many times is that it also leads to relapsing back into acting out behaviors. Over time, the potential is very great. It grows the longer I’m acting in because they’re two sides of the same coin. It’s only a matter of time before I hit that acting out cycle again. That time could be two months, six months, or five years; it doesn't matter. A lot of it pulls back to being present. Am I present with me? I can’t be present with you if I’m not present with me in the moment. I can only bring what I’m aware of to the conversation and the interaction.

Doug Barnes: Talking about authentic recovery means I am behaviorally sober, therefore I’ve stopped the behaviors, even though we know this is not just about what we’re not doing. I need to stop the behaviors so that things can start to bubble up inside of me.

JJ West: Oh, that’s so important.

Doug Barnes: When they start to bubble up inside of me, almost invariably, we start acting in as a response to not acting out. I see that more and more. I don’t like this feeling, this thing that’s bubbling up. That’s why I was acting out—to get rid of this feeling, to hide from it, or to avoid it. But now it’s here, and I’m not allowed to act out, so I act in as a way to avoid it. It’s the closest, most innate thing in us that is subconscious or almost unconscious that I know to do. I just didn’t have the words or the language for it up until now.

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Doug Barnes: We have to stop the behavior and look at getting an emotional connection to ourselves, realizing something is going on in me and I need to address that with God, self, and others—maybe our spouses, a coach, a counselor, or a pastor. It’s talking through what am I feeling right now. "Well, I’m feeling good." Okay, good is a feeling, but what is that feeling?

I don't like to use the term "emotionally intelligent" because it's like, am I emotionally experiencing something that I’m thinking? That’s a whole different can of worms I don’t want to get into. It’s an awareness. Am I aware of the feeling, and am I letting myself feel what I feel?

Ultimately, authentic recovery requires both behavioral sobriety and emotional healing. By emotional healing, we mean connection with God, self, and others. Can I put a word to what I’m experiencing on the inside of me? I can’t help you—my spouse, colleague, or girlfriend—if I’m not aware of what I’m experiencing. Being aware helps me dive into empathy, tenderness, and compassion for what you’re struggling with. If I’m having a dialogue inside of me, I’m so far away from what you’re experiencing because I’m trying to manage what I’m experiencing. That starts the disconnection. What we’re trying to do is uncouple those things so I can be aware of what I’m struggling with and be with you in what you’re experiencing.

JJ West: That’s a hard place to be. I’m in the audience listening and saying, "I like what you’re saying. I think you’re right, and I should stop acting in. I want to do this differently." But if I’ve been acting in as a way to protect myself, what can I do to feel safe enough to take those risks? It sounds risky to have this kind of authentic connection you’re talking about. Acting in protects me, so what do I do to protect myself in order to take these risks?

Doug Barnes: That’s a great question, and you’re exactly right. Relationships are risky. Authentic relationship always involves risk; you can’t have it any other way. It scares me to death. There’s the risk of really connecting and getting my true, authentic needs met that I don’t even know I have in a lot of cases. Getting started is not easy. It’s a cliché to say it’s easy, but it’s not.

We’re going to start small. Pick an emotion, one that you're familiar with. Anxiety is the one that comes to the top for me. When I feel anxious, how does that feel? What do I notice in my body? Where do I notice it inside of me? Is it in the back of my neck, behind my eyes, or in my chest? Do my fists clench up? Do I get clammy? Notice it and then journal about it; write it down. At 2:30 p.m., I was in Washington, D.C., and I was going to have a tough conversation with JJ. I got really anxious. I started feeling like I was going to throw up, and I had a brick in my gut. My feet were like lead, and I could hardly walk. That’s noticing, but it’s also bringing into awareness what I’m not aware of.

JJ West: On that same concept of starting small, start small with the risks you take relationally and what you share with others. You don’t have to go and share with everybody in your world right now all the emotions you’re feeling. Start with one safe person. Who in your world is a safe person that you perceive and have experienced as safe—someone who is for you, not against you? Start with them. Don’t jump into full vulnerability; take baby steps. This is a place where it’s okay to slowly step into the cold pool, not plunge right in. No cannonballs.

Doug Barnes: Safe is the operative word. Who is trustworthy in my life right now? If I think in my core being, "I don’t have anybody like that," then that becomes one of the previous steps of finding who that is. Then we slowly step into the expression of, "Hey, can I share something I wrote in my journal?" and then putting a period there and walking away. You may want a response or you may not, and both are okay to begin with. Take those small steps and be intentional. Don’t quit or stop because that’s great work. It’s a step, and there’s more.

I take that one step further. I have all my guys, especially in my groups, look down a list of emotions. Not just the top where all the happy, pretty ones are, but look over the entire list and see which ones really resonate in this moment. Start there. I might feel anxious right now. In an hour, let’s revisit this list and see where I am now. We do this at EMB, right? What do I feel, and how intensely do I feel it? I might start off with anxiety at an eight. What’s it attached to? Maybe I’m worried the camera is getting my bad side. I’m feeling anxiety at an eight, and then maybe as the conversation goes, that anxiety starts to trickle down. By the end of the conversation, I’m actually at a four or a three.

Just being aware of that. What caused my emotional rating to change? I’m a big fan of journaling because we get our unconscious stuff out. I’m a big fan of getting it down on paper so I can go back and look. In July of 2025, I was struggling with anxiety, apprehension, being overwhelmed, and chaos. Here I am in June of 2027, and I’m feeling happy, content, and peaceful. I can see the journey of where I was and the people in my life who I’ve now drawn into my community to create that safer, trustworthy community that helps us get further.

JJ West: A couple of other practical things. It’s going to be important to set boundaries. As you walk through the process of learning to connect instead of acting in, recognize that authentic connection doesn’t mean oversharing. It doesn’t mean I share every feeling that I have and everything that’s going on and all my deep, dark secrets. You read the room. You gradually move into greater and greater connection and risk in the relationship, but you don’t have to do it all at once all the time.

You’re setting healthy boundaries to determine what is an appropriate level of sharing here at this stage of our relationship or at this stage of the conversation. The goalpost always moves, so we just need to be aware of that and talk about it. This goes back to those trusted safe people. "Hey, did it feel like I was oversharing? Did I give you TMI here?" Let them start to help you gauge what’s too much. How do I learn to read the room, a conversation, and a group of people? I can’t have the same conversation with my life group or home church that I have with the ones in my inner circle.

Where is the line of appropriateness? Some people are not ready to hear how we’re feeling, truly. If they give you that feedback, duly noted. I know you’re not in my inner circle. You might be on the second or third level, and that’s okay. But I do need to continue to look for those people in my inner circle that I do get to share with deeply. Boundaries are about protection; they’re not offensive weapons. We’re not keeping people out.

What we’re trying to do is keep our emotional hearts in a good place to be healthy. I can allow people in and I can keep people out. Another very practical and maybe overlooked piece of this is practicing self-compassion and self-care. Sometimes we actually need to talk to ourselves rather than listening to ourselves. Part of talking to ourselves is saying, "It’s okay to be seen, heard, and known. I don’t have to be perfect. I don’t have to put on a mask of what I think you’re looking for." It’s okay for me to be my authentic self with its challenges, struggles, pain, and defects. It’s okay to be seen, known, heard, and not have to be perfect.

A side note to that is that practicing it regularly is actually helping heal some of those childhood wounds from age six to sixteen. We are loved and valued, and God is right there with us. When things are chaotic or not going in my favor, that little kid has a tendency to make his voice known, and usually, it comes out in unhealthy ways. When we’re practicing those self-positive talks and self-compassion, we’re actually speaking to his heart too. Over the long haul, that shows some healing in the way I carry myself so that when I’m with you, I’m not the one who wants to hide, deflect, defend, or become invisible. I don’t have to be aggressive, but at the same time, I can just be authentically who God is creating me to be.

It’s a beautiful thing. It’s funny how often I think about a project I was working on with my wife, and she said, "JJ, it doesn’t have to be perfect." I looked at her and asked, "Do you know me? Have we met? Of course, it has to be perfect." Then I realized she was right. But that wounded kid thought the only way I could assure you’d accept me is if I was perfect and did it all perfectly. Remember, you’re talking to a musician, so I get that 100%.

It just creeps up. But when I’m practicing avoiding acting in by connecting with God, self, and others, I’m aware. Even sitting here right now, I’m aware that there’s some emotion there. I think about that little guy who thought that’s the only way he can be accepted and belong. We all have that longing to belong and a longing to be. That is so difficult, especially in my experience, for us as men. We want to belong through aggression, snapping towels, or telling jokes—low-risk behaviors.

Instead, find those safe guys, the Davids and Jonathans, the closer-than-blood brothers that get us and love us for who we are. Those are treasured goldmines in our lives. We rely on those guys so much. I think about how grateful I am for you and the rest of the guys on the staff of Every Man's Battle because I know I can share openly without judgment or criticism. I’ve got a couple of guys back home, Barry and Evan, and those guys are life to me. To have men in my life that I’m able to take these risks with, to be vulnerable, to be myself, and to not be perfect is a beautiful thing. We can laugh, joke, cry, talk, have a good time, and be connected, then walk away and still be connected. We’re taking our groups with us everywhere. If folks haven’t experienced that, it’s okay. It’s about looking for those special relationships in our life because they are so enriching and help us grow.

I’m left with thinking about honest, safe, connected relationships and how important those are for our ongoing recovery. If you’re out there saying, "That sounds good, but I don’t think I have that," look for it. Start asking God to bring these people into your world. Who are the safe people that you can start to share with? Maybe that’s your recovery group, your small group from church, your spouse, your pastor, or a care group leader. If you truly don’t have anybody, you absolutely need to go to the Every Man’s Battle Intensive and then do the follow-up care with Sustained Victory. If you don’t have it anywhere else, you’ll have it there. You’ll have a community of men who see you, accept you, love you, and call out life and health from you in fun and relaxed ways. We all desperately need that.

Ultimately, overcoming acting in means learning to live from a place of courage. It means even when vulnerability feels risky, we still walk into it. Guys, thanks for listening. We want you to experience this kind of connection, and we encourage you to take those risks because we want each of you to continue to walk in integrity. Until next time, thanks for listening.

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