Every Man’s Battle Podcast

Guest (Male): Welcome to the Every Man's Battle Podcast, brought to you by New Life Ministries. In this podcast, you'll hear honest conversations and encouragement for living a life of sexual integrity. In every episode, licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West and licensed professional counselor Doug Barnes break the silence around sexual integrity struggles that millions of men face but rarely discuss openly. Each episode offers practical strategies and genuine hope to dissolve the shame and isolation that keeps men trapped in destructive cycles. Let's get to today's episode.

JJ West: Hey guys, welcome back to the Every Man's Battle Podcast. I am JJ West alongside Doug Barnes. Hey, Doug.

Doug Barnes: Hey, JJ. We are at EMB in Dallas, and it is going to be a fantastic weekend. I can't wait until we get to the second half of this.

JJ West: Yes. So on that point, we started last week with a discussion of finding what matters. We talked about the need to mentor younger men on what to look for if you're looking for a romantic, committed relationship.

We started with just talking about the need for mentorship, the call to mentorship in scripture, and then how the lack of mentorship shows up in our stories because we start to believe some lies, we start to believe some myths, we start to get off track, we start to look for the wrong things, and we have emphasis on the wrong goals and the wrong values.

Doug Barnes: As our friend Laura says, the BFLs, the Big Fat Lies. We begin to believe our own belief system of lies without having truth spoken over that and into that like, "Hey, you may want to rethink that." I didn't have that part of my story.

JJ West: Exactly. In part one of this two-part episode on finding what matters, we really tried to challenge younger men. If you're not in a mentoring relationship, look for that. Go and identify a guy or some guys in your life who could mentor you.

Then if you're an older man, step up. Be the mentor in a younger man's life and begin to share your story. Begin to just tell what have you been through, what have you learned, what's been helpful, what's worked, and also what hasn't worked. What would you say, "Man, don't do this, don't make these mistakes." We want to continue that today with again, just talking about finding what matters. Happy podcast day.

Doug Barnes: Happy podcast day. This is a good day. It's a good time to be together, and I'm looking for this topic.

JJ West: Me too. Let's do it. When we're talking about what to look for in a woman in a romantic relationship, when we're talking about what's important, I think we have to start with, rather than the emphasis on "What am I looking for in her? What should she be like? What character qualities and all of that?" maybe we should start by turning the camera around on ourselves and examining, "Am I the kind of guy that would attract a woman of substance and character?"

Doug Barnes: One of the questions I always ask guys is, "What kind of man is God calling you to be?" Not what kind of man am I trying to show up as? Not the mask. We talk about that at EMB. So it's not the posing, it's not the manipulation of who I want you to see.

Can I sit back and meditate on today? Because all I have is today. What kind of man is God calling me to be? Not what kind of man is in a film, magazine, or video. Not the athlete or the guy who can come in and kick everybody's butt. What kind of man is God calling me to be? Can I live through that view and be authentic? Can I be with humility? Because humility matters. To be authentic in the way that I show up, not wanting to be the clown, not wanting to be the smartest guy in the room, not wanting to be the biggest guy in the room. I just need to be myself. If that's the guy that God created, then according to scripture, everything works out for those who are called according to His purpose. Our purpose is to live authentically and to show up authentically.

JJ West: I didn't do that well. I was so focused on finding the one, finding her, finding her. I was not enough, too little concerned with was I becoming the kind of man worth finding?

Doug Barnes: Me too. That's a flaw that again, I go back to. I'm really looking to try to mentor my own sons of, "Hey, how are you showing up? Are you the guy? Or are you yourself?" What does that look like? How do I even get to know myself, which we need to approach that a little bit as well? How do I become that guy that God's calling me to be? Because it doesn't just happen. It takes work, but it takes some internal work before I start to look for the "her."

JJ West: So we're starting with ourselves. We're looking at, "Am I growing? Am I maturing? Do I know who I am and what I bring to the table? How do I display the character of God?" Okay, so let's assume that that's already happening. Let's just make the assumption that the guys in the audience are going, "Okay, yes, I've got that."

They've already been working on themselves for a while. They have a good idea, a good sense of who they are, what they bring to the table, they're growing in godliness, and now they're wrestling with the question: "So what should I look for? What kind of woman should I be looking for? Where do I start? What does it look like?"

Doug Barnes: The way that I would answer that is I would be careful about the outward attributes being the first and foremost barometer of who I am looking for. She needs to be so tall, she needs to have this color hair and this color eyes. Those are all good things, and there's nothing wrong with that, but those things will change over the long haul of time. We all know that because it's happened to us, too.

But at the same time, what kind of character does she possess? Where is she in her relationship to God? From our last episode, we kind of shared a little bit about our early experiences. That was one thing I was really focusing on as we were having these conversations at restaurants and on park benches. I'm talking with her about her faith and how growing up was one way, and then she went off the deep end with her faith. Then she was doing the same thing I was doing: "God, you win. I'm tired of doing it my way because I know it doesn't work." We both were really walking in the same direction, and that was another thing that was really attractive to me. I don't have to rescue her, I don't have to pull her to me, she's doing some of that work on her own. That's what I think was a good foundation for us. It's not about perfection, it's not about being flawless, it's about what kind of character she possesses.

JJ West: Pause for a second. You just said a mouthful there. You've got to say that again. It's not about perfection, it's not about being flawless, it's about character. Let that sink in. How often am I chasing after perfection and I'm nitpicking, "Oh, I don't like that flaw, oh, that's not so good. No, I'm out." Instead, am I looking at her character and is she a woman who is walking with the Lord and growing in the Lord? Do you want her to use the same measuring stick on you in terms of flawless perfection, or are you hoping that instead she's saying, "Oh, does he have a character that represents the heart of God? Is he chasing God?"

Doug Barnes: Good point. At EMB, we talk about character sanctification. When I don't show up well, am I aware of the character that's being displayed enough to make amends for that character trait and go, "Okay, you know what, when I yelled at you, when I snubbed you, when I turned my back on you, when I rejected you, abandoned you, neglected you, whatever it was, that's a flaw in my character that I need to work on." Being able to own it, repair it, and move on. Instead of that's the end of the world, "I'm done, she's done, we're done." It's about being human. Character first. Can I show grace?

JJ West: Can I receive grace? That's not what I said. Can I show grace because of that imperfection? We are flawed beings. It's reminding me there's a couple of books I think are really helpful in terms of talking about marriage and even preparing for marriage. There's the book by Larry Crabb called The Marriage Builder.

That idea of love that lasts comes from two people who are learning to trust God and to have grace for and give grace to each other. That's the key. Those character issues, that's what builds a love that lasts over time. It's because it's rooted in our individual relationships with God that then as we're pursuing God, we're getting closer to each other, as opposed to just chasing after the image. Combined with that, I think it's important to look at emotional health.

Is this someone who is willing to have conversations with me, communicate with me over tough issues? Now I've got to back the train up for a second. Am I willing to talk about emotionally tough issues and bring them up? Can I be the one that brings them up? Even if she hurt me, that's not the point. The point is if God is calling me to be the man that He's calling me to be, it's my job. Even if she hurts me, I'm the one that needs to circle back and go, "Hey, you know what, we're disconnected here. Can we talk this through?" Whoever's fault it is is irrelevant, even though we love to make it fair. God's economy is not fair.

But if we're not able to talk it through, that's a red flag. No matter how cute she is or how cute you are, that's not going to get you through if you're not able to learn how to talk through the tough issues, the disagreements, the differences of opinion, the different ways of handling something. You have to be willing and able to talk through those things and own mistakes. If I've hurt you, if I've done something wrong, can I own it and apologize and make amends? Can she? Can we do that together as a couple? If we're not doing that, that's going to cause a lot of pain down the road. That shows where we are in our walk.

But taking it back to the emotional piece, guys have a tendency—and I hate universalisms, but I'm going to violate my own rules—so many guys have difficulty being aware of their own emotions. We're constantly teaching emotional awareness. It's an emotional awareness of, "We cannot adequately know our romantic relationship if I don't know myself." How can you share your heart with someone if you've never examined your heart? You don't know what you actually feel. I know physically, okay, my heart flutters when she touches my hand, I get butterflies when I'm thinking about giving her a kiss or whatever those physical things are. But what we're talking about here is the intangible piece of my heart, knowing me so that I can know her. I can't know her if I don't know me. A lot of times we get that backwards because we put the physical relationship before the emotional relationship.

JJ West: One other thing I would add to this, even though this still comes under the heading of character, I believe it deserves its own category, and that's humility. If there is humility, if there's a humble heart there, boy, that serves in so many different ways. Because when there's humility, you can grow. When there's humility, you can learn. When there's humility, you can repent. When there's humility, you can own your stuff. Do you see humility? Every single one of these things that we've talked about, do you see it in her, and do you see it in you? Because if there's not humility there, I've got to go back to the drawing board and work on me so that I'm ready to be in a relationship.

Doug Barnes: One of the ways that we can get to that is the feedback from those around us. When we talk about having pride or being prideful or full of ourselves or selfish or anything to do with the self, when someone else mentions that, do I immediately get defensive? Or do I go, "You know what, thank you for that. I might need to look at that."

Then actively go off and process that and actively look to it, because other people see it before we become aware of it. That's where humility is. Can I be humble enough to accept someone's view of how I'm coming across? Because that's how they see me. Can I ask for it? Can I go to others and say, "Can you help me? I want to work on my pride, I want to work on my humility, my patience, whatever. Can you help me see how I come across? When I'm in this particular scenario, what does that look like from an outsider's perspective so that I can grow?"

Those are great mentoring questions. Going back to last episode, I need guys that will be able to show that to me and get in my face lovingly and say, "You're kind of getting a little too big for your britches." That's the self becoming greater than being able to serve.

JJ West: I think it goes both ways. I need that input from others to understand whether I'm humble, whether I'm growing. I also need to hear from the perspective of others about a potential partner. I can't just rely on their self-data. How do her brothers and sisters talk about her? How do her parents talk about her? How do her friends talk about her? How do her mentors talk about her? They're going to see a different perspective of her than you are because you have love goggles. You're not going to see a clear picture. So when you get that feedback from others, it's giving you a better, more full picture of who she is. And vice versa, she should be asking those same questions of your siblings, your parents, your mentor, your friends, and to be open enough to say, "Yeah, talk to Jim. He knows me. He'd be happy to talk to you about how I come across, how I go swimming, how I go to work, how I play pool, whatever."

Doug Barnes: Our friend Laura says we can only love to the capacity that we have love on board. She mentions that at Intimacy in Marriage. This last one that I attended, that hit me really hard. How much love do I have? Not just eros, not just physical, but how do I genuinely love and serve others not to get something in return, but as a way of just expressing love to somebody else just because of who they are, not because I'm going to get anything from them. I think that's really important in a relationship as well.

Guest (Male): You all have done me an excellent service through this referral network of counselors. For over 35 years, New Life has been the most trusted name in Christian counseling. I found a counselor through New Life Ministries and it's just been outstanding. If you need a counselor, whether in person or virtually, New Life can help. We have a nationwide network of licensed Christian counselors. Call us today at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. That's 1-800-639-5433. To get someone that's competent, that's good at what they do, it's been like day and night compared to what I've had before. 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

JJ West: I said in the last episode I talked about how my wife and I met at the Atlanta Urban Project. At the Atlanta Urban Project, what we were doing was running day camps for kids in inner city. Not then wife, not even girlfriend, not even dating partner, just my friend got to watch me interact with young kids. She got to see me displaying the character of God in the way that I interacted with these young kids. And it was genuine. Because again, I was there to serve those kids and to love on those kids. It allowed her to see me in that environment, and I got to see her in that environment. That was huge.

Doug Barnes: That's awesome.

JJ West: So let's talk about if you could do it over again. If you could go back in time, what would you do differently? For me, I was chasing feelings, I was chasing passion. It was about finding someone who made me feel good. If they made me feel good in some way, then, "Oh, this must be love. I'm supposed to pursue this relationship because they make me feel so good about me." It's so empty because it doesn't last. It's okay for that to be in the mix. I'm not saying you should never feel good about being with the person that you love. Of course, it feels good. But we have to mature into a deeper love where there is character building, where there is a commitment to owning our stuff and being vulnerable and all the things. What about for you?

Doug Barnes: It's a little bit like that. Knowing what I know now, especially about the way that I attached to people, as I look back over my life, so many of the girls that I was interested in, I wasn't interested in them because of them. I was interested in them because they made themselves available to me. It's almost like they were chasing me. I made someone chase me, again, because of how it made me feel. It made me significant. Validation. I felt like "the guy." My wife was the first one where I chose to work for it. I wanted her to see the real me. I didn't want her to see all of the mask that I put on. I didn't want her just to show up to make me feel good about me. I would go back and I would do some real hard character work to be confident in who I am, not have them almost put medication on the wound and cover it out of "love will cover all of that." That never works.

JJ West: I have to add one more, and it's so similar to that. So much of my dating life was walking around with my report card, handing it to every woman that I thought was attractive and saying, "Fill this out and tell me what you think of me. Tell me who I am." If I could go back to my younger self, I would have said, "You need to take that report card to God and let Him tell you who you are so that then when you show up into a relationship, you already know who you are. You're not looking for her to define you. You're looking to offer who you already know you are to the other person." That was a hard-earned wisdom. Women can feel that. When you're coming to them with your report card, it's almost like you're coming to them with your umbilical cord looking to plug it into them. "I need nourishment, sustenance from you." You feel real needy at that point. If you do the work ahead of time of working on you, now you've got something to offer.

Doug Barnes: We only learn about being men in the company of men, not in the company of women. I had that backwards because I wanted them to tell me, and I couldn't do that until I actually got into groups of with men. Now we're sharpening each other, iron versus iron, as opposed to poppies just blowing in the wind. This now got hard, and but that was where a lot about me changed in those relationships.

JJ West: Now this isn't something like that I would change, but I wish I knew beforehand. I so thought marriage was like this thing that was fulfillment, it was going to be wonderful and magical. Really what it is is this sanctification process. It's a tool that God uses to sanctify us. It's still wonderful and all of that, but ultimately it's a tool He uses to sanctify us.

I never knew how selfish I was until I got married. I didn't know how impatient I was until I got married. I didn't know how self-centered I was. Marriage is a cauldron where they are smelting fine metals. How are fine metals refined? They’re refined by heat. Then the impurities rise to the surface. That’s what marriage is. It’s this heat that causes all the impurities to rise to the surface.

If I knew that ahead of time, it would have helped me avoid surprises like, "Oh, of course this is happening because we are living in close proximity." Then I would have the grace to go, "Yeah, as these impurities rise to the surface, God's doing that because He loves us and He wants to skim those impurities away." Not because it's your fault, not because you're just a big meanie and a jerk and a stupid face. Why are you talking to me that way? Why are you acting that way? Well, it's because of that heat. God's trying to refine us so that we can more accurately reflect who He is and be leaders in our home.

Doug Barnes: I've been married 33 and a half years, and I'm still learning how to do that.

JJ West: We're coming up on 29 in a few months. It's still a learning process. I hope you guys have benefited from this. Again, this was just to model, "Okay, we've got a couple of old dudes who, we've learned a few things painfully, and so we want to pass that on to some younger guys." We're calling the older guys in the audience to do the same. Tell your story. Step up, find some younger men, pour into them, mentor them to help them know what to be looking for so that we're all finding what matters together.

Next time we meet, we are going to continue our series where we're helping you meet the facilitators that serve at the Every Man's Battle Intensive. We're going to have Joe Elliott on, and I can't wait for you guys to hear his story and get to know him. He is fantastic. Some of you guys, if you are on the email list at EMBpodcast@newlife.com, you've seen some bonus content from him and Eric before, so you're already familiar with Joe.

But if you're not on the EMB email list, you need to get on it because there's bonus content that comes out, and that's really where we get feedback from the audience on crafting the next season's episodes so that we're giving you the things that you're looking for, we're answering the questions that you're asking. Please take some time to do that. Until we meet again, let's continue to walk in integrity.

Guest (Male): Thanks for listening. This podcast is one of many ways we can encourage and help you. If you're looking for more help, visit us at newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. To receive bonus content exclusive to EMB podcast email subscribers, send an email to EMBpodcast@newlife.com with the words "bonus content" in the subject line. If you have a comment about this podcast, we'd love to hear from you too. Drop us a line at EMBpodcast@newlife.com and please remember to review, like, and share the podcast as it helps others find us. See you next week.