Every Man’s Battle Podcast

New Life: Welcome to the Every Man’s Battle Podcast brought to you by New Life Ministries. In this podcast, you’ll hear honest conversations and encouragement for living a life of sexual integrity. In every episode, licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West and licensed professional counselor Doug Barnes break the silence around sexual integrity struggles that millions of men face but rarely discuss openly. Each episode offers practical strategies and genuine hope to dissolve the shame and isolation that keeps men trapped in destructive cycles. Let’s get to today’s episode.

JJ West: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Every Man’s Battle Podcast. Thanks again for listening. We’re so glad that you’re here, and we’re so glad that we get to tackle a really important topic today. We’re going to be talking about how do we respond when another brother is calling and he’s in crisis? He’s struggling. He’s having a really difficult time in his recovery.

What do you do as another brother, as a member of the herd? How is it that you’re supposed to help him? Because let’s face it, most of the guys who are in our recovery groups are not trained licensed professional counselors, and so they may feel like they’re out of their depth. What do I do and how do I handle this? Doug, I’m so excited to be on with you again.

Doug Barnes: Another happy podcasting day for us. All kinds of fun to be had.

JJ West: That’s right. It’s going to be a great day. We’re going to jump right into it. We hope that this is helpful to you. If there are things that we share today that are confusing or you have more questions about, please send us an email to EMBpodcast@newlife.com. If you send us an email, we will respond. We’re going to base future episodes on that feedback.

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Let’s dive in. You get a call or you get the SOS text that one of the brothers in your group, maybe a guy that you’ve been doing check-ins with, says, "Man, I’m not doing well. I’m struggling. I have been acting out for the last 48 hours and I’m a mess. I feel like I’m back as bad as I was before I went to Every Man’s Battle." He’s struggling. How do we respond?

Before we give some very practical tips, I think it’s important to take a step back and look at some important truths that we need to understand as we’re coming alongside someone who’s struggling. Probably the most important thing is that we talk about at the workshop: the importance of establishing a no-shame zone. No matter what your story of brokenness is that brought you into the workshop, there’s no shame.

There’s not going to be a "Well, it’s okay if that’s your struggle, but if that’s your struggle, we’re going to reject you or not talk to you." That same no-shame zone that we establish at the workshop and in our breakout groups continues on. It extends out into our recovery groups and our check-in calls. We start there. When I get that call that somebody is struggling, my first response is, "Thank you for sharing that with me. You are loved. You’re accepted."

Even if this is the hundredth time or the thousandth time, and he thinks, "I know all the things I’m supposed to do because I went to the workshop and I read the books and I’ve been to the groups." Yes, okay, and you’re still loved. You’re still accepted. You’re still a brother. You’re still a part of the herd. We start there.

Doug Barnes: 100 percent. Because a lot of times there’s an expectation when I don’t call. There’s an automatic expectation of, "Uh-oh, what will they say? How will I be judged, humiliated, left, scolded, or finger-pointed?" whatever that might be. So yes, loved and valued.

JJ West: Which is why so many times when guys are in crisis, they’re not calling. They don’t reach out because they expect that they’re going to receive that judgment, criticism, and shame. We want to make sure that we’re leaning hard out the other side of the boat. It’s like those catamarans where they’re up on one hull and there’s a guy or two guys wired in and they’re leaning way out the other side of the boat to keep it from tipping.

That’s what we’re trying to do because the boat has been leaning toward judgment, criticism, and shame. Quite frankly, if we’re honest, a lot of our church experience has been that lean heavily toward judgment and shame. We want to lean way out the other side of the boat to say you are loved, you are accepted, and you are honored for asking for help. This is a safe place. This is a no-shame zone.

That kind of leads us into a second point. Once I’ve said you’re loved and accepted, and the no-shame zone continues, I remind him who he is. I remind him that he’s a good man. I remind him that he is loved and accepted by God. I remind him that the fact that he is even making the call indicates that he wants freedom and life because it’s so easy when I’m in crisis to believe, "Oh, this is the real me."

Doug Barnes: Right, which makes me go back to hiding and isolating and being alone, which just permeates all of what got me there in the first place.

JJ West: Exactly. We want to keep doing that. It is a great metaphor from some high school stories of a friend of mine who had a catamaran and we did just that. It’s a pretty exhilarating experience to be on that side of the boat out of the water that way, flying across the lake.

We want him to know that he is infinitely loved and dearly valued by the other guy on the phone and to know that what he’s done is a crucial step in recovery. It’s reaching out. Now we’re going to weave in the practical along with the theoretical truths that guide us. One of the practical applications for me is I don’t start with advice.

In fact, I don’t offer advice. We don’t want to give advice. What do I have to do instead? I need to listen. I don’t need to be offering solutions or saying, "here’s what you do to fix it." I want to give some space for him to be able to tell me the story. Quick to listen, slow to speak.

Doug Barnes: Correct. Being quick to listen is not only shutting up and listening, although that’s part of it. But being quick to listen is also learning how to ask good questions that probe deeper into the story. It’s not "Oh, yeah, I understand that, so here’s what I did and that fixes it." It’s, "Okay, so you’re struggling. Let’s talk about why you’re struggling. Let’s talk about what’s going on."

Let’s talk about all of the things that led up, all of those micro-decisions that led up to the macro outcome. What were the emotions? What were the triggers that were leading to those micro-decisions? I want to be asking those questions. Tell me about it. Tell me what happened. Sometimes questions can come in the form of, "Well, why did you mess up? Why did you do this?" as opposed to, "What was happening in your world that led to this?"

I talk with my guys about this and I try to teach this as often as I can: be curious to understand, not condemn. I want to understand the dynamics. Is there a negative narrative of shame? Is there a boundary that was missed or did a trigger come up out of nowhere that I haven’t even considered on my list? Where did I get sideways? Something happened. Let’s just unpack that. Tell me the story behind it. Let me hear.

JJ West: There’s a great quote by Walt Whitman that gets quoted in the TV show *Ted Lasso* that says, "Be curious, not judgmental." That’s what we’re talking about here. Asking questions and learning to listen instead of offering advice or trying to fix. That is me being curious, not judgmental. In that curiousness, we’re going to hear the story more than just, "Well, I crossed a primary boundary."

Sometimes guys make these calls because of their accountability software list. When someone’s acting out, I can see where he’s going and I’m on pins and needles waiting for him to call me and saying, "Hey, I haven’t been completely truthful." Then we start walking through the story of, "Okay, how did you get in front of a computer or your phone and end up five websites down?"

When I’m quick to listen and ask those questions, it helps that guy to see all those steps. I was talking with a client earlier today about the fact that sin so often is like a magnetic or gravitational force. The closer I get to it, the stronger the force is. We get to a point where it feels as though it is inevitable and I can’t stop myself. There’s a point where it feels so strong that I just get sucked right in.

Doug Barnes: Right. That’s what we need to unpack. Asking questions and being quick to listen helps him to see, "Oh, yeah, I was feeling incompetent on Tuesday and I wasn’t really paying attention to it. I was just getting work done. Then I made a decision to stay late at the office and watch an episode of ESPN. That started the process. The next day there was another decision. Then Friday afternoon I was online."

We want to ask those good questions. As he’s telling his story and making those recognitions, it’s really important to recognize and stand with your brother. I may not have acted out in the same way, but I share in your weakness. What does that look like to lead by weakness?

For me to be able to say, "I understand that pull. I understand that process of making those decisions that lead to the magnetic force that sucks me in. I know what that feels like because I’ve done it so many times in my life." I’m coming alongside you as a brother who understands, not coming alongside you as someone who has figured it all out and is waiting for you to get your act together.

There’s a validation process more than just, "Hey, I got it. Let’s move on." It’s, "Wow, okay. This happened to me, so my gut is wrenching here because I’m with you. I feel where you’re at." It’s that validation. That’s where empathy comes in. I’m recognizing that pain that you’re in. I’m recognizing that feeling of hopelessness that you’re experiencing. I recognize that when I’ve let all of that internal stuff build up and then it just explodes into brokenness, I recognize that and I’m longing for your freedom too.

JJ West: That’s where we come alongside our brothers and now we’re locked arm in arm. How good and pleasant it is when brothers come together. We’re locking arms and walking with them saying, "I’m not going to let you fall again. Let’s go." That kind of leads us to the next main point, which is that we offer compassion.

We start with listening and empathy, but then that moves us into compassion. Compassion is a combination of grace and truth. This is what Scripture teaches us: sharing the truth in love and being full of grace and truth. If I have truth without love, it kills. And if I have love without truth, it lies. I want to have both. I need to have grace and truth as I respond.

Grace is that no-shame, I hear you, I’m walking with you as a brother. I understand what you’re going through and I have my own failures. I have that grace, but then I also offer truth. "Okay, let’s talk about all those little micro-decisions that you made and all of those places where you weren’t paying attention to what you were feeling that then led to the magnetic pull. Let’s talk about the truth that needs to change so that you get to freedom along the way."

Sometimes we forget who we’re talking to on the phone. We forget that they’re the one that’s telling us. They know they’ve acted out. It’s not like we have this revelatory information that says, "Oh, I’ve found the answer." Our job is to come alongside and work this out together. We help them unpack what’s already known but maybe not known at the cognitive level of making changes.

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JJ West: We listen, we extend that no-shame zone, and we have empathy and compassion full of grace and truth. That then allows us to point to hope in redemption. There is a way out. There is hope. I don’t have to stay here in my brokenness. God doesn’t want me to stay here. God wants me to experience life.

Jesus said, "I have come that you would have life and have it to the full." That’s what God wants. And he says it in contrast to the thief. This is John 10. There’s a thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy. That’s his M.O. He does that primarily through shame, where we’re in this crisis feeling like we can’t get it together.

But Jesus says I don’t want you to live there because that’s not living. I want to lead you to redemption and abundant life. We as the brother can point to that. Not "Oh, well, there’s this five-step process" but simply pointing to a God who is at work, who loves you and wants more for you.

So often this is a place where guys get hung up in shame. They get stuck. It’s like quicksand that draws us to a stop because sometimes it’s hard to have hope when the pattern seems to repeat itself. When the magnets get close to each other, it’s like, "Here I am again."

We get stuck in the shame of "I’m a failure. Failed again." This is a really important part of being the brother on the other end: to say, "Hey, no, this is not the end. This is a new beginning." We’re going to work on now how we reverse this. How do we repent and get out of this?

Doug Barnes: Doug, talk about that. Practically speaking, once we’ve kind of cast that redemption, how do we move the guy from "I feel stuck" to "Okay, what practical step can I make right now today that moves me a step away from that magnetic pull?"

One way is to call it what it is. Let’s be concrete. Let’s look at those tangible steps that led us there and see how I can take one of those and get some information around it. What happened? Where did I miss? Where did I left-turn when I should have taken a right-turn?

I think the first step is actually prayer, but looking at what we can be tangible about. Let’s be concrete. It’s not "Hey Doc, it hurts when I do that. Well, don’t do that." That’s not practical. How about before I take any steps at all, I text my group? That’s something that’s practical.

I’m clearing some real estate in my head and inviting others into the process. The herd. It’s getting a step ahead of where I made the decision. Now I’ve got six other opinions weighing in on a possible decision that I made in error last time. They can be a gentle reminder of, "Okay, text me when you get home" or "Text me when you get to the car."

JJ West: I’ve heard you ask the guy the question, "What kind of man do you want to be?" because I know that was a question that was asked of you early on in recovery. I think that’s such a powerful question because it’s not "I’m coming with great wisdom to dispense to you to get you out of this mess."

I’m calling out something in you that you might not be aware is there: this desire for freedom and life. What kind of man do you want to be? What kind of husband? Asking that question makes a guy think, "All right, if I want to be the man who is walking in integrity and loving his wife faithfully, what are the changes then that I need to make in all those little micro-decisions?" We have to change those micro-decisions in order for there to be a different macro outcome.

Doug Barnes: Right, because I have agency in that. I’m not a robot. I’m not condemned to repeat what I’ve done. I can make those good micro-decisions. As a brother on the other end of the line, I can speak that into him. You can make these good decisions. You have a choice. It’s time to make those good choices.

I love that. I think that there’s also an important question that we ask, which is, "What do you need from me?" How can I be helpful? What can I do to serve you as you’re making those micro-decisions to pull away from the magnet of sin? It might be, "Hey, I really need to do a daily check-in with you for the next few weeks."

Giving me some practical ways to respond instead of having to fill in the blank for him. I am not destined to act out. God is calling us to walk as brothers. One of the first answers is, "Just pray for me." I think that’s a given. Let’s go deeper. Let’s make something concrete here.

JJ West: I would even add, "What is it you want me to pray for you?" Because of course I want to pray for you. "Well, that I won’t act out." All right, I’ll pray that you won’t act out, but let’s go even deeper. Based on all the things that we just highlighted, where do you think would be the most effective prayer?

Then we can check in on that. It’s not just I’m saying this prayer in my closet, but I’m following up with the practical application that I can be the answer to that prayer. There’s accountability in that too. The next day on our check-in call I can say, "Hey, I prayed for you. I can check in with that practical step and see how we did."

In summary, it’s not about fixing him. If I’m on the other end of the phone with the brother who’s struggling, none of what we talked about is fixing him or giving him this epiphany. It’s all about creating a safe space for him to be honest, for him to be real, and for him to tell the truth.

When we say at Every Man’s Battle that it is the safest place for us to be us, we need to recreate that space on that phone call. For the people in the audience who are thinking, "I feel like I need to say something to him that’s going to solve it for him," that’s not your role. That is not your superpower.

Your superpower is way better. Your superpower is to come alongside him, give him that safe space to tell the truth, and remind him he’s not alone. Then you get to be the hands and feet of Jesus in that moment. A sweet place to be.

Here’s my call. Listen to this podcast again because you’re not going to catch everything the first time. Listen to it again and take some notes. Pay attention to what are the overarching themes and practical ways that I can respond to a brother in crisis, because it’s going to happen.

This episode is to help you have a way to respond and be that guy who says, "I’m right here with you and this is a safe place." Doug, as always, what a pleasure to be on with you.

Doug Barnes: Yeah, you too. Sweet time. This was really good. It was a lot to digest.

JJ West: It was. I hope it’s practical for you guys. Again, thank you for listening. We are excited about how God is going to use this moving forward to help us all be a safer, more healing community for his kingdom and for his glory. Until next time, guys, keep listening and let’s keep walking in integrity.

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