Destined for Victory

Paul Sheppard: There are churches that are still trying to figure out whether it's appropriate to be boisterous in worship, to sing loudly and to dance and to shout. You have the right to worship the way you want to worship. What you don't have the right to do is judge someone else's style of worship as wrong.

Guest (Male): Worship is more than an act. It's an attitude. Hello and thanks for spending part of your busy day here with us on Destined for Victory with Pastor Paul Sheppard. The Bible talks about praising God with the trumpet, with the lute and harp, with loud cymbals, and with dance. And yet these and other forms of worship are often criticized.

Stay with us now to see the damage we can do by condemning forms of worship that are different from our own. Online you'll find us at pastorpaul.net where you can listen to Destined for Victory on demand. That's pastorpaul.net. Subscribe to the podcast at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you enjoy your podcasts. Now here's today's Destined for Victory message, "Can't We All Just Get Along?"

Paul Sheppard: I've told the story when I was coming up that was right when the first debates were beginning about whether it was okay to bring drums and stuff up in churches. Here we were young people and getting saved in the late '60s and early '70s. That's when it was first becoming an issue.

Certainly in the early '70s, I was personally exposed to some of that as some of us were getting saved. We had to sing the hymns because that's what the saints sang in service. But we were beginning to get exposed to some of this new gospel contemporary music. Andrae Crouch and the Disciples were coming out, Edwin Hawkins and them with "Oh Happy Day," and stuff like that.

As young folk, we got excited. We said, "We want to sing that." We went to the pastor and said, "We're just getting saved. Can we form a little youth choir and we want to sing some of those songs?" He said, "Well, let me listen to them." He listened to them and heard that the lyrics were about Jesus, but it had a contemporary sound. He said, "Yeah, no, this will be fine. I've always appreciated different styles of music." We said, "Now we need drums for this, need drums for this and bass guitar and stuff like that."

He said, "All right, yes, let's go on and do that. Now that's going to be new for our church, but I'll help the saints deal with it." My dad's mother was a member of his church and she was one of those old saints. My grandmother was the kind of person where when you looked at her, you knew she was saved. There's just no question when you look at her and say, "Now she's got to be saved. No way in the world she's worldly."

My grandmother was an old-fashioned child of God. The day came when the youth choir was debuting our music and we had the drums. When she heard about it, she went to her pastor, who was also her son, and she said, "You mean you're going to bring drums up in the church?" He said, "Yes, Mama. Some of these young folk getting saved and they have some songs they want to sing. The songs are about Jesus, but they need drums."

She was one of those nice saints who knew you're supposed to respect the leadership. So she said, "All right." She sat there through that first service where we sang our songs and the drums were played. She went to the drummer after the service, who was a friend of mine, and she said, "Listen, young man. I want to let you know that I was really disturbed when I heard there were going to be drums in this church. But I have to admit, as I sat here, I found myself patting my foot. I found myself really engaged in the music and I have to admit I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed that you don't play them too loudly."

She was trying to tell him that as long as you hold that volume, we won't have a problem. If you take it up, we will. Our church learned to adapt and rolled right on. What it did was allow us to reach more people with the same gospel that was in the hymns, but it allowed us to reach more people without compromising anything of essential faith.

We have to learn those kinds of lessons. Now, of course, we who were the recipients of that kind of grace and the saints let us bring in our drums and guitars and stuff, now we're challenged all over again because now you've got hip-hop. You go up to youth church, at Generation Examples church, and sometimes they'll have in addition to their praise and worship, hip-hop. Folk rapping for Jesus.

They're running all around saying, "Everybody say ho, hey ho, ho." That's not our—we didn't cut our teeth on that. Our position for the most part is we stand there looking at them saying, "What are you running around for? Everybody scream. I don't feel like screaming."

So now we're challenged. We're becoming the generation that isn't quite sure what's going on. But I have given the same grace to them that was given to me. I said as long as you all keep the lyrics clearly Jesus and you're letting your light shine, go for it. Reach your generation. Reach your generation and we'll be behind you 100% because we have to understand that these are not essentials.

In some other churches, it's Christian rock that is the point of contention. Some friends of mine who pastor in another part of the country, that's their challenge. Their young people didn't want to do rap, but their culture was rock. Just real loud guitars and just screaming the lyrics and stuff like that. But they learned to adjust too.

In fact, one of my friends, the pastor's wife, she said, "Yeah, in fact, I'm excited myself. My son is the lead screamer." She called him the lead screamer. That was just his job, just hollering for Jesus. You get challenged at these points because you find out how with it you're not sometimes. You deal with other generations, other cultures. The church loves fighting worship wars. We need to end worship wars and respect everyone and let everyone have a little piece of the pie, so to speak, without saying your stuff is wrong.

We have to learn how to do that. There are churches that are still trying to figure out whether it's appropriate to be boisterous in worship, to sing loudly and dance and shout to the Lord with the voice of triumph and to say amen when the word is being proclaimed. Some folk are still trying to figure that out. We've been doing it for decades and they're still trying to figure out is it okay.

Some still try to cling to one verse of scripture, "The Lord is in his holy temple. Let all the earth keep silent before him." They try to use that to impose their style of worship. Now when you come up in this church, don't be saying amen and don't be singing and waving your hand. We don't do that here. Well fine, you have the right to worship the way you want to worship. What you don't have the right to do is judge someone else's style of worship as wrong.

In our church, we have quiet folk and we have loud folk. That's because in the kingdom, you have quiet folk and loud folk. So the church ought to reflect the kingdom. We have folk who came to this church and if they had any church exposure in their upbringing, it was very often some of those very quiet churches.

Some folk say when I first came here, I had to make some adjustments with folk waving their hand and some of them dancing to certain songs and people shouting out their praises. I said thank God for adjustments. Adjust on. Because you can't impose on other people.

If you think our church is loud, I can take you some places. I just thought I'd let you know when you say it gets kind of boisterous sometimes, that's relative. That's relative to your experience. Go with me a few places. I've been places where they will take over the service. You sing the wrong chorus and you messed up. They will take over. They will be dancing and running and skipping and carrying on for a long time.

I'm sitting there. I want to preach. Can't get to the message because they're worshipping and rejoicing in the God of their salvation. A friend of mine said the most powerful experience in worship I ever had, I was an arrogant Christian and American Christian and just thought we had it all. But I went to Africa and went to a church in an African village and she said it changed my life.

I saw people who had walked for hours to get to church. When they got there, they stood for hours. The way they worshipped, the energy with which they praised God. They didn't have my kind of clothes, they didn't have money, they didn't drive up in a nice car, but they were so grateful that God had saved their souls, that he had changed their lives.

Their music was powerful. They were anointed as they praised God. His presence came near and she said I thought I was coming here to teach them how to worship and they taught me how to worship.

Guest (Male): Don't go away. The rest of today's Destined for Victory message featuring Pastor Paul Sheppard is coming right up. In John 8:32, Jesus said that the truth could set us free. That's why Destined for Victory is here, to share timeless truth for a victorious life and to show as best we can that Jesus Christ is exactly who he claimed to be.

You can help keep these messages coming your way by sending a generous gift today. Stop by pastorpaul.net to make a safe and secure donation online. That's pastorpaul.net. Or call 855-339-5500. Whether we worship God with instruments or without, let's remember that when it comes to worshipping God through music, the most important organ is the human heart. Now let's listen close to the rest of today's Destined for Victory message, "Can't We All Just Get Along?"

Paul Sheppard: There's worship, the quiet reverence of God, and some loud folk need to learn how to do that. They're good at praise, but they need to learn worship. Worship you don't make a whole bunch of noise. You take in the awesome presence of God. You worship his majesty. You're in the presence of royalty.

As you sing songs of worship and pray prayers of worship, there's quiet reverence and awe there. So if you're a saint who's always noisy, then teach yourself the other side of the coin, how to sometimes just get into God's presence. Because when his presence comes near, sometimes you don't know what to say. Words don't come easily and you just bask in the awesomeness of who he is.

Some folk who are good at worship need to learn how to loosen up and praise. If you're not loud by personality and temperament, I'm not suggesting that you have to become loud, but you ought to praise in some kind of way. Read the Psalms. There's all kinds of ways you can praise God. Pick a few of them and praise him.

If you're not one that yells loudly and screams the praises of God, then find some way to offer your verbal praise to God. Lord, I bless you and praise you for who you are and what you've done. Don't get more excited at a game than you do about Jesus. Just make up in your mind you won't do it.

If you get excited about basketball or baseball or tennis or whatever it is, then get excited that much more about the one who saved your soul and changed your life. I have seen those kinds of hypocrites in church, not you, but people on your row who say it's just my personality, that's why I don't join in when the boisterous praise goes on.

Then you go to a game with them and they lose their natural minds. No, you just taught yourself how, or your environment taught you how to make a false distinction between your outside persona and your church persona. I want to challenge you. Learn how to marry them and be who you are in the presence of God. Because when you think of the goodness of Jesus and all he's done for you, even if you don't holler, you ought to cry out of one eye. Do something. Wiggle a foot. Do something. Let God know that you appreciate who he is and what he's done in your life.

We have to learn to avoid arrogance. Arrogance is killing the church of Jesus Christ. Arrogance is preventing us from being what we could be before God and as a witness to the world. We've got to make up in our minds that yes, we stand our ground on essential Christian faith. Beyond that, we are free to understand that not everyone is going to share our personal convictions.

You know what it does? It really creates beauty among God's people. Because in our diversity, you have strengths balancing out weaknesses. You'd be lopsided unless there were some folk who could show you other dimensions, who could expand your thinking and help you understand that you live in too narrow a focus sometimes.

God wants to expand, enlarge your territory, to use the Jabez language. God wants to enlarge your territory. So he'll hook you up with people who can help you see other dimensions of how to walk with God, how to serve him, how to love him. You ever met somebody who challenges you? The way they witness just challenges you. The way they serve just challenges you. The way they give just challenges you. On and on. And so God uses difference for his glory if we'll allow him to do it.

So we've got to deal with these kinds of things. The poverty versus wealth issue. A minister friend of mine, I heard him teach that very emphatically at a conference where both of us were speaking. He said all believers ought to live just with the bare necessities and everything else needs to be distributed to help other people and given into ministry. Just bare necessities.

He was very specific about the way we were all supposed to live and the size of house you were supposed to live in and the kind of car you're supposed to drive and clothes shouldn't be expensive. Just on and on. I said my lord, he got a different Bible than I have. I wanted to go up to him afterwards and say what translation is that? But of course I knew not to go because I knew it wasn't a translation issue.

They were personal preferences and personal scruples, personal convictions. He has every right to them. But don't tell me how I'm supposed to live, what standard of living, where the word hasn't told me. Because I'm subject to the word. I'm not subject to your opinion. You hold it with all your faith, with all your might. Hold that position.

You believe Christians shouldn't endorse affluence? You hold that position. But I know some affluent folk who love God with all of their hearts. They are generous in distributing and being a blessing to others. As one who leads two ministries, a church ministry and a radio ministry, both of which need a lot of money to do what God's called them to do, I've learned to appreciate it when people have little and give generously and sacrificially. But also to appreciate when people have much and give generously and sacrificially. Because that much can help you pay some bills.

I'm a witness. It can help you when you teach affluent people how to worship and be kingdom first in their living, but it can pay some bills in Jesus' name. And I'm telling you, we've got to learn that. We had a couple that had a piece of property when we were first beginning to raise the funds for this facility God's blessed us with.

A young couple. God had blessed them and they had a prime piece of land and they were thinking they just assumed one day that they would build a dream house on that prime piece of real estate. They said as they heard the challenge for the building fund and began to pray, Lord what would you want us to do, they began to confer and they said, you know what? God is saying that we need to give that prime piece of real estate. We need to sell it and give the proceeds to the church so that they can build that facility for God.

We don't need a dream house or God will give us another one. We're going to give it to God. When they sold that property and that check came in that office, I said thank you Jesus. Hundreds of thousands of dollars given to the kingdom so we can have a facility where we can throw out the lifeline and let people know Jesus saves and he changes lives. Somebody with wealth was able to say it means nothing if it's not advancing the kingdom and so we want to be sacrificial.

Now what churches have to learn to do and ministries have to learn to do is not treat people with this world's goods any more special. That's where the challenge comes in. Because sometimes you're so busy looking at the bills that certain folk can pay with their tithes versus what other folk pay with their tithes, and you've got to understand that's not God's way of looking at it.

You appreciate the generosity of everybody. And that's my problem I have with some ministries that always set a particular amount that everybody needs to give. I don't impugn their motive, but I couldn't have a $500 line and everyone gets in this one with 500 then we pray a blessing over you. I couldn't personally do it.

I have some of my best friends raise money like that. I'm not being facetious. That's absolutely true. So I don't impugn their motive. I know they're men of God. But I couldn't do it. The reason why I couldn't do it is because if you have somebody on a fixed income, a limited, limited amount of money, what is sacrificial for them may be far short of 500. But if they give a sacrificial generous offering out of what they have, God sees it and it registers in heaven.

Because there are other folk who, if you're calling the $500 line and everyone in that one's going to get a special blessing, for some people 500 is nothing. Nothing. They'll blow that in an accidental day at the mall. You know what I'm saying. Day where they just didn't even intend to get anything. Just went there maybe to get a little something and saw a little sale and walk out with $500 worth of clothes. You know as well as I do, there are folk who could do that and not blink.

If we set the amount for the blessing at something that isn't sacrificial for them, you're promising them a special blessing assuming it's a sacrifice and for them it's not a sacrifice at all. For them they'd have to give 50,000 for it to be a sacrifice. But if you set your arbitrary amount, and then you've got some widow, what if Jesus had called a $500 line? The widow with the mite couldn't have gotten in it.

I'm just trying to help you see and think about some of the things that happen in the church world. Again, without impugning the motives of people. We've got to learn that God loves cheerful generosity out of a heart of worship. What that looks like in one person's life may be vastly different than what it looks like in another. But both will be blessed.

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Paul Sheppard: And as the church in the first century in the city of Rome was challenged, so is the church in the 21st century all over the world challenged because there are so many differences among God's people, so many preferences among God's people that we must learn not to use our preferences and our differences to create division.

Guest (Male): That's next time in our continued message, "Can't We All Just Get Along?" I hope you'll join us. But until then, remember, he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion. In Christ, you are destined for victory.