Defending Faith, Family and Freedom Podcast

Gary Bauer: Welcome, this is Gary Bauer, Senior Vice President for Public Policy and Culture at the James Dobson Family Institute. Glad you could be here for our podcast, Defending Faith, Family and Freedom. Please tell your friends about us.

Well, this is going to be short and sweet. It's kind of a good news story, and you know there's not a lot of good news out there these days. The headlines can be a little depressing, but this truly is a good news story about the fact that miracles happen. It's also about how important it is for us to have in government people that are committed to ending Christian persecution. We are fortunate right now to have an administration in Washington, D.C., that fits that category.

Now, before I get to the good news, let me give you just a little bit of background. You probably already know this, but it's kind of important to be reminded of it. We have religious freedom here in America, although it's got to always be protected. Each new generation has to fight the battle again, and in recent years, there have been threats to our religious liberty. When President Trump came back in, that ended. His administration is committed to making sure that religious liberty is strong in the United States and that Christians particularly can speak up without fear of being persecuted.

Around the world, it's quite different. Mostly in Islamic countries or communist countries, Christians are routinely persecuted, sometimes killed. Literally. The estimates are that in Nigeria every couple of minutes, a Christian is killed because of his faith. One of the worst persecutors in the world is Communist China. Way back in 2016, Chairman Xi ordered all the churches in China to completely submit to the Communist Party. Churches are licensed in Communist China and the pastors are required to teach Communist Party ideology as part of their sermons. That's unbelievable.

We take it so much for granted that that can't happen here, but it happens around the world all the time. How bad does it get? Listen to this. Churches were ordered to take down crosses and pictures of Jesus and replace them with pictures of Chairman Xi. Many Chinese Christians rejected these orders. Think of the courage that took. They started underground churches. One of the most influential ones, or one that got the most attention, was a church called Zion Church.

Zion Church grew as Chinese Christians found out that its leaders and its pastor were willing to defy the Communist Party of China. Of course, the faithfulness to the gospel of Jesus Christ made them targets of communist oppression. Not too long ago, Pastor Jen was arrested and thrown into prison. Well, as time went on, people talked about Pastor Jen. There were demonstrations occasionally, but not much was happening. No progress at least that we were aware of.

But then a few months ago, I received a call from Pastor Jen's daughter, who lives here in the United States. Her name is Grace Jen Drexel. As coincidence would have it, Grace attends a church in Washington, D.C. that our oldest daughter, Elise, also attends. So Elise put Grace and me together and Grace called me and told me about her efforts to get her father out of prison. Grace said that she was doing a lot of things, but she was just a normal citizen. She was not a political expert. She was not a foreign policy expert. All she knew was that her dad was in prison in Communist China. He has some health issues, and she was afraid that he could end up not only suffering but dying in prison.

We talked for a long while. I gave her some advice on what she might be able to do. I reminded her, I think she already knew, that I had served on the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, appointed to that commission by President Trump. I promised her that I would call our friends in the White House and our allies that work with us here at the James Dobson Family Institute, and urge the White House to do everything that they could do.

One of the reasons she called me was that President Trump was getting ready to travel to Communist China. There in Communist China, our hope was he would raise Pastor Jen's name with the Communist Chinese authorities. President Trump did that. In fact, when he got back from Communist China, he told reporters and confirmed to reporters that he had raised Pastor Jen's name. The President said, "I'm hopeful. I got some signals from the Chinese leadership that maybe we will hear some good news here."

But then weeks passed and there was no more news. Then on the eve of our July 4th, as we were getting ready to celebrate our freedoms, including the freedom of religion, we received word that Pastor Jen had been put on a plane and had landed in Los Angeles on July 3rd. He went promptly to an In-N-Out Burger place and ate a hamburger. Then he was able to watch the fireworks being set off as America celebrated our 250th birthday as a free nation.

Well, just recently, Pastor Jen and his daughter Grace and his son-in-law were interviewed on the Shannon Bream show on Fox Sunday. It's a relatively short interview. It's about five minutes long. I want to just share that interview with you and I'll make a few comments in between the snippets. So let's begin where Shannon Bream kicks off the show by asking Grace what it was like to find out that her dad had been released.

Shannon Bream: Welcome to all of you. Grace and Bill, when you were here before, this was the dream: that your father would be safe, that he would be released. How do you feel that this is now reality?

Grace Jen Drexel: It truly feels unbelievable. Last time I was still advocating for my father. Thank you so much for giving us the ability to advocate for my father. We just never expected this to happen so quickly, so miraculously. Just being able to show my kids to my father in person... and since then, I've also given birth. To see my father hold on to my newest born member of our family is just so incredible. So incredible.

Gary Bauer: Those last words, "So incredible. So incredible." Can you imagine being this young woman? By the way, she had not seen her father in eight years. She hadn't seen him before he was arrested. She was here in America and he was in Communist China. But then she gets here, she finds out her dad was arrested, she starts fighting to get him out, and now this incredible thing has happened. He's here in the United States. Then Shannon Bream asked the pastor himself about what role does the pastor think President Trump played. Listen to this.

Shannon Bream: Your daughter and son-in-law have done such an amazing job advocating and keeping your story alive. We know that President Trump brought it up with President Xi. My question to you is how important is it for the President to keep advocating for people who are being held? We know at least eight members of your church are still being held.

Pastor Jen: Many people thought that this was not going to be possible, but I also thought that it was impossible when I was in prison. In fact, I'm very grateful for the President for raising my case. The fact that after the President raised my case and everyone spoke out for me, this is why I am here today. I have asked that we can continue to speak out for the persecuted church, especially.

Gary Bauer: Well, there's no doubt in the pastor's mind that President Trump played a role. I'm sure you heard the pastor say that we have to continue to speak out for the persecuted church around the world, and certainly especially in Communist China. Then Shannon Bream directs a question to the son-in-law, Bill Drexel, and what does he think played a major role? Listen to who he names in response to that question.

Shannon Bream: And Bill, how critical was it to have Secretary Rubio talking about this, President Trump talking about this?

Bill Drexel: From the very beginning, Secretary Rubio, even just tweeting so quickly after his initial arrest, we think was huge in the treatment he got in prison. The sustained pressure is really what makes it possible for these sorts of miracles to occur. The fact that they're continuing to push for prisoners of conscience, for those wrongfully detained in China, gives hope to so many families. It's indispensable.

Gary Bauer: I was really glad to hear the son-in-law, Bill Drexel, mention Secretary of State Rubio and also the role that he played, often raising Pastor Jen's name in various international forums and on interviews. We are here at JDFI very close to Secretary of State Rubio. Our daughter worked for Secretary of State Rubio for a number of years. It is a blessing for all Christians around the world to not only have a President of the United States that cares about Christian persecution, but to have a Secretary of State that does too.

The next clip I want to play, I actually think is evidence of the Holy Spirit. Shannon Bream asks the pastor, "What were you feeling in prison during the time leading up to when the pastor ended up being released?" This is amazing. It's very brief. Listen to this.

Shannon Bream: You did not know when your release was coming, but you've talked about how you kept waking up and you had some, in the midst of these prison conditions, some type of joy, some type of hope that was coming in the couple of nights that led up to it. And then the story about you being taken, eventually ending up on this plane not knowing, and then you're sitting there with a U.S. diplomat who's like, "You're going home."

Pastor Jen: To be honest, when I was in prison, even though the conditions were horrible, I slept quite well. For some reason, starting July 1st, I was unable to sleep at night for the entirety of the night. There was just some excitement and a little bit of joy, and there was no reason for it at all. I didn't know anything. No one was telling me anything. But as you said, on July 3rd, I was taken out of the prison very suddenly and given freedom. I think that the Holy Spirit inside me was somehow preparing me for this.

Gary Bauer: Isn't that astonishing? So here you are, you're a pastor. Your church is under persecution. You've been thrown in jail. Nobody is communicating with you. Nobody told the pastor that negotiations were underway. Nobody told him, "Get ready, we're going to release you."

But the pastor says just a few days before his release, he had this sudden sense of peace and joy. He actually had been sleeping okay in prison, probably out of exhaustion, but he was so overwhelmed with this sensation that something was getting ready to happen that he had a night where he didn't sleep at all. Look, I think that was the Holy Spirit. I think God was laying on his heart, "Hang on, pastor. You're going to find your way to freedom."

And then finally, let's listen to Grace again talk about what it was like when she first saw her dad. She had a baby that had been born, obviously, that her father had never seen. Listen to this. It's powerful.

Shannon Bream: Tell us, if you can, what the reunion was like for you all.

Grace Jen Drexel: To be completely honest, I was really not expecting it at all. Even until the very last moment, I was wondering what could go wrong. My father actually came from Air China, a commercial flight, and I was worried that the airplane might turn back in the middle of air or something would happen.

So until he came through that door... and he looked so different. When he walked out, I was like, "I knew it. They gave me the wrong person." But in fact, it was my father. The moment that he came and came close and we were able to hug him was just such an incredible moment because he was physically there now. We haven't seen him in eight years.

Shannon Bream: I just can't call it anything than a huge blessing and a privilege that you now are having this conversation and you're sitting here with us safe and sound. God bless you, Pastor. The prayers for you will continue for those who are still in prison as well.

Grace Jen Drexel: Thank you so much.

Pastor Jen: Thank you.

Gary Bauer: I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when Grace said that when she saw her father, she thought, "Oh no, they've given me the wrong person. They've given me the wrong father." Essentially, she had not seen him for years, and he had been under stress all those years. It showed, no doubt, in his face and his physical condition and his demeanor. Then she realized, yes, that was her dad.

One little final note on this. Our daughter Elise told one of her daughters, her youngest daughter and our granddaughter Eliza, about the pastor and what was happening to him when he was still in Communist China. Eliza decided that she wanted to pray for the pastor, and she did that every night.

So not long ago, the pastor and Eliza were able to meet face to face. I have a beautiful picture of that meeting of the little girl that prayed for him and the pastor who spent time in prison while she was praying for his release. My friends, this is one pastor in one country. There are millions of Christians around the world in places like Communist China, throughout the Islamic world, that are suffering for the faith that we often take for granted here in the United States.

I hope all of us will rededicate ourselves to speaking out for the persecuted church and also rededicate ourselves to being active citizens so that we elect people at every level of government that will make sure that we never have happen in the United States to us as Christians the type of persecution that our brothers and sisters in Christ suffer all over the world. Well, that's it for this episode of Defending Faith, Family and Freedom. Please come back, please tell your friends about us.