Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast

Allen Jackson: Welcome to *Culture & Christianity*. I am delighted to be able to introduce you to David Nasser, my guest today. Iran's in the news, if you've missed that, you have been in a cave somewhere for a few days. David was born there. Welcome to *Culture & Christianity*. Let's start there.

David Nasser: It’s an honor to be with you, Dr. Jackson. Thanks for having me.

Allen Jackson: And you serve in a church in Murfreesboro these days?

David Nasser: I do. I’m at New Vision with Pastor Brady. We are neighbors and fellow co-laborers. I meet people all the time when these are your neck of the woods and this is where you call home. I meet people all the time that have been influenced by you in such a tremendous way. I’m so grateful for you, and it’s good to have you as a neighbor. New Vision loves your church and I know it’s likewise, and Pastor Brady speaks so highly of you. Yeah, thankful for you.

Allen Jackson: We need every good church. There was a time we may have thought we were competitors, but we can’t live in that world anymore. We need one another. I want to start with just the basics. You were born in Iran, to get the big rock idea on the table. And now you’re a pastor at a church in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. There has to be a God story in there somewhere.

David Nasser: Only God. I was a Shia Muslim and grew up in Iran until I was nine years old. In 1979, when I was nine, the Iranian revolution happened and the Ayatollah Khomeini and his zealots basically took over our country. Iran was a monarchy, and it became at that moment a theocracy. When that happened, I was this kid who was watching the whole thing.

Allen Jackson: Let me interrupt just a second. The difference in a monarchy and a theocracy? Some of the people listening won’t understand that distinction.

David Nasser: Absolutely. We had a king that reigned and ruled, the Shah. It actually was a monarchy in the sense that he had all power and he actually governed, unlike what we see in the Queen of England, for example, or the King of England, where they have a position but they’re not really governing on the day-to-day trenches of life. That’s what we had.

Then when a theocracy took over, it became a governance of religion. In America, for example, we have a separation of church and state. In Iran, for lack of better terms, not church becomes state, but religion takes over. That’s actually more than just Iran. Islam started 1400 years ago in one nation, Saudi Arabia, and today it’s in many nations where it is actually a theocracy. That has always been the strategy of Islam, to not have separation of religion and politics, but really through politics to govern.

Iran was that way, or was becoming that way. When the revolution happened, my father was high-ranked in the military in Iran. In 1979, everything's turned upside down. They’re killing everybody who’s anybody. My dad’s high-ranked in the military. I just remember those days. I remember a soldier coming to my school in our army base and literally calling my name out at a school assembly in front of the entire student body.

I made my way to the front, and he dropped a piece of paper that had my name on it and took a gun out of a holster, quoted the Quran, and put it to my forehead. Because of who my dad was, he decided that he was going to make an example out of me and take my life. I was nine.

The school principal got between me and the gun and told him, "Please don't do this." The guy walked away. They rushed me back home. I didn't go to school the rest of that day, and my dad came home and was weeping and told me they’re making an example. They’re using terror and fear to stop people coming up against them.

That’s the day that my father told me that with everything that’s happening in Iran, we as a family are escaping to get away. I remember as a Shia Muslim thinking, I don't know what we’ve done to make God so mad, but apparently He’s mad at me and my father and my family. I remember thinking we’re getting away from Him—not getting away from a regime, but in my mind, God’s mad at my family and we’ve got to get away from Him.

Before we could escape, before we could implement the escape plan and get going, I remember soldiers coming to our home. Allen, I remember taking my dad. They were taking my dad out of our home, and I have this vivid memory of my mom’s hands wrapped around the leg of one of the soldiers. As they’re dragging my dad to the front door, my mom is just screaming, "Just kill him quickly! Just kill him quickly! Just kill him quickly!"

My first memory of prayer in my life was when they took my dad out of the home, and my mom gathered me and my sister together. Right there in the front, she just kept saying out loud in prayer, "Let him die quickly, let him die quickly." When she said amen, I asked, "Why are we saying that?"

She explained. She said they’re taking your dad to this park. It’s the same one where they took his best friend yesterday, and his best friend was tied to a tree. They took a pair of pliers and started with his fingernails and worked their way in, and it took him about seven hours to bleed him out. We need to pray that your dad’s killed quickly.

When you’re nine years old and that is your introduction to what you think God is, and you’ve got maybe a heritage of a religion, but then you’re confronted with that, the last thing you’re thinking is God loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.

Allen Jackson: And they’re doing that in the name of God.

David Nasser: They’re doing that in the name of God. They’re doing it as an act of worship. They’re leading worship, but not with a microphone or a guitar in their hand or a Bible; they’re leading it with a gun in their hand. That day my dad actually came home. He wasn't killed, in God’s sovereign grace, and we were given just a little bit more time to get out.

We went to these doctors that my mom had been going to see, and we cut a deal with them. They pretended like my mom needed emergency bypass surgery in Iran, and we bought two-way airline tickets as though we were as a family going quickly for this operation in Switzerland and coming back.

But we weren't coming back. We were running for our lives. I remember holding my dad’s hand in the airport, and his hand just kept shaking. He kept saying if they find out we’re escaping, they’re going to kill us here on the spot.

When you look at your story, it’s always so interesting in hindsight how you see how so often in life you think God’s hurting you but He’s actually holding you. You think God has abandoned you but He hasn’t. I look back then and can see, like it says in Isaiah 41:9 and 10, "I took you from the ends of the earth, from its farthest corners I called you. I said do not be afraid, I am with you. I will help you, and I will hold you in my righteous right hand."

The Lord held us and took us to Switzerland, and we were stuck in Europe for nine months trying to make it to America. But nobody from my neck of the woods was allowed into your neck of the woods because people were watching this dumpster fire of a revolution. They were watching how Iranians were burning the American flag, calling America the "Great Satan," and how it held 54 Americans hostage in the American Embassy in Iran. Here we were from the wrong place at the wrong time trying to make it to America, and the doors just wouldn't open up.

After nine months, God just in His perfect timing opened the doors and we came to America as refugees. It was under political asylum, but it was actually a way to become legal immigrants to be allowed in. We moved to Killeen, Texas.

Imagine this culture shock. Iranian family during the Iranian situation. I speak no language. Wrong haircut, wrong everything. I am a wedgie waiting to happen. We moved to the largest army base city in the world during all of that in patriotic Texas. It didn't go easy there in the beginning.

Allen Jackson: I’m sure you were bullied. That’s not a good story to tell.

David Nasser: It was hard because we’d come to America for refuge, but it didn't feel like a refuge. We’d come for safe harbor, but honestly, in one sense, it felt like we had replaced one kind of terrorism—physical—with another kind—emotional.

The weapon of mass destruction in emotional terrorism isn't when you’re getting picked last at all the sports or there are 15 birthday party invitations going out and there are 16 kids in the classroom and you know you’re not going to the skate rink on Saturday. All that happened. It’s not the nicknames and all the jokes. The weapon is when they don't even—they’re not even cruel to you. They just pretend like you’re not even worthy of existence, and they just ignore you.

That was so many years of my life growing up. I was just this kid who was an outcast kid. That was me all the way until the day my freshman year in high school was about to start. By this time, we’d moved from Texas to Alabama.

Allen Jackson: That’s an upgrade.

David Nasser: Yes, sir. My dad had gone to Fort Rucker, so there we were. I was sitting in my room and I was crying, and my dad heard me and he came in and said, "What’s wrong?"

I said, "Dad, I don't want to go to high school tomorrow. I’m just going to get beat up like a pinata again." I told him all the reasons I didn't want to go to high school the next day. He felt sorry for me, and to try to fix it, he took me to the mall. He got me new clothes, new haircut, new shoes, new everything. Same insecure kid on the inside; I got made over on the outside.

I call it geek-to-chic, Abdul-to-Julio. I went to school the next day and instantly I found friends because I found out what everyone listening knows: so often people will care more about the label that you wear than the person you really are.

My high school years became this bonfire of vanities. I just learned how to play high school. I learned how to wear the right thing, act the right way. I learned how to end up at the right lunchroom table, how to dump the right girl before she could dump me, how to be cold to be perceived as cool. It’s so true where it says in Scripture, "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world but to forfeit his soul?"

That was me. My high school years became these years where on paper it looked like everything had flipped, but really, at least when I was a nobody, I was David the nobody. You know where it says in Romans 12, "Do not conform to the patterns of this world but be transformed by the renewing..." Try to tell that to a kid who’s completely alone. "Do not conform." He’s like, "I’m already not conforming, and I’ll take fabricated friendship even if it means I just have to pretend like I’m not alone."

That was me all through high school. Then right after high school, one night I was with a buddy of mine and, to be very frank, we were in front of my house. We were smoking marijuana together. It was almost midnight. We’re passing this joint back and forth, and my buddy—while we’re smoking, this is so the South, doc—invites me to church.

Allen Jackson: Of course. I’m not recommending that as pre-evangelism, just for the record.

David Nasser: I’m just saying. I know the Bible says in Genesis God made the grass and it was good, but that’s not what it means, right? That’s a bad dad joke. But I just remember thinking what’s going on in here, and he invited me for social reasons.

But I told him there’s no way that my Muslim father’s going to let me go. You’ve been practicing Islam all the way through this. My mom was more devout than my father, but I wasn't the most—obviously I’m stoned when my buddy—I’m not a very devout Muslim. I was more Shia by heritage. A generic Muslim. We have generic Christians, people who haven't declared something else. They come at Easter, and once every three years at Christmas. You’re a generic Muslim, Muslim family, Muslim heritage.

I didn't want to go, but to be very honest, he named the five prettiest girls from my high school and he told me that they were all going to be there. I felt suddenly motivated to go. I heard from the Lord.

That’s the thing about God. God is bigger than ill intent. When the blind man comes to God, he’s not like, "I want to be a billboard for your renown." He’s like, "I’m blind, I want to see." The first time I got invited to church, I wanted to go be social. I wanted to be with kids in my high school.

My buddy wants me to go, and he told me about this thing called a youth group. But I told him there’s no way. We’re literally in the car, he’s telling me why I should come to church, and I’m like, "Well, you’ve motivated me, but there’s no way that my Muslim father is going to let me go to a Christian church. He doesn't really regulate what happens on a Saturday night, but on a Sunday morning, that’s not hidden in plain sight. Me getting up, putting on chinos, getting out of the house on a Sunday morning, he’s going to go, 'What are you doing?'"

He said, "Well, why don't you ask him?" Honestly, just to get my buddy off my back on a Saturday night, I said I’ll ask him. I thought there’s no way my dad’s going to say no. We get out of the car, we’re kind of stoned, we go in the house. He’s standing, my buddy’s standing at the front door. We walk down the hallway and I knocked on my parents' bedroom door.

They are literally in bed, the door is closed, I’m in the hallway. I knock on my parents' bedroom door and I said, "Mom and Dad, it’s midnight, I’m home, I’m safe. Don't get out of bed. I know you’re going to say no, just say no loud enough so my buddy can hear and leave me alone. He wants to know if I can go with them to church tomorrow, a Christian church."

Instead of saying no—and this is my favorite part of my story—my dad from his bed, instead of saying no, was kind of quiet for a second and then he yells, "What is the name of it?" He wants to know the name of the church.

I’m just dumbfounded my father would even be open to the idea, but I don't know the name of the church. I look down the hallway, my buddy’s standing there. He hears my dad yell that out, so he yells really loud, "Shades!"

We all knew Shades to be shorthand for this church about a mile from our home called Shades Mountain Baptist Church. My dad hears Shades, and then my dad yells from his bed, "I know those people."

I’m shocked that he would know someone from that church. But what I didn't know was that two weeks prior to that Saturday night, there were these people from this church called Shades Mountain Baptist Church who had come to my dad’s restaurant to eat. My dad had opened up a French restaurant. I know it’s confusing, but stay with me. My dad had opened up this French restaurant in Birmingham.

Two weeks prior to that Saturday night, this guy named Aubrey Edwards, who was the worship leader at this church, and a couple other staff guys had gone to my dad’s restaurant to eat. While they were shorthanded on the wait staff and lunch rush was crazy and they were getting bad service, instead of complaining about the service, Aubrey and his friends quietly got up, rolled up their sleeves, and waited on tables at my dad’s restaurant.

They went back the next day, waited on tables at his restaurant again. They went back the next—can you imagine clearing your calendar, your mega-church worship leader, and you went and you just—again, you’re leading worship, but with a mop in your hand? They served my dad.

At the end of the third shift that they served him, they invited my dad to choir practice. Because kindness is a superpower, it says in Romans 2 kindness leads to repentance, my dad went to choir practice. At the end of choir practice, this guy Aubrey got out a piece of paper and said, "Hey, we’re going to pass a piece of paper around. This is my friend Mr. Nasser, he owns a restaurant in town. Everybody needs to sign up for shifts to be busboys and waitresses at his restaurant."

What I didn't know was I’m standing fast-forward two weeks later on a Saturday night asking my dad if I can go to church, and instead of saying no, he goes, "What is the name of it?" Then my buddy yells out the name of the exact same people that had been helping him out.

I get to be here with you at your amazing church and talk to a pastor. I get to brag on God. I’m here because they showed up for us. They were on mission. They didn't see Muslims as the enemy; they saw them as the prize. The 10/40 window had come to them. They just saw us as people that were valuable to God and valuable to us. We were taken hostage by Islam. They were trying to set us free, and they knew the chain-breaker.

Sunday morning I went to church, and man, I’ve got to tell you, for the next eight Monday nights in a row, they came to my house. They had this thing called visitation. For eight Monday nights in a row, I heard the gospel. On week nine, I gave my life to Christ.

I got kicked out of the house for becoming a Christian. The night I got baptized was the night that it really hit a wall with my dad. Five months after I was a Christian, one day my sister called and the Lord through Campus Crusade and some friends on her campus had saved her. Then five months after that, my mother called me one night really loud on the phone. "Tonight I become a Christian!" "Why are you yelling?" She goes, "I want your father to hear because he’s not kicking me nowhere!" That’s actually a true story.

My mom got saved. Then five months after that, my brother Benjamin, who God made fearfully and wonderfully with Down syndrome, he got saved. The Lord saved him. Then two and a half years later, the Lord saved my dad.

We are literally a walking billboard of the power of the gospel to set people free from what I call religion gone wrong. That’s my story.

Allen Jackson: Is that all you’ve got? You don't have anything dramatic or any big story? Just another little "I went to church and I met Jesus."

David Nasser: I know. But really, they’re making a movie of it. They just signed the rights for my book. Really the—it’s funny—the people that are doing the movie said the other day, and they’re so right, they were like, "Man, the hero of this story is not you. The hero of this story is honestly just a youth ministry who showed up, a worship pastor who was actually genuine, a Christian who was Christ-like, a believer who was believable."

I was at First Baptist Orlando two summers ago, and I’m just telling my story between services. This grandma walks up. I knew she was a grandma because everybody was calling her Gigi and she had her grandkids around her. She’s kind of teary-eyed and she said, "Hey, you never met me, but I just want to tell you when I was in college, I was at choir one night and they had a piece of paper going around signing up for shifts, and I was a waitress at your daddy’s restaurant for a couple of weeks volunteering."

We’re standing there and I’m crying and she’s crying and I’m like, "It’s your fault I’m here." The hero of my story is just Christians who just put their pants on, got out of bed, and just loved the lost. They found a way to earn the right to speak the gospel into the life of my family.

Allen Jackson: The dirty little secret of ministry is it looks like work. You know, it doesn't feel spiritual. But we’re honoring God in it. I’ve never, until I sat with you just now, it’s never occurred to me that the Islamic revolution in Iran bore good fruit.

David Nasser: It’s Romans 8, brother.

Allen Jackson: But if that hadn't happened—I’m sure God would have reached you anyway He needed you. I’m sure you’ve said tests make testimonies. God works all things for the good of His purpose. But yeah, and that doesn't discount what happened there being horrific. As a matter of fact, what’s happening right now in Iran is in one sense horrific, but in another sense an answer to prayer.

Allen Jackson: Help us with that a little bit. Is this the counter-revolution? Do you think this is going to push them back? I don't have the imagination they’re going to be a democracy in the way we understand it. Islam doesn't really provide for that, I don't think. You’re an expert.

David Nasser: We haven't seen it in those neck of the woods, but there’s a first time for everything. Here is where I feel like this time it might be different. We had Allied help. Within the span of a year, we’ve seen literally—estimates say conservatively 40,000 Iranians killed when they pushed up against these powers by their own leaders.

This time, and this is where people ask me all the time, or recently they’ve been asking me, "Well, what do you think the sentiment is, man on the street in Iran?" I’m like, overwhelming gratitude for President Trump and for—and by the way, they don't even see it as President Trump, they see it as America coming to help them.

This was their fight to fight. The people of Iran were going to stand up against—this was going to break, this was going to happen. But now they’ve had a tremendous amount of help. I think that is a difference-maker.

I think Reza Pahlavi, the Crown Prince, the Shah’s son, I think he’s more poised than he’s ever been. He has more favor than he’s ever had, both internationally and also with those in the diaspora in Iran, the Iranians that are outside of Iran. People of Iran really want him. He’s made it crystal clear, "I’m not coming in to bring back a monarchy. I’m the King’s son, but I don't want to come and be the King. This isn't *Game of Thrones* here. I’m coming to be a part of a transition team."

He’s saying if it becomes a democracy, that’s what we’re hoping for our people, then they can vote who they want. If they want to have me, great. If they don't—and I’m just telling you, Doc, there’s a lot of candidates. The president of Iran might be sitting in a prison cell right now in Iran. It might be an exile who’s won the Nobel Peace Prize, and she’s a champion, she’s a lioness wanting to come and serve. We got those. The deck is stacked deep. It’s like Bama football up in there, man. We got a lot of people that can step up to the plate and lead.

Allen Jackson: It’s an amazing people. Historically until today, remarkable.

David Nasser: For 47 years, the Persian Empire, these incredible—Iran has always contributed to the betterment of the world, whether it’s education, whether it’s medication, whether it’s music, whether it’s the arts. Surrounded by nations that are 100 years old, Iran has always—Persia’s always been what it’s been. And for 47 years, we’ve seen the people of Iran held hostage by these terrorists.

Allen Jackson: I think that’s a really, really important point. All the Iranians today, 50 years old and younger, have never known freedom. They’ve been under the hobnail boots of this awful, authoritarian, cruel regime. So it’s a big shift for that group of people, that whole population 50 and younger, beginning to think in a new way. And that’s not going to happen in 24 hours. So what you’re describing is a transition period to let the people almost breathe a little bit of freedom to step into that space, it seems to me.

David Nasser: Yes, sir. But at the same time, this hasn't been overnight for them. For us, this feels like the last few weeks have been really interesting. But for them, they’ve been done. They’ve been done with this.

You’re not talking about a younger generation in Iran that are devout Muslims. You’re talking about a pretty secular generation who’s done with wrong religion. But at the same time, you’re talking about a generation of people who truly are interested in true religion.

The fastest-growing church in the world right now is the underground church in Iran. I call it God already stubbed behind the walls for greater things. So I’m coming into this moment, first of all, terrified for my family members that we can't get ahold of. My cousin who has MS, who hasn't had electricity, who’s been oppressed so long and now it just feels like bombs are dropping all around her home.

I’m terrified for them, but I’m also incredibly excited that this might be their liberation because we left Iran 47 years ago, and in one sense, my story that I just shared is the American dream, the land of opportunity. But we had a second dream as a family, and it’s always been that our family and the good people of Iran would be afforded what we were afforded: liberation, freedom, opportunity.

It feels like maybe now the lioness, the lion spirit of the Iranian people will have their finest hour and this will be their moment. But what really makes my heart beat fast—and I know this is your heart as well—is that this is so much bigger than a governance shift. This is about the revival in Iran that could happen.

This to me is about the fastest-growing underground church in the world thriving in this moment, and a people who have seen the worst thing called religion—the decay of it all—can actually find redemption in Christ. So I think we’re going to see through this a revival in Iran.

Now, we might see it on the other side of a democracy through the no-longer-underground church. We might see it through the underground church with theocracy 3.0 in there. But it doesn't matter. I think what God is beginning here is something bigger for the moment. Even if it’s not a democracy, I sure would hope—and I hope it’s not anything less than. They deserve more. But I sure would hope that they actually get to speak into who they want to lead them.

But at this point, who’s it going to be? Is it going to be Khomeini’s son, whose father was killed, wife was killed, mother was killed? All we’ve seen is a cardboard prince of him so far. Is it going to be him? Is it going to be someone else? I don't think the Iranian people have come to this place to turn back.

Allen Jackson: The Republican Guard to push forward some new leader that they want to support. I don't think the people accept that.

David Nasser: It’s very complicated. You’re talking about a nation that, because of the location and the Persian Gulf, you could have China involvement, you could have Russia involvement.

Allen Jackson: And a lot of factions, Kurds, a large Kurdish community. It’s not like a uniform population. So it’s going to take the Spirit of God.

David Nasser: It’s going to take the Spirit of God. But it’s also one of those things where how often in our lives—forget, take the Iranian situation out of the place—how often in our lives have we seen something in front of us and we’ve been like, that’s too big?

If you’d have told me my dad would one day be saved, I’d have been like, you don't know my dad. It was bigger than me, but it wasn't bigger than God. I have friends, they were told God’s going to heal you through this. And they’d be like, man, the cancer’s back, bro, it’s done. And God was bigger than their wildest dreams.

When somebody says you just don't know Iran, David, you were on Fox the other day, Fox News, and you were too audacious, I’m like, you don't know my God. He is the ultimate Operation Fury Force, and He knows no boundaries, and He can, and He has a church there. He has a relentless group of people who love the Lord and want to see God’s kingdom advanced.

So who knows what God’s got in store for Iran? But honestly, more than I’m concerned or wanting their liberation, which I do, what I want to see in Iran is conversions.

I don't know if you’ve heard this story. When COVID was just on the front end of it, Mike Pompeo confided in some friends—you might be one of his friends, I don't know if you know—but Mike Pompeo was head of CIA, Secretary of State. He confided into some friends that some interesting things were happening they noticed in Iran. The CIA noticed in Iran right when COVID was beginning to huddle up the world.

Remember when it first came out? We didn't know, is this thing going to kill 100 million people? What’s going to happen? Everybody had these question marks. So people were all on lockdown, and in that moment, while the whole world was on its heels, the Iranian government wasn't able to shut down downloads.

While the rest of the world was in Tennessee downloading and Netflix bingeing, in Iran, Mike Pompeo said the CIA noticed that in Iran there was a tsunami of downloaded material happening. So they were like, "What is happening in Iran? We need to figure out."

Being the CIA, they go and they start looking into it, and they realized that they were downloading just an unprecedented amount of Bibles, Bible studies, sermons. They were downloading things while the gettin’ was good. He said it was exponentially—there’s nowhere in the world near it. The most amount of Christian material being downloaded in the world at that point, in Iran.

When that happens, I think now about what God was doing during COVID, during all of the horrific thing that we all went through, how God in that moment opened up a window for the church to prepare. Think about that. So God is always behind the scenes up to something.

Allen Jackson: Sometimes it’s not just behind the scenes. Looks like to me now it’s in front of the scenes.

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Allen Jackson: Politics is symptomatic. What do you mean? I think the real causal elements in our world are spiritual. And when we see something happening in the political realm, it’s a symptom of something that’s happened spiritually. Absolutely.

We’ve been hearing for a long time about this amazing awakening, revival in Iran through dreams, through hundreds of thousands, millions of people perhaps. So it makes perfect sense to me that with that happening spiritually, that the symptom of that is now God’s going to take down the political regime.

I think there is an opportunity, and I think for the Christians listening to us, to pray. To pray for the believers in Iran to have an opportunity that the church is no longer underground, that it’s above ground. That next Easter, a year from this Easter, they’re celebrating Easter in the streets of Tehran publicly.

David Nasser: I can't imagine, but God can imagine that, so I can pray for it. Can I tell you another story? A couple weeks ago, I wake up in the morning and my phone is on fire because Iran has been overnight. Allied forces have, the air wars happened.

Allen Jackson: What’d you think when you heard that?

David Nasser: I was like, this could be it. Again, we’ve always had two dreams: the American dream and what I call the Iranian dream, which is a prayer, God liberate these people so that more of them would come to Christ. I thought this could be it.

When you’re the only Iranian a lot of your buddies know, they’re all—people I haven't heard from in 10 years are like, "What’s up, bro? What’s going on?" You won a lottery. Listen, my favorite was not all the Bible verses. My favorite was "Auburn lost, the terrorists lost, it’s going to be a good weekend, Roll Tide." That’s good.

Anyway, my phone’s blowing up, I’m just excited, and I have to speak at a church locally, youth conference, college conference. I’m in the greenroom and my phone’s going, I’m just getting requests to be on this podcast and stuff, and then they come and they say, "Hey, you’re up at the end of this song."

I go behind the stage and there’s LED walls, and I look and I can see the room, they’re all worshipping. They give me the microphone and I made the mistake—I don't have your maturity—I had my phone.

Allen Jackson: You just called me old, but you did it very kindly, so good.

David Nasser: I shouldn't have brought my phone. But my phone’s still going because everybody’s waking up watching this thing. In my mind I thought, I’ve got to stop thinking about Iran for just a second and think about the fact that I am in Spring Hill at this conference.

I put my phone down and I close my eyes like this to just stop thinking for just a second, and as soon as I close my eyes, I have this—instantly—I have this vision, clear as day, of a soccer stadium, about 30, 40,000 young people in this soccer stadium in Iran, and they are all singing.

I’m here in America and over there they’re singing, "Your name is the highest, Your name is the greatest, Your name stands above them all." That song, you know? "All thrones and dominions, all powers..." To the Iranian people, that song, *Holy Forever*, thrones and powers and dominions, that plays different in that house.

Those people have seen thrones that have disappointed them. Dominions that have been demonic dominion that has disappointed them and broken them. And then now they’re saying "Your name." I have this vision of these people worshipping at a like an Easter-type service and that’s going on. It was just amazing.

The next couple days, every time I’m thinking about Iran, which is a lot, as things are just downloading and things are happening, I keep going back to that part of that song. Every time I think about it, I’ll pray the song. I’d be like, "God, Your name above all names. God, Your thrones above all." I would just pray that.

A couple mornings later, I’m laying in bed and I wake up like 3:45 in the morning. I can't sleep and I’m just thinking about—you wake up when you’re from that part of the world and you’re like overnight when I turn my TV on, did Iran bomb Israel, God forbid? Did—are my—am I going to wake up and on WhatsApp my family was killed?

I wake up at 3:45 in the morning and I started thinking about Iran and what’s going on, and instantly I start praying that song. Then it hit me: they’re probably singing it in that soccer stadium if it ever comes into fruition. They’re probably singing it in Farsi and not in a Southern accent, "Yo name," in a Brandon Lake style.

In my mind I thought, well, let me learn—I don't know it in Farsi. My Farsi is very bad. I get my phone, I go on YouTube and I’m like, "*Holy Forever* Chris Tomlin song *Holy Forever* Farsi." About five versions of it pop up. I see this one, this girl, she’s like young teenage girl, I thought. She’s actually, I found out, she’s in her 20s.

I click it, Doc. It is the worst recording quality of it, it’s so bad. But instead of polish, it had power. I’m just laying in bed, I’ve got my little AirPods in, and she’s leading it in Farsi and I’m just worshipping. My wife wakes up—I married a sweet girl from Alabama—she’s like, "What’s going on?" I take the earbud out, I put it in her ear, I’m like, "Listen." We’re listening and I’m like, what if they’re singing this in Iran? If you’d have told me at that moment that would happen, I’d have been like, that’s a fantasy. The only way they’re going to gather Iranians is to put them all in jail.

But like now this could happen. I wake up, I got out of bed, and I go get ready because I’ve got to drive to Rome, Georgia to do a podcast. This guy who has to do it on location. I’m getting ready and my wife comes in the bathroom and while I’m getting ready she says, "Hey, after you left, I looked this young lady up. You had me on YouTube with her, but I just looked her up on Instagram, and this girl is legit. This girl loves Jesus. She is passionate about Jesus, and she loves Israel, and she loves President Trump, and she loves the people of Iran. She’s an interesting girl. Look at her on the internet."

I’m just kind of watching her stuff, and she’s like, she is all caps about a lot of things, most of it being God. Then my wife says to me, "You should DM her and encourage her that she led us in worship." I said, "Honey, she doesn't follow me, she doesn't know me." She goes, "Well, do it anyway."

I DM her on Instagram. I’m like, "Hey, you don't know me, fellow Iranian-born pastor in America, just want to tell you thank you." I put my number. I said, "If you ever want to, I’d love to pray with you about Iran."

Next thing you know, it’s like 5:00 in the morning. I drive to Rome, do this podcast. Man, I’m done. It’s 4:00 in the afternoon. I’m now in the car, all day I haven't checked my phone. I’m driving to Atlanta because I’ve got some consulting to do the next morning in Atlanta with a client. I’m like a half hour from Atlanta, and I check my phone. It’s the young lady that I had DM’d. She’s trying to get ahold of me.

I figured she is in California, because we saw on her feed that she was a student at Bethel School of Worship, and I thought Redding. She’s got her number. She goes, "Please call me." I call and she’s like, "Hey, Mr. Nasser, my name is Golnoush. It’s so good to meet you." She goes, "My father tried to reach you 10 years ago and I would love to hear more about what God has put on your heart."

Allen Jackson: She told me her father worked in your dad’s restaurant in Texas.

David Nasser: No, better. I’ve got better. She says, "Can we meet?" I’m like, "Girl, you’re in LA, you’re in 'Iran-geles.'" That’s what we call it. I go, "Where are you?" She goes, "Well, I live in Atlanta." I said, "Okay, well I’m about a half hour from Atlanta." She goes, "Well, can we meet?" I said, "Well, honey, I can't meet you. I’m a man, you’re a woman, above reproach." I go, "But if you want, is there a friend, a roommate, somebody that can come, your mom and dad?"

She goes, "My dad would love to come. My mom would too." An hour later, Dr. Jackson, we are in Rumi's, which is an Iranian restaurant, Persian restaurant in Atlanta. I’m sitting there, this girl who comes in, I’ve never met her, she’s sitting there, her mom and dad are sitting there. We’re three minutes into the meal and I look at her dad and say, "So what do you do?"

He’s like, "I’m an underground church planter in Iran. We had 15 campuses." Campuses are home churches. "But we lost two campuses when it was just too hard for them and they walked away. But another one, he was my son in the ministry, heroin addict that I led to the Lord, he was shot in the temple and murdered for being a pastor."

That’s a very different strategy of losing campuses than what we call in America. He’s telling me his story. I’m just sitting there at dinner just blown away by this man and his courage and his passion. I’m like, "Why are you on this side of the ocean?"

He said, "Well, we got caught smuggling Bibles at the Turkey border and the UN had to bring us over. But we want to go back. But that’s what I do. I drive Uber for a living so that I can have the flexibility with the Uber schedule to work constantly with my plants, with my—and we’re launching new churches."

Then I say to him, "How did you even get saved, bro? How’d you come to know the Lord?" He points to his daughter. He says, "Well, when she was born, the doctors told us we were Muslims. We were pretty devout Shia Muslims. When she was born, the doctors told us that her heart didn't form properly in the womb. As a matter of fact, she was missing a part of a chamber and that it wasn't going to catch up."

Eventually in Iran, the pediatric cardiologist said to us, "You’ve maybe got a few more weeks with her. Her little heart’s not going to be able to—so why don't you just take her home, enjoy the few days you have, and just prepare for the fact that she’s not going to be around anymore."

He said we go home, we’re distraught, we’re depressed, we’re just heartbroken that our first child is not going to make it. A neighbor invites us, an Armenian neighbor, Christian, invites us to his underground church. Out of desperation they go.

Allen Jackson: And there’s a bit of affinity between the Armenians and the Iranians.

David Nasser: Yes, sir. Well, what we call the Armenian church. So they go to this church. It’s not like your church where somebody comes in and we’ve got to be intentional, first-time visitor. You come in a couple with a baby, attendance is up 30%.

The pastor walks over, talks to them, finds out about what’s going on with their child, lays hands, prays over the child. At the end of the prayer, he says to them, "Hey, I know this might freak you out, I don't want to be—I felt as I was praying, I felt like something moved. Something shifted. So I don't know, you might want to go get her checked out."

They go back to the hospital. Doctor’s like, "What are you doing back? I’ve told you don't waste your time." They said, "Would you just please check?" Sure enough, the doctor goes in the back, he comes back and he says, "What happened?"

"What do you mean?" He’s like, "She is healed. The chamber has completely—it’s there. What wasn't there is there. What happened?" And then they go, "Jesus. Your name is the greatest, Your name is the highest." And the doctor says, "Well, I’m a Muslim, but if that is Jesus, then I believe in that Jesus." And the dad gets saved.

I told her at dinner, "Before you could even talk, you were an evangelist, you led your daddy to the Lord." A year later, it took a whole year for her mama to come to the Lord, and then we are where we are. We just have dinner.

Then last Sunday, I’m preaching for a buddy of mine in Mississippi. I said, "Hey, man, we’re about to get off the phone. Usually the last minute of our conversations, I’m messing with him about Ole Miss, he’s messing with me. And so we’re sticking the landing, we’re getting off the phone."

And I say, "Hey," he goes, "Hey, bro, I’m not going to be there. That’s why you’re pinch-hitting for me. I’m going to be in Malaysia working with some underground folks, but we got people going all over the world. We got over 400 people on mission, Kurdish places, Iraq." He says, "So bring up missions a little bit. And also talk about Iran for a minute since you’re from there. Don't tell your story, we already heard it."

And as he’s saying that I go, "Okay." I said, "Hey, I got this girl that I just met. She’s not even that—as a singer, she doesn't have this wow. She’s good, but..." And he’s like, "Okay." Next thing you know, she came on Sunday and she is leading. This church is 25,000 people on a weekend. She’s leading 25,000 people in Farsi, "Your Name."

That is awesome. So when you’re asking me what is God doing, it ain't just the people in Iran are going to get saved through this. I’m telling you right now, the people in Iran are—God is using them to get—I am a missionary sent from the 10/40 window to Murfreesboro, Tennessee. God sent me here.

And so Golnoush is doing that here. I tell her—one last thing. I tell her at dinner, she’s like, "So how did you find out? I looked you up and I was watching your video." She goes, "Oh, it was the horrible—" I said, "Oh yeah, it was not good quality, but it was very—" And then she said, "I had this vision of Iran and 30,000 people."

She’s polite, she’s like looking down at her hummus kind of politely. I said, "What’s wrong?" She goes, "Well, I don't want to be rude." I said, "No, no, go ahead, tell me what." I thought she was going to say that’s never going to happen or whatever. She goes, "Well, 30,000 people—I had the same vision. But 30,000 people is maybe for the pre-rally."

"What do you mean?" She goes, "Well, I don't think we have a stadium big enough. I see a field with 100,000 people." You know what they did at Pine Lake, the church, when we told that story? They said, "Your family, we are going to buy you one-way tickets to Iran, and when you go back, we got you."

Because they want to go back to Iran. I mean, you can't tell me God’s not already—not like what He could do, what He’s already doing. I cannot wait to see this thing continue to unfold. I will already not be the same. I hope I told you that story and it stirred your heart to affection even more for—and you won't be the same.

What is God already doing in Iran? What is already God doing through Iranians? What is God going to do when people watch this, this podcast, in Iran and go, "I thought Allen Jackson was a country music star. Where is his blonde mustache?" If I sing, it would be poor quality. What is God going to do? I can't wait to hear more and more. And I don't think we’ll know until we get to heaven. As you can tell, I’m a little fired up.

Allen Jackson: You should be. It’s appropriate. We should all be fired up. And I’m not sure a million’s a good number. I’ve got a friend in South Africa, Angus Buchan, who—he was a farmer, and God’s used him. Two years ago in the middle of all the turmoil there, God called him to rent a farm for a prayer meeting and five million people showed up.

David Nasser: Wow. Where in South Africa was that?

Allen Jackson: He did that in the heart of the country, so it was easy access. He lives in Greytown, which is right over on the edge of Zulu country.

David Nasser: And God just gave him a vision and he stepped into obedience and five million people?

Allen Jackson: People sat in their cars 12 hours to get there, had a three-hour prayer meeting, and 12 hours to get away, to leave. That hunger for God. Again, they need us over there. We need each other. The church in Iran needs the church in America to say, "We got you right now."

But the same thing is true. We need them. There are people that are going to not come to your church or my church this Easter because they’re going to think, "Too much traffic." We’ll watch on YouTube. And you got people that will walk five days to come and be amongst others to worship the Lord. Under threat of being murdered, being shot in the forehead. They’ll open their home under that threat, and we don't like to open our homes because it’s inconvenient and we have to sweep.

When did you become a Christian? I’m never heard your story.

Allen Jackson: My mom was—when I was seven, we went to church but we weren't Christians. You can do that. You can go to this church and not be a Christian. My mom gave birth to my youngest brother—I have two brothers—and while she was in the hospital, they said she had six months to live. She had cancer. Wow.

And they were flying to Mayo Clinic for some pretty dramatic surgery. And she said a prayer. The pastor came to visit her in the hospital and he didn't believe in heaven or hell. The challenge in the church isn't new; it’s been brewing for a long time.

But on the way to Mayo Clinic, she said a little prayer that if there is a God—because she said she wasn't sure—let me know the truth before I die so I can tell my sons. She didn't ask to be healed, she didn't even know that was an option.

She went through the whole workup at Mayo Clinic. The doctor comes in her room late at night and said, "Ms. Jackson, you had cancer. We have pictures of it. But we’ve looked for four days and we can't find it. Go home and raise your babies."

And six weeks later she is washing dishes one day and she heard a voice. And we were Methodist, and Methodists don't hear voices. The voice said, "You asked to know the truth before you die," and she said, "Yes, I did." And He said, "I’m the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

And she had to go find a Bible because it wasn't easy in our house then, and she found it in John 14:6. So my parents became Christians, and they changed so much, the temperature in our house, that I walked in the kitchen a few weeks later and said, "What has happened?" I was nine years old. I said, "Our home is different. What’s happened?"

And I knelt in the kitchen floor, 4811 Jackson Street in Hollywood, Florida. So God was very gracious. My mom—the doctor only missed it by 55 years. She passed away.

You’ve got a lot in common with Golnoush and her family. Some of the undertones of your salvation story are very close to Golnoush’s dad and mom and just a miracle to grab your attention and your family. There’s no other way to understand it. But aren't we all? Anybody that looks at us goes, only God. First Corinthians 1, He chose all the broken stuff, the crackpots, because He gets all the credit that way.

I often hear people say that we have a real leadership deficit in our nation or in our communities or even in our churches, and I know there’s some truth to that. But I would like to refine it a bit. I see people that are great leaders in lots of places. You’re great leaders in your business environment, in your corporate settings, in classrooms. You’re great leaders in your community or in mobilizing your family. The place where I see this astounding leadership deficit is in our willingness to lead with our faith.

We have confidence in the business setting or confidence in coaching an athletic team or coaching a group of students, but we don't have much confidence to bring our faith view to bear in the places where we have influence. If we don't lead with our faith, our other expressions of leadership are secondary.

Well, I’ve written a new book on—guess what—how to lead with faith. And the goal is to help give you the courage and the boldness to lead with your biblical worldview on the matters that will impact our culture and help make our future better. Read the book, open your heart. God’s raising up a whole new generation of leaders, and I want to be a part of that, and I believe you do too.

We always try to wrap these sessions with what can we do, and I think you’ve told us. We can pray for the people of Iran. I don't always close these out with a prayer, but I would be honored if you would pray. You have a heart for the people of Iran in a way I’m sure I can't. But I will join you in that compassion, because I truly believe what we’re watching happen on the international stage has been—the cause of that has been the prayers of those people in those underground house churches that could not step into the daylight, and God’s going to bring that into the light. That makes me want to do somersaults. That’s amazing. Would you pray?

David Nasser: Yes, sir. Thanks for letting me come and brag on the Lord. The title of my book, *Jumping Through Fires*, is my life story. And like I said, it’s so cool, they’re going to make a movie of it. You’re going to be in it? Maybe as an old grandpa or something. *Jumping Through Fires*, you can get that on Amazon, any place they get books.

And I’ve written a couple of devotional books as well that you can just go to DavidNasser.com. If you want to know more about how to partner with the church in Iran, we just—me and some other partners just started RevivalIran.com as a place that we’re going to bring more resources into. It’s a giving portal, but it’s more than that. It’s a prayer—it’s going to be a prayer journal portal, and it’s also going to be an advocacy portal where people can figure out how to have good language to advocacy at the water cooler at work.

When people are talking about the gas prices going up or whatever going up, going, "Hey, we can talk about politics, geopolitics, all that’s fine as long as we above the sun don't forget God’s got His bride over there." God’s good, He’s going to do it. So we want to equip the saints to do the work of ministry on both sides of the ocean through this thing.

You know God’s been doing things in Iran for a long, long time. You’re in the book. I mean, from people said, "Do you think that I—I can't wait to get to Iran and meet Esther, the Persian Queen?" You read your Bible, Iran is in the end times. I’m sure you’ve been to Israel. I’ve been a lot. I love Israel. I’ve stood at Mount Megiddo, and that’s the one time I ever got that compass out on my phone and I said, "Where is Iran?" And we’re told that Iran will be allied against—as a nation—allied against at that moment against Israel.

But I’m not worried about that. I’m worried right now about getting Iranians to be on the right side that day. I’m worried about getting Americans to be on the right side that day. People listening to me right now, you don't get a pass just because you got an American passport to be on the right side. Only through the blood of Christ.

I’m worried about the people in Israel who need Christ, who are not born again. Nobody comes to the Father except through Him. So people are like, "Are you worried about Iran?" I’m worried about Iranians. I’m worried about Americans. I’m worried about Mississippians, Tennesseans. I don't want God to save Tennessee, I want God to save people from Tennessee, my next-door neighbor living up here. So anyway, you get me fired up.

Allen Jackson: I don't think it takes much to get you going. Pray for us.

David Nasser: Lord, You can do it. We’ve seen You do it. God, I hear my brother’s testimony of what You did. God, and how there was a wake-up call and through a healing. And I thank You, Lord, that in Hollywood, Florida, God, You did it. And You did it, God, when You saved me in Vestavia Hills, Alabama.

And Lord, You’re doing it right now. You’re doing it through dreams in Tehran and Mashhad. You’re doing it, God, through Your church, through signs and wonders where You’re grabbing the attention of people. And Lord, even in Tennessee, every week here in Murfreesboro, we see people come to know You.

All we’re asking You to do is do it again. Do it again, God. What You’ve been doing, don't stop. The relentless, unstoppable power of the gospel in the life of everyone. And so, Lord, we pray for revival for Iran. God, we pray that what the enemy has meant for evil, You would use for Your kingdom advancement.

We pray that our brothers and sisters, the church in Iran, Your bride, would know we got them. That we pray for them, we advocate for them, we resource them so they can be heroes in the trenches between Sundays. Lord, what if the church in Iran in the next few months becomes the main trauma counseling arm in Iran? What if the church in Iran becomes the main place a heroin addict finds hope, a main place, God, where people begin to get curriculum to grow and get their marriage back?

So Lord, what if the hero in the trenches on a Tuesday, on a Thursday becomes the church in Iran? Lord, You’ve got Your people there. The inroads are there, and so use them. Let this be their finest hour. We want the same here. God, raise up, raise up a generation here. Lord, we want awakening. We hear about revival in Paducah, Kentucky, a bunch of kids at Ohio State baptizing one another on a college campus, SouthEast Christian having three-night-long prayer vigils on a campus.

And Lord, then we hear about what You’re doing in Iran and You’re just doing it everywhere. So we’re just selfish for Murfreesboro. Do it here, Lord. Use us. We pray this in Your name. Amen.

Allen Jackson: David, thank you. What an encouragement, man. You gave me a gift today. If you’re not familiar with David Nasser, you need to be. If you don't read, it’s good time to start. But most importantly, let’s be sure we’re praying on a regular basis for the people of Iran, that they will find freedom for their faith in the public square in the light of day.

God’s moving in the earth, and I’m grateful that He’s given us front-row seats, but I’d much rather be in the game. And you don't have to go to Iran to do that; you can get on your knees and do that. Let’s take our place in what’s happening. Thanks for the reminder. We’ll follow up in a bit.

David Nasser: I love you, Pastor. So grateful for you. You look eerily like Robert Redford. It just hit me.

Allen Jackson: The young version. Yes, the very young version. Not the leather bag. Thank you. The good-looking young version. You heard it here, *Culture & Christianity*. We’ll talk soon.

Thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven’t yet, be sure and subscribe to Allen Jackson Ministries' YouTube channel and follow the *Culture & Christianity* podcast. You can do that on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Together, let’s learn how to lead with our faith. We can change our culture. I’ll see you next time.