Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage

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That's why we offer a free, confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life's struggles. Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting, anxiety, grief, or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation.

Request your free, confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-A-FAMILY. That's 1-800-232-6459. Or visit focusonthefamily.com/gethelp. That's focusonthefamily.com/gethelp.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Welcome to Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage. I'm Dr. Greg Smalley.

Erin Smalley: And I'm Erin Smalley. Today's program is going to be a fun one because we're going to spend all of our time taking care of our listeners who have asked us questions, because we love their questions.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We do, and we're so humbled that you reach out to us asking us for help. We're here each week really to do just that. So we're going to go through several of the questions that have been submitted over the past few months. Remember, it's so easy and quick to reach out to us. Just click the link in the show notes. You can leave us an email or a voice question, but we'd prefer the voicemail because we really love hearing your voices.

Erin Smalley: And all of the people who submitted questions that we use in the program today will be sent a copy of our book, Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage. So let's jump right in. Our first question comes from someone who wanted to remain anonymous.

Guest (Female): Hi Greg and Erin. First off, I just wanted to say thank you so much for your show. Your show has offered such great insight for me, and I'm so thankful for your scripture-rooted marriage messaging. So my husband and we've been married for 11 years. We don't have any kids. This past year we agreed for him to quit his job to pursue a different career path, which required additional education.

It's been a year and there's been no progress. I'm the breadwinner, and we've spent a good amount of money recently on home repairs. But my husband talks about wanting to take vacations, and to me when he says this, I hear, "Let's spend more money." And then I think, what does he need a vacation from since he's not working?

It's really hard for me to respect him because he's so dependent. I know I'm supposed to focus on my yard, but I also don't know who else will challenge my husband to step up and lead, also accomplishing things for the good of our family. He doesn't listen to church leaders. His father was a psychologist, so he thinks that he doesn't need counseling. His pride and lack of drive and determination are a bit of a sexual turn-off for me as well. What can I say to him so that he gets the message?

Dr. Greg Smalley: Well, we're so grateful for your honesty. It's hard. You're in a tough season. Here on one hand, you're wanting to support your husband, but you're also feeling like you're carrying the financial load and you're not seeing the movement you were hoping with from your husband.

So we get it. That's tough. It's not easy. I think for me what comes to mind is pressure rarely creates movement. I know that if I'm feeling pressured, not necessarily from you but just whatever's going on, it often shuts me down. Some people deal with that better, especially if I'm feeling it from you.

When we're connected or when I come to you with a desire to connect, I'm more likely to respond well. If you're coming to me frustrated, I can tell that I'm disappointing you. I can tell you're frustrated. It adds now another whole layer to this. I start feeling failed. I'm shutting down. My personality, I get very paralyzed when I feel overwhelmed or when I feel that pressure, especially if that's coming from you because I'm already feeling that externally like he probably is.

I think the answer here is not to avoid having the hard discussion but to really focus on making sure that we're feeling connected. When I feel you approach me with pressure, it feels like you're my adversary. When you come to me to say, "Hey, we're on the same team here," and as a team let me share something, when you remind me like you've done it before, "Hey, we're on the same team here and as a team let me share something," that helps.

Erin Smalley: I would say first and foremost I appreciate that she acknowledged she needs to manage her own yard first and foremost. That's never going to happen. She's never going to go to her husband and approach connection because her heart more than likely isn't open.

Taking that time to care for self, get your heart back open, really acknowledge what is going on for me. How is this landing with me? I'm the one that's working, I'm the breadwinner, and he's wanting to take a vacation. So are you feeling taken advantage of? Does it feel unfair? Do you feel resentment? Is there fear?

So what is going on inside of you and acknowledge that? Take that to the Lord, work your way through that, do some self-care, get your heart back open so you can go to your spouse, to your husband, in a loving, kind way. It doesn't mean that you're okay with what's happening, but it's all in your approach.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, because when a heart is open, then that allows you to, instead of pushing him, then you're able to share your heart and then even dig in to try to better understand what's going on for him. If you approach him with, "Hey, I love you, I really want us to feel like a team, we're on the same team here," and right now I'm feeling the weight of providing and really the uncertainty of the future, that's when you're saying that's when you add in that awareness, that self-awareness.

And then ask him, "I'd love to better understand what's going on for you." Because you know, I'm just thinking about if it was me, I might feel shame. The failure thing would be screaming if it was me, the insecurity feeling overwhelmed. I would get defensive just because of what was going on for me. So I think if she's able to get her heart open, then she's more likely to approach him with curiosity and really preserve the team part because taking a vacation needs to feel good for both. Let's figure out what that would look like.

Erin Smalley: Yeah, and it's okay to set healthy boundaries around what you are comfortable with in your spending and in your budget, and agreeing upon that together. I wonder was there one conversation that happened months ago and then there's been no progress? What does it look like in between then and now, and have you guys sat down to look at the budget and set realistic expectations for both of you, including both of you? Because like Greg you said, you both matter.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, and it's got to be a win for both because in that discussion it could be the win is instead of spending money on vacation, we're going to spend money and go talk to a counselor and use that and have a really good professional help us uncover some things, figure out what's going on. But remember, at the end of the day, pushing just I've never seen that work and the relational connection I imagine will set you guys up for more success.

Erin Smalley: Yeah, and it's important as that relational connection builds to be aware of okay, where am I at now sexually? You mentioned that you are unattracted to him sexually and not desiring him sexually. I kind of go of course you're not, your heart is not open, it doesn't feel safe relationally right now because there's a disconnect.

So as you show up for you and get your heart back open, care for you, and engage relationally, who knows? And if that doesn't shift, I would be having a conversation not just about finances and his job, I would also be having a conversation about what's going on sexually. How do we both encourage this part of our relationship, which as well as you said Greg, maybe it is going to marriage counseling.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, our next question is an email from Noni who writes, "Dear Greg and Erin, first time emailing, long time listener." Thank you Noni, we're thrilled that you're emailing and thank you for being a long time listener.

"You guys are great and I'm hoping you can help me with this question. My husband and we've been married for 13 years and quite frankly, he's lied to me about our finances. I've told him before that he has to keep me in the loop on things. He says he doesn't want me to worry.

What's really happening is that he doesn't want to look like a failure. Well, he's failed. Now I'm picking up all the financial slack and I feel that it's appropriate that he's held accountable, not as a punishment but as natural consequences. I don't want him handling our money any longer. He's pushing back and I don't even know what's happening with us now. He's being possessive about it. What is your recommendation here? He can't be trusted with our money."

Discovering lies around finances, it cuts deep. So we hear the pain, we hear the frustration, we hear the what am I supposed to do here? The lack of financial transparency sounds like it's completely a loss for you as it should be. So Erin and I love that that you're stepping up and setting a boundary and saying, "Nope, we're not doing it this way anymore." Let's find a new better way to move forward.

So you know, often when a spouse might say something like, "Hey, I don't want you to worry," they're probably masking something. And I'm not saying something nefarious or something horrible is going on. I mean, that kind of statement can mask a lot of shame, a lot of fear of maybe losing control or the fear of being exposed, the fear of disappointing you. It could be like you're saying, the fear of pointing out that it's literally I'm failing.

It could be any one of those. But your gut is right on. There's something else going on for him. And you know Erin, you and I lately, I mean, we've been really looking at our finances from a different place of just going how do we make sure that both of us are informed, both of us understand what's going on? Because it's easy, right?

Although I'm not great at doing finances, I've kind of been the one who's done it and it puts you in a weird place because there are times where you're like, "What is happening? What is going on?"

Erin Smalley: Yeah, and I love Dave Ramsey. This is when it gave me permission to not to do the finances because he said whoever is the one that's more skilled at it, they should do the finances. So that's you. But it isn't okay for me to be completely absent because we're in this together.

And as we're looking to the future and eventually down the road retirement and on and on, really being involved with what we're doing and how we're managing the finances. Where are we investing, what are we saving, and so forth.

Dr. Greg Smalley: You know what's interesting? I was reading an article, the title caught my attention. It said that if you only did one thing this year financially different in your marriage, do this one thing. It was exactly what you're saying. It saying this financial expert was saying do not have just one spouse doing all the finances. Both of you sit down once a week, once a month, whatever that needs to look like and go through it all together. So the experts, financial experts are saying that.

Erin Smalley: I think I saw that article but I didn't remember it until you said it. I blocked that out. But it's true. It is true that we both need to be involved.

This is hard. And it is time for you guys to sit down and have a very serious discussion, possibly in front of a licensed Christian counselor, just to figure out what is going on, what's driving the secrecy, the hiding, and how can you guys be in this together? And that's what I would continue to plug as you're talking to him is I'm with you, I'm your teammate, I want to do this together.

I want to do this from the place of connection versus being adversarial. Because adversarial is never going to go well and it's more than likely going to reinforce whatever is going on for him that's leading to hiding. It doesn't mean Noni that you're responsible for what he's doing or what he has done. It means you're utilizing your influence to create an atmosphere that he might feel safer to be connected.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah. And when you Noni talked about, you know, you think it's appropriate that he's held accountable, not as a punishment but more as a natural consequence, I totally get what you're saying. I probably would frame that a little bit differently, that what's been happening within your marriage is a complete loss for you and that's no longer acceptable.

Going forward the boundary that you're putting in place is that you're going to do all this together. There's going to be 100% financial transparency and that's how you're going to behave and sit down together to go how do we set up a system that allows for that. To me that's approaching it that way is accountability. It is holding each other accountable that we're going to do this together.

There's going to be complete transparency and you're right Erin, I think that probably that needs to be worked through with a counselor just to help guide that conversation and to draw out some of what is going on deeper. But that's Noni, that's a great boundary. I would just do that. I mean, even if there wasn't issues going on, what Erin and I are learning about our own finances is that we've got to be doing this together. So let's figure out how we can do that. I think you're right on.

Erin Smalley: You're not overreacting, Noni. This is a fracture within the relationship because trust has been broken, but there is so much hope for it to be rebuilt. That's going to come with honesty and accountability and outside support. So Noni we want to encourage you, call Focus 1-800-A-FAMILY, and you'll be connected with a licensed Christian counselor who will call you back and they will help you lay out a pathway forward, including a referral to a Christian counselor in your area.

Dr. Greg Smalley: I couldn't agree more. Well, here's another anonymous listener question.

Guest (Male): Thanks for helping me with this question. My wife is a good person. I love her and I need your help on how to approach her on a certain topic. She wants me to do things in the bedroom that I'm not comfortable doing. It's not that I don't want to make her happy, I just don't want to do what she wants. She thinks it's a reflection of how I feel about her. What can I say to her so she understands it's me, not her? And how can I make it clear that I'm not going to do what she wants, but I still love her and want to have sex?

Erin Smalley: Wow, we so appreciate your honesty and transparency because this is something that's vulnerable. Bottom line, the way you framed all of this, to me it's apparent that you certainly do care deeply about your wife.

Dr. Greg Smalley: In any time we're talking about a behavior within the bedroom that someone doesn't feel comfortable with, it's a hard difficult conversation. That's okay. But the point is the healthiest thing that you guys can be doing is talking about it.

Because you said multiple times that you don't feel comfortable with this, but man I don't want I'm paraphrasing you, but I don't want to hurt her, I want to make sure that she feels it's not her, it's me. You have a voice and use your voice, you matter as well, you both matter.

And if it's something that you don't feel comfortable with, that's okay. If your focus is on how do I not hurt her, how do I not make her feel bad, how do I you can't control any of that. Like there it is healthy and appropriate for me to say to Erin, to you, that I don't like this or I don't feel comfortable with this, and let's figure out something a way to work through this.

I can't be then trying to figure out well how do I say this in a way that's not going to hurt your feelings. I can't control any of that. I can say it the perfect way, we could give you the exact statement that we think would be the best, you use it and it still hurts her feelings. So it's not how do I guard protect her from getting her feelings hurt, it's how do I convey this is what's going on for me and you matter, I matter, can we talk this through and find something that feels good to both of us, a win-win.

Erin Smalley: Because if one spouse says no, I am not comfortable with this behavior, this activity, especially sexually because it's so vulnerable, if one spouse is saying no then it's a no. If it was her saying no to this activity, it would be a no. And so it's really talking to her about that and it may even help to explain the why behind it.

How do you feel around this activity? Is there some is there trauma tied to this activity? So it really is giving her insight into why this is a no for me and it's not you, this is something I'm just uncomfortable with. And telling her, as you so beautifully said in your voicemail, that you love her deeply so start there. I love you deeply, I really want to be connected with you sexually. However, this one behavior really hits me wrong and this is why and can we explore other behaviors.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, and your no is not a rejection of her. It's just a boundary around an activity. And you have to feel confident in that. That's what we're encouraging you to really embrace, that you setting a boundary, that's a good thing. And you don't have to apologize for that and you don't have to worry about owning how she's going to feel around that.

You can absolutely ask her, "And I know this has been hard for you, setting this boundary, saying no to this, it seems like it really impacts you, help me to better understand that. I love you and I care about you and I want to understand kind of what does this trigger in you? What does this bring up for you?" And that sort of conversation you guys are going to get to a better place. At least that's the framework of how you really address something like this setting a boundary within your sexual relationship.

Erin Smalley: And we also have a lot of great articles, information on our website focusonthefamily.com/marriage, as well as in the show notes we're going to link multiple articles and pieces of information that might be helpful if you are struggling with anything like this sexually in your marriage.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Alright, well here's our next question.

Guest (Female): Hey Erin, my husband snores so loud and I can't sleep in the same bed with him. He won't get surgery. He won't go to the doctor about sleep apnea. I've been sleeping in our guest room for four years. I think that it's fair that we switch bedrooms and he sleeps in the guest room now. He says he doesn't want to move out of the master bedroom and I am so mad. This is a reasonable request, right? I mean, how can I make myself clear that I'm the one who has sacrificed and now it's his turn?

Dr. Greg Smalley: Every part of me wants to say to you, 100% this has been unfair, 100% it's your turn to have the primary bedroom now. That's your right. I think it's easy to jump onto your side and to go, "Yeah! So let's tell you how you can set that boundary and have that conversation with your husband."

But I think what it reminds me of is that you guys are on the same team and this isn't about a winner and a loser and that's what it feels like this is what it feels like how it's being set up, that someone is going to lose here. And sure, it'd be easy to say it's his turn to lose, you get to win now for the next four years. I just we don't teach that like it that never works.

Erin Smalley: Well, it's acknowledging that more than likely this isn't really about bedrooms. It's the deeper level stuff under the waterline. Is someone feeling taken advantage of? Is someone feeling it's unfair? Does someone feel uncared for? Abandoned? Resentful?

So it really is exploring what is really going on here. And so first of course we're going to say check in with you, figure out what is going on for you, name it, get real clear on it and really seeking God's truth as far as is this true about me? Am I being rejected? Is it unfair? Am I being abandoned? Whatever it is, just explore that and give it kind of room to breathe.

And then engage in a conversation with him and letting him know this feels like a loss to me and I'd love to explore with you a different arrangement. And I just want to add this in. This is a common issue and many, many couples sleep in separate rooms. What we always encourage is that they start out in the same bed to connect, to talk, to pray, to be intimate, to snuggle, whatever. And then head into different beds if that's what they're needing to get a good night's sleep.

Of course in the perfect world we'd say great, sleep in the same room, but you're saying I'm not sleeping if he's snoring. And so talk about that and talk about how you're feeling having been in the other bedroom for four years.

Dr. Greg Smalley: As a husband, what's hard about this for me is that Christ is saying to sacrifice for our wives. That's in Ephesians, Apostle Paul, here's how Christ showed up as a husband with his bride the church, he laid down his life. So I think that's being hooked for me in again it's interesting just going through this question, the human part of me just wants to referee this and just blow the whistle, throw the penalty flag, call the timeout and say, "Okay buddy, you husband you're out, you're in the guest room, you're in, you're in the primary bedroom now."

And that just that that's never going to get you guys where you need to be. And exactly Erin what you're saying, first both need to understand what is going on. What is my hesitancy of going to get checked? What is my hesitancy of seeing what my wife has been sacrificing for four years? I mean, both need to gain some insight there and then that's what you talk about.

And just I would encourage her just to say, "You know I love you, I want us to feel connected again, but for four years I've been the one carrying the cost of this. I'm exhausted, I'm hurt, I feel abandoned, whatever it is. And I need us to share in this sacrifice." Like she's pulling for the teamwork there. And if both are willing to come to the table going we both matter let's talk this through in a way that feels good to both of us, I believe they can get there.

But I would there's questions like I would love to be in a counseling office with them and just really explore what yeah, what is going on? Because it's probably as you always say there's something else going on under the waterline and maybe there's some dynamics or some patterns. I mean, we're always we teach people how to treat us.

So I'd want a better understand it from her. What's been going on that this has been okay for four years? Like that was never a win, that was always a loss for you and you tolerated it for four years. Talk about it.

Erin Smalley: And so often we adapt and become maybe complacent to whatever the normal is, the day-to-day. And so you're right, really addressing this from the place of what is really going on inside of you as well as understanding what's going on inside of him.

And you know, I just want to end this with this request is reasonable. Have a healthy conversation and if you try and it doesn't go well, bring in a third party, a pastor, a mentor, a licensed Christian counselor because he also needs to share in this sacrifice. It's not just for one to carry. And the real solution obviously is figuring out what is going on health-wise as well. He's got to go to the doctor. That's that's not acceptable. I'm sorry. Let me say it very clearly, he needs to care about that with her. His snoring impacts both of them and she's not nagging, she's given up for four years. Go get checked. You guys figure out how you can get back to sleeping together in the nice main bedroom, but that's going to require yeah, to go get checked out.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Our last question comes from Nikki who writes, "I hope you can help me Greg and Erin. Our marriage is a 6.5 on a scale of 10. Nothing critical, but nothing special either. It's not enough for me. I've begged my husband to come to conferences, go to counseling, or to read a good marriage book. Nothing changes. So how do I stop hoping for more? More obviously isn't happening. I'm depressed about this and I'm growing cynical about life, especially thinking that this is all there is. I've read your article on healing separation, but if I leave, I'll probably stay gone."

Dr. Greg Smalley: I hear the pain, I hear the frustration, I hear the cynicism and I would just start by saying fight to keep your heart open. Anytime one spouse is aware of the multiple problems, we're at a 6.5, things aren't going well, I need this and this and this to be different, what's so hard about that is that it takes two people equally willing to grow, to learn, to change, to address whatever needs to be addressed to create the kind of marriage that you're talking about.

And I don't have control over if Aaron's going to participate in that or not or to what degree. And so if I keep my focus on what's missing, what's not happening, the frustration then I will become more cynical. Don't ever lose hope. You need to expect more. There's nothing wrong with that. All you're saying is that I want a marriage that we're both thrilled with. We'd love that. Have that as a goal and as a desire. So don't give that part up.

Erin Smalley: And just to validate, there is not one couple that I have ever sat with that says, "Yeah, 6.5 is good enough." Sometimes it's like a five and I'm like, well five isn't bad and right middle of the road. And there has not been one time that a couple says, "Yep, we're good with that." We always want more.

Our heart longs for more. Our heart longs for connection and specifically that deep connection. So when I hear a 6.5, kind of like I said at couples, that's really not that bad. So I would build on what's already there. What is causing you to feel connected at a 6.5?

And the question I often ask is okay, so what would be happening that would take you to a nine or a 10? Or a seven or a 7.5? What would increase this? And having a conversation with him about that. Like "Hey, this is where I kind of feel we're at, where do you feel that we're at?"

And you may have had this conversation, so if you're thinking, "Yep, I've already tried that," okay. I would continue to have that conversation, but I would approach it from the place of I desire to be more connected with you, not in the middle of conflict, not in the middle of something blowing up and disconnection ensuing.

I would say it is absolutely something that should be done proactively and intentionally and even scheduling, "Hey when can we have this conversation, maybe even outside of our home?" And if it doesn't go well again, I would introduce a third party and a licensed Christian counselor, a pastor, someone who would help to navigate what's going on. Because I don't know anyone when they're really, really honest that will say, "Yeah, I'm good with mediocre in my marriage."

Dr. Greg Smalley: Yeah, I don't think people are going to admit to that. We sort of behave that way and when we're not interested in in really growing, putting in time and effort into those things that might appear that we're okay with that. But yeah, you're right. When push comes to shove, I don't think anybody wants mediocre.

I would just encourage you during your quiet time just to take your journal, get one if you don't have one, and just really grieve the fact that you don't feel like you guys can move beyond that 6.5 because he's not interested. Really allow your heart to hurt in a real appropriate way. Pour that out to the Lord. Grieve that. I mean, that that is hard. You want more and it's not going there.

And then keep doing things that you can control. You said you long to go to conferences and to read good marriage books and listen to podcasts and go to counseling. Do it. Do it all. I know Erin there's been times to where I've watched you proactively go to see a counselor or whatever, read a book or do things like that that I watch you do in that and then go, "Wait, what am I missing?"

Wait, she's growing in and leaving me behind is kind of how it felt going, "I got to step up here, I don't want to be left behind." So it doesn't mean that he will do anything as long as you are doing that stuff but do that stuff. If that's important to you, dig in and keep growing and learning.

Erin Smalley: And do it for you, not with the expectation of, "Oh if I do this he's going to do something." Do it for you because I can tell you I have no regrets over the multiple times that I've gone to counseling and grown as an individual and attended a marriage event or read a marriage book. There's no regret because I want to be the best version of who God made me to be.

So make that your goal. I would also be curious what his experience is of you when you bring this up. What does he say is really going on for him? Is he feeling nagged? Is he feeling belittled? And again, you're not responsible for what he is experiencing. You have a voice. So by all means I say use your voice. But how is he experiencing it?

And then I would go to how would I bring this up? How could I talk to you about this and if you're feeling nagged, how could I bring this up in a way that wouldn't lead you to feel nagged? Or maybe he's just shutting down because he feels failed? I don't know. It'd be a great conversation. Great conversation to have.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Every marriage has issues. Some need more help than others. And maybe as you're hearing what this wife is going through, maybe you're resonating with that going, "Oof, man I'm right there," or "I'm frustrated that my spouse isn't doing or I know my spouse is frustrated at me because..."

And that's why we have this amazing program called Hope Restored. It's a marriage intensive. This really is a way for a couple who maybe doesn't mean you're in crisis, but maybe you're just saying we're stuck in kind of this mediocre marriage that we don't want.

And that's we've got amazing Christian some of the best Christian marriage therapists on the planet who who are a part of Hope Restored. So we'll go ahead and put the link to that here in our show notes. You can learn more about Hope Restored. Just click that link and and follow that and find out about the closest Hope Restored to you.

Erin Smalley: And if you have a question you'd like us to answer for you, the show notes have a link for you to send an email or a voicemail. We're looking forward to hearing from you because we love your questions.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Well, thank you for joining us on Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage.

Erin Smalley: Yes, thank you for following the show and sharing it with your friends and family. We want you to have a seat at the table every week as we help equip you and your spouse to have a lifelong satisfying marriage.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We want to see you guys growing spiritually as individuals and as a couple.

Erin Smalley: So you can turn right around and invest in other couples to help them build thriving marriages.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Well, thanks for listening. We'll talk to you again next Monday about this crazy little thing called marriage.

Guest (Male): ChatGPT and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional help and biblical wisdom.

That's why we offer a free, confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life's struggles. Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting, anxiety, grief, or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation.

Request your free, confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-A-FAMILY. That's 1-800-232-6459. Or visit focusonthefamily.com/gethelp. That's focusonthefamily.com/gethelp.