Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage

Dr. Greg Smalley: Hi, I'm Dr. Greg Smalley. More than ever, we're seeing incredible opportunities to help young people embrace God's design for marriage, family, and a vibrant faith in Christ. You can play a powerful role in that opportunity. Focus on the Family is launching a feature-length Adventures in Odyssey animated film, "Journey into the Impossible," and we'd love your partnership in bringing it to families.

For nearly 40 years, Adventures in Odyssey audio dramas have been teaching kids how to follow the Lord. Over 9,000 children each year make a decision for Christ after listening to the program. Your donation to support the film will bring God's truth to millions of families. Listen to Sandra as she shares the eternal impact Adventures in Odyssey had on her family.

Sandra: The three-parter "For Whom the Wedding Bells Toll" means so much more now as our kids are getting older. When they were quite young, it was definitely interesting, but now as they approach their romantic relationships and future potential marriages, listening to "For Whom the Wedding Bells Toll" is definitely profound.

Adventures in Odyssey has helped bond our family even closer and has truly made a difference in our kids' life here on earth and where they'll spend eternity in heaven with Jesus. I really thank you all so much for that.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Be a part of strengthening families like Sandra's by donating to help launch the film. We want to reach seven million new families around the country with "Journey into the Impossible." To help us reach that goal, generous friends have offered to match all gifts dollar-for-dollar until May 1st.

That means your gift will be doubled if you give today. Simply go to FocusOnTheFamily.com/impossible to watch the trailer and donate. That's FocusOnTheFamily.com/impossible.

Welcome to Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage. I'm Dr. Greg Smalley.

Erin Smalley: And I'm Erin Smalley. We pray that our podcast is a blessing to you and your spouse. We hope that you would be willing to share the links to the show with your friends and family.

Dr. Greg Smalley: What a great idea to share the link to the latest podcast with your Bible study, with your closest friends, or with your book club, just to encourage their marriage. Word-of-mouth advertising is the best, so thank you for recommending us to your friends and family.

Today we're going to be talking to one of our very favorite guests. You're going to love him, and we're certain that you're going to learn things that will strengthen your marriage. Later, we're going to answer a question from one of our listeners. This young woman recently divorced and now she's seeking advice for the aftermath. Then we're going to share some ideas for a couple's vision board, a fun way to do some goal planning for 2026.

Erin Smalley: Our guest today is a dear friend of Focus on the Family, Dr. Gary Thomas. His advice to couples is something that you can always rely on and trust because he points people back to God's truth. He always has such practical ideas that you and your spouse can implement.

Today we're going to ask him more about his book, "Making Your Marriage a Fortress: Strengthening Your Marriage to Withstand Life's Storms." We start the conversation with how to make your marriage a fortress in everyday life.

We are so excited to have our dear friend Gary Thomas with us today. He lives in Denver now, so he comes down regularly and we get to hang out with him. Welcome, Gary.

Dr. Gary Thomas: Thank you. Great to be back.

Erin Smalley: Gary, you talk about making your marriage a fortress. What does that look like in real life? I have some images in my mind, but I'd love to know what that means in real life.

Dr. Gary Thomas: It means that we don't live in a world that's kind to our affection for each other. When you add in the reality of my sin and my spouse's sin and our children's sin, our coworkers who sin against us, and in-laws who sin against us, all of that, you add in sickness, temptation, spiritual warfare, things just happen where you can have this great relationship and then it seems like it just gets eroded. Things just start to unravel.

What happens then, if you make your marriage a fortress, those storms will help you grow closer together. If your marriage isn't a fortress and the storm makes your marriage collapse, the collapse of your marriage becomes a bigger issue than the storm. The book goes through different stories of couples where they went through things that tear a lot of marriages apart: losing a child, catastrophic medical issues, financial pressure, affairs, things like that.

How did that draw them closer together rather than pull them apart? Ultimately, that's what I think Satan is after. He doesn't care what storm brings us down. If it's financial, health, or spiritual, he just hates families. He hates marriage and he wants to bring that down. It's about what we can do ahead of time to make our marriage a fortress so that we come out of those storms closer and more in love with each other.

Dr. Greg Smalley: I imagine that couples probably even unintentionally do things at times that really end up making their marriage feel unsafe or even unprotected. What have you noticed are some of those big things that couples do that create the opposite of the fortress?

Dr. Gary Thomas: We've talked before about a friend of mine who was a weightlifter and got MS. I won't repeat the whole story. One of the things his wife told me that we didn't talk about last time was that this was her worst fear. She came from a dysfunctional background and she was terrified. She married a very strong, charismatic husband who now can't even bring in the groceries, can't even get himself in bed.

She talked about the fear that she lived with and how this was literally the worst thing she could imagine. Then she knew he was going to go into a wheelchair, and she regretted that. Then she knew he was going to go into the motorized scooter, and then that happened. One time they were at a dinner with their friends. They were laughing and it was good food. She knew they had to leave early. He needs to get in bed earlier, so they'd be kicking out about 8:00, which is pretty early for the dinner party to end.

She felt God telling her, "Stacy, this is what you feared most, and it happened, and you're having fun." That's when she looked at me and said, "Gary, it was that night that I realized my fear hurt our marriage more than MS did." MS has been devastating to their marriage, but she said it was her fear that did more damage, that caused more distance in her marriage and with her kids.

Making your marriage a fortress is where you don't get to choose what your crosses are going to be. You don't get to choose what the storm is going to be, but building up your marriage so that when it does hit, our personal weaknesses won't bring us down. If you're very negative, that's not going to go well in a storm when you need a little bit of hope.

If you're very fearful, that's not going to help when you need a little bit of faith. If you're very selfish, that's not going to help when your spouse needs you to become a giver. It's just recognizing that we need to become spiritually strong so that wherever the storm hits us from, we'll be spiritually strong enough to face it and stay together.

Dr. Greg Smalley: That's good. One time, over the course of a seminar season, five or six events that we were teaching, we just asked what happens in your marriage that helps you to feel really safe? Then what happens that causes you to feel unsafe? We were having fun trying to guess what would rise to the top. As we analyzed it, the thing that overwhelmingly caused people to feel the most unsafe was criticism. It makes sense. I was surprised that that rose to the top. There's just something about feeling criticized by our spouse that really does the opposite of what you're talking about.

Dr. Gary Thomas: Every husband should pause and think about what you just said. If men realized how important it is for a wife to feel safe before she can feel intimate with him and secure in their relationship and happy, it would change so many marriages. There's no intimacy without security.

As guys, we try to do everything else. So many issues occur where wives feel threatened because it's their family that will be torn apart. I want to hear what Erin has to say, but I want to put an underline and italics on what you said about what makes you feel safe and what doesn't make you feel safe. Those are two good questions for a date night.

Erin Smalley: I think that's key. Feeling safe and secure in your marriage is of utmost importance, especially for a woman's heart. There are things that both Greg and I can do to wreck that through our words and our actions. Just remembering front and center that that is the most important baseline to have is safety and security. Of course, Jesus first and foremost is safety and security. Gary, you talk about making your marriage a fortress, but give us some hands-on practical ways that we can build that marital fortress and the emotional connections.

Dr. Gary Thomas: When I was writing the book, I interviewed some couples who had gone through infidelity. One woman's husband had started out with porn and it became multiple affairs and all the ugly stuff. His repentance was real. He didn't just cry because he was afraid of being caught or shamed.

Repentance is when he got into a 12-step group, he made the phone calls, he read the books, he listened to podcasts. One of the things they did in Houston was great. There is a retired detective who would give guys quarterly lie detector tests. He knew she could ask him any question, and he loved it. It sounds oppressive, but he was like, "I know I can't lie to her anymore."

Somebody asked her why she would stay. She said, "I've seen the world and I've seen what men can get into. I know my husband isn't straying because I'm going to find out if he does. If I divorce him and marry someone else, I don't know if they're going to agree to a lie detector test." It was that sense of security. He had hurt her about as deeply as a man can hurt a woman. She had every biblical reason to leave him.

When she found security in the marriage because lying was no longer a possibility, she said they reached a level of intimacy they had never had before. She didn't wish the affairs had happened, but now that they had this, she would never want to go back to the relationship they had before. Security is that important to a woman.

I saw three things that every couple had in common. The first was that the couples that make it through a storm are both pursuing spiritual maturity because you won't know how you get hit or where you get hit. Godliness has value for all things. If it's a physical challenge, a financial challenge, or a spiritual challenge, if you're pursuing godliness, you'll be strong to help your spouse go through.

I've mentioned a couple that lost their only child and the devastation that they had in their marriage. Janelle told me that the first year she was in a fog. You lose your only child, everything is a fog. She said that first year it was Joe 90% keeping them going. We all grieve differently. The second year, she was feeling stronger and it finally hit Joe. He had to be strong for her, and now that she was doing well, he really started to fall apart.

He was a plaintiff's lawyer in a terrible case with terrible people. It made a lot of money, but it just about destroyed his soul. He started to fall apart. Janelle said that year it was 75% me, 25% Joe. I want to warn those couples that think, "My wife is such a strong believer, she has so much faith, she's in the Word, she provides the spiritual strength in our home." What if your wife needs you to be the strong one?

Or what if the wife says, "My husband is the spiritual leader, he's the rock," and so you're not growing in Scripture, you're not pursuing the Lord? There will come a time when he needs you. The couples that made it, they both were growing strong. They pursued spiritual strength individually that made them strong as a couple.

The second thing would be they were strong in the Word. God's Word is a miracle. Scripture speaks of itself as living and active, sharper than a two-edged sword. We just take it for granted. For three-quarters of Christian history, people didn't have Bibles. Most of us at home could build a wall of Bibles, most of which will never be opened. When I've talked to couples and I've seen how applying Scripture helped them, there is no substitute for the Word. We should be hiding them in our heart, we should be memorizing them, and they should be all around our house.

The third thing that I saw these couples do is that they grew in community. It's dangerous to be a lonely couple. When Janelle lost her only son, she only had to make one phone call. It was a Sunday morning and within 30 minutes, the whole neighborhood was packed with cars. Her house was full. They weren't going to let her go through it alone. She said for the next year she would get six texts a day of Bible verses and prayers and encouragement because they'd built community. They'd been in Bible studies, they were in choir, they were part of a good church.

When everything is going well, we don't feel like we need the church and we treat the church almost as an obligation. When you need community, it's too late to build community. Because they had built community, they could lean on that community and their marriage thrived because of it. I mentioned the guy who got into a sex addiction. This challenged me so much as a pastor because every counselor will tell you what's essential to get out of an addiction is community. These guys and women that are addicted, they become isolated. If community helps you heal from an addiction, can't it be a wall that keeps you from going into an addiction?

He said, "Gary, when I go to my 12-step groups, I know these guys, I know their deepest sins, I know their triggers, I know their character strengths and weaknesses, I know the last time they fell. I don't know how much money they make, I don't know their last name, I don't know what their favorite sports team is, I don't know where they live. I go to church and it's the opposite. I know guys' favorite team, I know what neighborhood they're in, I have a good idea of how much money they make, and I don't know anything about what's really going on in their heart."

I thought about how in the church we can build community without having to go through addiction because we need community. It's possible to be a lonely married couple. If you want to make your marriage a fortress, I think you have to make your church a priority. People don't know how to do this because we tend to be isolated as people, and especially for married couples. You've got to find those wonderful couples where the guy gets along with the guy and the woman gets along with the woman and then even all four, they all kind of like each other.

It's trial and error. Taking someone out for dinner is not a commitment that you're going to be in a small group with them for the next 10 years. Don't even tell them you're trying to build community. Even a small group doesn't mean we're going to be in a small group forever. Whenever I mention this to other couples, they are so thirsty, they all want to do it because we all need it. Build the community before the storm hits. It's too late to try to build it after it's hit.

Dr. Greg Smalley: That is so true. I love that fortress analogy. Thinking about the spiritual growth, really digging into knowing God's Word, my dad used to say something that always struck me. He would say, "Son, there's such a difference between memorizing Scripture and hiding God's Word in your heart." I would ask what that meant.

The way he would explain it is just meditating on God's Word. It's beyond just memorizing that particular Scripture. Now I spend time thinking about it, reviewing it, and digging into a word to see what it means. The other day, First Peter 3:8 talks about husbands being with your wife in an understanding way. Reflecting on it, thinking about what it means, "an understanding way."

I found that the Greek word there is more about pursuing an intimate knowledge. It's not just understanding her, it's actually an active pursuing, staying current and updated in rediscovering her. You just don't memorize Scripture, you meditate and keep investigating. That's when it becomes that living Word that you're talking about.

Erin Smalley: Do you remember your dad's prop that he used with meditate and memorize? M&Ms. He would sit there and eat M&Ms while he was speaking. And I was always like, "I'm not getting it." Then he goes, "M&M, meditate and memorize." I was literally thinking about that right when you said it.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We're going to send Gary home with a big package of M&Ms to consume. I love talking with Gary because you get these golden nuggets. What you just said about rediscovering your wife, I want to emphasize that for all of us husbands out there. Lisa and I have been married 41 years now.

Erin Smalley: We've been married 33 years.

Dr. Gary Thomas: You're just babies compared to Lisa and me. Guys, the reason you have to keep rediscovering your wife is that life changes your wife. Childbirth will completely change your wife. The inability to have children will completely change your wife. A baby becoming a toddler changes how they view themselves. Being done with raising children changes your wife. Becoming an empty nester will change your wife. Losing a parent changes her.

If we aren't continuing to grow and see how this is impacting our wife and what it means, then we're becoming strangers to them. Even though you've known her for 20 years, life is going to change her. Getting older, dealing with a body that's getting older, all of it needs to be a lifelong pursuit. I love that, rediscovering your wife.

Erin Smalley: Wouldn't you say that I'm the same person that you married 33 years ago?

Dr. Greg Smalley: You are completely different and that's the cool part of the marriage adventure. We don't know what's around the next corner, the next bend. Within the last week, Erin lost her dad. He's now with the Lord. That's been a part of what our conversation has been, just asking her what's different now?

What's that like now that she has lost both of her parents? Every day something can happen that can dramatically change who you are and who then we are in our marriage. You do have to stay on top of that. That buttresses the marriage. That's the fortress you're talking about. That's one of those ingredients that keeps it strong, committing to that constant learning.

Erin's almost done with her doctorate and it makes me think I want to, with the same passion that she's pursued all this education, keep doing that in her life. I want a doctorate in Erin. Gary, we again could spend hours with you. We just so appreciate your ministry and your willingness to talk about what you and Lisa have learned all these years, what God has taught you in the counseling, and what you've learned from all of that. We're just grateful for you taking the time to be with us.

Dr. Gary Thomas: Thank you.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We promised you in the beginning that you were going to love Gary Thomas as much as we do. As always, he just brings such depth in the way he's always pointing people right back to the Lord, to the Word. It's always such a great reminder.

When we were talking about things that can create the opposite of the fortress, a marriage that doesn't feel safe, we talked about this idea of criticism. Remember, that's what we saw as we polled people. Talk about the difference between criticizing your spouse and offering feedback. It's important that we can have those harder conversations. When does that feedback maybe become criticism?

Erin Smalley: It's all in delivery. When I'm giving you feedback, first and foremost, I'm asking you if you're open to my feedback because you might not be in the moment. If I ask you, "Hey, Greg, I've got some feedback, I'm noticing something," first and foremost, I'm using I-statements.

I'm talking about what I'm noticing but how it's impacting me, or I'm expressing a concern, a fear, something about me. I'm not laying into you like, "You do this and you do that and that's terrible," and using judgment statements. Making sure that you're presenting it in a way that your spouse can best hear, and that's first and foremost asking if they're open to feedback and proceeding using I-statements.

Criticism goes down that pathway of name-calling and disparaging comments about the character, like this is who you are. "You are ungrateful, you don't value me," versus, "Hey, yesterday you left the trash for me to take out when you had promised that."

Dr. Greg Smalley: And then adding in, "You're so lazy. Can you never do anything fully? My expectation is that you're going to do this completely and you don't consistently, you never do it right."

Erin Smalley: Criticism is more of a personal attack about who you are versus feedback. This thing happened and I want to share how that made me feel or how that impacted me. Share my concern, my fear, and share it from the perspective of "this is mine and I'm offering this."

Dr. Greg Smalley: Part of that fortress, that safety, is the trust that we can have for each other that we're going to share feedback. We're going to bring up things that are frustrating, irritating, whatever it is. That is a part of how we can create trust and safety as long as we make it about ourselves, use I-statements, don't attack the character of the person, point out the behavior and how it impacted you.

Erin Smalley: The other thing that Gary talked about, which I really appreciated, was making sure that you're emotionally available for your spouse. I know some people are probably going, "Great, I don't even know what that means. I don't know how to do that. I don't even know how to be emotionally available to myself."

I loved what he said because he talked about there being so many other things vying for our attention, and yet here's this person that we've chosen and we're journeying with. How do we let them know that we are available to them, specifically emotionally? Really, what that can look like if you're sharing something with me that was stressful at work, first and foremost that I am available, but that I'm responsive and that I'm able to enter into that space with you just to care.

I don't have to fix it because more than likely I can't. I can just lean in and be present and listen and validate and empathize. All of those things are skills that you can learn and you can practice with your spouse, you can practice with others, and you can practice them with yourself.

Dr. Greg Smalley: A question that you could ask your spouse is something like, "What am I doing that communicates that I am emotionally available to you?"

Erin Smalley: I would say that you consistently are emotionally available to me, especially in this season. Being willing to take my calls, and if I call more than once, you know there's a reason I'm calling again, that something's going on and I need you.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Versus seeing the phone and going, "Ugh, it's Erin again. She's going to share something."

Erin Smalley: Or just not answering. I just need you to answer the phone. When you answer the phone, you let me know, "Hey, I'm in a meeting, is everything okay?" I might say, "Thanks for taking my call, I've got something to share, but can you call me back when you're out of the meeting?" That's just courteous.

What you do really well is you listen and then you really ask questions and seek to understand and validate. It's okay that you're feeling exactly how you're feeling. It makes sense. You just care and then you'll follow up later on and go, "Hey, how's that going? Did something change? How are you feeling?" You are persistent and consistent with it.

Dr. Greg Smalley: For me, if I'm sharing something, it's when you're locked in. Who God created you to be, you can multitask, and there's just so many distractions out there that can grab a hold of you.

Erin Smalley: Right during this take, you were sharing something and I saw one of my dear friends called who had some concerns about her aging parents this morning. I thought, "She's calling, is everything okay?" I got very distracted by the phone.

But it's when I'm not doing that, when I'm not distracted by the phone or by something else. I'm locked into what you're talking about, asking questions, being present, giving you eye contact even.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Like the other day, one of our kids, I won't say who, but this child, you and I were engaged in a conversation and they came up and they wanted to ask you something. I love that you literally stuck your hand out and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Your dad's talking right now, so I'll get you later."

It looked like a football stiff arm to another player. You did that really well and that just spoke emotional availability, that you were so dialed in that, "Hey, my child, you wait. I will get you later." I really appreciate that.

If you want to learn more about how to strengthen your walk with God or how to empower your marriage, consider clicking the donation page and getting your copy of Dr. Gary Thomas's book, "Making Your Marriage a Fortress." It's such a great resource. With your gift of any amount, this book can be yours. You can find out more about that in the show notes.

Erin Smalley: Greg and I truly enjoy engaging with you every week, sharing about our marriage issues and how we work through our storms. We've come a long, long way since this podcast began. In fact, I wanted to share that our listenership numbers have actually increased 29%. We couldn't have done this without you, our listeners, and we want to thank you for your support.

Dr. Greg Smalley: If you'd like to join us in the fight to help couples have the marriage relationship that they've always wanted, or if you want to help marriages that are struggling, you can join us in a couple of ways. First of all, we'd love and appreciate your prayers for this outreach.

You can also contribute financially to help support the show, or you can just be a great cheerleader for this cause. Tell your friends about the podcast and share the link. We appreciate that you're with us each week.

Erin Smalley: If you've listened to the show, you know how important date nights are for a balanced marriage. If you haven't gone out on a date night with your spouse lately, here's the assignment: set a date, go to dinner and a movie, but schedule some time to talk about your future together. Here's a fun activity that you can do as you and your spouse plan. It's kind of like a vision board.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We've talked about vision boards before and we love that you've shared some of your plans with us as you've reached out. Your creativity has been so fun to watch. For example, one couple told us that they're building in a monthly vision board ceremony. They light a candle together that symbolizes their union and then they pick one item to concentrate on and then bring life that month.

Erin Smalley: That's awesome. Another couple told us about making a "momentum lane" on their vision board. It's a strip on the side for all their pictures of the things that they are actively bringing to life. For them, it's physical proof that the vision is turning to reality. Doing this activity, working on a vision board together, is a real bonding experience.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Erin and I are going to encourage you to think through some goals for your marriage for this next year using what they call the SMART method. This is when you set a goal and it's specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-bound. This always starts with the idea of being specific. Instead of saying, "Hey, we just want to be happier," or "We want a stronger marriage," it's really leaning in to go, "What exactly do we want to see happen in our marriage this year?"

Instead of just saying "have better communication," instead be real specific. Maybe you guys hone in on having a daily 10-minute check-in.

Erin Smalley: Or instead of saying "prioritize date nights," specifically, let's go on two dates per month.

Dr. Greg Smalley: You might say, "Oh, we just want to serve together this year." Well, making it specific would be choosing one ministry or a cause to volunteer in as a couple.

Erin Smalley: Or maybe you want to increase play and laughter. You would say, "Add one new hobby or playful tradition as a couple."

Dr. Greg Smalley: Instead of saying, "We want to improve our household teamwork," it's really to sit down and walk through the chores that we have and really divide that out in a way that feels good to both of us.

Erin Smalley: With all of these, again, you want it to be SMART: specific as well as measurable. That means that you need to know what does success look like? Make it measurable: the number of weekly date nights, monthly budget check-ins, or daily prayer time.

Dr. Greg Smalley: And make sure it's attainable. Like for now, Erin, if our goal is, "Well, we're going to travel the world," that's probably not the right season for us to do this yet. Someday as we retire and launch all of our kids, maybe then that could be our goal to visit these three countries, to make it specific.

Erin Smalley: As well as you want to make it relevant, making sure that the items align with your shared values, dreams, and priorities. For example, your spiritual growth, family goals, finances, or emotional connection.

Dr. Greg Smalley: And make sure it's time-bound. That's the last part of the SMART goal, that there's a clear timing to this. Maybe it's over the next 30 days, or over the next six months, or a year so that we each have a sense of, "Okay, yeah, this is for 30 days or for six months."

Erin Smalley: Yes, and we'd love for you to share your vision board ideas, so reach out to us through the show notes. Have fun, you guys.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Let's move on to our weekly Q&A.

Erin Smalley: This young lady asked us a question in the spring of last year, however, she reached out to us again for a follow-up. This is from our loyal listener Bailey.

"Greg and Erin, I just wanted to say thank you for everything you do and all the great content. Unfortunately, my marriage just ended in divorce. I honestly felt like a failure at first, but after relistening to what you guys had said to me, I can find some comfort in knowing I did everything that I could. I'm struggling now to keep my heart soft towards him because he's gone public with his new relationship. I keep praying for him, but I also feel God telling me to move on, but part of me still feels guilty for it. I appreciate the prayer and the book you sent. God bless."

Dr. Greg Smalley: Bailey, thank you so much for writing in to update us. Divorce is such a difficult season that you're walking out. It's a devastating loss. Erin and I want to say, first and foremost, and we think you are saying this, that you're not a failure. A failed marriage does not mean that you're a failed person.

Bailey, just over the multiple times that you've reached out, we heard someone who was really fighting for her marriage, who was doing everything that she could do. You were seeking wisdom, you were seeking counseling, you were seeking all these things. You are most certainly not a failure.

Erin Smalley: I agree wholeheartedly with that. Of course, it's difficult on the flip side of a divorce to see him going public with a new relationship. That has to ignite hurt and pain and maybe even feels like salt in an open wound. You're not wrong for your feelings, whatever that is: angry, sad, maybe even confused.

Those are real emotions that are coming through your grief process because as you walk through divorce, there's a lot of grief. There's loss you never dreamt, Bailey, that this is what was going to happen. You didn't want this. There is grief involved.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Bailey, just listening to what you're going through and how you're choosing to show up. So many people through a divorce allow their hearts to become so hardened, and you are not doing that. The fact that you're still praying for him really tells us that your heart is still soft, that it's responsive to God, and we're just so proud of you because this is such a difficult season that you're walking out.

Erin Smalley: Just recognize your opportunity is to fully lean into God and the healing that He has for you. He will restore. He binds up broken hearts and He's close to the brokenhearted. I just encourage you in this season of grief and healing, recognize God has more for you beyond this. This is not the end of your story and we just want to give you that hope that there is more living for you to do.

Dr. Greg Smalley: It makes sense that you're struggling, and we just would want to say to you that you're not moving away from your marriage, you're moving towards the healing that God really has for you. Keep letting Him guide your steps, keep surrounding yourself with the support that you're doing, keep allowing your heart to soften, not towards your ex-husband's choices, but really towards your own future.

Erin Smalley: Thank you, Bailey, so much for reaching out and letting us know where you're at and how things are going. We're so sorry that you've walked through this divorce, but it's remembering it is not the end of your story. You mentioned that you shared your book, "Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage," with others, so we're going to send you another one so you can gift it to one of your friends or you can hold on to it. Thank you again so much for your commitment to our show.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Thank you for joining us on Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage.

Erin Smalley: Yes, thank you for following the show and sharing it with your friends and family. We want you to have a seat at the table every week as we help equip you and your spouse to have a lifelong satisfying marriage.

Dr. Greg Smalley: We want to see you guys growing spiritually as a couple and as individuals.

Erin Smalley: So you can turn around and invest in other couples to help them build thriving marriages.

Dr. Greg Smalley: Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you again next Monday about this crazy little thing called marriage.

Jim Daly: Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share His truth with a world in need.

I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at RefocusWithJimDaly.com.