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Guest (Female): This is Connect with Skip Heitzig. Thanks for joining us today. Here at Connect with Skip, we love to help you know God's word better and apply it to your life through clear, practical Bible teaching and real encouragement. And if you'd like to keep growing in your walk with Jesus, sign up for Pastor Skip's free weekly devotional. You'll receive biblical insight, teaching highlights, and exclusive resource offers designed to help you stay strong in your faith, all delivered right to your inbox. Signing up is quick and easy, and you'll be glad you did. Go to connectwithskip.com and join the list today. That's connectwithskip.com. Now, let's dive into today's teaching from Pastor Skip Heitzig.

Skip Heitzig: Rather than fighting the variety in the body of Christ, enjoy the variety. God is a God of variety. Look at us all; we're all different. And in looking around at us all, I must come to the conclusion that God loves variety. And as I look around the world, I discover God loves variety. If every country, every state had the same exact terrain, how boring it would be. You could never go on vacation. Why would you? It all looks the same. Or here's another example: On Christmas, if every person that you got a gift from gave you the same exact gift, well, there'd be no anticipation. So the variety is what is a beautiful thing about the body of Christ. Enjoy the variety.

So he has given—verse eight. "Therefore he says: 'When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, gave gifts to men.'" Now this, "He ascended." What does it mean but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Now I need to unpack this because he is quoting from the Old Testament. Verse eight is a direct quote out of Psalm 68. Psalm 68 is attributed to King David. It is a victory hymn. It is about God ascending up to Mount Zion and assuming control. And he then talks about the history of the people of Israel coming from Mount Sinai through the desert, God miraculously bringing them up to Mount Zion and God ascending to the place of prominence.

It is believed that David wrote that psalm when the city of Jerusalem was still a Jebusite city. Do you remember the story? We covered in 2 Samuel chapter five, been a while. David and his army approached the Jebusite stronghold. The Jebusites had a wall around the city. They were so confident that their town could not be taken that they shouted out to David and said, "Even the lame and the blind can fight you guys off," because we have such a vantage point. They could just drop a few stones on you guys, and you'll never get through the bulwarks of our town.

So David and his men discovered a water shaft from the city limits all the way down into the ground, down into the Gihon Spring, where they would drop buckets and bring water up inside the city walls. He discovered the vertical shaft that goes from just above the pool of Siloam up into the city. And so he said to his men, "The first guy who can get up that water shaft, I'm going to make him commander in chief of my army." Well, guy by the name of Joab did exactly that. He scurried up, he broke through the forces, he put a breach in the wall, the rest of the army came in, and they took the city of Zion.

David describes that in—by the way, if you go to Jerusalem whenever they open up again for tourism, that very shaft has been discovered. You can be at the bottom of it, you can look up where it goes from light into darkness, and you can look at the very water shaft that David's men, and principally Joab, went up to take that city over. So when that happened, evidently David wrote this psalm that God has ascended. And he applies that to the ascension of Jesus Christ. But notice this in quoting that, the victory over the captives.

Now this, verse nine, "He ascended. What does it mean but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the one who ascended far above the heavens," the ascension of Christ, "that he might fill all things." The descending is probably a reference principally to the incarnation. He went from heaven to earth. He came from heaven to earth. He descended from heaven, came to the earth, became a man, died on a cross, rose from the dead, and then he ascended.

But there's something besides just that, even though I think that's the initial blush of interpretation. It uses the term he descended into the lower parts of the earth. So listen to how Peter puts it. This is 1 Peter chapter three. For, he says, "Christ suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, by whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison."

It seems that when Jesus died on the cross, that though his body was dead, his body was buried in a tomb, his spirit was very much alive, and those three days he went to a place and announced to the spirit realm what had taken place. Remember what Jesus said when they asked him for a sign? Says, "Show us a sign if you are who you say you are." Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation is looking for a sign, but you'll have no sign except the sign of the prophet Jonah. As Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth," the middle of the earth, "three days and three nights," maybe referencing this idea, going to this place of the spirit realm.

Also in Luke 16, Jesus tells a story. And I underline the word story; it's not a parable, it's a story. A parable he says, "The kingdom of God is like," that's a parable, or he says, "Hear a parable." But in this story, he gives proper names and he illustrates an event that has happened. He said there were two men, a rich man and a poor man. The rich man fared sumptuously, the poor man Lazarus was laid at the gate of the rich man. He was begging every day and scraping the sores that were on his body. Both of them died and went into the grave, into Hades.

And one, the rich man, was in the torment side of Hades. He cried out in torment. Whereas Lazarus was in the place called Abraham's bosom, a place of comfort. But Lazarus could look across this great gulf and see the rich man, the rich man could look across this great gulf and see Lazarus, and he yelled over and he said, "Lazarus," or he said to God, "Send Lazarus over to let him dip his finger in water and dab it on my tongue. I'm tormented in this heat." God said, "He can't come over there, you can't come over to his side. There's a great gulf that is fixed."

And so the rich man said, "Well then, send Lazarus back to the earth to tell my family not to come to this torment place." And the word back to him is, "Look, they would not believe even though somebody rose from the dead." Now, I believe this: Jesus descended to the earth, cross, burial, resurrection, but he went to the lower parts of the earth. He announced to the spirit realm, it's a done deal. Now all you Old Testament saints who are in this place of comfort, Abraham's bosom, can go directly into the presence of God. You've been comforted, but now you will have full access. That is how some people interpret that.

The other side of Hades, the tormented side, the side where the rich man was—"I'm tormented in these flames"—is still active now. And when a person dies today without Christ, that's where they go. That will stay active and be in place until after the thousand-year millennial reign of Christ on the earth. There will be a great white throne judgment. And it says this in Revelation 20: "Then death and hell gave up their dead, and they are sentenced before the great white throne and they are thrown into the lake of fire." So they go from bad to worse to the eternal hell, but until then, that place is still active.

So he who ascended, descended first into the lower parts of the earth that he might fill all things. That's when he ascended up into heaven. And in doing so, quoting going back to Psalm 68, he gave himself—he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and some teachers. Now these are all gifts of the Spirit. But I need to make a differentiation. "He himself gave some to be apostles." You see the word 'be'? Is that italicized in your Bible? When it's italicized, it means it's not in the original. It was added for clarification because the translators thought it would clear things up if we put the word he gave some to be, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers.

The way it should read without the 'be' is he gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors, some churches. The gift that God gave to the church are the people.

Guest (Male): You're listening to Connect with Skip Heitzig. Every day, the generosity of friends like you helps make clear verse-by-verse Bible teaching available to people searching for truth, purpose, and hope. And this month, we want to thank you with a pair of powerful resources to help you understand your identity in Christ and God's design for your life and relationships. When you give, you'll receive the Expound Ephesians nine-CD series with digital download, along with Pastor Skip's book, Beyond the Summer of Love. Together, these resources explore the richness of the gospel, reveal your place in God's family, and show how biblical truth brings strength, restoration, and lasting hope to your relationships. We'll send both resources as our thanks when you give $50 or more to support Connect with Skip Heitzig. Call 800-922-1888 or visit connectwithskip.com/offer. Now, let's return to today's teaching from Pastor Skip Heitzig.

Skip Heitzig: God gave the evangelist, God gave the apostle as a gift to the church. The gift here are gifted individuals that God gives as gifts to a congregation. So when people say, "Who do you think you are, God's gift?" You can say, "Why yes, I do. Yes, I am. I am God's gift who has equipped me and gifted me and enabled me for some spiritual capacity and has given me to the church to do a work of the ministry." Now all these are different from one another. He gave some to be apostles. An apostle was a governing position. An apostle was like an ancient missionary; they would start churches, they would be in charge of churches in a certain area. So they were—it was a governing type gift.

And then he gave some prophets. Prophet is a guiding gift. A prophet would speak forth the word of God, give spiritual truth. It could be something prepared like in a Bible study, or a prophet could be a spontaneous prophetic word from the Lord laid on an individual's heart to give to a certain person. So we have a governing gift, we have a guiding gift. He gave some to be prophets, some to be evangelists. Now, an evangelist is a gathering office. An evangelist preaches the gospel and gathers people into the church, new people into the body of Christ. Then some pastors.

Pastors, that's a guarding ministry. They feed the sheep, they take care of the sheep, they make sure the sheep are healthy, they're under their care. And teachers, that's a grounding gift. You don't necessarily have to be a pastor if you have the gift of teaching, but if you are a pastor, you have to have the gift of teaching. Let me say that again: You can be a teacher and not be a pastor, but you can't be a pastor without being a teacher. Because even though it says pastors and teachers, and the Greek word that connects them, pastors and teachers, is the Greek word 'kai', k-a-i, that's how we'd spell it, kai.

There is a Greek rule of linguistics called the Granville Sharp Rule that sees pastors kai or and teachers as one office. In Greek it's *poimenas kai didaskalous*, pastors and teachers, but it denotes the same exact person. One is the office, one is the gift. So God gives some to be apostles, he gives others to be prophets, he gives some to be evangelists and some pastor-hyphen-teacher. Pastor-hyphen-teacher. The role is pastor, the gift is teaching. Many of you are good at teaching the scriptures: one-on-one discipleship, small groups, groups here at the church. You have the gift of teaching. You don't have to be a pastor to exercise a gift of teaching. But if you are a pastor, you must have the gift of teaching or you ain't a pastor, based on this linguistic rule, the Granville Sharp Rule.

A pastor that is a teacher, and God gives all of these different gifts to the body of Christ. Why? What's the reason? What's the end game? For the equipping of the saints. This is the purpose of the church. Why do we gather together? Is the purpose of the church primarily for evangelism? No. Is it primarily for worship? No. It is primarily to equip the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. So all these gifted individuals that God has graciously given to the church with these gifts that God has given to the individuals, all of these are for the equipping of the saints.

Now I love this verse because what it tells me is that I am not, as the pastor of this church, I am not responsible for meeting all your needs. What I am responsible for is learning and disseminating, teaching the scripture to equip you to do the work of the ministry. "Well Skip, there's a need over here, I think you ought to do it." Don't think so. "Well there's a need there, I think you ought to fill that." I don't think so. I go back to in Acts chapter six and chapter seven. There was a need and they came to the apostles. And the apostles said, "You know what, you choose seven men full of the Holy Spirit who can do that. God has called us to study the word of God and to pray."

So as we study the word of God and pray, we will teach the word of God. The teaching of the word of God will equip you, you in turn will serve the saints, and the whole body will be edified. So my role principally as pastor-teacher is to edify the body of Christ along with the other gifts, build you up, equip you so that you can do the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ. So that's the pattern. These gifted individuals equip the saints, the saints serve the body of Christ, and the body of Christ is edified or built up.

What happens when that happens? Verse 13, "Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect or a complete, a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Further, "that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part," you included, "every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying," means building up, "of itself in love."

So when gifted people, all of us, that God has given to the church exercise our God-given talents and gifts, it does three things: It promotes unity, it breeds maturity, and third, stability. First of all, unity. Verse 13: "Till we all come to the unity of the faith." Remember he said, "Endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit." How do I do that? Get involved, use your gift, get equipped, exercise your gift. That'll promote unity. We all come to the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect or complete man. And now here is the maturity: "To the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

Are you there yet? The measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. I'm not there yet. We're all growing, we're all moving, we're all learning. And that's part of salvation. God saves you, then God sanctifies you, and that's part of the sanctifying process, a maturity that develops. Now, we all should be growing up. That's the theme of the book of James: We all should be growing up. Unfortunately, physical age does not equate to spiritual age. You can have an eighty-year-old person who has been a Christian a long time, but they effectively are still in diapers spiritually. Have you ever watched an adult throw a tantrum? It's not pretty, and it's possible.

So unity followed by maturity. We should all be aiming, all be moving, all be growing toward the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. But then finally stability happens, that we, verse 14, "no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine." When you are equipped with the truth, I've noticed something: Every new wind of doctrine, every new church fad, spiritual fad that comes on the scene doesn't really affect you much.

Early on when we first moved to Albuquerque, we had noticed that a lot of different ministries had come through town and took advantage of the fact that we're a major crossroads on two major freeways. And so in going from place to place, they would naturally stop here and they would put on their evangelistic shows. They would take—some of them would take offerings with trash cans and said that it's God's will that the trash cans be filled to the brim, and they keep passing them around these meetings several times until they were.

And what I noticed as some of—early on, because I haven't seen much of that lately—I noticed that it really didn't impact our church that much because they weren't being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. They were just steady on course, maturing and growing in the word. So when you are equipped, there comes this unity, there comes maturity, there comes spiritual stability. So it is important—and we'll close with this thought—that you are about discovering your spiritual capability. You have natural tendencies. Awesome. That's what you were born with. But you have those that you were born again with, and they can interface and work well with each other.

They don't always or they don't have to necessarily. Moses hated being in front of people; God made him a spokesperson. So there are exceptions to those rules, but they can interface. And the joy is when you discover what that is. Jesus Christ is the head of the body of Christ, the Holy Spirit acts more or less like the nervous system, conveying the wishes of Christ, the wishes of the brain to all the different parts. And when we all get the message and get involved, the body of Christ is built up.

Guest (Male): Thanks for joining us today on Connect with Skip Heitzig. Before we go, remember: Your generosity helps share God's word with people around the world, offering truth, hope, and encouragement where it's needed most. And this month, we'd love to thank you for your gift of $50 or more by sending you the Expound Ephesians nine-CD series with digital download, along with Pastor Skip's book, Beyond the Summer of Love. These resources will help you understand your identity in Christ and see how God's design brings strength and restoration to your relationships. Give today at connectwithskip.com/offer or call 800-922-1888. See you next time on Connect with Skip Heitzig.

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