Ask Pastor Mike Fabarez

Speaker 1

What happens to our bodies after we die? Is it okay for Christians to practice cremation? Well, it's the end of another week, and we're queued up for another edition of Ask Pastor Mike. We'll answer those questions and more today on Focal Point.

And welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host, Dave Droue, and it's time for another Q and A session with Pastor Mike. Well, every week at this time, we clear our schedule to entertain questions from our listening family, like this one.

Now, you've probably attended a few memorials in your lifetime, and you may even know somebody whose ashes were scattered instead of being buried. What does the Bible say about this practice? Well, let's enter into the pastor's study with executive director of Focal Point, Jay Worton to find out.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Dave. I am here with Pastor Mike. Pastor Mike, today's question is a bit morbid. A listener asks, is it okay for Christians to get cremated?

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 4

A lot of pastors will say, well, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3

Body is dead.

Speaker 4

It really doesn't matter.

Speaker 3

And I would differ from that. I do think it matters. I think it has mattered in the pages of Scripture that your body, to speak from a Christian perspective, certainly was a sacred vessel. It was something that, according to First Corinthians 6, not only did your spirit indwell in this body, but the Holy Spirit dwelt there. And God's not done with the body yet. God is going to resurrect the body.

And just like Christ's body was laid in the ground, that body came forth from the ground. It is the pattern of scripture. It has been from the beginning. I mean, all the way back to the Book of Genesis. Burial was important. I think of Abraham working hard to make sure he had a place to provide a proper burial for Sarah all the way through Christ and Joseph of Arimathea in a place to bury the body of Christ.

It is the biblical pattern, and there are lots of biblical examples of this, so much so that Ecclesiastes 6 Solomon says, you know, what is your life if you can't enjoy the things that you have and then in the end have a proper burial. I mean, there's something to that, to give that kind of finality to the resting of the vessel that contained a person's spirit and to lay it aside respectfully for the coming resurrection.

That is the pattern. And before we break a biblical pattern, we ought to have a really good, I think, scriptural reason for denying that practice. That's the practice of the scripture. And I believe that's what I would counsel parishioners to continue in that practice.

Speaker 2

Pastor MIKE Some people will bring up the burning of Saul's bones. What is going on there?

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, they'd be very informed if they brought that up. Most people don't even know that story. But, yeah, there was the desecration of Saul's bones after he died on Mount Gilboa. And that's true. There were the burning of the bones. The men of Jabesh Gilead went out and got his body off the wall of Beth Shan and brought it back, and they burned his body. I would say it had been there for days. It was desecrated. It was in horrific shape. And you can only imagine how grotesque that scene was—the beheaded, decapitated body of Saul.

They brought it back, and they did burn it. That's the only example of a good guy, if you will, being burned. But if you notice what happens next in that passage, they go then and respectfully bury the bones of Saul. I think there were extenuating circumstances that called for that in that situation. The transport of the body and the burial of the body is what happened. There was an interment of the body after it was burned.

Other than that, every time you see the burning of a body in the Bible, it's seen as a sign of judgment, and it's never presented in scripture as a good thing. There's only that one narrative description of it happening to a good guy.

Speaker 2

Was the burning of bodies done by other nations that were worshiping foreign gods.

Speaker 3

Sure. The human sacrifices of the Canaanites way back in the 15th century, before Christ, involved the burning of bodies. It was a horrible thing because it was done while people were alive. And that's the most egregious part of it.

But, yeah, we've had this, of course, through a lot of practices in India and other places around the world, and it's been going on for many, many years.

However, if you open up the Bible, you recognize that the pattern of scripture is the internment, the burial of bodies, and that's the practice. I would say that if we were going to break the practice, we ought to have a really compelling reason to break that biblical pattern.

Speaker 2

Pastor MIKE I'm sure there are some sitting out there listening right now, going, wait a second, I've cremated a loved one. Yeah, what next?

Speaker 3

Right. Well, there's nothing we can do about that. Obviously, practically speaking, what's done is done. And as far as the resurrection goes, of course God is more than capable of resurrecting the body from whatever state it may be in.

Which, by the way, I should say, parenthetically, that doesn't mean, because God can, we should force him to in every case in the body of our loved ones. But if you have, I wouldn't worry about the resurrection. I wouldn't worry about even saying, well, what can I do? I can't go back and change that. Guilt is not going to be helpful in this regard.

I would just say, listen, I would move forward. If this is a compelling, brief discussion, certainly should do more research on this. But if you change your view and at one point maybe did it because that's what everyone's doing, or you thought it was a good idea and you change your view, just tell God, confess that, and then move forward.

Then change your practice with loved ones in the future and maybe even in your own will and your trust or whatever you have regarding the instructions regarding your own body. So I wouldn't think that this realization, if you have this and you understand it from what I believe a biblical perspective, should be cause for any kind of protracted guilt or any kind of frustration.

Just move forward. God will deal with the past, and we can try and maybe more closely follow the biblical pattern in the future.

Speaker 2

Pastor Mike, you spoke at the very beginning a little bit about why we should be concerned about the body. Could you talk a little bit more about that in terms of man being made in the image of God and how that relates to cremation?

Speaker 3

Yeah. And it is a bad illustration, and probably bad because I just thought of it. But I'm thinking if you had something, the most precious thing in the world, the most precious liquid you could possibly have, and you poured it into a vessel, some kind of vase or some kind of jar, some kind of urn or some kind of glass, you would want to treat that whole thing as special, which of course we do.

Beings have a dignity because they're made in the image of God. And you might say, well, the most sacred part of that is what's poured into us, our spirit. And you're right. But the whole of that is important. The body is made, sanctified—use a biblical word—because of what it contains, and doubly so, more, so exponentially more, because the spirit of God dwells in Christians.

So we are special because we are made in the image of God. We have an intellect and emotion and will and a personality that reflects something that rocks and trees and animals and birds and dogs and lions, they just don't have. And that makes us different. And it makes our bodies, by association with that spirit, different.

And more than that, because the spirit of God dwells in each Christian. I mean, there's just something so sacred about who we are. That's why there are laws in the books and always have been in our Christian country, quote, unquote, our culturally Christian country, about the desecration of corpses. It's against the law, it's wrong, it's immoral because of what we are.

We're not just animals. We are not just things and inanimate objects. We are animals animated in the most important way. We're animated by a spirit that is created in the image of God.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Pastor Mike. I'm sure this conversation has been very informative for our listeners. And we're going to continue on this topic with a message you gave called man in the Image of God from the theological study series Fallen Humanity.

Speaker 4

Probably once a month we get a question about animals. We need to recognize, as high as they are in the creative order, there is a clear line of demarcation between every animal that God has ever made and mankind in Genesis. They are up on the higher echelon of God's creative work, but they are certainly not in the image of God, as we'll see when it comes to animals. They are excluded from that definition or anything else in the creative narrative of Genesis 1. You have in Genesis 1:26 the statement, "Let us make man in our image after our own likeness." And those two words play throughout this narrative. Looking back to this narrative later in the Bible, we see the terms "image" and "likeness." I don't make any theological distinction here between these two words; I just want to look at them briefly.

"Teslum," this Hebrew word that is translated "image," if you look this up and examine every reference to it, you would find the definition is similar to "it bears some semblance from one thing to the next." A painting, for instance, is not the real thing, but it's a semblance, a depiction of it. That's how it's often used in a very common sense. "Demuth" is the other word that's translated "likeness." While "image" and "likeness" are similar, you will find that "demuth" is used more often in terms of abstract references. For example, in Psalm 58, verses 3 and 4, it states, "The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth; they speak lies; they have venom." They really don't have venom like the venom of a serpent. This is almost like an illustrative or parabolic reference. There's a semblance, a similarity, but it's more of an abstract correspondence.

If you look for this distinction, which is very subtle, and try to build theology on it, as some people have done in the past and some do today, I think you'll come to some wrong conclusions. You know this: John 4:24 describes God as spirit. In essence, He is spirit. That's the passage where Jesus speaks to the woman at the well, saying He is looking for worshipers that worship in spirit and truth. The idea is that He is spirit, and this was because we're doing away with the temple in Jerusalem. God is making a point about who He is. You can look elsewhere in the Bible; it's everywhere, right? God dwells in an approachable light. No man has seen God or can see God clearly. When we talk directly about what God is, He is spirit. There's no physical component to something that is spirit.

Now, clearly, we believe in the incarnation. Jesus Christ showed up, and He has two ears, a nose, eyebrows, teeth, a chin. Of course, you could say, "Well, sure, God," as He says to His disciples, "is spirit." But if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. We must not be talking about a visual image of something physical because the Bible is clear that God is spirit. So what are we dealing with? To use a word that has been coined throughout discussions of what this means, let me introduce the word: personhood. We clearly can't be talking about the physical aspects of God. We've got to be talking about whatever it means to speak of someone as a person.

By that, if you look at the context of what's going on, it's certainly different than trees and rocks because it's animated. Like animals, they are animated; they're alive, they move, they can make noises, they breathe—whatever animated means, not in a physical sense, but as it relates to personhood. Now I'm starting to get some sense of what it means that I'm made in God's image. To be made in God's image is more than just being animated and alive. It's having the ability to reflexively and rationally think, to be able to cogitate, to process thoughts in my mind that could come out in speech or creativity.

Elsewhere, we find, though we don't see it in Genesis chapter one, that by Genesis chapter six, we have all these chapters between one and six about people feeling all kinds of feelings. Whether it's Adam or Eve or Cain or Abel, we have lots of emotions being displayed. Then God comes in Genesis 6 and says, "I am grieved in my heart." The idea of being pained in my heart indicates that I'm having an emotional feeling about the sin on the planet, just prior to the Flood. We see the correspondence; it's very different than just having something animated or alive. It goes beyond that—volition, the ability to make rational decisions, to prompt, to plan, to strategize, to have thoughts express themselves with purpose.

A being that is not just flocking like an animal might flock together, but having the kind of concern for self-disclosure and the acquisition of knowledge of other human beings—moral and ethical. This goes a bit further. We'll see these distinctions in passages like Psalm 32, which describe animals in contrast to human beings, not having the ability to feel grief and guilt—not because of something that hurt or because of something that was caught or exposed, but something that we just know through a conscience was wrong before God and His plan.

To have a conscience, to be moral, to have a sense of ethics, to feel that sense of shame and guilt over a decision that didn't just destroy but one that hurt a relationship—of course, in context, we have so much talk about dominion and jurisdiction. This is yours, this earth; subdue it—these plants, these animals. Limited dominion, but it's a dominion that you have, just like God has dominion. Even that idea of subduing the world, creating that element that's going to produce something that will be much like we had described in the first 25 verses of the Bible: God creating, giving us a pattern of creating six days a week, producing something, creating something, standing back and saying that was good.

If there's anything that distinguishes us from the rest of God's creation, it would be that we're animated. We have intellect, emotion, and will. We're relational, moral, ethical. We have dominion and sovereignty over things. We create and produce, and even produce things just for the pleasure of standing back and saying it was good. That's really good art. I mean, you don't see a lot of art shows among the animals, right? There's no museums.

That's a list again for not only what you know and experience as a human being but what you see in the Bible about the God of the Bible: a God who's alive, a God who thinks, a God who reasons, a God who's feeling emotions, a God who makes decisions and plans, a God who seeks relationship, a God who cares about ethics, a God who has sovereignty and dominion, and a God who creates and even sometimes creates just for the sake of beauty and enjoyment and pleasure.

All right, let's keep moving. I think about life here on Earth and what we experience as human beings now and the picture of God. If you have a really good understanding of the Bible, wow, it just seems like the chasm between God and His image in the pages of Scripture and God's image in my life or my neighbor's life or my co-worker's life seems like there's a big gap between.

Speaker 3

Between those two.

Speaker 4

Well, as I like to say, there's the idea of God's image being damaged; certainly, it is damaged, but it's not destroyed. There's a lot of things you can say about this. I mean, even if you're thinking in theological terms, like words such as total depravity, you can use that word if you want. It really does not in any way destroy the image of God.

This is very familiar. Psalm 8, verse 3: "When I look at the heavens," the Psalmist says, "the work of your fingers, the moon, the stars." I mean, without TV and without a lot of city lights, you can imagine it's like being out camping all the time. You see the magnitude of nature. And he says, "When I think of all that, I think, what is man, human beings, that you're mindful of him?" Speaking in the singular here, mankind and the Son of man. I mean, here we are, we're generations from the first man, and it's getting worse, not better, in terms of who we are. And he says that you would care for him. Look at all the sin and history of mankind, the fallenness that's displayed itself in sin, murder, rape, pillaging people, and wars. Why would you care? Yet you've made him—here's his worth—a little lower than, now, here's how the ESV translates it, "heavenly beings."

Now, if you've ever dealt with this passage, and maybe in your reference Bible or maybe just the ESV, you'll find in the margin there, this is the Hebrew word Elohim. The reason I think the translators here translated "heavenly beings" is that it's been a debate. Elohim, if you know, is the word that's often translated, usually translated, "God," typically with a capital G. Now, the problem with God is he's so majestic and so transcendent and so great that he is described—one of the nouns for him, Elohim, is describing God or depicting God. But the word itself is plural, which is a little confusing. Anytime you see a Hebrew word transliterated with an "I am" at the end of it—Elohim, cherubim—"I am" at the end, that's plural. So when you say Elohim, that can be capital G, God, because he's so great, he's not contained in a singular.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 4

We call that a majestic plural in Hebrew grammar. Or you could be talking about small G, plural S. Gods. The idols are called gods. The things that people trust in are called the gods. Even the angels are called the gods. So here the translation is heavenly beings. And that goes way back to before the time of Christ. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible in the wake of Alexander the Great, before the time of Christ, a couple centuries before Christ, it was translated into Greek.

Now, these 70 scholars that worked on this took every passage and they were caring about the true translation of this text. And so they're very careful about moving Hebrew words into Greek words. In this text, it was not translated Theos or the I. It wasn't translated into plural. It wasn't gods and it wasn't God. They translated this as Angelos. Angelos, you know, because it's transliterated into English as the word angels.

So what the psalmist is referring to, we don't know. But all we know is that it's something about something greater than us. Whether it's the angelic court, whether it's some sense of God himself. But here, just a little bit lower than something so beyond human, something supernatural. That's how you've created us and you've crowned us.

Here's two words usually given to God. All the glory, all the honor, all the riches and power go to God. Well, here God has endowed human beings with glory and honor. This is just a description of mankind. You know that from the singular there in verse four. What is the Son of man that you cared for him? Mankind. You've given him. Now we're back to Genesis, chapter one. Dominion over all the works of your hands. And you've put all things under his feet.

He's supposed to be in charge of things down here. All the sheep, all the oxen, all the beasts of the field, the birds of the heaven, the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the path of the sea. He's in charge down here. He's at the pinnacle of creation. He's not the largest, he's not the strongest, he's not the fastest, he can't fly, but he's supposed to be. And he is endowed with such glory and honor that he's just a little bit lower than the gods or the angelic beings or perhaps God himself.

Big statement about mankind even after the fall. But you keep talking about there's no distinction really between Christians and non-Christians. Well, let me make just the point that there is a distinction. There's always a priority in the Bible, in the New Testament in particular, as it relates to what regeneration does. Regeneration, generation to mate, regenerate, to remake, to reborn, you know, to rebirth. Someone to be born again.

Someone who's born again has in their life, according to the Bible, this restored image of God. And that becomes something that now is my goal, sanctification. Usually as we use it just as a standalone word, we're describing a process. And the process is that trying to get back to and restore the image of God.

What kind of thinking would he have, what kind of emotions would he share right now? What kind of decisions and planning and strategy would he make? What kind of even things would he do that he would stand back and say, that's a good product, that's well done? Those are the kinds of things I'm shooting for in my sanctification.

Of course, the God-man, Jesus Christ, is held up as the perfect template for us because the people in the first century got to experience him and see him and listen to him teach. And in Romans, in the wake of all that, verse 29 says those he foreknew, that is, for loved ahead of time, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. It's a process of conforming them to be more like Christ. And we say that all the time, to be Christlike. That's the goal. As it's put in Second Corinthians, chapter 3, verse 16 through 18, when one turns to the Lord, there's the idea.

Speaker 3

I think it's a strefo, the word.

Speaker 4

There, like metanoia, to repent, to turn to the Lord. That veil is removed because the context there is talking about how Satan is one who blinds. He'll make that very clear in the next chapter. Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom.

I'm no longer blinded here and with all with unveiled faces because it was the parallel of Moses who had that veil over his face. Now it's gone. We can now behold the glory of the Lord being transformed into the same image. As you stare at Christ, as you see who he is, as you study him, you stare into that image. You get that idea. You now are informed of Christ, and that transforms you into the same image.

From one degree of glory. You look more like Christ this year, I hope, than you did five years ago. You're being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this all comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

And that is his goal in your sanctification, to be more like that original creation before the fall. That's the process. My sanctification is a restoration of God's image. Not his physical image, but his likeness.

Speaker 1

We're created in the likeness of God, so our bodies are worthy of honor. This message from Pastor Mike Febares is called "Man in the Image of God," and you're listening to Focal Point. Maybe listening today brought to mind someone who needs to hear this message. You can get the complete version of this message when you go online to focalpointradio.org.

Well, I don't know if you've been at the bedside of someone about to enter into eternity; it can be tough. But bearing good news when the outlook is bleak is a sacred privilege for ambassadors of Christ. Messages like this one go a long way, bringing comfort and guidance in a difficult time. Now, when you give sacrificially to Focal Point today, you're touching lives for eternity. We're going to thank you for your generosity in giving this month with a book that's a classic called "Gems From Tozer."

Regarding our bodies, author A.W. Tozer writes, "What is the supreme benefaction, the gift and treasure above all others, which God can give? Not heaven, not forgiveness, not thousands of gifts. He makes us the repository of the nature and person of the Lord Jesus." Repository—that's what's meant by "Christ in you, the hope of glory." And that's why you need to read Tozer. Request "Gems From Tozer" by calling 888-320-5885 or by going to focalpointradio.org.

With summer plans ramping up, you can take Focal Point on the go by downloading the mobile app or subscribing to our podcast. You can also check out all the messages you may have missed. You can also find our free resource this month called "Dealing with Mean and Demanding People." Hopefully, you won't run into any on your vacation. The free CD is yours without cost or obligation. Look for it online at focalpointradio.org.

That's focalpointradio.org. I'm Dave Drouehe, so glad you could be with us today. Well, Pastor Mike Febares returns to our study in Luke after the weekend, so be sure to come back Monday for Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.

Speaker 4

Sam.