Ask Pastor Mike Fabarez

Speaker 1

Ever feel like it's time to change churches? Is it really okay to leave a church, or are we supposed to stay put no matter what, till death do us part? Well, sit tight and get the answers today as we talk about church hopping right now on Focal Point.

Well, it's time to cap off another week of Focal Point with welcome to the Q and A session with Pastor Mike Febarez. I'm Dave Droue, and we're diving into another listener question on this edition of Ask. Pastor Mike. Maybe you're entertaining thoughts of leaving your church lately and you're wondering whether to make a change.

Well, not so fast. While a church commitment isn't binding for life, it's a serious change and one that shouldn't be entered into lightly. Well, here's executive director Jay Worton sitting down with Pastor Mike for insight into this important decision.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Dave. Pastor Mike, we have a question about churches today, and a listener asks, is it okay to change churches?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Well, you know, sometimes you have to. Of course, I'm concerned about the church hopper, the one who's chronically moving from church to church for the slightest of reasons.

But, yeah, I mean, to answer the question forthrightly, and I have no idea where this listener is coming from, there are a lot of times you might find that there's a real problem in terms of the doctrinal stand of the church. Maybe you didn't realize that when you came.

Maybe your knowledge of scripture has advanced while you've been there, and you recognize that maybe they don't stand on the historic view of a high view of God and a high view of Scripture.

And yeah, there's definitely times to change churches, but it better be not on slight provocation; it better be a big deal.

Speaker 2

So you talked about some legitimate reasons why somebody might change churches. What are some reasons that the church hopper changes churches and how should we counsel them?

Speaker 4

I've seen a lot of people change churches because they have an idea of what they think they should be doing in the church that frankly they're not very good at or they're not gifted to do. They are told no at a church, and they keep going to church after church to start this particular kind of ministry or engage in the worship team, or, you know, to work in some area with the kids. But they keep moving on because they hit roadblocks in serving. When in reality, sometimes you got to look at the reaction you're getting from leaders and from people you're trying to lead to recognize maybe this is not what God has called me to.

We need to really find what God wants us to do in the local church and not just take our own dreams and aspirations into the church and try and think, well, they're gonna have to find a place for me to do this thing. I want to do my little pet ministry, or, you know, I want to be in some particular role that it's been determined in church after church. Maybe you're not gifted to engage in that. That's one reason some people, I don't know, unfortunately, I see people that move into the church just for the wrong reasons. It's about social circles, and I hate to say this, but sometimes it's about advancing their own business, you know, insurance or real estate or whatever, and they kind of tap out their group in the church and they move on to another church.

I mean, there are some really heinous reasons I find people are moving from church to church. Sometimes people just get bored. They see church as a consumer product for them. After they get kind of used to the pastor's style and they've heard a couple of his jokes or whatever, they think, you know, I'm going to move on. I'm going to find another place that kind of does it for me and grabs my attention. And now that this church is getting old, those are dumb reasons to leave a church for that person. Certainly, they need to be involved in serving, and then they'll find that it's not just about them being served. When the newness wears off, they're going to head on down the street to another church.

Speaker 2

Sometimes people will have issues or troubles or problems in that particular church, and then to get away from those problems, they'll find a new church. Is that legitimate? How should we approach that as Christians?

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Well, it depends on the problem. I find that. And we try as best we can here to ask people who are not new converts, but people that have come from other churches. We want to know why you left the last church.

Many, many times we will send them back to their old church because they're running away from a relational problem or there was a conflict that didn't get resolved. We want to send them to the place to resolve issues that can be resolved and should be resolved, but haven't been resolved. Usually, those are issues of hurt feelings and relationships that just need to be patched up.

We've done that many, many times here as a pastoral team. When we run into people that came from a church and we know it's a good church, we know it's a doctrinally sound church, we say, "Well, why did you leave?" It often ends up being something slight, and we want to send them back to fix that.

So, yeah, there can be issues like that that need to be wrapped up. I think of one situation, I'm thinking of a particular family that moved to our church, and they literally tried all.

Speaker 3

They could do to solve that.

Speaker 4

I even had one on our team discuss their situation with the pastoral team at that other church. And I really think that they had done all they could to resolve their issues there. Even though it's a good, solid church, they just couldn't get the issues resolved that led them to our church.

I thought, okay, they've done what they can do and they've tried to solve the problem. In this case, there needed to be some ownership on both sides of the conflict, and there wasn't.

So, yeah, it was time to move on. I understand that. That family has blossomed and done great serving and ministering in our church, and it was time to leave since we couldn't resolve the conflict there.

Speaker 2

Some people leave because they're unable to maybe form relationships or feel like they're connected. What are some ways, as a pastor of a larger church, that you would counsel people to get connected?

Speaker 4

This is hard because it does really take some effort to get relationally connected in a church. Sometimes people are just waiting for others to come to them, connect with them, and invite them over to their house or out to lunch or what have you. I just think there has to be a legitimate effort made by the new person in the church. Sometimes they're looking across the aisle at someone, expecting that person to make some of those moves toward relationship, connection, and invitation to ministry. Frankly, that person may be just as new as the one who is seeking that connection.

In other words, you've got to take the effort to build relationships. I know for the introvert, the person who likes to be quiet, come late, and sit in the back, it’s going to be hard for them to rearrange what they're comfortable doing in order to step out and connect. In the Bible, so much happened around meals, and that's a great way to connect. If you're new to a church, you ought to be inviting people in the church to connect for lunch after the service.

Open up your home and say, "I’d love to hear more about the church. I’d love to get to know you guys better. Come on over!" It can be simple—let's just grab a pizza and get to know each other. I think people would be very surprised at how receptive others would be to responding relationally to a new couple, new family, or new person at a church if they just took the effort to reach out and say, "Hey, I’d like to get to know you."

Speaker 2

Pastor Mike, maybe you can also talk about how we can get involved by serving in ministry and getting involved in those kinds of things, Right?

Speaker 4

And once you get connected socially, that's not the end. You have to get involved in ministry. We were just talking about this a little while ago, you and I, Jay, about the issue of being involved in ministry. Every part of the body has to be involved in doing its part. So you have to have a ministry post. We like to say it here at our church that you need to be a highly committed participant, and you need to have a ministry post of some kind. I think everyone needs to find that.

At our church, we do what we can to try and put out what we call a ministry fair, where we have tables and people in every ministry in our church kind of explain what they do and show opportunities as to how you can get involved in those ministries. Whether it's the hospitality ministry, the youth ministry, or the evangelism ministry, whatever it is, we want people to know there are ways to get involved.

Now, if your church doesn't do that or it hasn't done it in a long time and you're there, look through the bulletin, look on the website, and check out what the church is doing and the things that you gravitate toward. Just call the church up, call the leader of that ministry up, and say, "Can I help? Is there something I can do to help?" Pick things that you have a passion for in the church. Often, I find it's the things that people can even feel a little critical about; they think it could be done better.

Think of a family that came to our church and thought, "I think your hospitality and how you deal with visitors could be better." I thought, okay, well, we had a fully developed ministry for that. But this person had a kind of a critical eye toward that in a constructive way and brought some great ideas to enhance the way we do that first connection with visitors at our church. So it may be something you think, "I wish the church did this a little better than it does." That may be the ministry for you if you come with the right attitude, with a constructive and enthusiastic willingness to help that ministry be better.

Or maybe it's just an area of the church you've always tended to gravitate toward. Find that leader and seek to get involved. Call the pastor and see what you can do to plug in and be open because God may direct you to a part of that ministry that you haven't been involved in in the past.

I just love the guys that come forward and say, "I'll just be helpful wherever you need me." A guy just about a month ago talked to me in our church. He didn't know where to get involved. He's coming, he's there, he's excited about the church, and he said, "Well, I'll just serve anywhere." The first thing he got confronted with in terms of a need in our church was our prayer ministry. I was just talking with him recently about how fulfilling it's been for him to be a part of our caring ministry, focusing on intercessory prayer for people in our church that need it. He had never done that before and loves it.

Those are the kinds of things where if you're just willing to be used and you look for opportunities in the church, sometimes you'll find a great new area to serve the Lord in that you've never even thought of before. You'll find it's tremendously gratifying, and you'll see that you'll be very useful, and God will use you to do great things in your church through that ministry.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Pastor Mike. I trust this has been a very practical discussion and helpful discussion for our listeners and we're going to complete our time today with a message you gave called what you can do for the church.

Speaker 3

Well, I encountered a story this week that made me laugh out loud. It was about a young lady who was writing out her expectations for her future husband. She said, "I want a man to provide me with a sense of belonging, with an identity, with a continuity, with mystery, with transcendence, with comfort, with security, with novelty, with familiarity, with predictability, with surprise." When asked what she planned to provide for her future husband, she said, "I don't know. I really haven't given it much thought."

Well, preparing for a marriage like that in that way will certainly lead, I suppose, to a very lopsided relationship. It is very self-centered to think only about what I expect from my future husband while not considering what I would provide in this relationship. I find that a lot of Christians go about looking for a church in a similar way. Having expectations for your church is a reasonable thing, of course, much like your daughter. You don’t just take any man as your husband, and you don’t go to any church. You’ve got to have some criteria. I understand that, but I find that most Christians don’t give much thought to how they’re planning to provide for their church. They just haven’t thought about it.

Because of that arrangement, that lopsided sense of expectation and preparation, you find that a lot of people aren’t very happy in their church experience. Those expectations aren’t met, and they’re really not thinking about what they’re bringing to this relationship. They become chronic church hoppers. It is important when you think about your church to consider what they are planning and committed to providing for you in your life.

This week, I want to turn the tables. There are three things that I think every Christian should biblically plan to reasonably bring as a commitment to say, "Here’s what I’m providing for my church, and here’s what I’m committed to doing." These are basic things, and I’ll just give you three. I suppose we could find 30, but let’s just start with three. What is a reasonable expectation of an individual Christian committed to giving to their church?

In Acts chapter 14, Paul, in his missionary journeys, is doing a lot to establish churches. He’s preaching the gospel in a city and making disciples. He goes back to visit other churches that he’s established in Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch. He’s strengthening the souls of the disciples and encouraging them to continue in the faith. He’s even warning them about the struggles of the Christian life: "Through many tribulations, we must enter the kingdom of God."

Now, here’s the verse I want us to focus on, verse 23. "And when they had appointed elders for them," which is synonymous in the New Testament with pastors, "with prayer and fasting, they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed." So, we have a church committed to the Lord, trusting Him for salvation. Now, what do they do? They pray with fasting. We need the Lord to be actively involved. As it says in John 15, "You cannot bear fruit as a branch unless you’re abiding in the vine." We need that connection with God.

So, let’s put it this way: If we’re going to ask the question, "What can you do?" we should put this down: Number one, we need to persistently pray for your church. I mean, we’ve got to do that. That’s fundamental. I didn’t even add the word fasting, but we ought to pray so ardently that we’re even willing to miss a few meals to say, "God, I need to intercede for my church that I go to. I am committed to praying for it." Pray for it every single day.

In 1 Peter, chapter 1, verses 14 through 16, when it comes to the church, the ecclesia translates to "church." Ecclesia is a compound word. "Ek" means out of, and "klesia" comes from the verb "kaleo," which means to call, to call out of. That’s the idea: it’s a group of people called out from the rest. We’re not like the others. God has changed us, and He expects us to change our behavior.

Now, look at verse 14. Peter exhorts the church, "You’re children of God now. Do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance." I had certain desires in my life, and I went about doing whatever I wanted to do, at least within reason. Whatever I could get away with, I just went about doing what I wanted. Well, don’t act like that anymore.

Verse 15: "But instead, as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all of your conduct." The first thing you need to be praying for our church is that we would be, two words, more pure. Our behavior should look more godly, more Christ-like. Because, you know what? Really, can we do as a church what God has called us to do if we’re a bunch of obvious rank hypocrites? No, of course not. We can’t uphold a message about a holy God if we ourselves are completely unholy.

We should be reflecting, as Paul said, an increasing kind of righteousness and reflecting the holiness and glory of Christ, becoming more like Christ. Pray for that. Pray for more purity. There’s so much we could learn about how Jesus prays for the church in John 17. But here’s something very, very important.

In John 17, verse 14, as His earthly ministry is almost completed, He says in verse 14, as He prays to the Father, "I have given them your word." I’ve been the source of revelation. I’ve reiterated written revelation. "And the world has hated them because they are not of the world." That kind of echoes the first point: we’re not like the rest of the world, and so they don’t like us. Just as I’m not of the world, they’re about to crucify me. They don’t like me, and they’re not going to like them. Their life is a rebuke to a non-believing, unrighteous world.

So, I know the world’s going to hate them. "And I don’t ask that you take them out of the world because I want you to be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the ends of the earth." We’ve got a job to do. I’ve got to leave them there. I’m not saying that you take them out of the world because they’ve got a job to do. That’s the implication, certainly going to be spelled out in the book of Acts.

"But that you keep them from the evil one." That’s something Jesus prayed for us, and that’s something we should be praying for our church. I put it this way: two words, more protection. Protect us from the schemes of the enemy in this church. This is a spiritual battle that we’re fighting. We don’t struggle against flesh and blood. Sometimes it erupts on the surface of the temporal and human relationships, but the real battle is a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. He wants to take us out. I need to be praying for spiritual protection for this church, and so do you.

That’s a great place to start if you would persistently pray. There’s another "P." See what I did there? Persistently pray. And this, let’s just say it unabashedly: more people. What do we need to pray for? More people. There they go about numbers. They’re about numbers. I hate church about numbers. Very unspiritual to pray for numbers. The most spiritual thing you can pray about is why? The reason I’m interested in more people, and you call that numbers, well, it says it right there: added to their numbers. God’s into adding numbers.

Why? Because every number represents a person, and every person has a spirit or a soul. God is interested in saving people’s souls. So, I think it’s a good thing for us to care about adding to their numbers day by day. Nothing more spiritual than that is to see people’s souls saved.

That brings me to the second point in Luke chapter 10. Take a look at this, if you would. Jesus says, "The harvest is plentiful." This is Luke 10:2. "But the laborers are few. Therefore, pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest." Now, here’s a metaphor: there’s a harvest. What is that all about? Well, I guess you’ve got to look at verse one to catch what He’s dealing with.

"After this, the Lord appointed 72 others and sent them ahead of Him two by two into every town and place where He Himself was about to go." So, Jesus is going to show up, and before He gets there, He’s sending out people in pairs so that they’ll talk to people about Christ, so that their hearts and their lives will be ready when Christ shows up to embrace Christ and say, "I’m going to follow you."

So, He’s sending them out to prepare people for the coming of Christ. We’re just preparing people for the meeting of God. That’s all we’re doing. Christ is going to show up either at the day of their death or the day He comes back, and we want their hearts to be ready. Then we look at the verse, verse 2: "The harvest is plentiful." There are a lot of villages, a lot of towns, a lot of people out there. But the laborers? Well, I’ve got 72 here. They’re few. We really don’t even have enough people to reach the people because there are a lot of people.

So, in this particular passage, Jesus says, "You know what you ought to be praying for? You ought to be praying that the Lord will send out laborers into the harvest." We need people to go out into the harvest and pull people in.

Number two, let’s put it this way: we need to boldly extend the reach of your church. One thing you should reasonably expect as a commitment that you make as you bring to the relationship of your life to the church is, "I am going to be actively involved in some way of extending the reach of the church." You need to say, "Okay, I’m going to pray for the church, and I’m going to see what I can do as an active participant in the church to see if I can bring people into the fold, into the harvest."

How serious did Christ make this in His ministry? He told a story about people meeting Christ when He comes. "The Son of Man is going to come in His glory, and on that day, He’s going to gather the people before Him, and He’s going to separate the people before Him like a shepherd separates sheep from the goats." The idea of the flock, the church: sheep. I’d like there to be a lot of sheep. I’d like not many people I know to be goats. I’d like to have some of those goats become sheep.

Well, at the end of time, when Christ returns or when people die, listen, we’ve got to get the message out. I need to have you be someone who goes out there frequently into the harvest field saying, "Hey, I know you’re not a Christian or you haven’t been in church in a while, but just come and see what’s going on here." They may come, they may say, "This is crazy," and they leave. Fine. You’re trying to do what you can do to pluck people from that harvest field and bring them in so that they can be sheep in the flock, in the fold.

Because you know what He says next? The sheep? He’s going to say, "Enter into your inheritance prepared for you from the foundation of the world." And He’ll say to the goats, about five verses later, "Depart from me." We’ve got to start caring and have eyes for the harvest. As He says in John 4, "Lifting up my eyes, seeing the fields are white for harvest," and getting involved.

The lowest bar is just inviting them to church. Some of them may never respond to come to a church, but you bring the church to them. You bring Christ to them. Get the message of the gospel to someone to say, "Here’s who God is, here’s our problem with sin, here’s how Christ solved it, here’s the response of repentance and faith, here’s how the resurrection affirms that."

Listen, what are you going to do with Christ? There’s the 15-second version of the Gospel, but you need some kind of commitment to say, "I’m going to be involved in this." Some of you know I got on a plane on Monday morning and went to Guatemala City because we planted a church. On April 5, 2015, it was the one-year anniversary. We had a big celebration, ate a lot of Guatemalan food, and we had a feast. Then we feasted on the word. Through a translator, I was able to preach and to get Pastor Amedeo, who we vetted and had here, hired, and put this church together.

We celebrated the good things that God is doing down there. I thought to myself, as he said things about you, how proud I was of you guys giving financially so that we could hire this pastor, we could set up this church, we could pay rent, we could pay for materials, and we could have that church expanding the ministry of the Gospel in a place you and I will rarely, if ever, be at. Here they are preaching, bringing Bibles, and giving them to people, saying, "You need to repent of your sins and put your trust in Christ."

It was so encouraging. I thought to myself, "That’s how we’re expanding the gospel." We’ve done that in Amman, Jordan. We’re doing that in various places around the world because this church, through your provision, through God’s providing, through you, we’re seeing the kingdom expand. Think about that. Just like you’re committed to praying for our church, we want to do the same thing, always working to plant new churches.

So, I want you to spend some time praying for purity, protection, and more people. God, we know as we light a new lampstand, as you put it in the Book of Revelation, we want to see that lampstand burn brightly until Christ returns. We want you to come back soon, but if you tarry, we want this church to burn brightly, doctrinally sound, until...

Speaker 4

The day of your coming.

Speaker 3

So make that a reality for us. May it just spill over into individual prayers in many, many homes and in many, many lives, as Paul did in that passage in Acts 14 in Jesus name, Amen.

Speaker 1

Purity, protection, and to reach more people—three ways we can pray for our church. That's Pastor Mike Fabarez on Focal Point with the message he calls "What You Can Do for the Church." Find the complete version of this sermon online at focal.radio.org. Ask not what your church can do for you, but what you can do for your church.

Today's message addressed how to deal with dissatisfaction with your place of worship. Rather than bouncing from church to church feeling bored or disconnected, Pastor Mike encouraged us to double up our personal effort investing in people and ministries. Before we make a jump, think about your care, ministry, hospitality, or intercessory prayer efforts. A small gesture means so much, especially during hospital stints or to comfort those in their final days. When you connect with others in need within your own church, you'll quickly find your place in the family of God.

And if you don't know where to begin, I want to invite you to request Pastor Mike's brand new book. It's called "10 Mistakes People Make About Heaven, Hell, and the Afterlife." This book, hot off the press, is going to give you insight into what to say or where to turn when someone you know is facing death. Imagine the comfort you'd bring to those in hospice care or those getting up in years to share. There's an exciting afterlife that awaits them and what the Bible says about the future.

The book "10 Mistakes People Make" is yours when you give a financial gift today. Call 88320 or give online at focalpointradio.org and know that you're already making a critical difference when you give to Focal Point. Through your generosity, we can deliver Pastor Mike's compelling expositional teaching by Internet, podcast app, and over 800 radio stations nationwide. Thank you for investing so others are served.

Well, I'm Dave Drouy, or Pastor Mike Fabarez. Enjoy worshiping with your church family this weekend and join us again next time for another hard-hitting lesson from Luke Monday on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.

Speaker 2

Sam.