Ask Pastor Mike Live

Speaker 1

Well, today on Focal Point, step into the pastor's study for a one-on-one conversation with Mike Fabarez. Today's topic is how Christians should respond to Islam.

Welcome to this week's edition of Ask Pastor Mike. I'm Dave Drouehe, welcoming you to Focal Point. You know, every week we have an opportunity to talk one-on-one with Mike Fabarez, to pull up a chair and ask him some tough questions about life, about faith, and the issues we face.

If you have a question you'd like to ask Pastor Mike, I'll let you know how you can do that right after our conversation. But first, let's join executive director Jay Whirton inside the pastor's study for this week's edition of Ask Pastor Mike.

Speaker 2

Pastor Mike, this first question is on Islam.

And there's so much in the news today about ISIS and what's going on in the Middle East, and it's engendering a lot of fear in the Christian community and an uncertainty about what to do.

How would you counsel Christians today about what's going on?

Speaker 3

Well, the Bible is very clear, Jay, that we fear no one here on earth. Jesus said it. We don't fear the one who can kill the body but can't get to our soul. We fear the one who can kill the body and cast our soul into hell. And that's the one we should be concerned about.

And if we made peace with him, then he's our ally and he is one that we are accepted and embraced by with mercy and his grace. So we don't have to fear this, although it's very concerning and we ought to be ready to respond accordingly.

Speaker 2

Okay. Well, we don't fear them, but what is our response to what's happening in the Middle east and here in the United States?

Speaker 3

Well, yeah, first of all, we need to pray. The Bible is very clear about that. We are concerned about our brothers and sisters on the other side of the world that are being persecuted because of their allegiance to Christ.

We need to step up our missions and our evangelism. I mean, when you look at Islam as a theology and you recognize that it's all works based, that there's no payment for sin, that there's no atonement, that there's no mechanism for the holy God that they claim to serve and submit to, which is what Islam means, submission to God. They have no way to be right with this God.

The gospel provides us the answer that Jesus Christ is the payment for sin. We trust in him, we can be forgiven. And that message needs to be sent out to Muslims worldwide. It needs to be sent out in passionate and clear, articulate, intelligent ways.

And it needs to happen not only here in America, where we see the mosques being built in every city. It needs to be done overseas. And we need to make sure that we're investing in Christian missions around the world.

Speaker 2

You mentioned mosques being built in cities here. It seems like our governments are giving Muslims a much easier pass on being able to do these things. Like, in the name of not wanting to discriminate. Are we overdoing our position in this?

Speaker 3

Well, we. I don't make those decisions. Yeah. I think the preferential treatment can only be explained as a spiritual battle in our country. Right. Why is it that, you know, if you do something in the name of Christ, you're going to have all kinds of backlash from city councils and governments and all kinds of things? Our culture.

But things can advance in terms of other religious systems with not just the past, but with preference. So there's a spiritual battle in our world. We need to remember that. And the more you study your Bible, the more you see that spiritual battle.

We need to recognize what we're up against, that there is a God of this world that loves to advance artificial substitute religions in the place of the truth of Christ. So we need to expect that. And it's been going on for all time. The truth is going to always be in our culture, our fallen world. It's going to be opposed. And so we.

Speaker 2

Pastor Mike, should we be seeing the rise of Islam in the Middle east and here in the US as some sort of judgment by God on our country and. Or Christians?

Speaker 3

Well, yeah. I mean, I don't have a red phone to God to know that I can speculate. All I can say is that when there's a vacuum of theology, in other words, when you want to drive Christianity out of the marketplace, when we think it's not freedom of religion, but freedom from religion, particularly Christian religion in America, well, then the void is going to be filled.

We are by nature religious creatures. God has made us to grope and seek for him. And if you're not gonna let the truth prevail in our country through the testimony of the church, then, yeah, you're gonna have certainly a lot of substitutions to truth, a lot of religious systems that are going to thrive in that environment.

So in a sense, I guess you could say, generally it's, you know, a judgment. If you want to block out the truth, that void is going to be filled with something else.

Speaker 2

If violence comes to our doorstep, From Islam, what would our response be at that point? Do we defend ourselves? Do we lay down what' response as Christians?

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, you know, if you mean personally, I think God does give us that biblical right, if you will, to defend ourselves personally. That's why Jesus, at the end of his ministry, after telling him not to take knapsacks and extra money and extra sandals and swords, then at the end of his ministry, he said, okay, I did that to prove something to you, that if your back's against the wall, then I'm going to provide. But now, at the end of his ministry, as he leaves his disciples, he says, now if you don't have a sword, you better get one. Well, what was that for? That was clearly for self-defense.

And, you know, same with excess money and a knapsack and all the things that they needed to do their ministry. So we prepare as pragmatists, always trusting in the Lord. Like David says, we don't trust in chariots or horses, but if you're a nation, you better have some chariots and horses. In our day, we better have an army and an air force and marines. That's important. And personally, you know, God does give us the right to defend ourselves. Now, people can take that too far, but that is the biblical position in my view.

I think we need to understand the allowances that God gives us in that respect. And it relates to the country. All we can do is vote, and all we can do is pray and be informed and do our best to, as the Bible says, pray for those in authority and leadership, the kings, as it says in that Roman context in the first century. We need to be praying for our Congress and our senators and our presidents, and we need to pray that we can have the right response to those that do want to do us harm in our country.

Speaker 2

And certainly this could come to a place where the US is involved in.

Speaker 3

A war against Islam, militant Islam. Well, it could be, yeah. And if that's the case, then that's going to be part of the history of this country, if that's what happens. But, and we don't have a crystal ball, we don't know what's going to happen. Who knows, God may send great revival in the church and we may be able to see the truth prevail.

This has been cyclical. Obviously, the theology of Islam and the theology of Christianity are at odds with one another. The coexist bumper stickers, Jay, they don't work in terms of theology. And we can't say that Islam is correct and Christianity is correct. And that's, you know, we've seen the cycle go back and forth throughout history.

Sometimes Christianity has thrived and been the dominant force, and sometimes in certain parts of the world, Islam has been the dominant force. So we obviously want God to send revival to the church. We want Christians to get serious about standing up for the truth, being much more evangelistic, much more forthright about what the need is for every human heart.

Every Muslim, every Hindu, every Buddhist, everybody on the planet needs to put their trust in Christ. It's the only mechanism for sinful people to be right before a holy God.

Speaker 2

You mentioned that coexist sticker, and I often say the sea and that coexist will never exist with anything else past it on there.

So how do we change our thinking in that regard to understand that a little better as Christians and as citizens of the world?

Speaker 3

Right. Well, Christianity has always understood what pluralism means and tolerance means is that we're not converting people by the sword or by, you know, the barrel of a gun. The free exchange of ideas, the debate that allows us to be kindly and respectful to one another—that's what Christian tolerance is all about.

In that sense, we can coexist, you know, if everyone at the table is willing to play by those rules. We're not talking about converting people by force and telling people that they have to convert.

Speaker 4

So.

Speaker 3

But in terms of coexisting logically or philosophically, theologically, and if you've got some at the table that say we don't want to coexist with you, our goal is to stamp out your theology and to do that by any means necessary, which, of course, in some factions of Islam, that means that we're willing to wage jihad against you.

And if that's the case, then you're going to have a problem seeing these groups coexist. And that's a lot of what's happening in certain parts of the world that we see on the news every day.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Pastor Mike. I know this is a very timely topic. And we're going to conclude our conversation today by listening to a sermon you gave called Our Next War. Thinking biblically about battles and bombs.

Speaker 4

God is a God who loves peace, be assured of that. He loves peace not only between individuals, but he certainly is in favor of peace between nations and countries and kingdoms. He'd like to see it happen. As a matter of fact, if you were a good and informed Old Testament Jew, you would look forward to the day when God would establish a lasting peace. And it hasn't changed. It's the hope of the old covenant, and it's the hope of the new covenant.

In Isaiah, chapter two, we see the promise of what all of us have been taught if we know anything about the Bible. And that is that one day the kingdoms of the world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ. And he will reign forever and ever. There will be peace because the great king of kings, the great son of David, will be seated on a literal throne in a literal capital, in a literal palace, and he will be ruling the nations. That's the vision, that's the picture. It's nothing new. It's not just a New Testament hope. It was the Old Testament hope that one day, when God consumes the ages, when the consummation of the ages arrives, God will set up his kingdom, the Messiah will sit enthroned in Jerusalem, and there will be peace among nations. No longer any reason to have swords, no standing armies. Here we have peace established and God himself, the God man seated on the throne, reigning and ruling over the nations.

What may surprise you, though, is that this kind of peace is established on the heels of war, the war of Armageddon. God will utilize war to establish peace. And that's not just the perfect future prophetic plan of God; it is something that has been replicated throughout history from the beginning. Let us consider a few of these examples from Scripture. We don't have the time to turn there, but at least jot down Deuteronomy, chapter 12, verses 28 through 31, which helps to summarize the whole purpose and cause of the conquest of Joshua. Why did God put a sword in his hand and say, "Go in there and kill these people"? What's wrong? Why would God demand that kind of thing?

The same thing in the eschatological sense of something that's going to take place we see happening in a lesser sense in the land of Canaan. There was injustice. There were people that were not obeying any form of ethics or standards that would produce peace and rights of people. The widows were oppressed. The fatherless were ignored. There was such sin and iniquity in Canaan that the Bible says in Deuteronomy 12, they were casting their newborn children into the fire as acts of worship to their idols. And God said, "Enough, enough. We're going to go in and wage war against the inhabitants of Canaan, and you're going to go in there and establish a place where righteousness dwells and where peace is established."

Would it last? No, it never lasts until the Messiah is enthroned. But it was a temporary solution to some really gross and extreme wickedness in the land. God utilizes war to restrain evil, to establish justice, and to set up a period of peace. The cycle continues over and over, and that's how warfare works, at least from a biblical perspective. Be assured that God loves peace. But also note in your understanding of war how God utilized it through Scripture and how he will utilize it again in the coming of the future kingdom.

Now you may say, "Well, that's fantastic. I mean, okay, I'll settle for the Messiah as long as it's Jesus calling for war. Or maybe, okay, fine, an angel, but someone, not just the warts and wrinkles variety of political human leaders." That doesn't seem to make sense. I have a little problem following a human leader, a sinful leader, into war. It doesn't seem to make sense. And yet we need to understand from a biblical perspective the whole role of government.

So let's try and get an overview. We want to see it distinguished, for instance, from the church. The church is not the government. It's a different entity and it has different responsibilities and it's sanctioned with different powers. And then, of course, in Scripture, if we look at Scripture, we see that the individual is also addressed. Now, just that distinction right there is the key to understanding a lot of things that the people on CNN and Fox News just don't understand.

Before you start listening to people quoting biblical passages as it relates to the commentary about war or warfare or bombs or battles, we need to understand, now wait a minute, who are we talking about? If we're looking at a passage of Scripture that is talking to government, that's one thing. If we're looking at a passage of Scripture that's talking about the church, that's another thing. If we're looking at passages of Scripture that talk about the individuals, that's a whole other thing. So we need to make those distinctions.

Let's first of all understand, as it relates to evil and our role, how it relates to the individual. Turn with me, if you would, to Romans, chapter 12. Take a look at this text with me. That's very clear about the responsibility we have. We'll start at the bottom here. The responsibility of individuals.

Speaker 3

Look at verse 17.

Speaker 4

Here's a directive, verse 17. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Sound familiar? Oh, I've heard that. Turn the other cheek. Jesus said, love your enemies. As a matter of fact, be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you as an individual. Directives here. Live at peace with everyone. Be a peacemaker.

Verse 19. Do not take revenge, my friend, but leave room for God's wrath. For as it's written, it is mine to avenge. I will repay, says the Lord. On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, then what? Offer him a taco. Feed him. If he's thirsty, give him a Pepsi. Give him something to drink. In so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head, whatever that means. Old ancient promise. Get the tape. We've talked about it before.

Verse 21. The bottom line is this, though. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. See? Individual. Here's the directive. Refrain from evil. That's the directive. Someone comes and does something to you that is evil; don't respond in kind. You come over, steal my car stereo. I am not to go to your house and throw rocks through the window, see? Don't do it individually. As a Christian, do your best to refrain from evil. Do things that are good. See? No retribution, no retaliation. It's not yours to inflict justice. You just keep doing good. Refrain from evil.

Okay, how about the Church? Keep your finger in this passage, please, and turn with me to Second Corinthians, chapter 10. Two Corinthians, chapter 10. Let's talk about the Church. What is the Church's role? Is that the Church's role? We just simply say, hey, we're just going to refrain from evil? No, we've got a greater responsibility in this. Look at verse three. He's talking about the Church. Now, for though we, we as Christians, the Church, we live in the world, we the Church, we don't wage war as the world does. Okay, we have a whole different perspective here, a whole different way to do it.

Verse 4. The weapons we fight with, that the Church fights with, are not the weapons of the world. See, we don't take swords and daggers and guns and take them out backside of the church. And this guy's not very righteous. Great, you shoot him. No, I'm going to knife him. Okay, great. No, we don't. That's not how it works in the Church. On the contrary, the weapons we have, oh, they're not that. They're less powerful than swords and daggers. No. Matter of fact, they're divinely powerful for the demolishing of strongholds. They're very powerful. Matter of fact, they transform lives. They change hearts.

Well, what are we talking about? What's the realm we're dealing with? Verse 5. We demolish arguments, we demolish things like pretensions that set themselves up against the knowledge. That's information, the knowledge of God, an ideology, a false theology, a false philosophy, if it raises itself up against the truth. See, the defenders of the truth are to go and to make an argument, to make a presentation, to make a defense. We are to, with truth, do something that will demolish strongholds. We are, as a church, to restrain evil, restrain it with the truth.

See, the gospel transforms lives. The preaching of the truth in society becomes salt and light as people go out and represent the truth and understand the truth. See, individuals, we refrain from evil. The church, we are in war. And war against what? War against ideologies, wars against theologies, wars against philosophies that we say, no, we got to set that straight. And so we fight. Oh, not like the world, not like the government, not like the people with those weapons. We have a different agenda.

Okay, you got your finger in Romans 12. Turn back to Romans 12 now. Now, what then is the role of government as it relates to evil? Now, remember the context. We just read Romans 12, did we not? And what did it say? Refrain from evil. Someone does wrong to you. Hey, don't repay them with wrong. You just be good to them. See? Great, terrific. What's the government's role? Is it any different?

Romans 13, verse 1. The directive for individuals is to submit himself, it says, or herself to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except that which is from God or that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted. And those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Oh, yeah, I know it's God's to repay. This will be some future eschatological judgment, right? No, keep reading. Verse 3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and he'll commend you for it. Verse 4. He is a servant of God. It says to do you good, but if you do wrong, hey, be afraid, for he does not underline this. Bear the sword for nothing. Underline this phrase. He is God's servant. To do what? An agent of wrath. To do what? To bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Now, wait a minute. You just told me not to repay evil for evil. Do you see how this helps? To clarify. Oh, you're absolutely right. We don't repay evil for evil as individuals. But God has set up the church to fight evil, to restrain evil with the truth. And he set up the government to do what? To avenge evil with the sword. Look at the verbs. They change. I refrain from evil. As a personal Christian, I try to. As a church, I try to restrain evil with the truth. And then you know what? I understand that the government has a role in this. And I submit to them. They don't bear the sword for nothing. They're a servant of God, an agent of God's wrath. To do what? To punish the wrongdoer. Their job is to avenge evil, to avenge evil with the sword. Individuals refrain from it. Church restrain it. Human government avenge it. That's how it works.

Now, I think this is very important and perhaps will also help to clarify the whole debate and discussion. We need to be careful too, as individuals and as the church, not to despise the role of the government. Now what we've just learned is it has on its hip a sword. And that sword has been given to it so that it can avenge wrong. In our day, the guy with the gun or the groups with tanks and bombs and missiles, well, let's not despise it.

Here's a few reasons, a few sub points. Number one, we need to not despise it because God doesn't despise it. Let's think of it this way, logically. God set it up. This was his idea. It was his plan to set up Romans with big muscles and breastplates and helmets, with swords on their hip that were used not to have Johnny pull his pants down so that he can paddle his fanny. They were used to cut off hands and arms and feet and heads. That's what swords were for, see? To avenge wrong, to instill fear in wrongdoers, and to hopefully somehow establish justice in society. That's government's role. So what do I do? I say, hey, I'm not going to despise it.

Now note this about the Old Testament. Here's the key. Ready? No charge. Ready? Here comes. The Old Testament is written to, for, and about a nation, a government. What is the government supposed to do? Avenge evil. See? So there should be a lot of instruction in that Old Testament for not only national policy of warfare, things like in scripture, here's what you do to make a treaty of peace. Here's what you do when you wage war. Here's what you don't do in war. And then you should also hear a lot of civil instructions for justice, instructions for judges, instructions for people who make laws. You would see things about if they do this, then do this. And this is a just penalty for that. So you're going to find in the Old Testament a lot more of that. Why? Because God has changed? No, because the Old Testament was written to, for, and about a government, a nation.

See, then what happens? New Testament, it's not written to a nation, not written to a government. It's written to individuals who make up the church. Individuals that make up the church aren't called to avenge evil. No. What are we called to do? Refrain from evil and restrain it with the truth. Government has its role avenging wrong. Church has its role restraining evil. We have individuals. All of you, please refrain from evil. We have God giving those instructions out. But remember this, God set it up. The whole Old Testament is God's laying out of a plan for government, for justice domestically, for justice internationally. And it's all there. Old Testament, a lot of instructions for warfare. New Testament, not a lot of instructions about it. More instructions about knowledge and truth and more instruction about refraining from evil.

Well, that makes sense. Not because God has changed, but because in Scripture, the audience has changed. Very important distinction, though. War is not good, though war is painful, though nobody likes it. And we long for the coming of Christ's kingdom when all of our weapons can be laid aside. For now, Christians will always be faced with having to either support wars or not support wars that we think and are convinced have some positive effect at restraining evil, promoting justice, and avenging wrong. Because we understand the role of government in this world.

Let's pray. God help us. We don't like it. We certainly long for the coming day when Christ reigns and we can take all of our weapons of war and all of our standing armies and just totally dismiss them. But right now, we don't live in that age. Right now we live in an age where government still has a role to play. They're to instill fear in wrongdoers. They're to have a sword for a reason. And occasionally that sword is pulled from the scabbard and it is used in warfare. God, if it's a just cause, may Christians not be ashamed or embarrassed to stand behind those who say we are going to restrain evil, promote justice, and hopefully ensue and ensure as best we can, as temporal, fallen people, some kind of period of peace.

So, God, I pray that you give us courage, fortitude, clarity of thinking as we go through these issues in our own mind and through scripture. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Speaker 1

As Christians, our primary response to all threats should be to pray faithfully and fear God above all else. You're listening to Focal Point Radio. Today's lesson from Mike Fabarez is titled "Thinking Biblically About Battles and Bombs." If you'd like to hear this talk again, you can hear it online at focalpointradio.org, where you can also pose your own question for Pastor Mike, and it may be used on a future episode of Ask Pastor Mike.

Well, just as we're called to live out our faith during the times we live in, we also have a responsibility to prepare our children for the future. It's with that future generation in mind that we picked out this month's resource. It's a book called "Big Truths for Young Hearts." This educational tool presents the deep foundational truths of Scripture in a way that children can understand, including the Trinity, pain and suffering, Jesus as king, and what it means to be saved.

You're invited to request a copy of "Big Truths for Young Hearts" when you give a donation of any amount to Focal Point today. Call 888-320-5885 right now or give online at focalpointradio.org. You know, children love to learn new things, and this book is designed to help parents teach their children basic Christian theology in an easy and effective way. Bruce Ware's own daughters wrote the foreword to the book, describing him as a tender father, loving husband, and faithful provider—just the right person to produce a theology book for children.

Request a copy of "Big Truths for Young Hearts" for your own child or grandchild, or even for a friend. It's yours when you give a gift of any amount to support Focal Point Ministries. Give a donation online at focalpointradio.org or call us at 888-320-5885. Thanks for remembering that Focal Point is made possible by the generous gifts of listeners just like you. We're careful to use every donation wisely to reach as many people as we can in your community and all across the U.S.

I'm Dave Droueh for Mike Fabarez, encouraging you to worship with your church family this weekend and tune in Monday when our series "Staying In Step" continues right here on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.

Speaker 2

Sam.