Ask Pastor Mike Live

Speaker 1

Well, today on Focal Point, we're taking a break from our weekly Q and A format to continue our focus on parenting issues. If you've got young ones at home, you're going to want to stay tuned for this edition of Ask Pastor Mike.

And welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host, Dave Drouy. And we've got a special treat for you today. For the second week in a row, Carlyn Fabarez joins her husband Pastor Mike to give a mom's perspective on raising children and in particular, sons.

Today we're touching on the issue of overprotection, as you teach tenacity, responsibility, and even money management. These are hot topics that affect every family.

So without further ado, let's join executive director Jay Worton inside the pastor's study for today's Ask Pastor Mike.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Dave. I am here with Pastor Mike and again with Car Lynn, and we are talking about raising men, not boys. Last week, we talked a little bit about a godly family and an intact family and how the kids relate to the parents.

Pastor Mike, this week I want to talk a little bit about something you write about in terms of work and sweating, a manly work ethic, and money. But I want to start maybe at a higher level, a 20,000-foot view, talking maybe about helicopter parents and what that does to kids.

Speaker 3

Ye right. No, for sure. We definitely have a tendency in our day to bubble wrap our kids. I think part of this is the 24-hour news cycle that we have. You can turn on the news and see every bad thing that's happened not only in your state but in the country and around the world, and it's just constantly bombarding us that the world's a dangerous, scary place.

It's always been dangerous and scary, but right now it's so paralyzing for parents that they won't let the kids go play at the park. I know parents, Carlin, you can attest to this. They don't want their kids playing in the backyard. Too dangerous in the yard. I mean, this has gotten ridiculous.

And I think what we need to do is recognize that your kids are going to get bumped, they're going to get bruised, they're going to go to the ER, they're going to have broken bones. Boys in particular, if you try to prevent that by bubble wrapping your kids, by being a helicopter parent, you are really going to stifle the God-given, rambunctious, masculine, aggressive, risk-taking personality that God has built into most little boys who want to become productive men for the glory of God. They need to have some room to get bumped and bruised.

Speaker 4

Yeah. And there's lessons to be learned from getting bumped and bruised.

How are you going to respond when you get knocked over? How are you going to stand up?

You learn skills, you learn strength, you learn patience, you learn perseverance that you can't learn any other way.

Speaker 2

What are some of the worst things that happened to your boys growing up? Like broken bones or cuts or accidents? What's one thing that sticks out?

Speaker 4

We've had some. I can remember one who didn't walk anywhere he went. He just bounced off the walls like Tigger.

One of his favorite things to do was to almost do a little cartwheel over the end of the bed. He would just put his hands down on the bed and kind of do a cartwheel.

At one point, he dislocated his elbow doing that, and it just boop, popped out. He was a young boy and got to the ER and off to...

Speaker 3

The ER we went.

Speaker 4

The interesting thing was, I remember he went with his dad and his grandpa happened to be in town. The two of them took him to the ER late one Saturday night after dad got done preaching, of course, is when this happens. And he fell asleep in his grandpa's arms.

When he woke up, his elbow had relaxed and gone back into the proper alignment just like that. And you know, I think that kid was the one who I could not bubble wrap him. It's just the way his makeup was.

And yet, look, something happened and it ended up being alright. It wasn't worth me freaking out over and saying, "Don't ever do that little bounce over the bed again. You might dislocate your elbow."

Speaker 3

Right? Or his brother. The day I remember, we were out on a date night and he was with grandma and we come home and he's mashed out his front teeth. He just tripped over something, I don't know, running through the front of the house.

Speaker 4

And these were baby teeth, but it.

Speaker 3

Was really early and it smashed his front teeth out. You know, that's one of the things parents are so afraid of, those things happening. They're going to happen. He had a loving grandmother that was there watching him. But, you know, they run from place to place, they bounce over the edge of the furniture, they're going to dislocate an elbow, they're going to break a few teeth.

I mean, these are things that sound horrific to parents listening to me right now that are so indoctrinated by our culture that we have to bubble wrap our kids. But you know, our kids are fine and they've been to the ER and they've fallen on skateboards and they've been hurt during little league games and it's just going to happen.

And what we need to recognize is that the way God teamed us up as male and female in the parenting role, speaking out of the intact home. If you have an intact home, you've got to understand mom is the one that when Junior goes down on his bike and skins his knees is going to, you know, kiss the boo boo and ask, "Are you okay?" and come and give you a hug.

And dad's gonna say, "Hey, you know, I don't see a bone sticking out, let's get back on that bike."

Speaker 4

Get, go do it again.

Speaker 3

And so if mom always wins those arguments, if she has veto power over every risky behavior, you're, you are a helicopter bubble wrapped parent and you may not even know it.

Mom's gotta. This is a real challenge for mom. I assume it's a challenge for you. I know you're, you know, you're a bit of a tomboy when you were a kid and probably were better than most, but I'm sure I pressed you.

I remember taking the kid out on a motorcycle, stuff like that. That was really hard for you, I'm sure. But I knew that we needed to push past some of the comfort levels of your own life.

Speaker 4

Oh yes, I vividly remember the day you brought home a skateboard ramp. And of course our kids had skateboards, but they had helmets. Yes, because we're 21st century parents.

But still there was a part of me that had to just take a deep breath and for the sake of God's honor and peace in my home, keep my mouth shut and let the chips fall, so to speak, and let the kids fall, let the boys fall and let the kids fall.

And even if they had, which they didn't, broken a bone doing the skateboard ramp, but even if they had, I would have been okay and they would have been okay.

And those trials, I mean, of course the Bible tells us all over that trials make us stronger. It makes us more dependent on God. And isn't that what you would want for your son, for him to go through trouble and be stronger because of it?

Speaker 3

I think about that first chapter in this book. Raising Men, Not Boys is about envisioning your kids' future every day. And if you can look at even a silly thing like a skateboard or riding on the back of the motorcycle with dad or whatever it might be, I got two kids now aspiring to be in ministry, teaching God's word.

I mean, they're going to be leading in churches, I trust, where they're going to need to take some risks. They're going to need to go down a ramp. That's scary. They're going to have to say, "It's going to be all right, we're going to be able to power through this."

And you don't want a kid that is so afraid of being hurt because it translates into adults that can't make hard decisions. I think, you know, it serves them well. God's made them to be risk takers.

Speaker 4

Nor do we want them to crumble at the first sign of trouble or criticism from someone or someone who doesn't like one of their decisions that they did the best they could with but was not well received.

We want them to be able to be steeled under that and go to the Lord with their trouble. Just like they did when it was that elbow that was dislocated so long ago.

Speaker 3

A lot of bumps and bruises you get in life. You know, whether your kids grow up to be architects or, you know, whatever they are, ours look like they're heading into pastoral ministry. And certainly I know that and you know that as a pastor's wife for years.

A lot of bumps and bruises and dislocated, you know, elbows and broken out teeth. You're going to get. They need to be ready for that. And I'm not saying you put your kids in ridiculously risky situations, but when a boy wants to get out there and be the boy that God created him to be, we need to be careful not to bubble wrap them.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we're not being irresponsible. We're letting him get out there and do the boy things.

Speaker 4

Running with knives and starting fires in the backyard. We weren't doing that.

Speaker 3

Don't let him do that.

Speaker 2

No, not all the time.

Speaker 4

No.

Speaker 3

No, not with our knowledge at least.

Speaker 2

Since we see a lot of boys with all of that pent up and rambunctiousness. How do things like sports and food and just times where they can have a release work into your family life? How did you work that out?

Speaker 4

Well, every day you had one bouncing.

Speaker 2

Off the walls and doing carnivals.

Speaker 4

I did. I had a tigger. Definitely a tigger at our house.

And basically, I mean, when they're little, especially when you have boys, but it's true for girls too, you need them to be able to be outside playing and doing physical activity every single day.

And we did that by taking them to the park or the backyard or the cul de sac, which we did. Let them play on the cul de sac. I mean, off the sidewalk.

Speaker 2

Outside the front of your house.

Speaker 4

I know. Outside the front of our house, we had no fence.

Speaker 3

Sometimes we actually had a street.

Speaker 4

It was crazy. I know. Wow. We were such risk takers as parents. But anyway, yes, they played on the cul de sac and they played on the street.

Speaker 3

Right. And I think some of the things in your child's life that they wanted, and we've been talking about that in this discussion, you know that you need to sometimes wince and let them take those risks. But even some risks they don't want to take, I think you need to encourage. I mean, there are things. Our kids were inclined to sports, so of course we didn't have to force them in that. But there were things we wanted them to do. We wanted to get on a stage and do the Christmas musical at church. We wanted them to pick up an instrument and at least do a year of playing an instrument. These are the kinds of things we said, we want you to step out of your comfort zone and do these things. You don't have to become a musician or an actor. You don't have to be an athlete. But we do want you to try these things and we're going to insist on them for a while.

But I do think the everyday things that you do include getting them involved with a limit. Right. And of course, we're churchmen, right? We want the church to be a priority so they're not in everything. Speaking of kids that were inclined to sports, they would have played every sport all year long, been in two, three different teams. But we wouldn't, we didn't allow that. I mean, we said one sport at a time and that's all we can handle. And they were gifted enough to be in the travel ball and in these special, you know, leagues and stuff. But we said, no, you can play Little League, you can play this basketball league, but church has got to be a priority.

And I think that's something we do deal with in the book. You've got to make a decision about not letting, whether it's gymnastics or acting or music or athletics, it can't take over your kid's life to the place where they don't have the church as a priority, because it's going to be. I don't care if they're converted or not. They're in a home, a Christian home. They're going to make the church a priority.

Speaker 4

Absolutely. And you have to pave the way with that, though, because if you're so busy that going to your small group is a major hassle for you, or if it's the first thing to be dumped from your schedule, of course your kids are going to learn that it's not that important to you or maybe to God in your mind. So definitely we didn't let them be too busy with the sports and the fun to make God's church a priority or serving in God's church a priority.

But yeah, there's a lot of things you can do to help your kids. I mean, even just making sure they have good food. And I don't mean we were like way over the top with good food, but, you know, reasonable and reasonable bedtime things like that will really help your sons to develop and to grow and to be able to do all that you want them to do in the church, at school, in your home.

Speaker 3

I appreciate that about Carlyn and raising our kids and having a real consistent concern about that. They get enough exercise, which is not calisthenics, but, you know, going out and sweating every day, getting decent meals. You know, did you eat something that grew out of the ground in this meal? Having a reasonable bedtime? Those were things that we weren't over the top about.

You know, I know parents can go crazy in any of these areas, but I do think that helped them develop what we want. And that is a godly work ethic, a way to work in this world, that their bodies are in sync with their spirit. In terms of being a diligent worker, we're anti-laziness. You know, we want you not just sitting around doing nothing.

Of course, there's times to relax and chill out. There's that Sabbath principle, right, of being refreshed. They need those off times. But we're always trying to make sure our kids are eating right, working right, sweating right, diligent in their homework, making sure they get their stuff done. I think that always pays off in the manly characteristics you want in an adult.

Speaker 2

Speaking of work and a good work ethic, in the book you write a sentence that your dad said to you, work is work, when you wanted to get a job. What did he mean by that? Maybe you can explain that a little bit.

Speaker 3

Well, it was good. And I remember him saying, and I was young and of course, at least in my generation, my blue collar neighborhood, when they were able to get a job, they wanted to get it as soon as possible. We wanted money in our wallet.

And dad, my dad said, listen, once you start working, I remember he said, you're going to keep working and are you sure you're ready to start this season of your life? And then he said, work is work. I've always appreciated that statement because I understand so many people that are brought up in this generation think that work is supposed to be some wonderful experience of joy and fulfillment and self-realization.

Work is work, and it is God's plan for us. It's a good plan, but because of the curse in Genesis 3, it's going to be by the sweat of our brow. There are going to be thorns and thistles in the dirt, so to speak, whatever your job and occupation is. And it's going to be work.

We need to prepare our kids that work is not something you do to have this self-realized, wonderful sense of gratification. Occasionally, you'll have those feelings of gratification, and hopefully, you'll have a lot of them more than discouragement and frustration. But work is work, and I think that's a good way to prepare our kids. Chores are chores, and your future work is work.

Speaker 2

You talked about chores. Maybe Carlin, you could talk about how that worked out in your household in terms of chores. Maybe getting your boys ready to take on that responsibility of work.

Speaker 4

Yes, absolutely. I've talked to a lot of moms who tell me that their three and four-year-olds are just too little to do anything. I find that very peculiar. We began teaching our sons and our daughter, for that matter, to have chores from the very beginning. Even when my 18-month-old was introduced to his new newborn brother, there were some things for him to do. "Bring me that diaper," or "Help me get his bag in the car." "You put it in for me, son."

There was always a sense of being part of the family and working to care for the family as a whole. Someday, that will extrapolate into working for God, you know, at the church. Eventually, you'll work for God and your family in your own home. So, work was always valued and expected from the very beginning. At the start, it was little things. Did they clear their plates? Did they help make their bed? Throw that blanket over the edge of their crib or whatever?

Speaker 3

Pick up their toys.

Speaker 4

Pick up their toys every day. That was obviously one before dad came home. Let's pick up your toys. So we always did that. We had chore charts where we took pictures of them and then we had a little pocket chart.

Every day they got to move over their chores. And you know, we didn't just do chores like set the table, but we also did responsibilities. Like every day we'd read the Bible, and that would be in the chore chart, and we would have it move over. Because we didn't just want them to work, we wanted them to be a godly child, a godly man someday. So we integrated those things together.

But every day there's work to be done for the family, and we don't just take off and have that chill time first.

Speaker 3

And the work isn't always fun. I think the goal is teaching them about delayed gratification. It's better to recognize that the fun isn't always going to be in the doing of the work. But there's a sense of gratification when it's done, and your room is picked up, and your stuff is in its place. Those are things that God has designed us to crave. We want order; we want things to be not confusing and chaotic. We can get a little bit of that gratification, but it's going to come down the road.

Work now, do your chores now. You know, we're going to go out in the yard, we're going to work, we're going to do something today, and it's not going to be easy. By the sweat of our brow, we're going to do it. But at the end of the day, we've exercised some dominion, as I talk about in the book early on. We are fulfilling God's role in our lives of being who we are called to be. We're exercising some leadership over things, and that is a difficult yet gratifying experience. However, the gratification part doesn't always happen right away.

Speaker 4

I actually think that helps with another problem that we have as parents. We have such a self-absorbed, entitled generation that we're raising, and it only seems like it's going to get worse.

One of the things that work does is help get your mind off yourself, and you begin doing good things for other people.

We weren't giving our 5-year-old the task of cleaning the entire garage, but we were giving them the sense of doing something not just to please ourselves.

Speaker 2

You talked about the gratification of seeing a job well done and cleaning your room and things in order. That work—it's your job, your chore, your work as a child. As you get older and you start to work and earn a paycheck, you experience that same sense of gratification.

It seems like when people start to earn money, they face new challenges. So, how do these boys, who are now men, deal with that money? How have you instilled money principles in them—Biblical money principles—as they've been growing up?

Speaker 3

Well, it needs to start young, I think Carlin and I have started with allowance.

Speaker 4

Probably when they're old, five years old. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Just so they get a sense that when they're in the checkout line and they see a pack of gum, they don't just say, "Mom, can I have it? Can you buy it for me?"

But, you know, I got a wallet. They may not have it on them when they're five, but they've got it at home.

And, you know, what do you have the money to buy it?

Speaker 4

Which really curtails the whole begging and having of throwing a fit. Because we always said, well, it's your.

Speaker 2

Responsibility, it's your money.

Speaker 3

Yeah, no, we've got to approve what it is. They can't buy a pack of cigarettes at the checkout. But if you want to buy that bubble gum, yeah, we'll let you buy that.

But you've got to be able to afford it. And if you can't afford it, well, then we'll have to wait till your allowance. And we pay them every Friday, I think. I don't know. Or the end of the week.

Speaker 4

At the beginning, it was simple and.

Speaker 3

Yeah, very simple. A little bit of money. And again, we teach them how to manage this money as God's resource. So there's always the giving element.

Speaker 4

Right?

Speaker 3

You tell them about our jars.

Speaker 4

Yeah, we would do basically three jars. One jar was for giving to the Lord, one jar was for saving, and then one jar you could spend on yourself. So it was, you know, kind of like your wallet, but your spending jar. We made it super simple at first. You know, I think we did $3. We taught them to give one, to save one, and to spend one.

But then, you know, of course it goes up from there. We made it simple at first, and they were expected to do certain things that would benefit the entire family. Certain little tasks throughout the week, when they were 5, like helping mom empty the trash cans, you know, things like that, would earn them their allowance.

Speaker 3

So if you count on that consistent allowance, and it went up as they got older, they could put that in their God jar. They had to put some money in that giving jar. They had to put the money in the savings jar, which I always encourage them.

The way we did it in our home is I said, "I'll double everything you put." I started an account for them when they were little. "I'll double whatever you put in your savings jar and put it in your savings."

By doing that, from the time they were four or five years old, by the time they were able to drive, the two boys were able to buy an old beater car. They bought a car with their own money that they saved up, and because they were motivated to be saving.

Speaker 4

And they're both savers now and they're in college and they're still saving for their future because they started this practice.

Speaker 3

We've always told you that you're never going to do well with money if you don't give. And so, from the very beginning, they've been givers. Thankfully, at our church, even our youth programs take an offering. They can bring their money to the church, and when they were little and there was no offering, we would take it for them and put it in the offering.

We want to make sure they recognize that everything comes from God and that they need to honor God with their wealth, as the Bible says. It's so true, and I know it's often taught about, but you just can't out-give God. When you are generous to God, He will take care of your needs. You may not get everything you want, but God is going to take care of your finances.

We have tried to build our kids to all be givers—generous givers. We want them to be givers not only to God but also when they see a need in someone else's life. For birthdays and Christmas, there are things we do where we encourage them to give generously to their friends or to people they see in the church who are in need or who don't have a lot. We want them to be givers and generous.

Speaker 2

Maybe you could talk a little bit about how rest and recreation sort of and fun played into the work roles and how they relate to each other real quick.

Speaker 3

Well, we had normal kids; they liked to have fun. That was their default mode. So work was always the thing we did before we had the fun, and then they got to it.

But as they got older and developed that work ethic, we had to intervene in some cases and say, "You gotta rest." We emphasized the importance of focusing on that, planning for it first, and taking that time off.

I think because both mom and dad are workers, we share the same challenge of ensuring we take our time off. We need to make time for a vacation or an afternoon where we can relax.

Speaker 4

And even if it's a few hours, you know, I mean, a whole day off is sometimes hard. It is hard to make happen. But having a few hours off here and there to go blow off steam is beneficial.

My one son just likes to shoot baskets and play basketball. And that's what he does in his, you know, blow off time. He would either play golf or sometimes read a book or whatever.

But yeah, we would have rest. However, it isn't all about rest, which is, I think, the default move for most families. It's like, well, let's have fun all day long.

Speaker 3

Ours was challenging courses in school and they had a lot of homework. I remember they could have, you know, three hours of homework.

And Carlin was always good to say, listen, you work for 50 minutes, you take a 10 minute break and you do something, you go out in the backyard and you chip golf balls or you shoot baskets and you come back in.

And just even the working in of a break in their homework when they were young, for 10 minutes every hour was a way for us to teach them the cycle of work and rest.

Speaker 2

So important. Thank you so much. That's all the time we have today to talk a little bit about raising Men, not boys.

We appreciate your time. Pastor Mike and Carlin, thank you so much. We look forward to next week when we finish up our last Ask Pastor Mike on this.

If you want to get Raising Men Not Boys, the book we're giving out this month for donation, you can go right online at focalpointministries.org where Dave will tell you how to do the rest.

Speaker 1

Sure thing, Jay. The name of Pastor Mike's new book is *Raising Men Not Boys: Shepherding Your Sons to Be Men of God*. And we'll send it right out to you when you give a generous gift to Focal Point today. When you do, you're making it possible for thousands of listeners to access Focal Point 24/7 through our mobile apps, podcast, on the radio, and satellite. Ask for your copy of *Raising Men Not Boys* when you call 888-320-5885 or when you go to focalpointradio.org. While you're there, you can hear this interview again and find additional resources on parenting. Just look for today's conversation under the Ask Pastor Mike tab.

Helicopter parenting and bubble-wrapped babies aren't necessary when you trust God to get your child through life. The more you know about God's unwavering faithfulness, the less you'll worry about the future. And that's why Focal Point is here each day to reach, teach, and equip believers with expository teaching to remind you He's got it all under His control. When fear threatens your peace of mind, God's Word restores your confidence in our sovereign God.

Give to make this truth known. Go to focalpointradio.org. And hey, if you're contacting us for the very first time, you're going to receive a free gift: a special message Pastor Mike just preached to his congregation called *The Urgency of Biblical Goals*. Hear how you can gear your mindset to raise up a new generation for Christ. It's not just a message for parents and grandparents; every one of us is called to play a part in shaping young adults in the body of Christ. Keep your personal edge sharp by getting this free message today. Call 888-320-5885 or go to focalpointradio.org.

You can also write to Focal Point at Post Office Box 2850, Laguna Hills, CA 92654. I'm Dave Droueh, wishing you a restful weekend ahead. We'll meet you back here with more parenting advice from Mike Fabarez Monday on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.

Speaker 2

Sam.