Ask Pastor Mike Fabarez

Speaker 1

Today on Focal Point, Mike Febares tackles a weighty question from a listener. Have you ever wanted to raise your hand in the middle of church? In the midst of learning more about God and growing in our faith, we have questions that need to be answered.

Well, today on Focal Point, we've set aside some time for Pastor Mike to address those pressing questions. If you'd like to ask Pastor Mike something, stay tuned. I'll share our contact information in just a bit.

Right now, let's join executive director Jay Wurton inside the pastor's study for this edition of Ask Pastor Mike.

Speaker 2

I'm here with Pastor Mike to get some answers for questions that our listeners have sent in.

And today, Pastor Mike, we're tackling a question about salvation. This listener writes, "I've heard you comment that a real follower of Jesus will endure in the faith, but can a true Christian backslide?"

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, it's not my comment, though I have said it. It's what the New Testament teaches, that real Christians, converted Christians, people with the Holy Spirit living in their lives, regenerate people are going to endure in their Christian faith. And what I mean by that is they are going to live as Christians for the remainder of their lives.

Now, the Bible says that Christians obviously sin, and it's not something that stops completely the trajectory or direction of our lives. I trust the frequency of our sin clearly changes. That's what repentance is going to result in: a new pattern of obedience.

What I don't want to do with the concept of backsliding is say that, well, yeah, someone can claim Christ and can live a life contrary to Christ and still call themselves Christians. Now, we may do that in terms of an act or a decision or something that we've done, but as a regular pattern of life. That's what the book of 1 John is all about. You can't live a regular pattern of life as a non-Christian and say, "Yeah, I'm a Christian. I don't follow Christ, but I'm a follower of Christ. I don't love God, but you know, I'm a Christian, and that means I kind of theoretically love God."

I mean, real Christians love God. They follow Christ. They don't do it perfectly. We stumble in many ways, as James says, but we don't live a life, a flagrant non-Christian life that doesn't follow Jesus Christ. When we sin, the Spirit of God dwells in us. We're convicted. We're drawn to a place of repentance. We're, I mean, not just drawn; we're pushed. The picture of conviction of the Spirit drives us to admit our sin, repent of it, and move forward.

Speaker 2

What would you want to see from a Christian, a believer that maybe is struggling with a particular sin and maybe they continue to fall and fall and fall? What would you be looking in their lives to determine whether they truly are regenerate?

Speaker 3

Right. Well, two passages come to mind. One is in the passage I was just referring to about discipline, that he's going to discipline us when we sin if we're not repentant. Right away, it is proceeded with, look at you guys. He says, you may have said you're trying to live godly lives, but you haven't resisted sin to the point of shedding blood. Now, that's a very dramatic statement. But the point is, I mean, there's a lot more you can do to fight this temptation in your life. There's a lot more you can do to sacrifice your comfort and convenience and pleasures in denying yourself to fight this sin.

It's funny how the word struggling, you know, can be defined so casually. You know, struggling means oops, oops, I blew it. I wish I wouldn't have done that. It's real. Struggling is the kind of struggling that the writer of Hebrews is trying to refer to there in chapter 12, that you're going to work hard at this. You're going to see the spirit of God aiding, moving, motivating, and empowering you to fight this sin in a severe way. So I would say we could probably do a lot more in our fight against sin than whatever we're doing. And let's not use the word struggle unless indeed we are struggling. It should be a struggle for us. And the Bible says it will be.

Now, when I say that a passage comes to mind where people say, well, as Christians, isn't obedience a joy? And yeah, I would say the commands of God are not burdensome. And by that, I mean the internal impulse of my life is to obey God as a Christian. So my heart is in sync with this. I want this; my flesh gives me the trouble that fights against that. It wages war, as Peter says, against my soul. So I'm in that battle. But in my heart of hearts, if you ask me, do I want to please God in this or do I want to fall to temptation? The answer is I want to please God in this.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you're not going to have that burden of what you would get for sin in terms of how you would feel that pressing on you. When you're obeying God, you're feeling Hey, I did the right thing. And it feels good to do the right thing, right?

Speaker 3

And it's the difference between David and Saul. When Saul sinned, he covered it up. He made excuses. When David sinned, God's hand was heavy upon him. His energy was drained.

The difference is that one was in step with God, had the Spirit of God dwelling in his life, while the other was just running from God with whatever he could get away with. And that's the difference between the Christian and the non-Christian. Both of them can have the label of God's man or God's woman.

But when it comes down to it, what's going on in your heart? If the Spirit of God lives there, you're going to have a kind of Christian life that's going to work hard and step up your fight against sin and temptation, because the Spirit of God won't have it any other way.

Speaker 2

You've talked a little bit about maybe patterns of sin in life. Would you expect to see a lessening, obviously, as we go forward? Talk a little bit about that. How does that work out in our lives?

Speaker 3

Well, I wouldn't say. Listen, if you've got a pattern of sin, clearly you're not a Christian in some particular temptation. Because Satan knows our weaknesses. He's always going to go after it. We're going to find that there's a frequent front of the attack of the enemy in terms of temptation.

So, you know, I realize there can be a series of sins and failures in the Christian life that will all be grouped in the same category or maybe the exact same problem. But all I'm saying is in time, there's going to be that focus of attention on seeing that attacked and fortified.

And I think there are so many things the Bible gives us as resources beyond just the spirit of God's conviction and empowerment, but things like the body of Christ, you know, accountability. He gave us pastors and leaders and counselors in the church to help walk us through these things.

So it ought to be that the pressure of the Spirit of God in conviction leads us to pull out all the stops as we continue to see that this one area of my life is a real problem to where at some point you say I got to deal with the avenue, whether it's this relationship or this job or this place that I live or whatever it might be. I got to change the whole category of the avenue of temptation so that I can see this rectified.

So, you know, Satan's going to constantly war against us. Our flesh is going to be weak. But I would just say we just need to get used to the battle against sin. And it will always be a battle for the real Christian.

Speaker 2

Well, we use this word backsliding. Can you give us a little background of where that comes from?

Speaker 3

Right. And it depends on the translation that you're reading. I think a translation that's trying to be very literal is going to usually use that word in our English translations of the Old Testament when it's speaking of the nation of Israel. Not always that way, but mostly that way. Talking about, well, Israel in its heyday here was doing really well under this king or in this particular time. And then the nation backslid.

Right. In other words, the progress, if you were charting out the spirituality or the righteousness of the nation, it was good here and it's moving here in a good direction. And then it took a dive here. And the word that will translate, that will translate into English, backsliding. But you don't want to create some artificial category that says, listen, that guy's backslidden. That's why, though he claims Christ, he lives a life that is completely contrary to Christ.

I'm not talking about Christians who are stumbling and getting back up and stumbling and repenting. I'm talking about the guy who just lives like a non-Christian, who indulges in the appetites of the flesh, who lives like any other non-Christian. But he says he's a Christian. And we say, well, I guess he's just backslidden because at one time he seemed pretty into Christ and now that's just a season of his life. I'm sure he's fine with God.

You're not fine with God. Right? There's a problem. You read the book of 1 John, and the Bible says if you say you walk in step with him or you're in the light, or you know God and you don't keep his commandments, your life is contrary to that. He says you're a liar. The truth is not in you.

Now, that's the Bible speaking. That's not me speaking. So I just want to say don't create an artificial category that gives you a sense of peace, that my life can look just like every other non-Christian. I cannot care about God and his Word. I don't obey it. And yet I'm a Christian because I walked an aisle when I was a kid.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Pastor Mike. I'm sure that discussion will be helpful for a lot of listeners.

And you've talked about this message in one of your sermons.

And we're going to play that right now. Faithful to a question of perseverance, salvation, and eternal security.

Speaker 3

When Jesus calls Peter and the other disciples that are mentioned in the first 11 verses of Luke 5, he said to Peter, "Hey, you put out into the deep. Let your nets down for a catch." Now, Simon answered, "Master, we toiled all night and took nothing." Now, I know nothing about fishing, but they say that when it comes to the Sea of Galilee, usually nighttime's the time to fish. They did that; the fishermen of the Sea of Galilee spent all night doing it. Daytime, now they're just washing and mending their nets. That's what they're doing. Christ says, "Oh, I know it's daytime. We've just preached here this morning; it's high noon. Whatever, let's go out fishing now." Nah, that ain't gonna work. I know you're really smart when it comes to spiritual things, but I don't think you understand how fishing works. But master, we took nothing and toiled all night. But at your word, I'll let down the nets.

When they had done this, they enclosed a large number of fish, and the nets were breaking. They signaled to their partners; we assume that's James and John, who were in the other boat. Andrew was probably in Peter's boat along with Jesus. They said, "Come and help us." They filled the boats up with fish. It was just amazing. The fish were jumping in the boats, out of the net, and the boats were so laden with fish, they began to sink. When Simon Peter saw it, he high-fived Jesus and said, "Would you go fishing with me every day? This is great. We'll make a fortune." No, after that amazing catch of fish, the very counterintuitive response, instead of high-fiving and rejoicing in the wonderful bounty day, he says, "Depart from me. Get away from me. Leave me." Why? Because what you just did says something about you. And because it says something about you, it reveals something about me. Me, I'm a sinful person. Depart from me. I'm a sinful man. Oh, Lord.

Something else that's harder to see in our English text, but look in verse number five. "Master, we toiled all night." Circle that word. That's an unusual word for the New Testament because usually we see this word in verse number eight, the last word of verse eight. "Lord," that's the Greek word "kurios," which is usually the word we see when we're seeing someone talk to Jesus Christ. When we see the Old Testament quoted, where we see the word Yahweh in the Hebrew text, you saw, in the Greek text, you saw it written "kurios." This was a big word. The word "master" is a different word. It's the word chief, boss, captain. Okay, no disrespect in that. It's not like, "Hey, chief." Okay, if you say so, master, then you see, away from me, I'm a sinful man. O Lord, something's happening here.

Obviously, a counterintuitive response sees his own sinfulness, amazed and astonished at what Christ had just proven about his authority. Two things stand in awe. There's something about the power and authority of Christ that makes Peter go, "Wow." And when you see Christ for who he is, there's something that happens to your view of yourself. You need to be humbled. If you don't see those two things happening in your life, then maybe you're still a part of the crowd. Maybe you're just in the stage of attraction and interest. Real Christianity, which is the kind of Christianity that grants eternal life and forgiveness, always necessitates understanding who Christ is in terms of his authority and power, and who I am in relation to that, a sinful person. Every conversion has to consider.

Let's start with the awe part of it. The lordship of Christ, the power. I mean, think about it. You are out there fishing, hoping these little small-brained fish will swim right into your net. You tried all night, with all your skill, couldn't do it. Here's Christ, simple word, "Do this." And all these small-brained fish, it seems, from every corner of the Sea of Galilee swim into your net. He has power, as Psalm 8 says, over everything, even the fish of the sea. There's a kind of exercise of authority that makes him go, "Wow. Away from me. Can't be in your presence." That reveals something about himself. "I'm a sinful man." There's the humility that always comes in the wake of that kind of vision of the great power of the triune God.

Why does it do that? Well, before I answer that, think about how often we see that happening. Ezekiel, you look all through the Old Testament visions that Daniel had. Think of Isaiah, Isaiah, chapter six. You know that we don't need to take time to turn there. But you know that passage, don't you? In the 52-year reign of Uzziah, which, by the way, in times of prosperity, like Uzziah's reign, as we read about in Chronicles and Kings, it always leads to a kind of complacency spiritually, and everybody feels safe, and their God becomes domesticated when everything's good. I'm speaking to 21st-century American Christians now.

And when God gets domesticated, as it did in the reign of King Uzziah, 50-year reign, people start to think wrongly about God, even the pastors of the day, if you will. And Isaiah has a vision in the year that King Uzziah died. He sees the Lord. You remember the statement, "High and exalted, lifted up, sitting on his throne, surrounded by seraphim," which, by the way, speaking of a consuming fire, I know that, you know, Sunday school grads, that's the highest-ranking angels we have in the Old Testament. That literally means "seraph," means "burning one." The burning ones surrounding the throne, calling out to one another, "Cool, hip and fun, is the Lord God Almighty." You know the passage; is that what it says? Oh no, that's the wrong version of Christianity. "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty."

After that scene, thresholds shake, smoke fills the temple. The train of his robe fills it. Everybody's freaking out. What does Isaiah do? What's his first word out of his mouth? "Woe to me, I'm ruined," right? "I'm lost because I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips." He sees his sin. Do you see the pattern? Whenever you see God for who he is, you start to see yourself for who you are. It's like you hanging out at the beach with everybody. Let's all go to the beach this afternoon. We put on our beach clothes and we hang out at the beach. And then all of a sudden, we realize we're not at the beach at all. We're teleported to the most fancy regal wedding reception we've ever been to. Everybody's in black ties and bow ties, and you're sitting there in your swim trunks and your, you know, 40-year-old body going, "What? Wow." And they're coming up to you, "Oh, welcome, sir. How are you tonight?" Well, how do you feel? You felt fine when you were with us at the beach. Now you get into the presence of something that's absolutely different, you start recognizing self-consciously, "Look at me, I'm totally unworthy to be here."

That's the picture. The God that we are to relate to brings a kind of humility and contrition that shows us our sin. "Woe to me, I'm unclean," right? "Unclean lips live among a people," and you remember God's response there. Seraphim flies over, takes a coal with tongs from the altar, brings it over to Isaiah, touches his lips, says, "Your guilt is gone. It's relieved. It's forgiven. Your sin has been atoned." Forgiveness. See, a lot of people say, "Great, I want to go to heaven. I don't want to go to hell. That's great. What do I do? Read this prayer, sign this thing, walk this aisle, do this deal, throw the pine cone in the fire. Fantastic. Great. I'm a Christian."

Now listen, real conversion, not the fleshly kind of "I want to sign up to be pro-Jesus," but the kind that really starts here in our heart is the kind that includes that kind of contrition and brokenness before God. You been there yet? If not, maybe you're just part of the crowd. Real conversion brings that kind of contrition that cries out in our own sinfulness for the forgiveness of God. You know, the next thing that happens in verse 8 of Isaiah 6, he says, "Who shall I send and who will go for us?" God says, from the throne. Do you remember what Isaiah's very famous terse response is to that? "Here am I. Send me." The response of someone who's been truly humbled by the authority and greatness of God, stood in awe of Christ. They're always ready to do whatever God asked them to do.

Is that how our passage ends? Middle of verse 10. And Jesus said to Simon, "Hey, don't be afraid. I got work for you to do. From now on, you'll be catching people." I direct these small-brained fish into your nets. I'm going to take these big-brained people and bring them into your preaching ministry, and I'm going to have you win people for me. And when they had brought their boats to the land, verse 11, they'd left everything. They left everything in felony. Now I know you think, "Well, they were just, you know, fishermen." That was his career, that was his job, that was his boat. Those were his nets. He left it all. Sacrifice, service.

When it comes to your conversion, if it's real, the thing that will be evident and obvious and everyone will see is your stepping up for service and sacrifice. One of the reasons you can know you're part of the crowd is that you just sit there as a part of the crowd, and you're not known for sacrifice for Christ and service to Christ. No one sees that. You just go about your work every week. You're not involved. "I don't have time to get involved." You don't have time to get involved? If you're not a servant of Christ, if you aren't seen as someone sacrificing things you could have and saying no to those to do things for Christ, then there's something missing here.

First Thessalonians, chapter one. Let's start in verse four. "For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you." How would you know that? How do you know they're not just part of the crowd that's kind of into Christ and interested in the teachings of Jesus? Verse 5. "Because our gospel came to you not only in word; it wasn't. You just sat there and took notes, but also in power. It did something in you and in the Holy Spirit. He changed you with full conviction." Would you describe Peter's encounter with Christ that way? Full conviction. "You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. And you became imitators of us and of the Lord because you received the Word." Here's something to highlight. "In much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit."

In much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit. There's something counterintuitive and paradoxical. You sign up to follow Christ, you receive the Word. It brings hardship and trial. And you don't say, "Well, that's tough, I can't do this anymore." You say, "Fine, I will joyfully endure the affliction." There's the sacrifice. Other things become less important, and your service for Christ becomes the most important thing. We call it around here at a pat, that little acronym "right at a pat." What does that stand for? Anything, any place, anytime. Anything, any place, anytime. That's what it means to come to Christ in repentance, hearts trusting in him as the King of Kings.

Interesting, this passage that we're reading here in Luke chapter five, though Luke doesn't record it, there is a little scene, a little, you know, end of the kind of appendix in the back of the Gospel of John, John chapter 21, where after the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, Peter, because of his failure, I believe in Caiaphas' courtyard and his feelings of insecurity about God and being inferior, and "I just can't do this," instead of shepherding the people of God, instead of teaching and tending to the people of God, he goes out fishing again on the same lake, probably with one of the same boats that his old fishing crew used to have. And he went out and said, "I'm not going to do it. I'm going to go fishing." And then, amazingly, Christ shows up, post-resurrection appearance on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. I love this, cooking fish for breakfast, right? He calls out to Peter, "Hey, put your nets on the other side." You can see the little tiny silhouette there on the shore. "Put your nets on the other side of the boat." Peter does it. Huge catch of fish. Exactly what took place here when he was converted. He hauls it in. He realizes it's got. He doesn't even direct the boat to land. You remember what happens? He jumps in the water and swims toward that little person on the shore, Christ. And he gets there, and they have that classic discussion, "Do you love me, Peter?" "Yeah." "Well, then, feed my sheep. I told you what to do. I didn't. You're not going to be a fisherman." "Do you love me, Peter?"

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Feed my sheep. Tend my lambs. Peter, I know you'd rather be a fisherman now, but do you really, really like me? A lot. Do you love me?

Speaker 2

Mmm.

Speaker 3

You know all things. I'm sad that you would ask me a third time. Feed my sheep. You may be like Peter at some point. You may say, I don't want to do that. Right? Anything means you're willing to do whatever it is God asks you to do. If he wants you to leave behind your, you know, your spreadsheets and Excel program to do something else, you're saying, whatever it is, anything, any place.

All you got to do is think about Jonah. He was willing to be a preacher for God. He was willing to do the work God wanted. He just didn't want to do it in Nineveh. Please remember that. Some of you may say that I'll serve you as long as I can stay in this zip code. I kind of like it here in Orange County. You know what? When you come to Christ, you lay down everything. I'll do anything. And I'll do it anywhere, anytime.

Can't help but think of Moses. Moses, when he was 40 years old, prime of his life, goes, I'm ready. I'll serve you. I will lead the people out of Egypt. And God says, no, not now. That frustrated him. You know how the story went. He leaves the country of Egypt as a fugitive. He goes and becomes a shepherd. He gets real good at it for 40 years. Now he's 80. Burning bush. The angel of the Lord speaks to him, "Hey, I want you to deliver the people from Egypt."

I would have done that when I was 40. I want to do it now. He argued with God, remember that? God gets real angry at him. I don't care what your timetable is. You've got to do this on my timetable. Anything, any place, anytime. Peter, Jonah, Moses. However you'd like to remember this.

What God is looking for in your heart is a kind of change from the inside out. The memorable words of Jim Elliot come to mind at this point, who not only gave up his career to serve on the mission field, but he ended up giving his life. Remember his famous line: he is no fool who loses what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

Speaker 1

We're living proof of redemption when we live out our faith. You're listening to Pastor Mike Fabarez here on Focal Point and a message called "A Question of Perseverance, Salvation and Eternal Security." Now to hear the complete, uncut version of this message, look for it when you go to focalpointradio.org.

When we live out our faith, people are bound to notice. And right now, someone may be watching you, wondering just what makes you tick. It's a topic that's given a full treatment in the book "The Art of Neighboring: Building Genuine Relationships Right Outside Your Door." And today's the final day you can request it. Whether you're clipping the hedges, walking the dog, or just waving a friendly hello, you can demonstrate the love of Christ in action and witness God's love transforming even the most mundane exchanges.

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I'm Dave Drouy for Pastor Mike Fabarez, wishing you a great weekend. Join us again next time when we continue our series in Psalms, Monday on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries. Sam.