Ankerberg Show

Dr. John Ankerberg: Welcome to the John Ankerberg Show Classics Edition. For decades, we've been privileged to host esteemed scholars discussing a wide range of topics from apologetics and science to biblical prophecy and beyond. Join us as we revisit these timeless conversations and make them accessible to you wherever you are.

Dr. John Ankerberg: We're talking about the topic how you can be sure that you will spend eternity with God. Is there anything more important than that? You want to know for sure. Now, some people think you can't know. The Bible says you can know, and we're going to tell you why and how you can know for sure.

Dr. John Ankerberg: In fact, our topic today is why is grace so amazing? We all know Ephesians 2:8, for by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it's the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. But I don't think we really understand the depth of those words. And my good friend, Dr. Erwin Lutzer, the pastor of Moody Memorial Church is here. He's written a fabulous book on this that we're going through together. And our goal is to share with you these truths of God's Word, so that you can hear the music, that you can hear the joy that comes when you understand what grace really is.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Now, Irwin, I think the best way to get into this topic of why grace is so amazing is let's talk about the guy that wrote the song.

Guest (Male): Everybody knows the song Amazing Grace. What they might not know is the context in which it was written. First of all, John Newton was a notorious sinner. As a matter of fact, he was willing to give people a prize if they could think of some way, some sin that he had as yet not committed.

Guest (Male): So here he is, it's 1748, and he's on a ship called the Greyhound, and a tremendous storm comes up. I mean, they are being battered. And it's almost certain they're going to go under. And Newton says to the captain, he said, "If God does not have mercy on us, we're going to go under." And the captain is shook because here's this hardened, swearing, hard-drinking, slave-driving person saying, "If God doesn't have mercy on us, then what?"

Guest (Male): So, all of the men were trying to man the pumps to keep the vessel afloat. Newton had a Bible his mother had given him. And even on the ship, he read these words. Now, just think of the context. This is actually from the Book of Proverbs, but he's reading this. And he reads, "If you had responded to my rebuke, I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you. But because you have rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I, in turn, will laugh at your disaster. I will mock when calamity overtakes you. When calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind."

Dr. John Ankerberg: That would hit you right in the face on that one.

Guest (Male): Yes. So, he's scared to death.

Guest (Male): Now, eventually, as we might guess, the storm subsided, and the sailors were spared. But Newton began to read the Bible. Could I take time to read his words exactly as I quote them in my book?

Guest (Male): He said, "I needed someone to stand between me and a holy God who must punish my sins and blasphemies. I needed an almighty Savior who would step in and take away my sins. I saw that Christ took my punishment so that I might be pardoned."

Guest (Male): Little wonder, he wrote, "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me." But John, even so, there are many people who do not really understand how amazing grace is. I remember in Chicago, there was a news commentator who was quoted in the newspaper as saying this, "Someday, I'll do something about my spiritual life and my walk with God if I get serious about it."

Guest (Male): Now, he said, "In fact, I am not in a state of grace, but I can do something about it if I get serious about it."

Dr. John Ankerberg: Well, the simple fact, John, is that that shows that that man still did not understand, he did not understand the nature of grace. Because there's nothing we can do about our condition, no matter how serious we get about it. As long as we are still thinking that we can do something about it, we still do not understand grace, which is God's unmerited favor toward us.

Dr. John Ankerberg: I'll talk to that as well as add one more category to it. There are a lot of people that say, "You know, grace is necessary, and they've got a grace program going." But the grace program is, part of it is God's grace, and part of it is what they do.

Dr. John Ankerberg: They haven't got a clue either.

Guest (Male): No, they don't.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Tell them why, because they would object to that.

Guest (Male): Because, you see, in the minds of many people, grace helps me. The simple fact is, we don't need help. We need a resurrection. You know, in Ephesians chapter 2, the Apostle Paul says that before we come to Christ, we are dead in our trespasses and sins. Now, imagine yourself walking through a cemetery, and you say, "Well, I'd really like these people who are in the cemetery, these corpses to live." "But, you know, I have to give them a little bit of help."

Guest (Male): No, they don't need help. They need a tremendous miracle from the hand of God. They're beyond the need for help. And that's the way we are without Christ. In fact, the Apostle Paul says it very clearly, as for you, you were dead in your transgressions and your sins in which you used to live when you followed the ways of the world and the ruler of the kingdom of the air.

Guest (Male): He says in effect that we are really deceived by Satan. We don't know it, but we are. In fact, he goes on to say that we are depraved because we're walking according to our own lusts. And this is our condition. And, and, and so the question is, how do we help people in a state like that? Now, mind you, just because they are dead in trespasses and sins, that doesn't mean that they can't go skiing in Colorado.

Guest (Male): That doesn't mean that they can't go grocery shopping or go to a symphony or enjoy life or listen to this program. They can do all of that. The one thing they cannot do, though, is give themselves life. That has to be from God.

Dr. John Ankerberg: I think that you're right on the target, so the people would say, "You know, Erwin, I'm starting to smell here that you got a different definition of grace than I'm holding." And I don't even know what yours is. Now, you're the pastor of Moody Memorial Church, and I'm just going to, I'm just going to throw this one to you now. So, what is your definition, what you're saying is in the Bible, what is this definition of grace that has not even been discussed yet? You're saying all these others are wrong. So what is grace, is your definition.

Guest (Male): Let me just, let me just turn to the Bible here. We're in the second chapter of the book of Ephesians. Paul says we are dead in trespasses and sins, and then he says, "But we were by nature the objects of wrath." Verse 4, "But because of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our transgressions. It is by grace that you have been saved."

Guest (Male): The point that I'm making is this, John. Grace is God's unmerited favor, but it's not his unmerited favor that just helps us to be better people or adds to what we have already done. Grace is entirely God's work when it comes to salvation. When Jesus was standing at the tomb of Lazarus, he didn't say, "Well, now, Lazarus, you do part of this, and I'll do part of it. If you wiggle your hand, I'll, I'll do the rest." He had to do it all.

Guest (Male): And the Bible says that salvation from beginning to end is God's. But I, I can understand, John, someone's listening today who says, "Yeah, but at least I have to believe." And that's true. But even that belief is God-given. So if there's someone listening today who wants to believe, that's wonderful. And we should pray that they would. But they have to understand that it is all of God.

Guest (Male): Our contribution, "Don't you contribute anything?" Yes, we do. We contribute our sin. But when we come to the table, we bring nothing except our great need. Grace means, "I don't come just to be better. I come for a miracle." Grace means, "I don't come simply because I think that I can do with a little bit of help. I need to be rescued." And that's why grace is so incredibly amazing.

Dr. John Ankerberg: We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about why grace, in essence, is a whole present that God has prepared himself and purchased himself and is making it available to you, and you do nothing except passively receive it. It is so great when you understand what God has done. And we're going to talk about what's in this package, and what did it cost God, and how people can receive that, so stick with us, we'll be right back.

Dr. John Ankerberg: All right, we're back. We're talking with Dr. Erwin Lutzer about the important topic, how you can be sure, how you can be certain that you will spend eternity with God. I think you want to be certain, don't you? But we have to talk about what grace is. Yes, it's free to us. It's a gift that God prepares and makes available to us. But Erwin, it cost God a lot to provide this gift. You have a great story that has a lot of different angles that it hits. Tell us about grace via this story.

Guest (Male): Well, you know, there was a missionary who made friends with a Hindu. And the purpose of the friendship was, of course, because we respect one another, but also the missionary was trying to explain to the Hindu that salvation has to be a free gift. And maybe I should just pause there and emphasize why it has to be a free gift. It's something to which we can make no contribution.

Guest (Male): And, Jesus Christ paid it all. Now, the Hindu was not buying this because in his mind, there had to be some works connected with it. But before the missionary left on a trip, the Hindu gave to this missionary one of the most beautiful pearls that anyone could ever possibly see. And the Hindu said, "You know, this pearl was captured in the water by my son who drowned in the process."

Guest (Male): And the missionary was so grateful, said, "Thank you very, very much. I'd like to pay you for this." And the Hindu, of course, was offended. "What do you mean pay? Is there any price that you could possibly put upon this pearl that cost me the death of my son?" And then the Hindu began to understand. That's why we can never pay God for what Jesus did for us on the cross. How can we even begin to pay for the love of God and the grace of God where Jesus would become a sacrifice for us and become our sin bearer?

Guest (Male): And we're going to be emphasizing that particularly in the next program, what that means. But how could we possibly pay God back? That's why throughout all of eternity, we are going to be debtors to God. And that's why I think heaven is going to be so filled with praises is that we are going to see more beautifully than we can even imagine here on earth, the fact that we were saved by God's grace and entirely by God's grace.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Erwin, some people though listen to that and they say, "Listen, it's still a fact that I'm better than my neighbor. Okay? I mean, doesn't that count for something?"

Guest (Male): You know.

Dr. John Ankerberg: "I mean, I should be able to get in just on my record."

Guest (Male): First of all, let me say that I'm glad that the person says that he's better than his neighbor. But unfortunately, we're not in a position to be able to judge ourselves, by the way. Most people revise themselves upward. But John, here's the point. Let's go back to Ephesians chapter 2. We are dead in trespasses and sins without Christ. Now, we may have two corpses. Maybe this person has been dead for 20 years, and this person has only been dead for three days. Does it really matter? If they're going to live, both of them need the very same miracle.

Guest (Male): The simple fact is that we are all members of the same race. We may not do what he did, thankfully. But the simple fact is that we are all sinners. And we can't say to ourselves, "Well, you know, he needed God's forgiveness, but I don't." Alexander Solzhenitsyn said it very well. He said, "Wouldn't it be wonderful if you had good people in the world and bad people in the world? We put all the good people on one side, all the bad people on the other."

Guest (Male): But he said, "The line does not go between the good people and the bad people. The line really does not run there." He says that the line between good and evil runs through every single human heart. You and I know, John, how often it can be said that we are shocked at even what a good person can sometimes do.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Right along this line, we're talking to people that think they're too good to need this grace. On the other hand, we've got to remember there's a whole lot of people that feel they're really bad. They have messed up their life, and I want to talk about how grace is powerful enough to change a person. And you've got a great illustration in your book about a young couple that came to you.

Guest (Male): Well, let me illustrate this. First of all, by saying that there are two categories of people that find it very difficult to accept grace. The first are those who have sinned greatly, usually moral sins, prostitutes, drug dealers. They think to themselves, "I've messed up so bad. God's so mad at me. I can't accept grace."

Guest (Male): The other people who find it difficult to accept grace are the goody-two-shoes, the religious types. I mean, don't they volunteer to do social work? Haven't they given some money to charity? Don't they pay all their bills? They don't have a criminal record. Why do they need grace? The simple fact is that both categories of people desperately need grace, and both can accept grace. This is why I think, by the way, though, Jesus said that the prostitutes will go into heaven, into the kingdom of heaven, even sooner than the religious types of his day because they saw no need for God's matchless grace.

Guest (Male): Let's hand it to the drug dealers and the prostitutes. At least they know that if they are going to be saved, it will be by grace. You know, one day, John, I was in a church, and a young couple came forward, and I was counseling them, and this is their story. Okay, she had come to know Christ as Savior. But they had belonged to a wife-swapping club.

Guest (Male): And she brought her husband to church. I don't think he wanted to be there. I think that she probably dragged him there. I, you know, I think he wanted to be there about as much as a counterfeit coin enjoys being on an offering plate.

Dr. John Ankerberg: I like that.

Guest (Male): But there he was. His wife had dragged him to church, and now he came forward after the meeting. So he said, "I believe in a wife-swapping club, or at least he says I'm attending and we're part of that." But I knew that his wife had come to know Christ recently. So I said to him, "Are you willing to accept Christ as your Savior?" And I'll never forget, he said, he said, "If you think that I'm going to stop doing what I'm doing," he said, "I can't." Because he said, "There's no way I can get out of this."

Guest (Male): You know, the addiction is too deep, basically, is what he was saying. And I said to him, "Are you willing to acknowledge that you are a sinner and that you need to accept Christ as Savior, and that you need to be received by God's grace if you're going to be accepted by God?" And he said, "Yes." And so I did something that I was very hesitant to do. I gambled on grace. I said, "Why don't you accept Christ as Savior? As long as you realize, number one, that you're a sinner, you cannot contribute to your salvation. You're throwing yourself helplessly on God's mercy and accept Christ as your sin bearer, and then let's worry about your wife-swapping club later."

Guest (Male): He accepted Christ that night. And I wondered to myself, I wonder if his life ever changed. A couple of weeks later, he made an appointment to see me, and I wondered, "What are we going to talk about?" You know the only thing on his agenda was what Bible college to attend. Because he wanted to go into the ministry. Now, here's, here are two powerful lessons about grace. First of all, that grace is communicated to those who are in desperate need, no matter of their lifestyle. Grace is available to them.

Guest (Male): But there's a second lesson. Once we've received God's grace, we are never quite the same again. In another program, we're going to be talking about what it means to be born again, and we'll see that God gives us a new nature with new desires, new aspirations, so that for this man, he could not go back to his former lifestyle. God had given him a whole new set of inner priorities. That is grace, and that's why it's so amazing.

Dr. John Ankerberg: To wrap this segment up, Jesus talked about two men.

Guest (Male): Yes.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Who both believed in grace.

Guest (Male): Oh, John, this is such a powerful story found in the book of Luke. Both of them believed in grace. Now, here's a man who goes into the temple and says, "I thank thee, God, that I am not like other men who are adulterers, extortioners, and so forth." And he says, "I fast twice a week. I'm a good person." He thanked God for that. He believed in grace. He believed that he, he was able to do these good works in the power of God's gift.

Guest (Male): Then there was another man, the publican, who never even had the nerve to look God in the eye. He never raised his head to heaven, the Bible said. But he, he smote himself, and he said, "God be merciful to me, the sinner." And Jesus said, "This second man went home justified, and the other did not."

Dr. John Ankerberg: That's, that's so powerful because you have two men who believed in grace.

Guest (Male): Absolutely.

Dr. John Ankerberg: But one had the wrong belief in grace and he did not get justified.

Guest (Male): One believed that grace was wonderful to help you to do better. The other believed in a grace that was much greater than that, the grace to be able to save somebody from the ground up. Somebody who has no, nothing to depend upon. And today listening to this program and watching us, John, there's somebody just like that, I believe, who honestly believes, "I have nothing to contribute. I've messed it up so bad. There's nowhere that I can go. I've ruined other people's lives. I've received letters from people in prison who tell me awful stories of what they've done." And they think to themselves, "There's no hope for me." And I want to tell them today that there is hope for them because grace is very amazing. In fact, there may be more hope for them than the religious person who is listening, who's a churchgoer, who thinks that he's doing pretty well, thank you. And grace comes along to give him a hand. But the other person knows, grace just doesn't give me a hand. It gives me a tremendous miracle.

Dr. John Ankerberg: I want you to pray with these folks in a moment. But folks, are, are you listening? Have you realized the good news of what he's been talking about? Maybe you are the goody-two-shoes. Maybe you are the churchgoer, and you've had doubts every once in a while, "Am I going to make it?" Because you've been doing your own set of good works and you're saying, "Well, God's going to add to that, but you have depended in some way, even a little bit, on your good works." And that's your problem. You've got to abandon anything that you would do and realize God gives the whole thing through Christ. Christ did everything that is necessary for us to be accepted before the Father.

Dr. John Ankerberg: On the other hand, maybe you're one of those who you thought God wouldn't have anything to do with you. Listen, you're in a good spot to realize, he loves you so much, he'll give you the whole package, forgiveness, a relationship with him, if you will just transfer your trust to the Lord Jesus today. Are you willing to do that right now? If so, Erwin, would you lead in prayer for these folks that would like to abandon anything that they were depending on to get them into God's presence, to get into heaven, to get forgiveness of sins, and they're willing to transfer all of their trust totally to what Christ did and believe in him only.

Guest (Male): That's right. Let's pray. Our Father, I want to thank you today for the wonder of Jesus. Thank you that he saves real sinners, terrible sinners. And we pray today, Father, for those who have been listening and watching. And we ask that you will give them the grace to pray a prayer something like this, "Oh God, I know that I have sinned. I know that I am a wretch, even as the song points out, a wretch like me. But at this moment, I receive Christ. I trust his mercy. I abandon all hope in my own goodness and my own performance, and transfer my trust totally to someone who is capable of saving me and becoming my sin bearer. I receive him, and I accept the promise that as many as received him, to them he gives the authority to become the sons of God, even to those who believe on his name. Bring assurance to these people, the assurance of faith, we pray in Jesus' name. Amen."

Dr. John Ankerberg: Amen.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Now, stay tuned as we revisit these timeless discussions and join us in celebrating the wealth of knowledge that continues to encourage and educate. To learn more, please visit JAshow.org. That's JAshow.org, or subscribe to us on YouTube.