Ankerberg Show

Dr. John Ankerberg: Welcome to The John Ankerberg Show Classics Edition. For decades, we've been privileged to host esteemed scholars discussing a wide range of topics from apologetics and science to biblical prophecy and beyond.

Join us as we revisit these timeless conversations and make them accessible to you wherever you are.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Today on The John Ankerberg Show, how can you live each day enjoying God's grace?

Guest (Male): I'll wake up some mornings, John, and I'll be honest with you, I don't even feel like a Christian. I I could care less about wanting to be one. I mean, that's just the way I wake up. You heard about the old boy who said, "Lord, I haven't coveted, I haven't had a lustful thought, I haven't lied, I haven't cheated, but I'm about to get out of bed."

Guest (Male): I don't have the ability to do what God's told me to do. I can't live the Christian life. So, therefore, someone lives in me to strengthen me, to enable me, to give me the ability to do what he expects out of me.

Dr. John Ankerberg: My guest today is conference speaker, author, and pastor, Dr. Wayne Barber, pastor of the beautiful Woodland Park Baptist Church in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Guest (Male): He lives within us to enable everything he demands from us. That's the good news. That's the beauty of the gospel. It didn't just stop at salvation, it started. Christ comes to live in us. He is our eternal life. He is our life. And that's what people need to understand.

Guest (Male): The same way you received him, the same way you walk it. Just trust him.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Join us for this special edition of The John Ankerberg Show.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Welcome to our program. We've got a great one for you today. My guest is Dr. Wayne Barber. He's one of the best that I know in helping Christians who have listened to sermons all of their life about how to live the Christian life. You've tried and tried and tried, you've tried your best and you've failed miserably and you think there's a piece missing, there's something wrong because it's not happening for you.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And he's going to encourage us today. Our topic is really a fun one. He's he's got the stories to illustrate the Scripture. He's a great exegete of Scripture.

Dr. John Ankerberg: But our topic today is picture yourself having a blast with Jesus. Can you even envision having a great time in your life, in your house, in your business with Jesus? How does it happen?

Dr. John Ankerberg: Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. And Wayne, you got this great story that will lead into what we're talking about. It has to do with dynamite and beaver dams. I can't wait to hear it. Tell us what you're talking about here.

Guest (Male): I love the outdoors. I love to hunt and fish, just about anything outdoors. Used to love to ski, but I'm sort of backing off of that now.

Guest (Male): But I was doing a meeting down in Mississippi. A friend of mine has a big piece of land. In fact, on that land, you can hunt. Oh, it's awesome. And you shoot, you mount what you shoot. I mean, it's trophy only.

Guest (Male): The lake that he has just full of big bass. I mean, it's just a great place to go and he asked me to come down, do a meeting in his church. So I went down, but the problem was, I went down in February.

Guest (Male): Well, the deer season's over, the lake is frozen. And I said, "George, what are we going to do?"

Guest (Male): He said, "We're going to blow up beaver dams." I'm thinking, "Why?" He said, "Well, we have trees that we want to sell, about 2,000 acres of them."

Guest (Male): And there are creeks that are running through there, they call them rivers, but they're more creeks. And he said, "When these beavers get in there, they dam up those creeks, and the water backs up on the trees, and then we can't sell them. So every week we have to trap the beavers, and we have to blow up the beaver dams."

Guest (Male): He said, "You get to go with me." And I thought, "Awesome."

Guest (Male): He said, "We got 13 sticks of dynamite." I could hear the scramble in heaven. Maybe it was Gabriel or Michael saying, "Hurry, hurry, hurry! We need 10 legions of angels now!" And they say, "Why? Barber and Hester are on a four-wheeler with 13 sticks of dynamite."

Guest (Male): Well, anyway, we got on this four-wheeler. Now, me on a four-wheeler is crowded. But me and my friend on a four-wheeler is ridiculous.

Guest (Male): So we get down into the swamp, he puts on a pair of chest waders, wades out into the water, takes a stick of dynamite and puts it down under the water into the dam, the beaver dam.

Guest (Male): I said, "You can't put dynamite underwater." Never been around dynamite.

Guest (Male): He said, "Well, just watch." He takes another stick, is going to put a cap in it, has some wires running to it. He said, "Take the ends of these wires and stick them in the ground."

Guest (Male): I said, "Why?" He said, "Static electricity can set off this dynamite, and I don't want Patricia, my wife, looking for 500 pieces of my body in the swamp."

Guest (Male): So okay, I stuck them in the ground. He puts the cap in and put it underwater into the dam.

Guest (Male): He comes out, he says, "Now Wayne, get behind something." I said, "No, I want to watch."

Guest (Male): He said, "Wayne, if we blow things up in the air, they're going to come down."

Guest (Male): I should have paid attention to it.

Guest (Male): But he had a battery there and he had these two ends and of course, he touched it to the different positive, negative poles there. And he said, "Fire in the hole!"

Guest (Male): Well, dynamite is really interesting because you don't you don't see it at first, you feel it. It was like, you know, and then boom! By the way, he was right. Everything just blew up in the air.

Guest (Male): And suddenly, we were ducking because things were falling down. And it was I have a quirky mind. It was like that water was saying, "Let us flow. Let us flow. Let us flow."

Guest (Male): And of course, when we blew the dam, it was like, "Thank you, flow, river flow."

Guest (Male): We went to the next dam and I said, "George, put three sticks of dynamite in there."

Guest (Male): He said, "Three sticks?" I said, "Come on, George, put three sticks in there."

Guest (Male): Well, he did. And this time, it wasn't just boom, it was whom, it was awesome and it sure enough again, we were ducking from the things falling and the river just started flowing.

Guest (Male): We went to the next dam and I said, "George." He said, "What?"

Guest (Male): I said, "Put five sticks in there. Come on, George, put five sticks in there."

Guest (Male): You know, five sticks will blow a stump from Alabama, you know, from Mississippi to Alabama. I mean, it's amazing how much power there is in there.

Guest (Male): He put five sticks in there. And this time, it was awesome. We blew a hole in the bottom of the river there, so the beavers hated us because they had to fill that in before they could build the dam back.

Guest (Male): One year goes by. I go back.

Guest (Male): And I said, "George, what are we going to do this time?" Because it was also in February. He said, "We're going to create a nuclear explosion."

Guest (Male): I said, by the way, he's getting counseling. I think he's doing better.

Guest (Male): And I said, "What are we going to do?" He said, "We're we're tired of blowing up these beaver dams. We're going after the beaver den."

Guest (Male): I said, "All right, we're going to the main house." And he said, "I'm sick of doing this every week."

Guest (Male): So we had to get in a boat to get out to where it was and we got out and he said he had a five-gallon can with five sticks of dynamite plus another chemical soaked in diesel fuel for 72 hours. And he said, "We're going to create this explosion." Did we ever.

Guest (Male): And when I went out, of course, my mind is about 14 and it's getting worse as I get older. I'm 69, but my mind is 14.

Guest (Male): And so we get out there and I knocked on the wood. I went, knock, knock, knock. I said, "Anybody home?" Nobody came to the door.

Guest (Male): So I said, "UPS, we have a little package for you." And we put it there and sure enough, oh my, what an explosion! I've never heard anything like that.

Guest (Male): And people say, "We're worried about the beavers." I said, "Nothing came out of the beaver bigger than the end of my finger."

Guest (Male): But we went back to his house, three quarters of a mile away.

Guest (Male): And his son-in-law walked out and said, "What did you all do?" And we said, "We just had a little explosion." He said, "No, glasses fell over into the sink and broke. We're looking for cracks in the foundation."

Guest (Male): Well, a lot of people wonder why I would tell that story.

Guest (Male): And the reason I tell that story is that Jesus said very clearly in John chapter 7, verse 38, he says, "Out of you will flow rivers of living water."

Guest (Male): And John 14, 15 and 16, he said, "I got to go back to my Father." And Peter, of course, argued with him. He said, "No, if I don't go back, then the Spirit cannot come. And he won't just be with you." That was the Old Covenant. "He's going to be in you and going to cause that living water to flow out of you."

Guest (Male): And what we do, John, when we think we can live the Christian life in our own strength, we dam up the flow.

Guest (Male): People are trying to get into a room they're already in and don't even know it. They're wanting this blessing, that blessing, or this experience or that experience. They have all of Christ they're ever going to get.

Guest (Male): The key is learning to release it by faith. By faith we received it, by faith we release it. And faith simply is surrendering to Christ and saying yes to him.

Dr. John Ankerberg: A lot of Christians, this is going to be brand new to them, so I want to anchor this in the word of God.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Okay? And you are terrific at teaching the word of God. Let's jump to Ephesians to prove what you're talking about. And start us off, there is a prayer, chapter 3, starting at verse 14 through 21, I think it is.

Dr. John Ankerberg: That the whole book of Ephesians hinges on this prayer. It concludes the first three chapters and sets up 4, 5, and 6.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And I'm saying, take us through this prayer. What was Paul trying to convey?

Guest (Male): Awesome, because it's a wonderful prayer.

Guest (Male): In verse 14, he says, "For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name."

Guest (Male): And then in verse 16, "That he would grant you." And the word grant there means gift something to you.

Guest (Male): Everything we have from God is a gift. We don't deserve anything.

Guest (Male): But he said that he may grant you according to the riches of his glory.

Guest (Male): That word "according to." It's not out of. Some translators say out of. No, no, no. That's a different Greek word. Ek is out of, but this word that he uses there is the word kata which means according to. It determines the measure of something.

Guest (Male): Now, John, if I had a million dollars, that'd be kind of nice, and I wanted to give you some money.

Guest (Male): Would you want me to give you out of my wealth or according to my wealth?

Dr. John Ankerberg: According.

Guest (Male): Absolutely. Because everything that we are talking about here is reflective of everything he's given to us in Christ.

Guest (Male): And so he said that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory.

Guest (Male): Now, what are these riches? Now, what are they for? To be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner man.

Guest (Male): But let's go back to the word riches. What are these riches that we have?

Guest (Male): In chapter 3, he tells me in verse 8, he says, "To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." They're unsearchable.

Guest (Male): And then he tells us in chapter 1, and verse 18, "I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened."

Guest (Male): This is not something you learn in a classroom. This is something God has to reveal to our hearts.

Guest (Male): So that you will know what is the hope of his calling, what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Yeah, I think that's very important because people that have been Christians, they've they've sincerely invited Christ into their life, they believe on him, and what we're talking about is brand new to them.

Guest (Male): Yes.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And here Paul says, "Hey, this is kind of a mystery that I'm revealing, and I want I'm praying for you that God will enlighten you, open your eyes to what he wants for you."

Dr. John Ankerberg: And so I think you got to say it again. This is something that God's going to show you, God's going to bring to you, then you're going to understand it, the lights are going to go on and it's going to show you how this operates.

Guest (Male): Yes, that you already have these things. It's not a matter of getting more of God. It's a matter of God getting more of us as we learn to say yes to him.

Guest (Male): Then we begin to realize and recognize what it is he's put within us. He starts, let me let's just look at these riches.

Guest (Male): He starts in verse 1 and we're just going to hit a few of them.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Okay.

Guest (Male): It says, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints." Now that's interesting.

Guest (Male): There's some religion that say this person's a saint, that person's a saint, but not everybody else.

Guest (Male): But in Scripture, it calls us all saints. And the word saint means that we're set apart unto God for his use. It's for his use.

Guest (Male): One of the reasons we're on this earth and our heart is beating is because he has a purpose for us.

Guest (Male): He's come to live in us. He knows what we're not, but he also knows who he is and whose we are.

Guest (Male): So he comes to live in us and so he sets us apart for his work.

Dr. John Ankerberg: All right, let's let's stop right there because some people are saying, "Wayne, I accepted the Lord a while ago, and I've given into the lustful desires. I've given into the passions. There's a bunch of sins in my life. You know, I need to have that blown up by Jesus because the river is not flowing out of me." Okay?

Dr. John Ankerberg: Talk about this thing of what Paul is describing here that he's willing to do, Christ is willing to do through us for people that say, "You know what? I've got a lot of sin. Does this really work for a guy that's got a lot of sin?"

Guest (Male): Absolutely. And we all do, by the way.

Guest (Male): Somebody tells me, "I've got a lot of sin in my life." I said, "Get a number, get in line." It's all of us, every day, if we're honest. And a lot of people aren't honest.

Guest (Male): But what God wants to do is to exchange us.

Guest (Male): What God wants to do is help us to understand first of all, through his word, what he's given to us, and then as we learn to say yes to him, we exchange.

Guest (Male): All that we're not, it's incredible, for all that he is.

Dr. John Ankerberg: All right, we're going to take a break and we come back, Wayne's going to talk about God has given us every spiritual blessing that we need. He's going to talk about why this is so fantastic. Stick with us, we'll be right back.

Dr. John Ankerberg: All right, welcome back. We're talking with Dr. Wayne Barber and we're talking about what God has provided through Christ to every one of us who are Christians that are battling with our flesh.

Dr. John Ankerberg: A lot of us have lost many, many times to the desires that we have.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And we don't understand all these promises that God has made to us. And Wayne is trying to explain from Ephesians what Paul is talking about.

Dr. John Ankerberg: In chapter 1, verse 3, he's got what you call the First National Bank of God in a verse. What is that?

Guest (Male): Well, it's we have everything we'll ever need for life and godliness, just like Peter says in 2 Peter 1:3. We have everything in Christ.

Guest (Male): It's all in Christ. That's one of the key phrases in all of Ephesians: in him, in him, in Christ, in Christ. So in Christ, we have everything we need.

Guest (Male): He's the "I Am." A lady asked me one time, "What is the 'I Am'?" I said, "Fill in the blank."

Guest (Male): Whatever you're not, he is. And everything he demands from us, John, he lives within us to enable. That's the beauty of the Christian life. That's the good news.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Explain that a little bit more because it runs right past people, they don't understand. Yeah, Christ can do all that, but it's me, Wayne.

Guest (Male): That's right.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Now talk about how Christ is in us and how that gets out of us into our lives.

Guest (Male): Let's go back and bring Bubba on just for real quick.

Guest (Male): Now, there's my Bubba. He helps me illustrate this.

Guest (Male): Without any life within him, he's pretty dead.

Guest (Male): And the law demands from him things that he cannot produce.

Guest (Male): That's before the cross, but then he discovers after the cross, it's the same way. He still doesn't have anything of his own to accomplish what God demands.

Guest (Male): However, when he recognizes life has come into him.

Guest (Male): And that's the way it is with the Christian walk. God has come to live in us.

Guest (Male): Paul, when he when he's there in Ephesians chapter 1, breaks into a praise.

Guest (Male): "Blessed be the God and Father." And the word blessed means to speak well of. It's a word for praise.

Guest (Male): "Praise the God and the Father!" And of all people to say this is the Apostle Paul.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Yeah. And the thing is, people that are Christians have invited Christ to come into their life and they've trusted him to save them from their sins.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And they know they had nothing to do with it. There was no works, there's nothing we could do. He had to do it all. Okay? And they've trusted him to do it all.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Now, when we get saved, all of a sudden we think we've got to live for God. Okay? But why did Jesus come into our lives? That's what we're talking about.

Guest (Male): Exactly. He came in to enable us to be everything he demands from us. You're exactly right.

Guest (Male): And then think what he says here in Ephesians 1. He says, "First of all, we're saints." We talked about that.

Guest (Male): I was in Indonesia and I was doing a seminary graduation. And these precious people would come in.

Guest (Male): And of course, in other countries, they look at Americans with dollar signs on us. If we could just help them, they could get done what God has in front of them.

Guest (Male): So I started off and I said, "Now, in the morning, wake up and say, 'Good morning, Saint,' and whatever your name is."

Guest (Male): You just look in the mirror.

Guest (Male): Well, they couldn't catch it. For the first two or three days it was like, "What is he talking about?"

Guest (Male): On the on the fourth day, I walked out, stepped up to preach to them and teach them.

Guest (Male): And they all stood up in unison, about 200 plus of them, and they all said, "Good morning, Saint Wayne!" And the guy who was ahead of that seminary told me, he said, "Wayne, the Ephesians has helped these people understand."

Guest (Male): They have everything that's needed for everything God demands from their life.

Guest (Male): They're saints. They are set apart by his own purpose and design in their life.

Guest (Male): And then he says in verse 3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Guest (Male): Who, look at the tense, "has blessed us with every." And by the way, the word every in the Greek is a great word. It means every. "Every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ."

Guest (Male): Everybody's asking me, "Do you have a second blessing?" Man, I've got the 10 million, 472,000. I've got them all in Christ.

Guest (Male): And the problem is, I don't know how to tap into what I already have.

Guest (Male): Same way I received it, we keep saying it, by faith, which means what? Forsaking all else, I trust him. That's one way to say it.

Guest (Male): By faith, I'm going to say, "Yes." You cannot separate saying yes to Christ and faith.

Guest (Male): Faith is what that is. It's not static. And so as we learn to live that way,

Guest (Male): we start appropriating what's already ours in Christ. It's like having a bank vault with our name on it.

Guest (Male): But the only way to get to it is to bow and surrender and say yes to him.

Dr. John Ankerberg: And when we do surrender, what happens?

Guest (Male): Well, when we surrender, we tap into the life that is within us.

Guest (Male): This is some of the scriptures we've been looking at.

Guest (Male): It's like in Galatians 2:20, "I'm crucified with Christ. Nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me."

Guest (Male): Philippians 1:21, he said, "For to for to me to live is Christ. To die is gain."

Guest (Male): Colossians 3:4, "When Christ, who is our life."

Guest (Male): So that's there, the river is ready to be tapped into. But we have to learn to surrender to him.

Guest (Male): The reason I say surrender instead of obedience, the Pharisees were obedient.

Guest (Male): Obedience, yes, is important, but I see it more of a consequence than a cause. The key to all sin starts in the heart. It's a heart problem.

Guest (Male): So when I come to say and my heart is yielded and surrendered to him, that's when the dam is removed. And that's when the flow begins to take place.

Dr. John Ankerberg: People are saying, "Well, Wayne, why is it so hard for me to do that?"

Guest (Male): Because it's hard for all of us to do that. In fact, it's impossible for us to live it, but to say yes, it's easier as we learn it. We have to learn it.

Guest (Male): It's like a it's like a reflex. You finally learn. Listen, the best way to say no to the flesh is by saying yes to Christ.

Guest (Male): To stop looking at the flesh, everything we can't do, and start looking at him and everything he can do.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Yeah, I love that fact that you you said in some of your books, "You even start in praying, say, 'God, I understand this is what you're saying. Start changing me. Because I don't feel like that. I don't want to do that, but I know you want me to do it. And I confess it as sin, but I don't have a desire right now.'"

Dr. John Ankerberg: "Lord, you've got to create the desire and so that I want even to obey you in this area."

Guest (Male): That's right.

Dr. John Ankerberg: You've got some great stories about in your own life where God showed you things, you didn't want to do them, and he finally brought you around to them. I was thinking about this lady in the missionary part of your church.

Dr. John Ankerberg: The was raising money for missions there.

Guest (Male): That's right.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Tell me that story.

Guest (Male): As a matter of fact, when I just got to the church to pastor, she walked up to me and I hadn't been there three weeks.

Guest (Male): She said, "Young man." And when they point the finger at you, it's loaded.

Guest (Male): She said, "Young man, I want you to know something." I said, "What's that?"

Guest (Male): She said, "I'm the president of our missions organization." In fact, it was called the WMU, Women's Missionary Union. And she said, "I'm the president and I want to tell you something. I know you're new and I know you're here.

Guest (Male): We're going to do what we've always done our way. Do you understand me?" And I'm thinking, "Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am." So I it took me a while to realize the WMU wasn't the Women's Military Union.

Guest (Male): I mean, there's a school for mean women somewhere and they train them and send them wherever I pastor. It's incredible. They follow me around.

Guest (Male): So she got on me every season of the year. Christmas time was Lotty Moon. Spring time was Annie Armstrong.

Guest (Male): And she'd come to me and say, "Preacher, preacher," she'd say, "Preacher, you need to get in that pulpit and you need to hammer these people because we can't get the offering if you don't."

Guest (Male): And I forget it. I forget my name on Sunday morning because my mind's wrapped around what my message is.

Guest (Male): So finally one year, she came to me and she she told me, she said, "Don't you forget the Annie Armstrong offering in the spring."

Dr. John Ankerberg: That was a missions offering.

Guest (Male): Exactly. A missions offering named after these different missionaries.

Guest (Male): I got to where I didn't like these people anyway, but they're in heaven, so they don't bother me.

Guest (Male): And I and I got up in the pulpit and preached out of Philippians chapter 2, "Have this attitude in yourselves which is also in Christ Jesus."

Guest (Male): And when I finished, I forgot to announce it.

Guest (Male): After preaching, you know, this kind of message.

Guest (Male): When I saw her coming, I knew what I'd forgotten. The service was over. And she walked up to me and she said, "Preacher!"

Guest (Male): And I said, "What?" I mean, we're really doing well. We're really tapping into the stream here.

Guest (Male): I said, "What?" She said, "You didn't say anything about the offering."

Guest (Male): And I said, "Well, what's your goal this year?" She said, "$1,350."

Guest (Male): I said, "Well, what was it last year?" She said, "$1,300."

Guest (Male): I honestly had something good I wanted to tell her, but when you're walking after the flesh, it doesn't come out that way.

Guest (Male): And I said, "Do you think God can afford $50 more dollars this year?" And she went, " and walked out."

Guest (Male): And I went, " and I walked out the other side."

Guest (Male): That's not a good situation. That's not a good situation.

Guest (Male): On the way home, God began to bring my message back to me. "Have this attitude in yourselves which is also in Christ Jesus."

Guest (Male): And I began to understand the flesh that had just been manifested. And I said, "Lord, I I just have to confess that to you."

Guest (Male): It was like God said, "Do you love this woman?" And I'm thinking, "I don't even like her."

Guest (Male): He said, "How would you like for me to love this woman through you?"

Guest (Male): And I want to tell you, when I started saying, "God, I can't love this person. I don't even like this person, but Father, you've commanded me to love her. And I want to ask you, will you produce the love that you require from me in me for her?"

Guest (Male): She became one of the dearest friends I had over the next 16, 17 years.

Guest (Male): Her husband, they were just dear, dear, dear people.

Guest (Male): And I'm thinking, that's one just practical illustration of we can't love people like God tells us to love.

Guest (Male): But he lives in us to do through us what we could never do ourselves. It's the life inside us.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Folks, we're just getting started in Ephesians. Next week we're going to jump to the topic in Ephesians of how you make Jesus feel at home in your heart. Okay? You're going to laugh and you're going to find out some great things from the word of God. I hope that you'll join us then.

Dr. John Ankerberg: Now, stay tuned as we revisit these timeless discussions and join us in celebrating the wealth of knowledge that continues to encourage and educate. To learn more, please visit JAshow.org. That's JAshow.org or subscribe to us on YouTube.