Adventures in Odyssey

Chris: Hi, this is Chris. Welcome to Adventures in Odyssey. Where wonder, excitement, and discovery are just around the corner. Are you ready? Come on, let's go for another Adventure in Odyssey.

Renee: You wanted to see me, Mr. Whittaker?

Mr. Whittaker: Renee. Yes, I wanted you to be the first one to try out some modifications I've made here in the gallery.

Renee: Modifications?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, it was your idea. Use the Imagination Station technology to make the gallery a more multi-dimensional interactive tool to help with research. My hope is that the kids will come up here, say a few words, and learn about any number of topics. You do remember suggesting this?

Renee: I! But that was weeks ago. I didn't think you heard me.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, I did. And now they're done. I even have a topic for you. Faith versus science.

Renee: Now, why would you choose that particular topic?

Mr. Whittaker: I think you know why.

Renee: Camilla?

Mr. Whittaker: Camilla.

Renee: What did she tell you?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, that her science teacher made some disparaging remarks about religion and God. Camilla said she stood her ground, but it resulted in her teacher assigning her to write a report supporting religion over science. She told me she came to you for help with the report, and you said no.

Renee: I did.

Mr. Whittaker: Why?

Renee: Well, because...

Mr. Whittaker: Because you agree with the teacher.

Renee: I. I do.

Mr. Whittaker: Okay, but Camilla didn't ask you about your beliefs. She asked you to help her defend hers.

Renee: I knew this day would come. Whit's End is a faith-based business built around your Christian beliefs, beliefs I don't share. I know we've talked about it, but I guess I hoped it'd never come out with the kids. And now it has.

Mr. Whittaker: Which brings us back to the modifications of the gallery.

Renee: Mr. Whittaker, no modifications to any of your magnificent inventions can alter the simple fact that science and faith are incompatible.

Mr. Whittaker: Are you sure about that?

Renee: Quite sure. And I can in all good conscience tell kids otherwise.

Mr. Whittaker: Why don't we use the modified gallery to test that certainty?

Renee: You mean change my mind?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, I mean go wherever the evidence leads. As a scientist, aren't you all for open inquiry?

Renee: Certainly. But what's the point when there's no evidence?

Mr. Whittaker: I'll tell you what. Let's see what evidence the gallery has to offer. If you're not convinced, then I won't stop or discourage you from telling Camilla your position on the matter.

Renee: Really?

Mr. Whittaker: You still have to deal with her parents, but you won't get any opposition from me.

Renee: Mr. Whittaker, I hate to take advantage of you.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, yeah, does that mean you're game?

Renee: Sure.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, great. Gallery, show us the astronomy tower at Campbell College.

Mr. Whittaker: There, nice and framed.

Renee: Lovely. Why start there?

Mr. Whittaker: I take it you've been in this building many times.

Renee: Certainly, dozens.

Mr. Whittaker: Have you ever noticed what's carved in the stone above the entrance?

Renee: There's something carved there?

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, zoom in.

Renee: Huh. Is that Latin?

Mr. Whittaker: Yes. Can you read it?

Renee: Caeli enarrant Gloriam Dei et opus manuum eius annuntiat firmamentum.

Mr. Whittaker: Psalm 19, verse 1. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork.

Renee: A Bible verse? Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. This is Bible country after all.

Mr. Whittaker: It's not just here. Gallery, show us the seal and motto of Harvard University.

Mr. Whittaker: Notice what's written on it?

Renee: Veritas. Harvard's motto.

Mr. Whittaker: Do you know what it means?

Renee: Oh, sure. It's Latin for truth.

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, now show us Harvard's original seal and motto.

Renee: It's different. Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae.

Mr. Whittaker: Truth for Christ and the church. You see, right from the very beginning, America's most famous university was devoted to Christ. And this is not just true in America. Gallery, take us to Cavendish Laboratory circa 1874.

Renee: Oh, the whole room changed.

Mr. Whittaker: One of my modifications. Now, do you know this place?

Renee: Cavendish Laboratory? Well, sure. Every physicist, engineer, and mathematician knows Cavendish.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, then you should recognize that gentleman standing at the door.

Renee: Oh, is that James Clerk Maxwell?

James Clerk Maxwell: Someone mentioned me name.

Renee: Well, yes sir. Hello, Renee Carter.

James Clerk Maxwell: Ah, pleasure. Do I know you?

Renee: No, sir, but I know you. Developer of electromagnetic theory and founder of this laboratory. Oh, you're one of my heroes.

James Clerk Maxwell: Well, aren't you kind? I wonder if you could help me out.

Renee: Certainly, anything.

James Clerk Maxwell: I'm trying to ascertain if the phrase I ordered carved into this door is centered properly. I think it's slightly off. What do you see?

Renee: Oh, it looks centered to me.

James Clerk Maxwell: You can read all the words?

Renee: Oh, sure. Well, except they're in Latin.

James Clerk Maxwell: You don't know Latin?

Renee: Oh, no, not as well as I should.

James Clerk Maxwell: Magna opera Domini, exquisita in omnes voluntates eius. The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.

Renee: Don't tell me, a Bible verse.

James Clerk Maxwell: Indeed, Psalm 111, verse 2.

Renee: You ordered that carved in the door?

James Clerk Maxwell: You sound surprised.

Renee: It's just that a Bible verse doesn't seem like something a scientist would want carved into the door of his laboratory.

James Clerk Maxwell: It would if the scientist were also a Christian.

Renee: You're a Christian?

James Clerk Maxwell: Again with the surprise. I thought you said I was one of your heroes.

Renee: Well, you are.

James Clerk Maxwell: But you did not know I'm a Christian?

Renee: Well, I...

James Clerk Maxwell: You're a scientist, are you?

Renee: In training.

James Clerk Maxwell: Ah, well, then you should know that Christian theological training shaped not only my thinking, but the thinking of all scientists, yours included.

Renee: Oh, no, I don't think so.

James Clerk Maxwell: Skeptic, eh? I'll prove it. First, do you believe nature is God?

Renee: Of course not.

James Clerk Maxwell: Exactly. But the reason you don't is due to the influence of Christian theology. Before Christianity, most everyone thought nature was God. It was Christians who said, "No, God created nature." Which means that nature can and should be experimented on. Poked and prodded and cut up. You would not do that to something divine now, would you?

Renee: Well, if I believed in something divine, then, no, I guess not.

James Clerk Maxwell: Ah, good. Second, when you conduct an experiment, don't you assume that the problem you're trying to solve is solvable? That it actually has a solution?

Renee: Oh, of course. Otherwise, why conduct the experiment?

James Clerk Maxwell: Ah, just so. Thank Christianity for that, too. It shows us that the universe is capable of being understood because it was made by a God who brought order out of chaos.

Renee: Hey, where did he go?

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, sorry, some of the programming is still a little bit glitchy, but I take it you got his point?

Renee: No, not really.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, these two truths, that nature is not God and that it's capable of being understood, were brought together by Christian belief. And when that happened, modern science flourished. Christianity helped start modern science.

Renee: Ah, that's a bit of a stretch, isn't it? There are some Bible verses carved into walls at universities, so Christianity started science. Really?

Mr. Whittaker: How do you explain it then?

Renee: Oh, it's simple. It just means we went from ignorance and superstition to knowledge and fact. That's all.

Mr. Whittaker: Not convinced, huh?

Renee: Hardly. You'll have to do a lot better than that if you can.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, don't worry. We're just getting started.

Guest (Male): Here are five words that are going to knock your socks off. Ready? The Adventures in Odyssey movie. That's right, an animated feature film is coming to the Adventures in Odyssey universe. And you don't want to miss a single thing, so stay up to date by signing up to be an Odyssey Studio Insider. It's like getting a backstage pass for everything happening with the movie. Go to Odysseystudioinsiders.com to sign up. That's Odysseystudioinsiders.com.

Renee: So, what's next, Mr. Whittaker?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, just so I'm clear, even though there's all this evidence at colleges and universities that science sprang from faith, specifically Christian faith, you still hold that science and faith are incompatible, is that correct?

Renee: I do. Faith cannot compete with science.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, you think science and faith are competing with each other?

Renee: Of course.

Mr. Whittaker: That's interesting. Gallery, show us last Friday's football game at Odyssey High School.

Renee: Oh. Are we on top of the scoreboard?

Mr. Whittaker: It's a better view from up here. Gallery, speed up the game at triple speed.

Renee: This is great!

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, lower the volume.

Mr. Whittaker: Now, what do you see?

Renee: Well, that lab is on sides! Come on, ref, throw the flag!

Mr. Whittaker: I mean, look more closely at the movement of the players in general. What do you see?

Renee: Well, I'm not sure what you want me to see. I mean, they're moving back and forth across the field.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, that's correct. If one team moves forward, the other moves back, that's pretty much the definition of competition, right?

Renee: At least in American football. What's your point?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, what's the most basic thing needed for that competition to happen?

Renee: Well, I suppose both teams have to be on the field.

Mr. Whittaker: More specifically, they have to compete on the same field.

Renee: Okay, so...

Mr. Whittaker: So you said science and faith are in competition with each other. But in order for that to happen, they both have to be competing on the same field.

Renee: Well, they're not.

Mr. Whittaker: No, no, no, no, no. God is not on the same field as science. God is different.

Renee: Huh. I don't follow.

Mr. Whittaker: You remember the verse above the door to the astronomy tower?

Renee: The heavens declare the glory of God.

Mr. Whittaker: Good, good. God, the Father is the reason everything exists. And every detail in the entire universe, no matter how big or small, bears his mark. But God the Father is not a being within the universe. That's why science and faith are not in competition.

Renee: Because they're not on the same field?

Mr. Whittaker: Right! Science is made by God, but it is not God. We have to think about both God and science in the right way. Gallery, return.

Renee: The right way. Meaning we've been thinking about science in the wrong way?

Mr. Whittaker: Yeah, that's right.

Renee: How so?

Mr. Whittaker: Well, you once told me, math will save the world, do you remember?

Renee: Oh, I.

Mr. Whittaker: Do you still believe that?

Renee: For the most part.

Mr. Whittaker: So, you believe that every problem has a scientific solution?

Renee: I do.

Mr. Whittaker: And you hold that the scientific method is the best way to solve them?

Renee: Not just the best way, the only way.

Mr. Whittaker: Ah. Gallery, show us a subway construction site under New York City.

Mr. Whittaker: Ah, this is quite a feat of engineering, isn't it?

Renee: I, it is.

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, display on the wall the blueprints for this tunnel's construction.

Renee: Incredible!

Mr. Whittaker: Using these blueprints, can you tell me whether the New York court system is being run justly?

Renee: What? Of course not. The question makes no sense.

Mr. Whittaker: Aha. Remember that.

Guest (Male): Hey, hey, you guys ain't supposed to be down here without hard hats.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, we're sorry.

Guest (Male): They come in orange and dark orange. Sorry if that's not fashionable enough for you.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, we were just leaving. Gallery, show us the Globe Theater in London.

Guest (Male): But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is the sun.

Mr. Whittaker: Recognize this play?

Renee: Of course, Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

Mr. Whittaker: What is it about?

Renee: Oh, it's about love and relationships and heartbreak and loss.

Mr. Whittaker: Could you tell me how Shakespeare used the scientific method to write the play?

Renee: No, 'cause he didn't use the scientific method.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, sorry, sorry. Gallery, return.

Mr. Whittaker: Now, you said the scientific method is not just the best way, but the only way to solve problems, right?

Renee: Okay, maybe not every problem. Just every important problem.

Mr. Whittaker: So the questions I asked about the nature of beauty, justice, art, and love, they aren't important?

Renee: But, well, there's no real way to answer them with certainty. Like the one you asked about justice, you can't use blueprints to answer that.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, why not?

Renee: Cause one doesn't have anything to do with the other.

Mr. Whittaker: Exactly. It's the same with the scientific method and questions of faith. The idea that you can apply the scientific method in that way isn't science, it's philosophy, something called scientism. There are all kinds of ways, literary, religious, psychological, political, by which we come to know that things are true. And yes, even factual.

Renee: I, but that's just it. We can't really know anything about faith factually. Not like we can know scientific facts.

Mr. Whittaker: Oh, that's true. Faith always contains an element of uncertainty. Well, that's what makes it faith. It's an ongoing search, but don't miss the real point here.

Renee: Which is?

Mr. Whittaker: We live and move in not one, but two worlds of knowledge: the physical world and the spiritual world. And here's the crux, they're both important. Modern science wants us to believe that because we can't know the spiritual world with the same certainty that we can know the physical world, that means the spiritual world isn't important. Or worse, doesn't even exist. But that's a lie. Because we also want to know about faith and beauty and justice and art and love and truth.

Renee: But why spend time and effort on things we can never know with certainty?

Mr. Whittaker: Because that's what makes life worth living. What gives it meaning and purpose. Take away the spiritual, and what are we? Lumps of matter? If that's the only thing we are, why ask any questions at all?

Chris: Want to contact us about the episodes you're hearing? Visit our website at adventuresinodyssey.com. Or talk to someone at Focus on the Family, call 1-800-A-FAMILY, with a parent's permission, of course. We always love hearing from you.

Mr. Whittaker: So, convinced yet?

Renee: Well, I'll admit you've made some good points. But you can't deny that the church has historically used its authority to clamp down on knowledge and discoveries it doesn't want people to know and to punish scientists like Galileo.

Mr. Whittaker: Ah, yes, yes, the most infamous example of all.

Renee: Right, imprisoned and tortured just for proving that the Earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around. He made a discovery that contradicted the Bible, and he suffered for it. Died in prison.

Mr. Whittaker: Ah, well, let's investigate that a little more, shall we? Gallery, show us where Galileo served his sentence.

Renee: This can't be right. This looks like a resort, not a prison cell.

Mr. Whittaker: Well, that's because Galileo was never imprisoned. He was exiled to this villa on the estate of a wealthy Italian ambassador.

Renee: What? Is that someone moaning? Just because a house is nice and the surroundings lovely, doesn't mean it can't be used for torture.

Mr. Whittaker: Now, Renee, I...

Renee: I'm coming! I'm coming! I'll help you! Stop torturing him!

Galileo: Oh!

Renee: Are you all right? Where are your torturers?

Galileo: What are you talking about? There's no torture here!

Renee: Well, then why are you moaning?

Galileo: I dropped my pen, and when I bent over to pick it up, I banged my elbow on the corner of the desk. Pins and needles! That's some kind of ouch, let me tell you.

Renee: Are you Galileo Galilei?

Galileo: That's me. Who are you?

Renee: Oh, I'm Renee Carter. It's an honor to meet you.

Galileo: Sure, sure, that's a fine. What do you want?

Renee: Well, to see how the church persecuted you for your scientific discoveries. Except this doesn't look much like persecution.

Galileo: It's because it's not.

Renee: But, but they still condemned you and just for telling the truth about your theory.

Galileo: It wasn't my theory, it was Copernicus's.

Renee: Oh, that's right.

Galileo: The fact is that the church never had a problem with the Copernicus's theory that the Earth move around the sun, so long as it was taught as a theory and not as a fact. I lost my pen again. Anyone sees it?

Mr. Whittaker: But telling people it was just a theory wasn't good enough for you, was it?

Galileo: No, it should have been taught as a fact. I tried everything to get the church to do that, but they said, no.

Mr. Whittaker: And there was a very good reason for that, right?

Galileo: Well, nobody had actually proven the theory.

Renee: But, but the church forbade you from proving it, didn't they?

Galileo: Not exactly. Just the opposite, in fact.

Mr. Whittaker: What did the church tell you?

Galileo: Put up or shut up.

Renee: Really?

Galileo: Well, not in those words exactly, but it said if I believe the theory is a fact, I should prove it. Moving for you, the pen has got to be here somewhere.

Renee: And you, you did prove it, right?

Galileo: No, I tried a lot of times, and I proved some things, but not for sure. But then one of my friends became a pope, Pope Urban VIII, I thought this was my chance and tried to get him to sign off on Copernicus's theory as a fact.

Renee: Let me guess. He didn't.

Galileo: No, he even writes his own paper against the theory. The lousy backstabber.

Mr. Whittaker: And that's when things really went south.

Renee: See? What happened?

Galileo: I made a fun of him in a play I wrote. Just a little joke.

Mr. Whittaker: You called him simple-minded.

Galileo: Well, if the shoe fits.

Renee: Then your condemnation was more of a personal payback than a clamp down of knowledge.

Galileo: Hey, what can I say?

Renee: But you, you were sentenced, right?

Galileo: See, I had to renounce the theory.

Mr. Whittaker: And then live out the rest of your days in this beautiful villa here in Florence.

Renee: But they also made you stop writing and experimenting, right?

Galileo: No, they let me continue to experiment all I want. I got a big laboratory downstairs. And I can write as much as I want to. At least I would if I could find that ridiculous pen.

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, return.

Renee: So Galileo didn't die in prison.

Mr. Whittaker: No, I'm afraid not. He died peacefully at that very villa in 1642 at the age of 77, surrounded by family.

Renee: Oh.

Mr. Whittaker: Some disappointed?

Renee: No, it's just, it's just so different from what I've always heard.

Mr. Whittaker: Look, the church has admitted that condemning Galileo was a mistake. And it has formally apologized for it. When was the last time you heard science apologize for its mistakes?

Renee: Fair point.

Mr. Whittaker: And the Galileo affair was just one brief moment in the history of massive support by the church for free and open scientific inquiry from believing, God-fearing scientists. Gallery, show us the Scientist Hall of Faith.

Guest (Male): Robert Boyle, chemist. Boyle, Washington Carver. Sister Mary Kenneth Keller.

Renee: Okay, okay, okay, I get the point.

Mr. Whittaker: Gallery, return.

Mr. Whittaker: There are hundreds more like that. An intricate, beautiful historical tapestry of people using science and faith to the benefit of both. At the very least, it proves that science and faith are not incompatible, right?

Renee: Huh. Well, I have to admit, you make some compelling arguments. You're very persuasive, Mr. Whittaker.

Mr. Whittaker: Persuasive enough to get you to help Camilla with her report?

Renee: I, I can do that.

Mr. Whittaker: Good, because she should be coming by anytime now.

Renee: Why do I get the feeling you knew this would happen?

Mr. Whittaker: Search me. Did you like my modifications?

Renee: I, you made Galileo kind of goofy though.

Mr. Whittaker: Yeah, I told you the program is a little glitchy.

Renee: I still don't share your beliefs, you know.

Mr. Whittaker: Ah, well that's okay. We'll keep working on it.

Chris: George Washington Carver, an American inventor, said this in the early 1900s. "I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station, through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in." And Isaac Newton, one of the greatest scientists in history, said, "All created objects which represent order and life in the universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of the Lord God." If anyone ever tries to tell you that Christianity has no place in today's science-driven world, think about the men and women who established the foundations of our modern world who say otherwise. The universe and all the scientific elements within it are filled with the evidence of God's fingerprints. Adventures in Odyssey is a presentation of Focus on the Family. "The Heavens Declare" was written and directed by Phil Lollar, with sound design by Zach Schneider, and music by Jared De Pasquale. Our executive producer was Dave Arnold. Our cast included Townsend Coleman, Andre Stoica, Fred Tattashore, and Caitlin Thorburn. And I'm Chris, hoping you'll join us again next time for more Adventures in Odyssey.