New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hey, welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we're going to be in the studio for two hours today. We hope you had a great weekend. If you didn't, call in, let's talk about it. I'm here with licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron. He's also author of the book *Understanding Your Attachment Style* and the leader of How We Love.

Dr. Alice Benton is here, too. She's a clinical psychologist and she is also an author. Her second book is called *100 Days of Biblical Family Engagement*. Yes, she's holding it up there. And she's got her marker there set to what day are you on, Alice?

Alice Benton: Day 51.

Brian Perez: Well, I know what day 52 is because you told me about that yesterday. But what can viewers and listeners learn from this book?

Alice Benton: This book was written out of my concern for my own children's vulnerability to addiction. We come from a family of Irish alcoholics, but there is also infidelity in our family history and certainly now the modern-day addiction, screen addiction.

Well, a couple of the most powerful factors to protect our children from that vulnerability to addiction is having spiritually engaged parents. For boys, having spiritually engaged fathers and particularly conversing over mealtime is a very strong protective factor against addiction.

Well, I wanted to figure out a way to make spiritual discussion easy, quick, and very accessible for me and my family. And that's why I wrote this book. I wrote it initially for my children. It gets all of us into profound spiritual discussion and replaces the "He looked at me," "She took the milk," "They spilled on me," which is our normal breakfast conversation.

Instead, on day 51, just recently, we were talking about the demonic activity in the New Testament and whether or not any of that applies to us today. And it brought out a story from my husband that at least our youngest had not heard before. In my husband's wilder North Hollywood days, he had used mushrooms.

He and a group of friends had used a combination of acid and mushrooms and he said that was one of his first experiences of very likely demonic activity. People went crazy using these drugs, stripped their clothes off, went driving erratically, got lost in the Hollywood Hills.

And of course, we know substances alter our brain activity and that was a big part of it, but he saw that people who are normal, good, kind people turning into aggressive, erratic, frightening people on this substance. And he told our children, "I do think there was demonic activity involved."

And so, I believe now it is good to align ourselves with God as much as possible, to avoid substance use because that makes us more vulnerable, and to pray against the demonic. And that's how Day 51 closes: Lord Jesus, would you teach us what is true about demons and how it applies to us? We ask for and claim your protection over our family in Jesus' name.

If it's hard for your family to have discussions about God's word and if it's hard to get the father of the family involved, this makes it easy, accessible, and it just so happens if you order it now, it will still come before Father's Day. What a gift to fathers, what a gift to their children.

Brian Perez: Again, it's called *100 Days of Biblical Family Engagement* by Dr. Alice Benton and you can find it on Amazon. I think Amazon Prime days are coming up, which is, I don't think you'll get a discount on Alice's book, but hey, if you're there shopping anyway, you might as well pick up this book as well.

Alice Benton: It's actually free on Kindle Unlimited and if you buy the ebook version, 99 cents.

Brian Perez: Nice. Now that's a deal. Yes, it is. All right, so find that on Amazon. Again, it's called *100 Days of Biblical Family Engagement* by Dr. Alice Benton. And give us a call if you want to talk to Alice or Mark Cameron. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach us this hour and all of next. If you're watching us on Facebook or YouTube, you can call in too, the numbers right there on the bottom of your screen. We can't wait to speak with you. Annie, you'll be up first when we come back.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: A new episode of the *Every Man's Battle* podcast dropped today and in it, J.J. West and Doug Barnes tackled two big recovery questions. First of all, can years of porn and voyeurism cause erectile dysfunction and can your brain really be rewired?

And the other one is, is there any evidence that a 90-day abstinence from sex with your wife actually helps recovery? You can find out the answers by listening to today's episode at newlife.com or on the New Life app or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go to the phones now. 1-800-229-3000 is our number and here is Annie in Washington, D.C. who just found out about New Life Live and is calling in. How'd you find out about us, Annie?

Annie: A friend of mine referred to the program actually because I was looking for a Christian person who can be a counselor for my daughter. So they suggested New Life and that's how I found out about the program.

Brian Perez: Well, praise God. Thank you so much for calling in. What is it that we can help you with?

Annie: Yes, I have a question. I have been having anxiety almost I would say all my life maybe and now that I'm getting older, I feel that it's getting worse and it's especially when it comes to health issues, like if I go to the doctor, if my labs are not within the normal range, I would be worried that something might be wrong with me. So I'm trying to see what can you guys advise on how to be free from that because now my kids are older and I don't want to transfer this type of behavior to them.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, Annie, you said that you've been struggling with anxiety all your life. Where do you think that comes from? Because anxiety is learned. So typically what I find when somebody is an anxious person, they've learned that from childhood and either they have had a parent who is anxious themselves because I hear you talking about you don't want your kids to learn that from you, so you recognize that you may have learned that yourself.

Or we have a parent whose emotions that we end up managing because they're depressed or they're angry. Where do you think your anxiety came from?

Annie: I grew up with my grandparents. I'm originally from Central America and I remember growing with my grandparents, everything was like if there was going to be a thunderstorm, I remember that we couldn't walk around. You had to sit down and then you had to cover your head because, you know, lightning and all of that. And I think that took an effect on my life growing up. And I don't know if that's the reason why I am the way I am right now.

Mark Cameron: I think that's a great insight that you got there. So it sounds like whoever made you do that, your grandmother, your grandfather, they were highly anxious. They were overprotective. They were worried and that's what naturally happens with kids is kids look to their caregivers as the person being able to identify danger even when they don't identify danger.

As a young kid, you probably weren't thinking about all of those things until your grandparents started to make you aware. And when we have a caregiver who is highly anxious like that, it makes us hypervigilant and we get on the lookout for danger. And that's what anxiety is. Anxiety is an anticipation of a negative future outcome.

And so we end up also then feeling that in our body because our body starts alerting us to that. So I'm a big proponent of being able to understand your story, understand the origins of where that came from and being able to talk through that. And so that helps you understand what is happening when you have those feelings on the inside.

And then also with anxiety, we've got to retrain our bodies. And we retrain our body through exposure. So learning to face whatever it is that we are anxious and worried about and learning to try and have a different response to it. And when it works out and things don't go the terrible way that we think it was going to go, that reforms the pathway in our brains and we start to slowly be able to overcome it. But I think being able to look at the origins of where that anxiety comes from will help you in those moments to be able to recognize the place that you're reacting from.

Alice Benton: Annie, I just want to support what Mark said, that I also see that as people process trauma and heal from trauma, and there's small T trauma and there's big T trauma, but all of it affects us, especially if your grandparents or your parents weren't able to teach you how to manage emotions. And it seems like they just didn't talk about it, which is common for most of us.

I have a similar concern that you do for your children. I've already given my daughter anxiety. She already has it and she's only 10 years old. I know that I've both modeled and spiritually I gave her an inheritance and genetically I gave her an inheritance. I also passed on the propensity for alcoholism.

I didn't want to pass that on to my children, but we have little control over those inheritances that we give to our children. But what we can control is what we do with them now. And so I have had a conversation with each of my children to say, "These are some of our family patterns that came from my family of origin. I participated in them as well and now you're more likely to repeat my mistakes."

But I want to ask for your forgiveness that you have such an imperfect sinful mother. And I'm going to show you how I deal with my propensities, my propensity towards alcoholism and towards anxiety and towards lying. And so by modeling for you, my children, that I'm in recovery, I can't fix all this on my own. I've tried my best and I still fall short.

I need help. And this is how I get help from therapy, from an antidepressant that treats my anxiety, from being in an ongoing recovery group where I admit to my spiritual sisters, I'm anxious again, this is how I'm dealing with it. And then by asking my children, what are you struggling with? What emotions are difficult for you?

I gave you some of that, some of that's my fault. Those are healing conversations, Annie. And I've come to believe, because God is so redemptive, my children actually have a better mom as an imperfect mom, even though I wish I'd been perfect, because they're imperfect too. And so we're in it together. We're all broken and we're trying to figure it out together. And so you and I, we can turn our ugly anxiety into a superpower to minister to our children as we're willing to be in recovery and share that process with them. What do you think, Annie?

Annie: No, I think it sounds wonderful and taking the decision to actually look for help and getting a therapist that I am going to start hopefully soon from New Life, I think it will be very beneficial for me. And I appreciate everything that you guys have said and I hope I can see myself in a different going in a different path in the future.

Alice Benton: Annie, do you already see anxiety in your children? And if not, what would you say is the main uncomfortable emotion your children struggle with?

Annie: I think I see anxiety on all of them. Well, the first one already married, so he's it's a different story now, but the ones that still live with us in the house, I think that they overthink about little things like that and sometimes, you know, it makes me feel guilty because I feel that it's something that they have learned from me because my husband is not like that at all.

Alice Benton: And if you told your children, "I realize that we all overthink and I probably started that in our family and in some ways it benefits us, but it also hurts us and I want to bring this out in the open. I want to apologize to you all that I'm an overthinker, I'm an anxious overthinker." How would your children respond to that?

Annie: Well, they already know that I am like that and then they always keep on telling me, "Mom, you don't have to think that way." Like if I'm worried about something, he'd say, "Look at the positive side of it, don't be overthinking that oh maybe it's this, maybe it's that," and feeling frustrated not being able to function because I still will go to work, but I will be searching online and getting more anxiety out of the things that I read or I see.

Alice Benton: Sure, you can kind of spiral and you over-research and that makes your anxiety worse, especially about medical problems. I'm going to point something out that I see your children doing and it's loving, you've probably done it for them too, but it's not effective in the long term. When someone is anxious and we are just told by the other people, "Oh just stop, come on, stop being anxious, you're making a big deal, it's nothing to worry about."

They're trying to comfort us, but it actually shuts us down from being honest about what we're really afraid of. And what you'll learn from your New Life therapist most likely is the comfort circle, which is a way to draw out a person's fear rather than correcting them too quickly, which shuts down emotional processing.

So I want you to surprise your children by letting them know, "You know what I've just learned? If we can all talk about overthinking without trying to fix each other or make it okay too quickly, we'll actually do better and we'll be able to overthink less in the long run." But it has to do with saying, "Oh, you're overthinking? Well, tell me more. I want to understand that. What's that like? What are you overthinking about?"

Drawing out anxiety in a safe conversation is more effective than telling someone, "Stop doing that, it's okay, you're overthinking." I want you to take this surprising information to your children and see how they respond to that.

Brian Perez: I'm glad you brought up the comfort circle because that's part of How We Love and Mark is here today and he leads How We Love. So what are some things that we can learn from the comfort circle? I love what Alice just said about you don't want to just jump on somebody and criticize them right away for something they're doing wrong, but you kind of ease into it.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, I love a lot of things about what Alice just said here. And the comfort circle is a structure to have a conversation where there's a clear listener and there's a clear speaker and we take turns to hear one another out because Alice is 100% right. When you try to change someone's emotion, you can't be connecting with it. You can't do both things at the same time and so when we try to change someone's emotion, we are actually dismissing their internal experience and we're not connecting with them.

So being able to give someone space to be able to express what they're feeling, there's a well-known phrase and you may know it Annie, it's called, "If you can name it, you can tame it." And what that really means is the neuroscience shows us that when we can put language to emotions our brains start to integrate and we're able then to process what we're feeling a lot better.

And so being able to have that, this is where I was guiding you before, to be able to tell your story to understand where it came from, and I love what Alice is saying to be able to open up that conversation with your kids and being able to ask that question: How does my worry affect you? You'll start talking about anxiety, but it will be in a different way. It will be in a way that invites them to be able to express and talk about that.

And I want to help free you a little bit too, is I don't think you're 100% responsible for all of their anxiety. Sure, I think you do have or you have as their parent had a big impact on them about the way that they process that emotion, but there's a lot of things in this world that are designed to cause us anxiety including our phones, the way that they buzz and they go off, you know, the companies want us to get anxious about that and to be checking it. So you can't be a perfect parent but you can be a growing parent and that's what I love about Alice's book that she's talking about here because that encourages the conversation to happen.

Alice Benton: Annie, a lot of the verses in my *100 Days of Biblical Family Engagement* have to do with anxiety because I know I struggle with it, I know some of my children do and I want to teach them what God has to say about it. And he has a lot to say about how to handle anxiety.

Brian Perez: I think the verse that comes to mind for a lot of people is "Be anxious for nothing." So right away when we see that we think, "Oh, it's a sin to be anxious. I'm doing something wrong. I'm what do I do? And I'm always anxious so I'm always in sin." And then that leads to more anxiety. So what do you tell people who read that verse and just take it at face value and just say there's something wrong with me?

Mark Cameron: Well, the Bible was written for us, it's not written to us and we've got to understand that. It was written in an ancient language to an ancient people so we've got to learn to understand that. Jesus was anxious. In the Garden of Gethsemane right before his death, he was anxious to the point that he sweat blood.

But what did he need in that moment? He invited his followers, "Be with me, comfort me, stay awake with me." So we know that when we're stressed, the best thing that we can do for someone is be with them, connect with them, and we know that someone's calming experience can actually calm our own physical bodily experience.

Alice Benton: And to realize our limitation. We cannot live up to the ideals of Scripture: be perfect, do not sin. Oops, I messed that one up many, many times, thousands of times. So that's why we need a savior because we can't live up to the standards of the Bible.

Brian Perez: Annie, thanks so much for calling today and give your friend a hug from us for referring you to New Life Live.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: So as we were discussing with our previous caller, a lot of anxiety is something that could stem from something you learned in your childhood. Maybe not purposely, but it's just something that you saw your parents model, your grandparents model. And the same is true with marriage.

We go into marriage thinking, "Oh, this is going to be wonderful. I'm going to be with this person for the next 50, 60, 70 years." And then those things from the past kind of start coming up and from both of you. So now there's almost like there's twice as much going on. So that's why you need the Intimacy in Marriage Intensive. You can find out all about it on our website, newlife.com, or you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

The next one is happening the weekend of July 24th in Washington, D.C. Just you and your spouse with a bunch of other couples there, married and engaged, who just want the best for their marriage. So find out all about it at newlife.com/IIM or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

Alice Benton: And it's important for our listeners to know it's for all of the spectrum of quality of marriage. Meaning it's for those who have a great marriage and want a boost and it's for those who are on the verge of divorce and are doing a last-ditch attempt. But it's also for any quality of marriage in between. It will help everyone that can make it to our intensive.

Brian Perez: newlife.com or 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And if you want to talk to Alice and Mark today, call in to 1-800-229-3000. We'll be here for two hours. And Jeremy is up next. He's in Bloomington, Indiana watching us on YouTube. So we'll wave hi to Jeremy. Thanks so much for calling in today to New Life Live.

Jeremy: Howdy guys. How are we doing today?

Brian Perez: Doing well, thanks.

Jeremy: Hey, I was wondering, I have a lot of times where I get emotional about nobody really caring. And I was wondering if there was a way that I could possibly stop that or if you guys have any ideas on what I could use for coping skills and everything about that?

Alice Benton: Jeremy, to hear that the recurring thought you have and feeling is "nobody really cares." We can absolutely help you with this. I would guess that comes from feeling injured in that way by close people to you in your life. Who has treated you like they don't really care?

Jeremy: Yeah, it feels that way and then all of a sudden I realize that it's not true. I don't know if it's something that the devil's trying to put into my mind or exactly what it is.

Alice Benton: That's a good question. You wonder where the thought comes from. Tell me who in your life treated you in such a way that told you they didn't care about you?

Jeremy: My mom. My whole family actually in general. It seems like whenever I have situations going on, my mom especially does not care. It seems like whenever she has an issue she comes to me, but when I have an issue and go to her, she's not there to help in any way. So yeah, she's taking advantage of me basically, trying to get me to help her, and then when it comes to her helping me she won't do it. It's always been that way.

Alice Benton: It's been a real one-sided relationship. She takes but she doesn't reciprocate and you give. Now, you know that historically that's been true with your mom and still is today, and yet you also are able to counter that belief "nobody really cares" because you know some people care. Who is one person who shows you care today?

Jeremy: Friends of mine care about me and everything even though my biological family does not. And I'm glad about that. I was adopted by my aunt and she passed away in 2004 and it has really affected me since then because I've lived on my own since then and have not had much of a relationship at all with my mom actually.

Brian Perez: And what happened that you moved from your mother's care to being adopted by your aunt? How'd that come about?

Jeremy: I was adopted when I was a baby by my aunt actually. My aunt adopted me.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, so your relationship with your mom has really been distant then. It sounds like she wasn't there for you all the time and then it sounds like she would call you up maybe when she had problems and issues but when you called her she wasn't really available for you.

Jeremy: That's 100% correct, yes.

Mark Cameron: Now Jeremy, you said you get emotional. A lot of people use that word to describe either they get angry or they get teary. Which one do you get?

Jeremy: Emotional like cry. I had an issue last night where I started crying and everything and wondering why people didn't care about me and everything like my family and everything, but I realize now that they really do.

Mark Cameron: That makes sense. So what's happening is when you realize that they do care about you, it's something called perceived abandonment or perceived rejection. So in the moment it feels like they don't even though logically you know that they do. And so what's happening with you is it's just a rekindling of an old neural network.

Your subconsciously being reminded of how your mom neglected you or rejected you or abandoned you and that makes sense. And so we get hurt in relationship and we're also healed in relationship. And so being able to recognize what's happening in that moment, I'm glad that you can counter it and say they do care about me, but also then I would add in recognizing "Oh, this is the feeling that I have with my mom that's coming up for me again."

It doesn't mean I'm a bad person, but I can be healed. And being able to, if you have someone in your life who you can share that with and talk that through, that's how the healing will occur. So we're coming to a break here, but we're going to see if we can get you in touch with a counselor if you're not in touch with one. And I'm sure Alice has got a couple more things to say, too.

Alice Benton: Maybe at least one. I do want to address your concern that the enemy might be involved. I had a discussion with my children recently about the enemy, but we'll come back to that.

Brian Perez: All right, so Jeremy, stay on the phone and we'll continue our conversation with you and Jan, we'll talk to you next as well and everyone else who calls in. 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Male): Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because everyone matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433 or newlife.com/99for1. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: And let's go back to Jeremy in Bloomington, Indiana who's watching us on YouTube and who called in with this feeling that nobody cares about what it is that he's going through. He's always the one that goes out of his way to help people including his mom, but then Mom doesn't check up on him. So he's wondering if the enemy is throwing darts at him to make him think like this. What do you say, Alice?

Alice Benton: Jeremy, whenever we have strong and especially overwhelming emotion like anxiety, I think it's good to wonder these four things: Is this historical? Am I reminded right now of how my mom treated me or of the loss of my aunt? Am I reminded of old injuries?

The second one is: Is this current? Has someone recently hurt me or did I interpret someone's actions as not caring about me? And it's usually a mix of the two, history bleeds into the present and it exacerbates current-day emotion.

But the third goes right to what you had asked about: Is the enemy involved? And I think very few of us learned to wonder when we have problems in life, whether emotional, relational, or otherwise, is the enemy involved? But I think it's a very wise question to ask because the Bible points out that the enemy can be active and can have a lot of impact on our life, whether it's turning up difficult emotions, stirring up discord amongst people, or causing other problems.

Now, I think it's wise to not always 100% of the time give the enemy credit, so to speak, for problems because we just live in a broken world with broken people and I don't think there's a demon lurking behind every problem. But I do think it's wise to pray against the demonic. Jesus did that. He modeled that for us.

If we pray against the demonic and nothing demonic was involved, it doesn't hurt anything. But if we don't imagine demons could be involved in our life and we never pray against them, we're missing out on some of the protection that Jesus modeled to his apostles. So I think it's good to ask but not let that fear concern take over our lives.

And then the last one is: Do you have a care deficit? Now you have loving friends around you, but it's good to wonder, are you able to receive care? And I'm gently going to point something out to you. I hear a high energy within you and anxious people often also have high energy.

So some of the times that we three were trying to care for you, you kind of would speak over us because you have excitement to share what's going on in your life. That's a good excitement to have, but it made me wonder, are you able to receive love, care, and concern? Or in your energy do you sometimes talk over the very way people are trying to care for you?

And for those of us who have a care deficit from our childhood, we're actually not comfortable being cared for now, even though we desperately want it as adults. So we can unintentionally push care away at the very moment that it's happening.

And one example might be if someone tells me, "Oh, you're a great friend. I really enjoy being around you." I might reply with, "Yeah, well, but I also don't answer the phone frequently, I don't respond to texts," because my negative shortcomings are more accessible to my mind than my positive attributes. So I'm unintentionally pushing away the very care God might be trying to send me. So please consider that.

Brian Perez: Mark, would your book *Understanding Your Attachment Style* help Jeremy?

Mark Cameron: Yeah, I think it would be really helpful for him especially with all the loss that Jeremy you have had in your life. Your mom leaving you, and often times people get adopted for a variety of different reasons, but it still doesn't diminish the fact that the child who is left has that sense of abandonment because we all want to know where we come from and who gave birth to us and why they separated from us.

And so I think my book can help you understand your story and how that has shaped your attachment style and shaped you to have a propensity for anxiety because anxiety is one of the attachment styles. There's actually two anxious attachment styles, a pleaser attachment style and a vacillator attachment style, and the vacillator often does what you explained in there Alice, they sabotage the very connection that they want.

But when we can recognize these things when they're happening in the moments, you can do what you are already starting to do here Jeremy, where you're challenging it. You're saying, "I know that they're not abandoning me, but I feel that on the inside." But being able to explore the questions that Alice is asking and they're very similar to some of the questions that I explain in the book about developing the observing self where you do ask those very things: Is this historical? What is happening around me that reminds me of that history? And how am I reacting and is that similar to what I learned when I was younger? That helps you be able to provide that container for yourself in that moment so that you can then practice the growth goals, which I have in the book, which are the reconditioning steps.

Brian Perez: Jeremy, order your copy of *Understanding Your Attachment Style* from the newlife.com store. And you know what? We also want to send you a free tip sheet. It's called "Eight Things to Do on a Bad Day." So stay on hold and we'll send you the tip sheet. This is New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000 is our number and now we're going to talk to Jan who is in Richmond, Virginia listening on WXTR. Hello, Jan. Welcome to New Life Live. Jan, hello.

Jan: Hi.

Brian Perez: Hi, how can we help you today?

Jan: Well, first I'd like to say I listen to y'all every day and thoroughly enjoy it. Thank you. My question is: is there anywhere in the Bible that says that you can have a premonition of your death?

Brian Perez: And why do you ask this question, Jan?

Jan: Well, a few years ago, my son and I were sitting in the living room and we were just talking normal conversation. And just out of the blue, he says, "Mom, I'm not afraid to die." I said, "Why are you talking about dying?" He said, "I just thought I'd let you know I'm not afraid to die." He says, "I know that when I die I'm going to heaven," and he says, "I know that I will miss you." Two days later, he was killed in an accident.

Brian Perez: Oh my goodness, Jan. How old was he?

Jan: 18.

Brian Perez: Oh, wow. How heartbreaking. We're so, so sorry for that loss.

Jan: It is heartbreaking because I was a paramedic on the rescue squad.

Brian Perez: Oh, on his rescue squad?

Jan: Well, on the rescue squad I was on. I was paramedic on the rescue squad and I was off work that day and I took the call for my son. The state trooper and I got there at the same time and I looked to my right and it was my son. I do not remember a funeral. All I can see and flashback is him lying in the field. Now, how would he know that he was dying, going to die?

Alice Benton: And Jan, what would it mean to you if the Bible does support the idea of premonitions?

Jan: Well, I know he was ready. He was saved. And one night I was dreaming, and I guess people think I'm crazy or they don't believe it, but I had Jesus to come up into my dream and if I could have touched him, I could. And then my son come up right beside him. If there was any way that I could have taken a picture, I would have, but I couldn't.

Mark Cameron: Well, you know the fantastic thing about our minds, Jan, is that we can take pictures. We can take pictures in our minds. Do you remember that dream? Are you able to pull it up in your mind?

Jan: Yes, I do all the time.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, and so that can be a blessing and a curse at the same time like you said, when because you were on that call when you went to your son, you remember him being in the ditch, but then you have that secondary picture that came afterwards where you see Jesus and your son together. And I'm sure he is healed and whole in that picture.

I think it's a blessing that you were able to get that second picture in such a vivid way like that because not many people do. And I believe what you're saying. You said many people might not believe you. I believe that that happened and I believe that that was Jesus giving you that picture to replace that traumatic image that you have. We want to talk to you a little bit more about the trauma that you might be experiencing, but you can hear the music. We're about to hit a break here. But we're going to see if we can get you in touch with a counselor if you're not in touch with one. And I'm sure Alice has got a couple more things to say, too. Maybe at least one.

Alice Benton: I do want to address your concern that the enemy might be involved. I had a discussion with my children recently about the enemy, but we'll come back to that.

Brian Perez: All right, Jan, stay on the phone and we'll continue our conversation with you here on New Life Live. It is break time and the phone lines are still open. They're going to be open for the rest of this hour and all of next. We've got lots of lines open right now for you to call in at 1-800-229-3000 and we would love for you to share your story and see how we can help today on New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: I want to remind you that we've got a matching gift challenge going on right now here at New Life up to $300,000. Thank you to everyone who has already contributed towards the match and if you haven't yet, you can do it right now by texting the word MATCH to 28950 or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or go to our website newlife.com/match.

Thank you so much for whatever you can do. You've heard the people that we've helped so far today and we're going to help a lot more this week thanks to you. So give right now at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text MATCH to 28950. Just before the break, we were speaking with Jan and Jan, you had a couple of minutes to think about the question that Alice asked. And what was the question for people just joining us?

Alice Benton: Was it helpful, Jan, that your son shared his premonition?

Jan: No, it was a shock.

Alice Benton: And did it lead to regret that you didn't act differently because of what he told you those two days before he passed away?

Jan: Yes.

Alice Benton: What do you wish you had done?

Jan: Asked more questions. It was so hard. It was so hard and I don't remember a funeral. I don't remember burying my son.

Alice Benton: And does that scare you that you have no recollection?

Jan: Yes, because I still look for him to come home.

Alice Benton: And what do you wish you had asked him?

Jan: Why did he think he was dying, going to die? What was going on? Was somebody after him? There are multiple things you feel like you could have done and should have done and a part of you doesn't even accept that he is no longer alive. You're still looking for him and it's understandable that you're scared by the lack of memory of these very important events.

Jan, I think you have unresolved trauma about this. And of course we never fully get over the grief of the loss of a son so young. But then on top of that, for you to have been the paramedic at the scene, that altered you. And I think your trauma has been under-treated since you lost your son. Yes, you agree?

So it's a good question to wonder: is this biblical? And I would say we see evidence of predictions of the future in the Bible. They're not common, they're few and far between, but there are predictions. And we know that dreams can be influenced by God. And not all dreams are, and I also think that's rare, but it can and does happen.

And so I would look at whether or not it was a gift to have the dream about Jesus and your son because all good gifts come from God. But it's difficult to look at your regret and that's where I think further treatment will serve you because being able to work through the regret, the anger at yourself that you didn't do more, but then also working on receiving God's forgiveness and forgiving yourself, that will help you begin to accept the reality of the loss of your son and the reality of those blank spots in your memory. That's a common feature of trauma.

Mark Cameron: Jan, how long ago did this happen?

Jan: 28 years ago.

Mark Cameron: 28 years ago. I think you're still in the process of grief here. Bargaining is one of the stages of grief and oftentimes it looks like this: it's the trying to make sense of what happened. Why did this happen? How could it have happened? And just even that physical response you have just where your mind mentally expects him just to walk through the door again.

That shows that you haven't gone through all of the stages of grief and like Alice said, it's not like it's something that you quote-unquote "get over." I don't think you're ever going to get over this, but you can move through the grief. And so I think you're stuck in bargaining is what I would say.

So being able to recognize when you're throwing these questions out there, it's not like they're wrong to do, just recognize that "I'm in this stage, I'm still in this, I'm still stuck." And how do I get to shift and move to the next stage? And I would encourage you if you haven't already to attend a grief group.

Being able to be in a group with others who understand what, of course, your experience is going to be not all exactly the same, but grief is similar for everybody. Being in a group with others where you can share your pain and what's going on and other people can empathize with you and maybe they're in the same stage as you or maybe they're in the stage beyond that, that group, that corporate comfort can help get you to the next stage.

And something else I would recognize for you because again, you were on scene there and it was so traumatic, I would recommend something called EMDR which stands for Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing. It's a type of therapy to address trauma. And it helps us identify, go back to those moments to recognize where we're still holding them in our body, the negative thought that we have and Alice put words to it here, which I think is probably "I didn't do more" and learning how do I shift that and change that to a more positive thought that I can accept that can shift me out of that negative thinking and out of the guilt and out of the grief here. So I recommend trying those two things and we can put you in touch with a grief group and with a counselor who does EMDR.

Brian Perez: Jan, who do you have in your life that you can talk to about this?

Jan: My family doctor told me that due to the trauma that I saw, my subconscious mind will not allow me to remember a funeral or anything.

Mark Cameron: And I think that could be true. Our minds can compartmentalize when things become so overwhelming for us. It can put things away because it's so traumatic for us to go there. But we subconsciously have reminders of it even if we don't consciously remember the event. And that's the beauty of EMDR, is it helps us sometimes we've got to go back and we do have to relive in a moment and remember what happened, but what the type of therapy does is it helps us be able to integrate our brains and shift that memory in the brain to a longer-term storage where it's not triggering you emotionally on a daily basis.

Brian Perez: What do you say to someone who might say, "Well, I don't know if I want to relive that"?

Mark Cameron: Well, what I would say to someone, and that's a common objection, is that you are reliving it. You're reliving it on a subconscious level. And so being able to go back there and process through it in a safe place, in a place of containment, and in a place of structure, again, it's the neuroscience shows us as it shifts that memory in the brain to that longer-term storage where it desensitizes us to that. It's not that Jan is going to forget what happened, but she won't be triggered and that's what I'm talking about when I talk about the process of moving through grief.

Alice Benton: And Jan, I hope you'll be able to attend my grief webinar coming up next month. Because I just think not only about the incredible loss of your son, but working as a paramedic, the first responders I've worked with, the firefighters I've had the honor to work with, you all face horrific death and injury as you serve these people that you come to on probably a daily basis.

And you have to get good at compartmentalizing so that you can survive and continue. And that's why so many of us get stuck in the grief process. We don't have the time and the energy to pull out the grief and face it and deal with it. We've got to continue on. But the long-term costs we pay if we don't resolve the grief are so high. And so in the webinar we'll be teaching you how to proactively enter grief in a healing way rather than the repetitive suffering you go through on your own that is not helpful and not healing.

Brian Perez: Jan, stay on hold, we'll send you a registration for that webinar and everyone else you can sign up for it by texting the word WEBINAR to 28950. And we're going to keep the phone lines open. 1-800-229-3000 is our number and we'll be back on New Life Live.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Want to remind you that we've got a matching gift challenge going on right now here at New Life up to $300,000. Thank you to everyone who has already contributed towards the match and if you haven't yet, you can do it right now by texting the word MATCH to 28950 or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or go to our website newlife.com/match. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. You've heard the people that we've helped so far today and we're going to help a lot more this week thanks to you. So give right now at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text MATCH to 28950.

Guest (Male): Thank you so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.