FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

We've put so much hope in this idol of comfort and ease. Right. If things are comfortable and easy, then it's good. And if it's hard, it's not from the Lord.

Right. So there may be situations that we need to rescue our children from.

So it's not really about a formula, but more about that abiding with Christ.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the reality relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.

We got Adam and Chelsea Griffin back with us in the studio. It's been a great two days. Let's dive into day three and learn a little bit more about applying the fruit of the Spirit to our parenting.

I mean, what's that look like in your home? Because I know a lot of our listeners and watchers are Christian parents thinking, "I want to raise my sons and daughters to be men and women of God."

Speaker 4

Amen.

Speaker 3

And I know that's your dream and prayer as well. So what does family discipleship look like? I know you talk about it. You have a podcast about it. So this is your lane.

What's that look like? Because so many are like, do we get up every day and read the Bible? Do we do devos? Do we go on mission? I mean, there's so many different ideas.

And I know this book is not as practical that way, but I know you do it every day. We do.

Speaker 1

Yeah. We have a lot of categories for this and we talk about it all the time, but we kind of break down family discipleship into time moments and milestones and modeling. That's the fourth one.

But the time that we're talking about is an intentional time. And this makes sense in every other area of life. If you're trying to get through med school, you set aside some time, right, to study and read. If you're trying to become a great basketball player, surely you practice, right?

I say that because as we share these ideas with people, we get a lot of pushback for some of this, that it's too hard or too much. A lot of times, this pushback comes from people that we know take their kids for one-on-one private batting lessons to get better at baseball. But then when we say to spend...

Speaker 3

A lot of money.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

More than a scholarship is worth.

Speaker 1

That's right. So we know that people are willing to do costly things for their children.

Speaker 4

That's right.

Speaker 1

And God forbid we would want to bring an offering to the Lord that cost us nothing. Right, right. It's a costly thing to follow Jesus and yet at the same time, I just don't think it's that costly to, to read the Bible with your children every day.

Speaker 2

So you're spending time reading the Bible with your kids.

Speaker 4

For us, we've done it every night where before our kids go to bed, it's a very simple formula. When they were little and now that they're teenagers, it's we read, we pray, we sing.

Every night we read something from the scripture, and if we're not there, like right now, we're out of town because we're here meeting with you guys. There's a person in our house; they're going to read, pray, and sing with. It's a babysitter.

It's a read, pray, and sing. We tell the babysitter, "Hey, we're Christians. So before our kids go to bed, they read, pray, and sing." You can join them if you want, but they'll read, pray, and sing together.

Speaker 2

What do you sing?

Speaker 1

We sing. I, I got this summer, I got a, a new book with a lot of lyrics to like very kind of classic worship songs. I love that thing. That's cool. But a lot of times we sing the benediction from our church. Sometimes we sing the doxology, sometimes Jesus loves me. A lot of times we let the kids pick or one of us just begins a song and everybody joins in. Adam plays guitar. Sometimes we get to have like a little extended time of worship.

But again, I don't think this is a very costly thing to open up the word of God together. Read something that God has said which he says would be good for us. Right? So again, this is, this is a good thing. This is a blessing. This is not really some sacrifice that takes something away from you. It gives.

Speaker 3

Now You've got a 13 year old. Is there any pushback?

Speaker 1

Because we've been doing this since he was a baby. If he wanted to push back, I think he would think that resistance is futile.

But honestly, sometimes our kids are annoyed because they were having fun; they were doing something else. There's football on TV.

Speaker 4

But that's the cost part, right? We're not saying this is not gonna cost us anything. We're actually saying this is great. It's gonna cost us something.

That's the Abel and Cain moment, right? Where Cain's going, I'd like to worship God but not have. And Abel's going, I would gladly let it cost me.

And God looks at Abel's sacrifice and goes, that's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about worship.

Speaker 2

Adam,

I think one of our sons, Austin, picked up your book because their company is your agent.

But I remember he started singing like he would always pray and they would pray and read the Bible. I remember him singing the benediction and I'm like, this is cool. I bet he got that idea from you guys.

Speaker 4

Maybe.

Speaker 2

And then what happens is when we watch their kids, they haven't told us to sing, but their kids will say, "Nani, you need to sing the song to us."

Isn't that cool though? That's awesome that it just becomes, this is you impacting our family. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Praise God. Well, it is what the Lord likes, the reason we do it. We didn't come up with it, right? Like, the Lord called his people to be singing people. And so we sing because he's worthy of it. We sing and we read scripture because he's worthy of it. And it's good for our kids. I love the way you described that, Chelsea. In our culture, there are a lot of things we would say, "Well, that cost makes sense." We want our kid to make varsity, so, yeah, he's going to go to practice every day. He's going to be in the gym every day.

Well, I really want my kids to follow Jesus. And while I'm not saying they can't also make the varsity team, I am saying this is so important to us that it's going to be something we dedicate time to every day. For my 13-year-old, Dave, we invite him to men's Bible study. He goes to a men's Bible study with me. Our church does men's Bible study, and I want him to be a man of God. He comes to our Bible study, and it helps that two of the men that lead it are football-playing men. One was in the NFL, and one was a D1 football player. Since my son loves sports, he loves learning the Bible from them. He's hearing about the Bible from them.

But I'm calling him up to things that many other 13-year-olds are not doing. And that's not to shame other families; it's because I'm going, "What else could I do with this kid?" I want him to follow Jesus, and I want to invest in him every opportunity I can. So I'm calling him up to things. That's another example of the intentional time we're doing. We also have moments that we just try to work into the everyday conversations, and then we do milestones—some more significant experiences.

I just took my 10-year-old on what we call the "fourth quarter of boyhood" trip, where when they turn 10, I take them out, and we do something just the two of us. We went horseback riding through a canyon, and then we sat down with a whiteboard. I walked through every biological insult, cuss word I could think of with him on the whiteboard to make sure he knows what all these words mean and that he knows his dad is an expert on curses and is happy to be available if he wants to ask about them. Then we talk about biblical marriage and biblical manhood.

This part of our family rhythm has been that when our kids turn 10, this is what we do. It's more significant than just reading, praying, and singing every night, but it's built on that same idea. This is what the Lord has tasked us with, and we're trying to do a good job. But like we said at the beginning, sometimes we'll talk about this, and people go, "Well, our family's too busy." And we'll go, "Well, the Griffins don't do this because we have spare time." We're not going, "Hey, you know what? We got some extra time. What do we want to do tonight?"

Some people will tell us, "Well, that's just a lot." And we'll go, "Yeah, it is a lot. Isn't that great? It costs our family something. We're going to do this."

Speaker 2

It's costly. You used that word a lot. You're right. Everything we do, there's a cost to it. Yes, everything. And if you want to be great at anything, something, there's a cost to it and it hurts and you don't like it.

So I'm thinking of that, because what happens is when our kids say, "I don't want to do it. I don't want to go to church." And then we're like, "Well, they don't like it." Well, it's costly. That's going to be my new word.

Speaker 4

That's right. Well, the kid gets set up as king, where they get to decide what we're going to do. They're going to do all kinds of things. Chelsea and I just met with this lady. We were planning her father's funeral. It was kind of a sad lament moment. We were asking about her dad's spiritual life, and she said, well, my dad always told us we decided a long time ago whether we're going to church or not. We don't need to get up on Sunday and decide. We already decided.

And that's the way I think our family has thought about many things of the Lord too. We don't have to think about, are we going to read, pray, or sing before we go to bed? That's a decision that's already been made. Are we going to study the Bible together at church with our church on Sunday morning? Yeah, we don't have to wonder. Hey, is church meeting today? No, it's Sunday morning. We're going. Plus, dad works there, so we're definitely going to go.

But some of the response to this, Wilson's, is that, like, that leads to the shame, that leads to the guilt, that leads to the feeling of inadequacy. That's what kind of led to us writing "Good News for Parents" as well, saying, hey, I get how this feels. When we talk about discipling our kids or we talk about anything in parenting, sometimes the feeling that rises up in us is a fairly negative one. Well, the Lord has something to say about that as well.

Speaker 2

I would say probably the top three things that has changed our marriage the most is when we have led a small group.

Not just being in a small group, like, that's amazing, but when we have led a small group, our marriage changed more than anything else.

Speaker 3

I mean, anytime you have couples in your home or you're in their home talking about marriage, your marriage is going to get better. And, you know, the thing we always want if we're thinking, "I'm going to have couples in and I want to help them," is I need help helping them.

So guess what? That's what we're about. Family Life has tools to help you lead a small group. We call it our small group kits. In our workbooks, they are plug and play, and they are on sale right now, 25% off through the end of the month.

You can go to familylifetoday.com and get any one of the studies that you'd like to lead. And again, it's plug and play. We'll help you change the world.

Speaker 2

And who would have thought that being on mission together is one of the things that makes our marriages better? You know who thought of that? God thought of that. It just happens. It's the gospel again. Familylifetoday.com.

Speaker 3

So many parents now, when their child is going through a struggle—whatever it is, whether they're not on the starting five in basketball, not getting the grade they think their child should get, or facing issues in a peer group that isn't accepting them—seem to rush in to pull that child out and get them safe and comfortable.

You know, in college sports now, it's like, "I don't like my coach. I just transfer; I'll go to another school." Sometimes that's a good move, but it raises the question: instead of struggling, somebody just took my job, and I'm out of here. The parents are like, "Clapping. Way to go."

How do you navigate that? You know?

Speaker 4

Do you let your childbox dig?

Speaker 3

Do you let them struggle?

Speaker 4

You're just digging right now.

Speaker 1

Dig into my soapbox.

Speaker 4

About the. But it's what parents always come back and say. When you talked about buckling your kids into the car seat. Oh, yeah, this is the microcosm for the parent of the little kid.

Speaker 1

That is true.

Speaker 4

That is exactly what you're talking about. Talk about that.

Speaker 1

With our kids, I think, as when they were little, I just again, when I think about the kind of men I want them to be, we want them to be capable and competent.

And really, that's where confidence comes from in the field I work in. A lot of people, a lot of young nurses that we try to train end up quitting because they feel so incompetent.

Their parents have rescued them from every hard thing. We have moms call us about job interviews at the hospital for their kids. I'm not joking.

Speaker 4

I'm sure you've had moms call coaches, man, why are you doing this?

Speaker 1

So then when it's like, hey, this is real. This is a real job, and there's a real responsibility, they feel so easily crushed because they know I've never done anything hard without assistance, and no one's ever expected anything of me.

Speaker 4

And.

Speaker 1

And so we're not helping our children when we do that. We are not blessing them. I think the real misstep there is that we've put so much hope in this idol of comfort and ease, right? If things are comfortable and easy, then it's good. And if it's hard, it's not from the Lord, right?

So there may be situations that we need to rescue our children from. It's not really about a formula, but more about that abiding with Christ. Sometimes my prayer with the Lord looks like this: "Lord, I'm gonna do this unless you stop me. So, like, put something in my way, or else I know I'm gonna go do this."

I don't know. The Lord knows me. He knows what my personality's like.

Speaker 4

Sometimes your husband can try to stop you and it doesn't matter because you're resilient in difficult circumstances. But talk about that feeling that parents have when the kid is struggling with something as simple as buckling themselves in.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So the story I've told before that some I thought was kind of innocuous, right? Yeah, just a little tidbit. And so many women have come back to me about it is about letting your children do things that you know they can do, endure things that you know that they're capable of, even though it would be faster and it would be easier if you did it for them.

Right. And so one time I was in the car with a friend of mine and you know, we're not going anywhere because we wait, we wait for my child to fix this five-point harness, you know, themselves. And she keeps trying to reach back there and buckle him. And I was like, I am going to have you sit on your hands. He can do it. It takes a lot longer than if a grown woman does it. Yeah, our fine motor skills are excellent; his are terrible.

And so we are going to sit here until he does it because it's his job and he can do it. And when he's buckled, then we'll go, and we'll just sit here. And it takes time.

Speaker 4

If you just tell a kid to be different, that's so different than if I think of an example. A couple of years ago, our kids were struggling, I felt like, with conversations with adults. Our oldest was so used to it, as we planted a church; he had to have these conversations all the time.

Our two youngest didn't have to do it. So what we started doing is when they would ask me for a snack at our church, where we have all these snacks for staff kids and other kids, they would say, "Can I have a snack?" And I'd say, "You can after you go have a conversation with an adult."

Speaker 1

A meaningful conversation.

Speaker 4

A meaningful conversation. Not to bribe them, but to incentivize and say, if you're going to do this, here's how it's going to work. They started having to go look somebody in the eye, ask them about their day, ask several follow-up questions, then come process the conversation with me. After that, they could go have a snack.

Now, our youngest, who's extremely reserved, surprised us a couple of weeks ago. We were sitting on our front patio, and a solicitor came up wanting to sell us windows. We looked at our boys and said, "Okay, who wants to talk to him?" To our astonishment, our youngest said, "I'll do it."

We were like, whoa. He walked up, put his hands behind his back, and the guy, of course, started wanting to talk to me. I said, "No," and pointed to our 10-year-old, saying, "He would like to be the man of the house. He'll talk to you." The man responded, "Well, I'm here to try to sell you guys windows," and instantly felt very awkward. It was great.

Speaker 2

He did it, though.

Speaker 4

And he said, are you guys interested? New windows for your home?

Speaker 3

So you got all new windows?

Speaker 4

Yeah. And so are you? No. Are you? Youngest son looks at them and goes, I don't think so. No, sir. Like, that's great, man. It's awesome. But I would have never faced that as a kid with any sense of confidence, because I didn't have to.

But we're looking at areas to challenge them to mature. And I know at the same time, there's parts of me that are challenged not to interfere, not to intervene. And there are points in which all of us might appropriately say, let me jump in and rescue.

But that's why parenting is so hard. It's not a clear line. There's not a clear line that just says, if this is the way it goes, then jump in. Sometimes you have to go. The answer is it depends. And the answer is sometimes. Sometimes I want to jump in and help my kid. And sometimes they need to learn how to do something on their own.

Speaker 3

Okay, answer me this. You got a 10 year old talking to a window salesman. I don't even want to talk to a window salesman. And you put your little boy up there, and at the same time, you talked earlier about him crawling into your lap.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So what's. There's a tension between.

Speaker 2

No, not on the lap, but on the sidelines. Chelsea, you're holding your youngest on the sidelines of soccer or whatever.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 2

Which we get that.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Well, there's five or six years in between those two specific events. And so there is growth. I'm no longer holding him in my arms during his athletic events, but I really think, like, we touched on, there's an abiding with Christ moment by moment, day by day. It says, "Lord, guide me in this. You know, help me. Help me to have restraint where I need to have restraint and help me to have the courage to act where I need to act."

But even at the soccer game where he's like, "Mom, can you hold me?" I'm going, this is weird. You know, this is for sure weird. And at the same time, I'm going, I'm not gonna tell my son no. And so he's about to be in my arms.

Speaker 4

But this is a good question that touches on something we work through all the time, which is adults will ask us as parents, hey, you challenge us to speak spiritually, lead our families. But our kids aren't really following Jesus. So how do we navigate that?

And we'll say, well, some things you call your kid to do even before it's a reality. Like, we would ask a kid to say, I'm sorry. But most of those kids who say I'm sorry, they're not actually sorry.

Speaker 2

They don't mean it.

Speaker 4

No, they don't want forgiveness. We're teaching them how to respond when one day they do feel that. Or we tell our kids, say thank you, even if there's no gratitude in their heart. These kids aren't actually grateful. We're just teaching them, no, you say thank you.

And so even our sons will always end a game with, hey, did you say thank you to your coach? Sometimes now they will do it without even being asked. But I honestly don't think there's much gratitude in their heart.

They know it's an expectation in our family. Before we leave the game, you're going to go up to your coach and say thank you. Thank you for coaching us today. Thanks for leading us. Even if we win or lose, that's the expectation.

Speaker 3

You do that every game?

Speaker 4

Every game. And I actually got an email from one of his coaches this week saying, hey, your son always comes up to me after the game and says thank you.

Speaker 3

I don't remember hardly any kid saying that to me. That's amazing. Probably cause I was a bad coach. But I mean, you don't tell your coach. That's really cool. That's really, really cool.

Speaker 4

But that coach brought up with us, now he doesn't know that we're like basically forcing our kid to do that. Now, there may be something genuine that's grateful in our. But he's understanding, this is what's expected of me.

Speaker 3

And when he's a man, he's going to do that.

Speaker 4

And the same is true for talking to the window salesman. He may not want to, and yet we may force him to do it sometimes. But the hope is that one day that builds a confidence that he'll be ready when the time comes.

Or Chelsea is so good at talking about this that the reason we teach our kids what it looks like to follow Jesus, even if they're not following him yet, is that one day they wouldn't be surprised what it looks like to follow Jesus. When they actually do have faith, they'll go, oh, I know exactly how to do this. My parents have been teaching me my whole life. This is how that works.

Speaker 2

One of the things that I've loved, even as you shared that, Chelsea, about your son on the couch, or he asked you, "Will you hold me?" I think that aspect of asking God for things is really important. He just loves you; he knows you. He wants to know what you long for.

I remember saying, we have one son who was just telling me, like, "Oh, this happened and he needed something." I said, "Hon, you should have just called me and asked me. I would have totally done that for you." And I think God is saying that to us: "You should have just asked me. Talk to me about it. I may not give it the way you want or the timing, but I want to hear all your desires, all your longings, all of your fears. I want to know all that."

I'm going to pick you up and hold you during this game. That is the beauty of the Gospel.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 2

When we are sons and daughters, that's.

Speaker 4

The truth of the Word. And you're speaking there.

In Deuteronomy, God describes himself as the Father who carried Israel like a son is carried by a father. Like that's the real word.

And in the New Testament, Jesus describes the Father as one who knows how.

Speaker 3

To give good gifts.

Speaker 4

If you ask for bread, he's not going to give you a stone. But the inverse is also true. If we're going through life asking for stones, he's not going to give it to us.

And so we can be frustrated going, why aren't you giving me what I wanted? And we go. Even in that moment, we go, we trust that God is a good father. He wouldn't give us something and then to be cruel towards us.

He wouldn't deprive us of something to be cruel towards us. He's a good father that can be trusted. He knows what to give us.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And I think that's true. Even as we're raising our kids, we're frustrated or feeling like we're failing. Talk to him about all of it. Because he's a good father.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 3

Amen. I've always said I want to write a book called the 10 Gifts Every Parent Should Give Their Child.

Speaker 1

Come on.

Speaker 3

Number one, adversity. Number two, struggle. Number three, conflict. Number four, poverty. You know, it's all these things you. No, no, I'm not Gonna. That adversity builds character.

Speaker 4

Come on, Dave.

Speaker 3

Don't bail them out. Let them fail. You gotta. I mean, of course you don't let them run into the street.

Speaker 4

I mean, we all have a threshold.

Speaker 3

We just rescue so much. We're stopping the growth of our child. And when you said that, I thought, you guys don't do that.

And that's why these boys are becoming men as they grow up.

And we gotta learn to get out of the way and let God do what he wants to do in your child. It's hard.

Speaker 4

And you gotta write that book.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

You should walk.

Speaker 3

Yeah. I could be a little tiny one.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I mean. And don't be afraid. I remember, like, because our boys were in sports, I'd help them get in shape. They'd be running with me, and we would do stairs. And the one would, like, whine. Like, stop whining. Nobody wants to hear you whine.

Speaker 1

That's right.

Speaker 2

But I'm not always nice. And they kind of. They talk about it.

Speaker 1

I'm sure they love.

Speaker 2

No, they didn't.

Speaker 1

I'm sure they love it now.

Speaker 4

I don't know now, but they've benefited from it.

Speaker 2

They did.

Speaker 4

And that is a good example that.

Speaker 2

Went into the NFL.

Speaker 1

He didn't whine anymore.

Speaker 2

He didn't.

Speaker 4

But that is in my heart, too, that I will complain about their complaining. I will whine about their whining. Me, too. And I need to go.

You know what? I'm doing exactly what I'm telling you not to, Adam. And in that moment, I need to say, you know what? I'm sorry. I think this is good for you. I actually know it's good for you, but I'm not handling it well either.

So let's just keep running these stairs.

Speaker 2

I needed you to be running beside me, telling to stop doing that.

Speaker 4

I would have been down there at the bottom waiting for you to be done. And then I tell you when you're done.

Speaker 3

Well, this has been good stuff, you guys.

Speaker 2

This book is amazing. I think it's the fruit. I think it's great of the fruit.

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control as parents and what that looks like for, first of all, us and what that can be, how it can be demonstrated in our homes.

It's really powerful, practical, and theologically, praise God.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Great job, babe.

Speaker 4

Yeah. It's the fruit of a lot of years of not being perfect parents and yet feeling like the Lord has called us to speak the gospel into the lives of parents.

You know, from the first time we got to talk to you five years ago, getting to write about this, provide resources.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And that book was called what?

Speaker 4

Family Discipleship. And then we've done several resources for families. We'll have some more coming out in the next few years. We're just trying to be like the Wilsons, you know, just trying to do that thing.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah, you're doing it better than us. And what's your podcast called?

Speaker 1

It's called the Family Discipleship Podcast. And we're on there with a co host who is the kids minister at the church that we used to be at. And she's wonderful.

Speaker 4

Her name's Cassie Bryant, which we're really grateful for, too. It's similar to what y'all are doing. There's so many podcasts and radio shows out there for parents, but almost all of them are going to be either women talking to moms or men talking to dads.

Every once in a while, they'll have something like you guys did for so long, where you have a marriage, but you also have somebody else there with you who's, you know, a brotherly, sisterly conversation about what us looks like in home.

So for me to get to sit down with Cassie and Chelsea, I'm always challenged and blessed by that. And then I really feel like it gives a much better, well-rounded perspective. Cassie's raising all daughters, we're raising all boys.

Speaker 2

Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 4

And so we get to talk through those aspects of it as well. It's a blessing.

But we really try to focus not so much on parenting, although that is what gets touched on all the time. We're talking about the spiritual leadership of our home, which we think is like, that is quintessential Christian parenting.

How are we spiritually leading these homes? And while there's a zillion things out there for parents, there's really not that much out there that really is drilling down, saying, how are you going to lead these kids towards Christ?

So we want to do that.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So we're going to have these books @Family Life Today.com Click on the show notes and you can get good news for parents. And we'll have your other one there as well.

Speaker 4

Praise God.

Speaker 3

So go get it.

Speaker 2

Thanks, you guys.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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