FamilyLife Today®

Guest (Male): So at the end of the day when we empty the backpack or we talk about how was church, we talk about their emotional wellness. So it’s intellectual, emotional, social, physical, and spiritual. If we raise children to know they have all five of those identities, they’re less likely to put all their eggs in one basket.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today. This is our last day with Dr. Kathy Koch talking about raising kids and starting with their hearts. That’s actually the name of the book, Start with the Heart.

Ann Wilson: It’s going to be a great day. Let’s go. I can’t wait to just jump in. I remember when our kids were little, I did this all the time of saying to them when they’re really little even, “I can’t wait to see all that God has put into you.”

You’re going to be totally different from your brother of what God has put in you to do or to become or to be. I said, “You have gifts that he’s given you, and it’s going to be so fun to discover them.” Then when they got older, I’m like, “The reason we do things at church and we’re serving is because that’s part of our call but also to discover what do you love? What are the things that God’s going to assign to you? What are you passionate about?”

I’m saying that now to our grandkids. I can’t wait to see, and I’m starting to see them already. Then they’ll be like, “Like what, Nanny? Like what do you see?” I see that you’re a protector, and you’re really funny, and you’re really a hard worker.

We have one grandson who makes coffee for his dad every morning. Then he does the laundry. It started at five years old. He’s six years old. He can find, and I said, “Bryce, this is so unique about you that you’re good at it and you like it. I wonder what God’s going to do with that.”

Guest (Male): I love that because that’s direction. I love to say to young people that your future is in you because Ephesians 2:10, we’re gifted in advance to do good work that we would walk in them. I was a Chatty Cathy as a kid and now I speak. The same thing for both of you, right?

I loved reading and writing and now I write books. The future is in you. When I say that to young adults, they look at me like, “Whoa.” Get direction, seek counsel from the people who know you and the people who you want to be known by, but the future’s in you. Ephesians 2:10 declares it.

I love that because then they’re empowered to believe God has done a good work for them. So important. Let me quickly do competence. This is big, competence. Purpose, why am I alive? leads to competence, what do I do well? So we have security, identity, belonging, purpose, and then competence, what do I do well?

A lot of people think that that’s the only one that matters. This would be a school model and it’s very dangerous because we would believe at Celebrate Kids and based on Ephesians and the teaching of Christ that if you don’t have security, identity, belonging, and purpose in healthy ways, you will not have competence. You don’t need it.

The reason you need competence, what do I do well, is because you have purpose. When I notice mediocrity, when I notice the plateau of average, when I notice people who can’t decide what to do next, it is a lack of purpose which causes a lack of need for competence.

Competence is character, which we all need. Competence is love, which is Great Commandment, Great Commission if you will. Competence is teachability and it’s again, it’s a character piece. What do I do well and who am I well, if I can maybe put it that way as well?

Purpose will drive competence and you can put a double-sided arrow there if people can see that. Competence can facilitate purpose. When you tell a child what he is good at, you’re good at cleaning, you’re good at organizing, you’re good at helping, you’re an excellent service, you have initiative, you do things before you’re asked to do them, you have a heart of service, that’s competence.

What’s his purpose? To serve and to clean. Now he has eyes to see where he could serve. Now he has affirmation, which is belonging. He has identity and he has security. I belong here. When a child has chores and a child facilitates growth within the family unit, they’re wanted there and they want to be there. They’re needed there and it’s so valuable. That’s a reason we have family units.

When you teach your grandchildren, when you develop their competency to be obedient, to go to bed, to eat their vegetables, to do life well, competency, you’re giving them security in you. When we correct, when we teach, when we have these conversations, let me teach you something that I think would help you in relationship.

Before you talk about yourself, ask them to elaborate on their story. When you teach them something that facilitates their growth, they become more secure in you as the teacher and now when they’re confused, they’re going to come back to you. They also develop an appropriate self-security.

They go to youth group or they go to a babysitting job or they go to work or they go to school and they go, “Okay, wait. I’m going to have longer conversations today because I think my mom was right. I need to remember to say tell me more.” Now they have a security in themselves, which is actually a security in you and the Holy Spirit in them.

Those are life-changing skills and ultimately again, our competence is found in God. Do we pray and do we wait for answers, and have we taught kids how to receive the answers? Our competence is that in God’s strength we can be strong. Our competence is when we’re weak, he is strong. Our competence is found in the truth of the scripture, which is supposed to be our food. Do we model that and do we teach that?

Dave Wilson: What’s interesting, and I know this is true for men, I’m guessing it might be true for women as well, but if I go to a party or any guy goes to a party and meets a new person he’s never met before, within five minutes—I was just preaching on this a couple weeks ago at my church—I said every guy within five minutes of meeting a new guy, what’s he going to ask you? What do you do?

That is your identity because that answer to that person, and I made a joke about it, the second they say, “I do this,” calculations go off in the brain. Oh, you make this kind of money, you probably live here, you drive this kind of car. Every guy’s like, oh, important or not so important, all based on competence or a job title.

I think that we get confused that we think our identity is what I do or how good I am at some thing. Kids do too. In fact, Dave, a lot of men flip the pyramid and competence becomes their security. My security is what I do and that I do it well, which is why retirement is so hard for men.

I rarely ask men what they do, even women, for two reasons. I don’t want it to be their identity, and some men aren’t proud of what they do. It’s potentially a socially awkward moment. This is why I say, “What would you like me to know about you?” That’s good.

Ann Wilson: What do women find their identity in or competence?

Guest (Male): I would love it to be in God first, obviously. I would love it to be in relationships.

Ann Wilson: What do they usually say?

Guest (Male): Oh, it’s almost always career. For children: appearance, grades, ability. I’m the starting forward. I’m an A student. Beauty would be big. It’s often performance-minded, which is why at Celebrate Kids, we podcast often on the danger of raising kids to be performers where they have to perform so mom looks good, they have to perform so dad will love them.

That’s not unconditional love. That’s conditional love, which is dangerous. They play off of us. If our security is money, I live on the right cul-de-sac and I work at this store, you work there but I work here, if there’s competition, if there’s comparison, if there’s money, the kids are going to certainly pick up on that, which is really dangerous.

Ann Wilson: And I think too, as a woman, I can find my identity in my kids.

Guest (Male): That’s what I mean by they think they have to perform for you. Then you get your happiness from your kids. Again, God designed the family unit. You should and I want you to have joy in your children and your grandchildren. I want you to delight if your adult children are walking with the Lord and they have a solid marriage, but they’re not doing that so that you look good to your peer group. They’re doing that, I pray, because you’ve taught them well and they’re honoring the Lord and this is what you affirm for them.

Ann Wilson: And it’s very revealing. I remember when our oldest son—Dave and I are both very extroverted, love getting to know people—so then you make assumptions of what your kids will be like. They’re going to be like us. Our oldest son was so introverted. My mom would always say, “He’s really different, isn’t he?”

And I’m like, “Is he different? Is that bad?” So I think as a parent, we find so much of our self-worth and identity through our kids. I was so worried about that that I couldn’t celebrate the genius of who he was until later.

Dave Wilson: And he has more friends and great relationships now as a man. It was like that was a misdiagnosis almost. Yeah, he’s more of an introverted guy who gets life and energy from being alone rather than with people.

Ann Wilson: If we could celebrate these kids and who God’s made them to be because the world is crushing them.

Dave Wilson: Let me ask you this because I didn’t get any of this. Again, I came from a very broken divorce and adultery and alcohol family, but I had a great mom. She was an amazing mom and loved me and I was the center of her universe. In some ways I get it because her husband left, my brother died of leukemia, so there was a lot of trauma.

But I’m married to Ann and we’re in our first ministry job after college. I am introduced now on the university where we’re working with college athletes. I was a college athlete a year ago, so now we’re on a college campus and I’m being introduced, “Hey, this is Dave Wilson. He’s with Athletes in Action.” That’s Cru ministry.

My whole life I had been Dave Wilson, quarterback. He’s all-conference. He led the nation in this. Always there was my name and that. And now there’s Dave and he’s a pastor. I’m so insecure and I would have told you I’m the most secure guy ever. I walk into a room, I control it because I controlled the huddle. I called the play, I tell people what to do, I get them the ball.

I go to Ann and I say to her in private, “Hey, listen. Nobody here knows that I was somebody. I did something significant. So I can’t say when they introduce me, 'Hey, by the way, a year ago I was leading the nation in this,' but you can drop it in there and it’ll make me look better.” What does my wonderful wife say? She goes, “Sure, I’ll do that for you.”

Looking back, I’m so insecure because my entire identity was competence. I know a lot of men who don’t admit it, but I had to wrestle with, is that who I am? No, it isn’t, but at that point, I did not know how to disconnect. That is who I am. What do you mean that’s not who I am? What am I apart from that? Because I didn’t understand identity in Christ yet. I really didn’t. That question what you said, “What would you like me to know about you?” back then my answer would have been, “Hey, a year ago the Cincinnati Bengals reached out and I had a shot at the NFL.” Now it would be, “I’m a child of God. I am significant because of who he says I am.”

Guest (Male): If parents understand that and do this well, their kid won’t grow up like Dave. They won’t have to say to their wife, “Tell people I was important.” I think you’re a good example of what you’ve become. I do believe based on our work that when parents model this, children will become that.

When we are secure in Christ and our relationship that’s most important is Jesus, the sacrifice of Christ, the church, the family of God, serving him, knowing him, wanting him known, when those are things that we celebrate, when we let them know what our values are, that we’re pro-life and that we’re generous, I think it changes the family unit.

I think it changes the children and I think it changes you. When a dad wants to impart truth to children, they’ll have to regard themselves differently. I want to say you were an excellent quarterback. You don’t have to deny that, but living in the past is really dangerous. The question is who am I, not who was I. There are a lot of men and women who I think live in the past.

The past informs you, but it ought not control you. We ought to always be growing up and moving forward. Sometimes there’s a really hard shift. In fact, this is one of the reasons our kids are not launching well because they don’t want to give up what they’ve had and they don’t know how to pursue something that’s unknown because they want to be happy. They’re not secure. This is their security and they’re afraid to lose it.

We can’t just affirm a daughter or son’s ability. At the end of the day when we empty the backpack or we talk about how was church, we talk about their emotional wellness, their physical wellness, their emotional, so it’s intellectual, emotional, social, physical, and spiritual.

If we raise children to know they have all five of those identities, they’re less likely to put all their eggs in one basket. For you it would have been security, I’m a great quarterback. Identity, I’m a great quarterback. Belonging, the team needs me. Purpose, to win the game. Competence, I’m a great quarterback. When you’re no longer that, all five go away.

For a lot of women, security, my kids love me. Identity, I’m their mom. Belonging, my kids love me. Purpose, to raise good kids. Competence, I’m a good mom. That’s why empty nesting is so difficult. Those things are good things. They’re a part of what is good. Primarily again, it’s Jesus. Do we know that? Is he enough? Do we celebrate him in a real way and do our kids know that?

Do we make sure to talk with them about all of who they are? Do you talk about their spiritual self? Do you say, “I noticed you worshipping with great joy”? You didn’t distract me, I was worshipping but I couldn’t help but notice that you were so in the moment with Jesus.

By the way, Bethany, you’re ready for church on time and that just blesses me and pleases God. Do we talk about the things that we say are most important? Do we ask at the end of the day, “Who were you friendly with today and why?” Do we ask at the end of youth group, “Did you notice anyone lonely and did you choose to sit with him, and if not, why not? Did you welcome anybody into your icebreaker game or did you just ignore those who seemed insecure?”

We’re asking different questions because what we ask, they value.

Ann Wilson: Does that ever bring shame on kids?

Guest (Male): Not if we do it right. I don’t want to shame or blame anybody. If you are raising children to be hospitable, if you’re teaching them to look out for the lonely, which we want to do, then you ask that question. If you’ve never taught your kids to be hospitable, if you’ve never taught your kids to look out for the lonely, then it’s probably not appropriate to ask the question.

Rather we would make a statement: “Hey, I noticed in the lunchroom today there was a lady all alone and I hadn’t met her before and I asked if she wouldn’t mind if I sat with her and we had a great conversation. She actually lives only about a mile and a half from here. I might be able to help her out Tuesday when she needs to get her car worked on.” That’s so good. Have you ever thought to do that?

Your question is excellent. We don’t want to shame or blame. I don’t want any of our listeners to feel that either. You don’t know what you don’t know. So be grateful for the future, don’t regret the past.

Ann Wilson: Even the hospitable part, how do we teach our boys to be hospitable?

Guest (Male): We invite people over on a Friday night even if our house is a mess. We go to the park and we invite our neighbors to go with us so we have more people to play a game of ball with. We put people first. I’m a task-oriented busy woman. I’m an introvert, so when I get home I like my home. I have learned to say yes to invitations to have dinner with people because people matter greatly and I’ll go out of my way to say yes so I look hospitable.

That way if I had a kid that I was raising, I think they would see that I sacrifice for the good of people. Sometimes you may not want to do it. It’s okay to do it even if we don’t want to. Why? Because God’s word trumps it all and he would say look out for the lonely or help out a friend.

Our role modeling is very important that we are who we want them to be. Then I also think we teach, like in my character book, we teach hospitality, we teach other-centeredness, we teach respect for others. In friendship, we teach them how to have a conversation.

What do you do when somebody says, “Hey, how”? Kids will say to me, “They’ll say how are you but then I try to answer it and they don’t listen. So is the right answer always fine? But when I’m not okay, can I ever talk about it?” Those are real questions. If we don’t handle those awkward social moments, then they’re not going to be able to do it well.

Ann Wilson: I had two of our grandkids in the car when school was about to start. One was going to be in preschool, the other in first grade. I said, “You guys, this is fun. You’re probably going to make some new friends this year.” And I said, “Do you know how to make a friend?” And they both said, “No.” I had never even thought about that of some questions they could ask like, “Hey, what’s your name?” and “What do you like to do?” or just give them, “Do you want to play this?” or “Can I join you?” They had never thought of that. To walk into a situation and you have no idea how to make a friend, and you get into that of how to do that.

Guest (Male): We didn’t have to do that in the old days. It was natural. But now because of devices and our eyes are down and our hands are busy and it’s all about us, we’ve become very self-centered, even adults. It’s a difficult thing. What we want for them, we have to teach them. Now we pray for them but let’s also teach them the skills that we think they need.

Dave Wilson: Hey, let me just pause and say this. Our financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry. When you join this monthly giving community, you’re not just donating, you’re building something eternal.

Ann Wilson: And we’d be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would. So here’s the question: will you join us today?

Dave Wilson: I hope your answer is yes. If it is, go to familylifetoday.com, you can click the donate button right there and become a part of the monthly partner program. We’ve got Bruce in there with young kids and Chantal’s in there. Anything that you guys want to ask?

Chantal: We have so many questions. Kathy, as you are going through many of the prompting of some of the conversations with kids, it sounds as though you said daily these are some of the things you should hit on, how are they doing spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, things of that nature. My question is, how do you have those conversations daily with multiple kids? I feel as though I need to start, Bruce and I were laughing, saying at six in the morning to get them all in.

Guest (Male): Maybe you’re not able to. It’s okay if we look at a seven-day week, have we talked to Lisa and Frank? Have we done our very best to prioritize each of the children in opportunities? Do we take different kids on car rides? Do we go for a bike ride with a different kid or do we always only go with the one kid?

Is one kid a morning kid and one kid’s a night kid? I think we consider that as well. One of the things that I’ve done successfully as I’ve mentored families would be even a go-fish pile in the middle of the table at dinner and everybody in the family chooses a question including mom and dad or a statement. It might be a statement, it might be a question, or it might even be health and they have to tell you about health that day. Did they have health class or when do they feel unhealthy, when do they feel healthy?

You could have a go-fish pile of adjectives: compassionate, friendly, angry, hopeful. They could all choose a card and talk about that feeling that day and when did they have it. If it’s random, the kids won’t feel so picked on and they might be more willing to share. It might take the stress off of the mom who’s like, “I have to think of another question to ask another kid.” That can become really intimidating possibly.

Making it a game, I actually believe in rolling a dice and if there’s a six you get to tell me six things you did that day and if you get a one you only have to tell me one. What’s really frustrating is if Chatty Cathy gets the one because Chatty Cathy always wants the six. Making it a game and making it more interactive might be fun and doing it over the course of a week would be ideal. I don’t think every day is realistic for a lot of our busy parents and even busy kids. But again I would say with respect, if we’re so busy we can’t, is there something we could drop out of? Prioritizing family in these very few years that we have is probably going to be a God-honoring decision.

Ann Wilson: One of the things we did, Chantal, was we would focus on just times that naturally occur with a family: car time, bedtime, mealtime. We would have somewhere along that time, I would make sure that I would hit each one of those with one of those kids because it’s just natural. It happens, especially when they’re young. You got that from Deuteronomy 6. Walk along the way.

Guest (Male): What I think happens is that if we start to do that, they’re going to want us to do it. They might resist the first two times, “Oh, another question,” but they want to be known. We talked about this at the very beginning. They want to be seen, they want to know that they’re valued there. If you start the habit, they’ll continue the habit and they’ll come up to you and say, “Hey, Mom, ask me this question tonight,” because they have something that they want to share with us. What an honor that we would be there as the listener.

Ann Wilson: I was sad when my kids turned 16 and I wouldn’t have that captive audience in the car.

Dave Wilson: I was sad when our 16-year-old backed into the car in the driveway three times. That happened three times. Did you have one, Bruce?

Bruce: I don’t know if it’s a question as much as it’s just a realization of how important it is to be intentional with these things because otherwise if I let my kids just lead the conversation—I have young girls—I just go numb. They’re trying to explain the Mario level they made and with this lava thing and I’m like, “I can’t give you my attention for that long. I just I can’t get there.”

But if I was intentional to get these heart questions, once I’m there, I love to hear their heart. Then I’m engaged. But it’s the intentionality. Otherwise I just am like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” and I just want some me time. It was a realization, also conviction, but I really appreciate how you answered Chantal’s because I was feeling the same thing.

It’s like, okay, got to floss my teeth, we were laughing, we got to get 64 ounces of water, got to make sure that the lawn is mowed, mortgage is paid, are we doing our taxes right, am I spending time with Maria? It can start to feel overwhelming, but like you’re saying, as you’re going, be intentional. That’s what I’m taking away from this.

Dave Wilson: I’m just going to say thanks. You’re the best every single time. You can get her book at familylifetoday.com. Click on the link in the show notes. Start with the Heart, you will want to get this book, I’m telling you. It’s a gem. You get to the core of what we need to do and be as parents. Thanks.

Ann Wilson: What if the questions you’re too embarrassed to ask are the ones your marriage needs answered? Marriage After Dark is FamilyLife’s newest podcast where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring sex. Yes, the stuff you’d never ask your pastor or your friend.

Dave Wilson: For more, go to familylife.com/marriageafterdark because intimacy shouldn’t stay in the dark. Again, that’s familylife.com/marriageafterdark. FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.