FamilyLife Today®

Vaneetha Risner: It feels like when you say my spouse died, my child died, or I have a disease, there's no question about your character. Nobody thinks, "Oh wow, what did you do?" But the minute somebody says, "I got divorced," our first question is, "What did you do?"

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann Wilson: I’m pretty excited about this topic today because I’m not sure we’ve really covered this topic at FamilyLife Today very often.

Dave Wilson: This might be the first time.

Ann Wilson: Vaneetha Risner is in the studio! You may be the first person—we’ve talked about it, but I’m not sure we’ve done a book on the topic of divorce. Tell us, your book is called *This Was Never the Plan: Walking with God through the Heartache of Divorce*. We know the divorce rate is—what do you know it is now, Vaneetha?

Vaneetha Risner: I think it’s over 50%.

Dave Wilson: It is in the culture. It's 23% in the church. I have to start here. How many times have you been on FamilyLife Today? The first time we met you was in Little Rock.

Vaneetha Risner: This is the third time, and I love being on the show. I could do this every week.

Ann Wilson: We just love you because what you’re producing—your writing, your Bible studies, your books—are incredibly practical, vulnerable, and helpful. They’re amazing. I feel like maybe you’ve walked through a divorce, or maybe one of your kids is walking through a divorce, a friend, or even that your parents walked through this and you wish they would have done it in a healthier way. What prompted you to write this?

Vaneetha Risner: What prompted me to write this was my editor. I would like to say the Holy Spirit came first, but it was my editor who approached me twice and said, "Do you want to write this book? We think there’s a need." I said, "I’m sure there’s a need, but I am not your girl." In the Christian community, even now, you don’t want to lead with divorce. I can lead with suffering, but not divorce.

The third time he came back to me and said, "Our whole team has prayed about it. Have you prayed about it?" I thought it was a novel idea, praying about it. But I thought I didn't need to pray because God had already told me. Joel and I prayed about it and I realized I needed to do this.

I realize the reason we don’t talk about it—and there are not that many books—is because there’s still shame around it, no matter what the reason is. It feels like when you say my spouse died, my child died, or I have a disease, there’s no question about your character. Nobody thinks, "Oh wow, what did you do?" But the minute somebody says, "I got divorced," our first question is, "What did you do?"

I do think about John 9 where they see a man blind from birth. In those days, they asked Jesus, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" We unconsciously ask that question when somebody says, "I got a divorce." It’s "Who sinned?"

Ann Wilson: And we think, "What part did you play? You must not be pro-marriage, or maybe your faith isn’t exactly what I thought."

Vaneetha Risner: They may not be thinking any of that, or they may be thinking all of it. Honestly, when somebody says, "I just got a divorce," you’re looking like, "Are you happy?" We don't know. We have that question, and very few people approach it neutrally.

Ann Wilson: Do you think that’s why there hasn’t been much written on it from a biblical viewpoint?

Vaneetha Risner: Yes. I think you don’t want to put it out there. I didn’t want to be known as the woman who went through a divorce. You really need to be clear about biblical divorce.

In our culture, with the divorce rate being so high, a lot of times it’s, "We were never meant to be," or "We argued all the time," or "We’re better people being apart." Those are not reasons to get divorced. You have to be really clear about biblical divorce as a Christian when you want to talk about it.

Dave Wilson: When I first picked up your book and saw the title, I did not see the subtitle, *This Was Never the Plan*. My first thought wasn’t even about divorce. I thought, "I know your life story." Can you give our listeners a little back-story to that wasn't the plan, and then you get married and there's another "that's not the plan"?

Vaneetha Risner: I was born in India, and when I was three months old, I contracted polio. In India, you don’t get the vaccine at three months; usually it was six months. Polio had pretty much been eradicated, but I got it. The doctors didn't know what I had, so they gave me cortisone to lower my fever. It was 105. I was three months old, so they really needed to do something quickly or I would have had brain damage.

Within a few days, I was a quadriplegic. They realized she doesn't have typhoid—they thought I had typhoid—she has polio. But there was really nothing they could do. I could not move my arms or legs. My parents left India, moved to England, and then moved to Canada. I had 21 operations by the time I was 13.

I lived in the hospital, really one year all by myself because my parents could only visit on weekends. I was in a ward. I grew up really angry at God but came to Christ at 16 through the teaching of John 9. I really thought I was about to live my best life now. Truly, I remember thinking, "I’ve had my suffering. This is all that I’m going to go through. Now I have a testimony."

I was so excited about telling people, "You commit your life to Christ and it is going to be perfection." It was for 14 or 15 years. It was as great as I could imagine. Physically I was walking. I lived in Boston, had my dream job, walked to work, lived on Beacon Hill—this prestigious thing—and was all into my career. I went to grad school and met and married a classmate.

It was great, but then I had four miscarriages after we were married. That was really hard. That was my first realization that this wasn't what I thought it was going to be. Then I had an infant son, Paul, who died because a doctor made a mistake in his care. He was two months old, and that was gut-wrenching. That song by Natalie Grant, *Held*, a friend of mine wrote it, and it was really about Paul. "Two months is too little, but they let him go."

That was a traumatic thing. Six years after that, I was diagnosed with post-polio syndrome. Basically, my body is going backwards. They said my strength and energy is like money in a bank. Everything I do makes a withdrawal, and eventually, I will be back to where I was, which was quadriplegia. It’s been a slow decline. Now I use a wheelchair more than I walk, and my arms are really weak.

Ann Wilson: When did you have your daughters?

Vaneetha Risner: My daughters were born—one was born before Paul died and one was born right after Paul died. I had a miscarriage and two other miscarriages in between. Six years after that diagnosis, my husband at the time came home and said he had met someone else. He said he was in love with her, and a month later he moved out. I was left to parent two adolescent daughters as a single parent, wondering where God was. It was the hardest thing because there are so many layers of it and people don't know what to say.

Ann Wilson: I’m thinking about the listener who’s hearing your story for the first time. Maybe they’re thinking, "Were you mad at God?" These are things that are out of your control—miscarriages, your son’s death—so much of that. It was not your fault. Did you ever think, "God, where are you?"

Vaneetha Risner: I would say I was mad at God certainly before I came to Christ and I didn’t know God. I was really pretty shaken after Paul died. Where is God? This is not my plan; this is not what I signed up for. This is not the ticket I bought when I signed up to become a Christian.

After this, I felt like God hated me, honestly. I shouted that in my pastor’s house. "Why does God hate me?" But I don’t know if I was as mad at God as I had been before because I had tasted the goodness of God. Before you’ve tasted the goodness of God, you can be really angry.

When you know how God has worked through the worst things—for me, the post-polio and my son’s death—and I have seen how God has shown up for me, you've seen His goodness and you would say He’s good. First, I thought, "Do you hate me?" But in many ways, I knew that God loved me. I knew I was angry, but for me, not as much at God because I have been convinced more than anything else that God is good and everything God does is good.

Dave Wilson: What is your theology of suffering? I think we live in a country, because we’re so prosperous and so blessed, that in the church—and I’ve been a pastor for decades—there’s not often a theology of suffering. When it happens, we’re mad and angry, and we think God abandoned us rather than "this was never the plan, and the plan never is what we think it's going to be, but God's with me." Do you have a perspective of suffering that makes sense?

Vaneetha Risner: There are two verses that I think are overused—I don't love people quoting them to me—but they’re really the bedrock of my faith. One is Romans 8:28, which somebody said to me at my son’s funeral, and I was so angry. I thought, "Don’t ever say this to someone to try to make them make sense of their suffering." But it is truly what helped me: all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose. I recognize it doesn’t feel good.

Even looking at Job, Job is a perfect example of the theology of suffering. Satan was the immediate cause. Satan is the one who actually chose to do that because of what God said: "You can do anything." Satan did that, but God is the one that permitted it and God is the one that used it to sanctify Job. We see that in Genesis 50:20, where Joseph’s brothers come to him and ask for forgiveness, and Joseph says, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good."

That’s my theology of suffering: God means everything for our good. Some of it I may not understand. When I was two years old, my mom says that I was in the hospital for my first surgery. When I came out of surgery, I was so angry at my parents. I would not look at them. My mom came in the room and I just kept turning my head.

Finally, she just sat down beside my bed and she put her hands over her face and started crying. I softened and said to my mom, "Take away the pajamas, I won’t be naughty again." My mom realized I thought suffering—my pain—was to punish me. Then I told her I was going to eat my peas. My mom said she was heartbroken.

She said to me, "No, no, no, this is for your good. You’re going to be able to walk one day." I said I didn't want to walk because my dad carried me everywhere. I was taller than everybody else who was two. Of course, I didn't want to walk. This was painful and I didn't want it. But now I know that I wouldn’t be able to walk if I hadn’t had that surgery and if my parents hadn’t put me through that time and time again, when I didn’t understand it and I didn’t even see the good of walking.

I think that’s a picture of suffering for us: it just feels like pain and maybe we cannot understand it. My two-year-old mind could not understand what was good about that, but I trusted my mom. A lot of it is, do we trust that God is good? If we do, then suffering in the hands of a good God will be good for us.

Ann Wilson: As a mom, have you ever lost your temper and thought, "Wow, how did that escalate so fast?" Mom anger usually isn’t just about the spilled milk or sibling arguments. That gets you angry, but there’s often something deeper going on.

Dave Wilson: We have been there. Guess what? We’ve got a five-session video series from author and mom of four, Janel Breitenstein. Let me tell you, she gets real. She gets real about her life and her anger and her own struggles with anger and what God has taught her through them. You’re going to discover practical tools, biblical encouragement, and you’ll get insight into the fears and triggers fueling your reaction.

Ann Wilson: It’s so good. You can sign up today at FamilyLife.com/MomAnger. Again, that’s FamilyLife.com/MomAnger.

Dave Wilson: I look at the man I am today, and it comes through suffering. You grow in adversity, not prosperity. Growth comes and character is built in the valley. Do you think people who have gone through a divorce can say that? You’ve written this whole book about this.

Vaneetha Risner: I think if you turn to God in suffering, you will learn to love God even more. Your faith will deepen and your character will change. If you turn away in bitterness—suffering can make people super bitter. I feel like divorce is one where sometimes somebody might say, "I’m divorced," and the second thing they want to tell you, even years later, is all their ex-spouse did to them.

Ann Wilson: It’s a crossroads. You have a choice to go toward or away.

Dave Wilson: I look at your opening chapter. You say, "Divorce is the great undoing that leaves believers standing in the wreckage of a life they never planned." When your husband says, "I’m leaving you," what happened? What did you think? Were you mad at God then, too? Mad at him?

Vaneetha Risner: I was mad at him more than God. I was just so bewildered. I remember the ground was shaking. It took me a long time to even think clearly. I felt like I was pushing through a fog even trying to make sense of things because it was so disorienting. I was so shocked by it.

Ann Wilson: I thought it was so descriptive of you sitting in the doctor’s office. Share that because I think every person that’s walked through a divorce they never wanted—nobody ever wants to get a divorce—can relate.

Vaneetha Risner: I had a new doctor because I had back pain. You’re filling out the forms and there is a check-box: single, married, or divorced. I didn't feel divorced. I was just divorced. I wondered why it was any of their business. I had a ton of questions.

But then finally, I checked the box and moved on. I wondered what they were going to think. I turned it in and then I went in. The doctor walked in, whom I had never seen before, and he was staring at my chart. I thought he saw I was divorced and was wondering why I got divorced.

I said, "Hey, I just want you to know I’m not the kind of person that wanted to get divorced." I said this to him! He looked up at me and he said, "I’m just checking your chart to see where your back hurts exactly." He didn’t really need to know that, but I thought he was taking a little too long, and in my mind, that needed to be his first question because I had agonized over it.

Dave Wilson: Isn't there a sense in the church you walk in as a divorced person and you feel like you’ve got a scarlet letter on your forehead? So many are married and it looks like their marriages are perfect, at least at church, and you feel like an outcast. You felt the same thing at the doctor’s office: "I have to explain this."

Vaneetha Risner: I felt like I needed to explain it to everyone. I might be a little of an over-explainer. I felt a lot of shame. But I couldn’t really explain all the reasons because they were complicated and I had young kids—they were 10 and 13 at the time. I do feel like shame plays a big part, especially if it’s something that you didn’t see coming or didn't want. You feel like you’re being judged.

I think the church doesn’t do a great job of that. I feel like my church was wonderful, but there are people in the church who were still questioning whether I should be teaching Bible study. I remember one of my daughters was in the bathroom when she heard two people walk in and they were talking about our family.

We had been really involved in the church and people were questioning us. Our pastor was super supportive, and when they asked if I should be teaching Bible study, he said, "Absolutely, she should. I know the situation." But there are lots of people who don’t come to you and lots of questions you don’t hear, and you feel conspicuous sitting alone. Especially with these families with kids highlighting in their Bibles, while my kids are making paper airplanes with the bulletin.

Ann Wilson: I’m thinking of you coming into that situation with all these people who know you and know your ex-spouse. I would want to over-explain and say, "He cheated on me," so that they know it’s not me. Just knowing me, I’d be like, "It’s not me, it’s him." Did you have that feeling?

Vaneetha Risner: I wanted to so much. But I have girls. I had a sign that I would literally read every day on my bulletin board: "Faith is trusting God to set the record straight." I just had to do that because you can’t tell it all. You don’t want everybody knowing about the situation when you have young girls because once you tell one piece of it, then everybody wants to add to it. It's like the game of telephone; you have no idea where that’s going.

I felt like I needed to keep it pretty close for my girls and for the Lord. I am telling about it now, but it’s been a long, long time.

Ann Wilson: But even for the way they perceive their dad.

Vaneetha Risner: Yes. And that was really important to me, not trash-talking him. I wanted him to tell them what they needed to know. At the very beginning when he moved out, they didn’t know why, and that was gut-wrenching for me. There were a lot of details I kept from them and they were really angry at me. I would have to read that every day: "Faith is trusting God to set the record straight." You can’t say everything.

Ann Wilson: If you’re listening, you might need to make that sign and hang it and read it every day. Put it on the mirror.

Dave Wilson: What does it say again?

Vaneetha Risner: Faith is trusting God to set the record straight. Your kids eventually will grow up and get to know the situation differently and get to know their father or mother themselves. I knew that it was really important for my kids to have a good relationship with their dad. Their dad loved them and I did not want to make that any harder. That was hard for me because I was often the bad guy and they didn’t know the whole situation. I had to be willing to let it go and not over-explain.

Ann Wilson: I love your chapter titles, like the chapter that says *Tears, Fears, and the Tenderness of God*. That’s very descriptive.

Dave Wilson: How did you experience the tenderness of God?

Vaneetha Risner: I feel like I grew more than I ever have in my life through it.

Ann Wilson: You’ve gone through a lot of tragedy, but this one was different.

Vaneetha Risner: This was different because I was alone and I had two kids who were really angry at the time. And then I still had the disability. We were six years down the road. I couldn’t drive my kids everywhere I needed to, and my husband at the time had been doing a lot of that. All of a sudden everything fell on me. I felt this weight that I can’t even describe.

Every game—my daughter played basketball in college—but at that age, it was lots of basketball games and practices. It was a lot. I remember just getting up in the morning and crying out to God in ways that I don’t think I had before. The Bible had been something I did for my quiet time before moving on with my day. I taught the Bible, but it wasn’t life always to me. It was sometimes duty.

I remember saying to God, "This can’t be duty. I need You to meet me." The verse that I would say every day is Psalm 119:25: "My soul clings to the dust; revive me according to Your word." I would open the Bible and say, "God, You have to show up. I can’t make it through this day. My girls are going to be in here soon and I’m going to be in tears, so I need You." I realized we all need to do that, whether we’re in crisis or not.

Dave Wilson: That’s where we need to be every day.

Vaneetha Risner: We need to be in expectation, but I didn’t even know I could be in expectation until then. I told God He had to show up and be real. He had to make the Bible real because that was all I had.

Ann Wilson: I’m just going to say I always love being with Vaneetha Risner. She can come back anytime.

Dave Wilson: Again, her book is called *This Was Never the Plan*. You can get it at FamilyLifeToday.com, just click on the link in the show notes. We’ve got her back tomorrow again, so you don’t want to miss that.

Before we’re done today, let me just say this. At FamilyLife, we really believe strong families can change the world. When you become a FamilyLife partner, you help make that happen.

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Ann Wilson: You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the donate button to join today.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.