FamilyLife Today®

Katie Voetberg: I had this expectation my mom was going to come stay at my house for a week after the baby. And now we're in this tiny two-bedroom apartment, and Elisha has his mother-in-law there 24/7. It's just what do I do?

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Okay, I’m taking a shot here, but I’m going to guess one of the hardest transitions for husbands—I can’t speak for wives—is when his wife has a baby. Not because that’s not a wonderful—it's awesome, it’s incredible, what a blessing of God—but at least for me, you’ve heard me say this before, I felt like I became number two, and then number three. The baby came first. I was an afterthought.

Ann Wilson: And I felt like I don't even know who I am. I don't know what’s happened to my life. It was such a shock to me. I thought I’d be this great, amazing mom.

Dave Wilson: And you were.

Ann Wilson: And I remember my dad coming to visit with my mom. I think that our baby was a month old, super colicky, firstborn. And my dad said, "How is it? How are you?"

And I said, "Dad," I’m the youngest of four, I said, "this is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life. Dad, I could go run a marathon and think, 'Boy, that was hard.' This is a thousand times harder for me to transition into this life." I lost myself, and so I can understand why you’d feel like that, because I didn't even know who I was. And so I'm sure you felt left behind because I was lost in the desert somewhere.

Dave Wilson: Well, we're going to talk about that because I think life and marriage and family changes after the baby. And I just read the title of a book that we have the authors in the studio with us today. Elisha and Katie Voetberg are back. And the subtitle is *The Five Biggest Pain Points of Postpartum and How to Work Through Them as a Married Couple*.

So obviously the subtitle tells us a little bit, but have you experienced the same thing? After the baby, it's a whole different ball game.

Katie Voetberg: The whole reason why we wrote these was because I did feel like there was a lot of information supporting moms on the transition through postpartum, but then there wasn't a lot for dads. And there was definitely nothing that we found that was talking about navigating through it as a couple. Because when you're married, everything that you're going through, your spouse is also going through to some extent.

Elisha Voetberg: Yeah, and I think there was an element of being totally taken off guard because, as we've talked about before, we were from big families. And we thought, my dad was happy, my mom, they were happy, had this great marriage. And for whatever reason, we just thought we were going to seamlessly go from being these people that were newlyweds with no children to going into our first child, and that that was not going to have an effect on our marriage.

Because you're excited about the child and you're reading parenting books and you're reading all the things to prepare you for that. But then you're still married when you go into that postpartum season. In fact, your marriage becomes even more of a crucial element of your life. And so I was excited to be a father, Katie was excited to be a mother. And then a couple weeks after having the baby, you're thinking, "Who is this person I married?" And so all of a sudden our marriage started suffering even though we were thrilled to have a child.

Katie Voetberg: Well, I feel like my mom kind of tricked me. She birthed 11 children. I was the oldest of those, and so I was able to see a lot of new babies into our home.

Ann Wilson: You watched her all those years.

Katie Voetberg: Yeah, and she just made it seem like a piece of cake. One week later she was back to homeschooling, making all the meals. My dad was back at work. I was just like, you have a baby, you're in bed for a few days, and then life goes back to normal. That’s what I thought.

And so we're three weeks in with our first, and nursing didn't come naturally as you'd think it would. And so I’m stressing out about that, and Elisha is acting like I don't exist at this point because he’s just stressed out about all of it and I think feeling, "Where is my place in all of this?"

Elisha Voetberg: Yeah, I was a really, really brilliant guy. I tell you what. Because I was thinking, "Okay, sex is off the table, so I don't need to show any physical attention towards my wife. I don't need to give her any affirmation." And so she was feeling the neglect from me because I just was like, "Well, I don't know how to show affection at this point if it doesn't lead to the ultimate affection."

And so at that point in our marriage, communication was terrible. We weren't feeling as one at all. Katie felt very isolated with her baby and I was not caring for her in any loving way at all. And if anything, the entitled mindset that I had was, "Okay, well you're taking care of the baby, but then who... I'm left on my own here feeling isolated from you."

Dave Wilson: "What about me?"

Ann Wilson: Katie, I'm understanding. That’s not on your mind. Your physical relationship isn't necessarily at the utmost part of your mind right now because you're thinking, "How am I nursing this baby?" and your hormones are shifting. What were you feeling?

Katie Voetberg: Elisha told me every single day I was beautiful, every single day our first year of marriage. And then we have the baby, and he just stopped complimenting me. And I think part of it was because I was walking around the house in this jumper trying to get as easy access for nursing as possible.

Dave Wilson: In fact, Elisha, you got to tell the story. Maybe you don't want to, but you wrote about it. I laughed out loud when I heard what you said to her when she was talking about nursing.

Elisha Voetberg: Oh, sure. I’d say this is not one of my better moments. I'm going to go ahead and say that with this one. I had just gone back to work and I came home and Katie was pretty broken down with how challenging it was to nurse our firstborn, Leon. And he was really little, so we were watching his weight and of course there’s an added amount of stress with that.

I do remember trying to encourage Katie and saying, "Well, you know, you had a cow growing up. You know how much work it took to milk the cow. Just think about that." And I think for some reason, Katie feeling like she was being compared to a milk cow didn't sit well with her.

Ann Wilson: I did laugh out loud too when I read that. I can’t even imagine, Katie, what were your thoughts when he said that?

Katie Voetberg: Oh my goodness. I think I probably just cried. I just cried all the time. And it was so funny because he’s just looking at me like, "Okay, so apparently women go from being this fun person to just this emotional mess for the rest of their lives," and he’s thinking I'm just going to cry at every milestone of this kid’s life.

Ann Wilson: And they're walking around in these jumpsuits. Mine were just sweatpants. Exactly. No fashion sense, no self-dignity. I had no dignity at that point. I was just there.

Welcome to every single parent. Don't you think every parent faces that? Unless the time you started recognizing your mom, how many kids had she already had? Did you talk to her? Did she go through any of that at the beginning, do you think?

Katie Voetberg: It's so funny, I have never even talked to her about her specific experiences having me and my couple other siblings. But I remember when we showed her the books, we had her proofread them, and she was like, "I wish I had read this." So I have to assume that there was something in there that she resonated with too.

Dave Wilson: Both of you have gone through being a mom and exactly what you just said about especially number one and how hard it is. There’s a mom listening that is maybe having their first and struggling with all the things you're saying. What would you say to them? And then I want Elisha to speak to the dads, but what would you say to the moms?

Katie Voetberg: If you're already in it, there’s no time to really prepare because you're already there. And so just know that this is a season and it does end. I think that’s something that we can forget a lot as parents or just a lot in our marriages. Life is not a straight uphill climb. And so there's lots of dips and valleys in it.

This is a hard season and you're in it. And it feels like you aren't sleeping and you don't feel attractive and maybe you and your spouse aren't communicating well, but it does end if you just keep putting in the effort. Even if it seems like a long time. When you're in the thick of a hard season, a day, two days, that can seem like a really long time. And then you look back and are like, "Oh, that was eight weeks." I think of the fact that women go through nine months of a pregnancy, have a delivery at the end, which is really painful, and then do it all again. It's like we forget how hard the hard was, and that’s why we keep going. Embrace it, make the best out of this season that you're in and know that it ends and you'll probably do it again.

Ann Wilson: I would agree with that and give yourself grace. But also to know too that some women are entering into postpartum and it's really deep and dark. I’ve had friends and even some of my friends' daughters go through that where I think the greatest step too is to talk about it, to tell people, "This is what I’m feeling. I’m scared sometimes about what I’m feeling," but to talk about it with a mom, somebody that you can trust even spiritually.

And I think too, maybe some people don't agree, but see a doctor. Sometimes our hormones are so messed up to find that out, and medication can sometimes really be helpful too. But talking about it is important because there's a lot of women that are walking through that same thing.

Dave Wilson: What would you say to us men? Elisha and I are just like—I mean, I can relate to what you felt. It's like, I don't know what to do. I can make a cow comment too. I'm not sure what she needs from me right now. And I responded probably the wrong way as well. I responded like I started the program, like, "What about me? I'm like number 101 now in the family." Talk to the guys, what is the best thing we can do to come alongside our wives when they're going through this?

Elisha Voetberg: Katie already mentioned it's a season. And for me, when I simplified things and I looked at the most important things in life, sometimes crazy seasons can help you do that. You think, "Okay, we're not going to make Bible study every week, and we might not even make it to church, and I might miss the open gym that I’m used to going to." Then you start breaking down. You think, "Wait, what are the core things in my life that I can really take control of right now?"

And you get in God’s word and you're edified by that. When we talk about being transformed by the renewing of your mind, that’s a daily thing, getting in God's word. And as a husband, I think I would get bogged down. It would be day four or five or six or 18 in the house, and people are bringing you food and you're eating out all the time and your workout routine's thrown off, you don't know when your quiet time’s going to be, and I just wouldn't feel like I was equipped at all to have clarity when it came to being a spiritual head.

First and foremost, you need to be sensitive to the reality of your wife's situation. It is carnage. I tell you what, that is a crazy thing that happens when a child enters the world. And to be able to walk with her in that and seeing that, my respect for my wife went through the roof in a huge way. She became a celebrity to me in that time after our baby entered into the world.

But being also sensitive to that and being sensitive to the reality that her body is—there's a physical thing that’s taken place here. There's a physical healing that needs to take place and then there's going to be emotional things that you aren't going to be able to wrap your mind around at all. And I think that was really big for me is not taking it personally when Katie needed to lean on other women because we had talked about that need to be one and that need to be the person that we go to. But there were things where Katie's talking to me about what she's feeling or not feeling and she's trying to figure it out and I’m giving her a blank stare and I’m trying to be a problem solver and saying, "Well, let's find a verse in the Bible." And there's never a bad time to go to God's word, of course. But really what she was probably needing wasn't necessarily somebody solving the problem in that way. And not taking it personally when she felt like she needed to call her mom or call an older woman in the church and talk things out.

Katie Voetberg: Yeah, well when you mention your priorities, I do think you leading yourself was still helpful for us. Because when one person's really depleted and then the other person, I feel like this is a time where Elisha just started expecting less from me. Sometimes we can expect our spouse to fill certain needs that we have and that’s a blessing in marriage that we can fulfill each other's needs, but ultimately we have to be filled by Christ.

And there's a season there where I wasn't filling as many of Elisha's needs. And so I felt like when you became a lot more sustaining in your own relationship with Christ and even things like working out for you kept your mental health in a good place, eating well, going to bed at a decent time—he just became the source of strength for me and for us. It gave me this season to be able to focus on recouping and not really feel pressure to prioritize him in the same way. Although that is something that we did talk about because I do think it is important for wives to still show their husbands, even if it's in little ways, that they are still a priority. I think that’s actually really important in marriage in the postpartum season.

Ann Wilson: Elisha, you talked about that you weren't the greatest communicator, and even in your book you talk about tool number one: what not to talk about. I was laughing: number one jobs, number two housing, and number three moving.

Elisha Voetberg: Yeah, like I said, I kicked into problem-solving mode. And so we made some life-altering decisions in that eight-week period that, by God's grace, haven't been too detrimental to our life, but they probably weren't great decisions. And that is something that’s so crazy about this season. You think, "How long does it last?" And of course it's going to last a different length of time for everyone. And you think it's a small amount of time, but you can say extremely hurtful things that last a lifetime in that amount of time.

You can make decisions that the pain of is felt for a lifetime. And so I don't think that you can really treat this season too lightly. When you think about poor decisions, life-altering decisions in our life, it came in a season, it came in a moment of weakness, it came in a moment of not feeling clarity in where you're supposed to be heading. I guarantee your thinking's not clear. You don't have this clarity on "This is the direction the Lord's leading us in, this is what's important for our home," and that can lead to just making poor decisions. And part of that’s from no sleep. Exactly. Just the physical reality of not thinking clearly because of the lack of sleep.

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One of the things you do in both of your books is the expectations. Help our listeners understand because you give a lot of very practical ways to communicate and think through this season of your life. So help our listeners know what does that look like? Like the expectations chart and...

Ann Wilson: You even had 25 questions to ask before you go into labor. I was looking at those, Dave, I thought, did he ask any of these things? We weren't smart enough.

Katie Voetberg: Well, it's funny, we start out the book with expectations being one of the biggest pain points of postpartum because really if you have expectations, just communicate them ahead of time, then you have a place to work from. So you can pivot afterwards and be like, "Hey, I know we had this conversation and this is what we thought we wanted. I'm not feeling that way anymore, so let's try this." But at least you're starting from this shared point of view and you aren't trying to find that shared point of view when you're both emotional or sleep-deprived or one of you is struggling mentally.

We formulated these workbooks based off of what we felt like we needed to work through. Like the 25 questions are like, these are all the things we should have talked about before. And then you're trying to talk about these things after when emotions are high and sleep is low, and it's a communication disaster. And it's the same thing with the expectation translator. Actually, Elisha and I were working together at this time and this was a business tool that we took from our business coaching at the time and we reformatted it to reflect our expectations in other areas of life. Because we're like, this is how we get on the same page with business, and we can use this in other areas of our life.

We found that when we're writing down our expectations of even simple things like, "Oh, I had this expectation my mom was going to come stay at my house for a week after the baby." And now we're in this tiny two-bedroom apartment and Elisha has his mother-in-law there 24/7. It's just like, "What do I do?" And so there's all these things where when I wrote them down, I was able to clarify my own thoughts and then we would show these papers to each other and I'd be like—we noticed the discrepancies in there.

Ann Wilson: What were some of the discrepancies?

Elisha Voetberg: Yeah, that was one. I think I love my mother-in-law, but again it was a small space. And then I think the involvement from our church. We were blessed with an amazing Christian community, and I think that early on their love and support became overwhelming, which is a crazy privileged place to be in. A lot of people feel isolated and alone in that season of postpartum. But we had our church and our small group wanting every day, multiple times a day, to come by and bring meals and show support.

Katie Voetberg: And see the baby too. So it was social hour every day and we're both pretty introverted and I wasn't feeling at my best. Because you want to look halfway decent with some clothing on and I don't want to be this bedraggled person like, "Hey, I just had a baby, things aren't going so well."

Elisha Voetberg: Getting on the same page there then gave me the playbook on how to then engage with people from our church. And I was able to text and say, "Hey, today’s not a good day. If anybody wants to come by, this is the day that you can come by and meet the baby." But Katie and I were able to be on the same page with that rather than just being receptive to anything and trying to react and not knowing even if Katie wants to see these people. Because if it were up to me I’d tell them all to get lost, but maybe Katie wants that support.

Katie Voetberg: That's the thing. People don't know how to help either if you haven't set clear expectations for your community. So are you expecting help and no one's expecting to give it to you? Or are they expecting to give you a lot of help and you're like, "Okay, I’m feeling a little over-helped."

Physical intimacy after the baby, talking through that. What are your expectations for that? What are your expectations for just things romantically? We had friends who—the wife didn't want to go on a date without the baby, her game plan was two years, and the husband was thinking in a couple weeks we could just get a babysitter. So those are things that it's helpful to talk about.

Or sleeping. Are you planning on co-sleeping? Because that's going to be something you're going to want to talk about with your spouse before you have the baby in the bed with you. Or do you have that expectation of your husband getting up with you through the night every time you're nursing or bottle-feeding the baby? Are you going to share those duties or is someone going to take it and run with that? Those were just different things that we had to discuss and a lot more.

Ann Wilson: We wrote down a couple of them too. I thought they were really smart. Like, what role do you see your parents playing in our lives after the baby’s born? How do you feel about children sleeping in our room or our bed? Who are you comfortable with allowing to watch our child? Do you feel our marriage is ready to take on new strains or should we look into conferences or counseling before the next baby arrives? Those are just super wise things to talk about before the baby comes. When, as you said, your emotions aren't high, you're sleep-deprived. It's so much better to have those conversations then.

Dave Wilson: How do you do it now? We talked earlier about your marriage being a priority. Like even when you just said the wife wants to take her baby for two years, I’d be like, that’s a really bad decision. Again, I’m not telling everybody how to live, but you want to make your marriage a priority, you've got to let go for an evening or an hour or whatever it is to say to my husband, "You're number one. You'll always be number one. Our marriage is always going to come first." So how are you navigating that world? Because you've got a houseful. So is your marriage something that you are able to keep as a priority?

Elisha Voetberg: Yeah, and we do make great efforts to do that. Early on in our marriage we lived close to family that were extremely supportive and taking the kids, which is a huge blessing if you've got that, that they want to take even if it's a newborn, they want to take them and you can go away for a date night. And our parents were really supportive in that.

We're currently living in a town where we don't have that family support. Honestly we—on our list when we moved to this town of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho and we knew we didn't have any family, it was find a church, find a babysitter that we could really trust. And we did, and it's got to be a decision that’s made with wisdom and discernment and you want to scrutinize the person that's coming in to care for your children. But we prioritized that early on.

And then I love that Katie especially sets the expectation for our children that Mommy and Daddy, if we're in the conversation—we're not going to blow the kids up—but they know that if we're talking about something important, it's to their best interest if we get stuff sorted out. It's to their best interest when we are on the same page and when we are walking in unity. And we want to not just say that to our children, we want to exemplify that and truly prioritize it. So even if it doesn't mean getting away for a Weekend to Remember conference and having your kids taken care of—

Dave Wilson: Nice throw. Thank you.

Elisha Voetberg: But maybe it does mean making sure that all the kids are in bed at a certain hour so that you can count on that two and a half hours in the evening to talk stuff through. Or maybe it means getting up earlier before the kids. But it's something that we've prioritized and I think there's always a way to be able to prioritize that in a practical manner.

Katie Voetberg: Yeah, I think for us quality time is really big, so date nights are big. And then if we want to be spontaneous, the kids can watch something, the baby can sit in their pack and play, it's a safe place for them. And I feel like Elisha and I are still able to show each other, "Hey, we've got this house with a bunch of kids and it's crazy, but you're still a priority to me." And the conditions will never be ideal when you have this many kids in the home. So somehow make it a priority.

Ann Wilson: You guys, this has been really helpful and really wise. I'm just looking at all their lists of things. I'm thinking of "If you aim at nothing, you'll hit it." And many of us parent just making it through the day without really any kind of plan for our marriage, with our walks with God or discipleship. And you guys have put together these books to really help couples navigate a difficult time. So thanks for doing that.

Dave Wilson: This is FamilyLife Today and we've really enjoyed having Elisha and Katie Voetberg with us today with their two books. One is called *After the Baby: For Her* and the other is *After the Baby: For Him*. And we've got them both in the show notes. Just click that link at FamilyLifeToday.com and you can buy one or both or several.

Ann Wilson: We would love to pray for you. I would personally love to pray for you, and we even have a team at FamilyLife that can pray for you. Just go to FamilyLife.com/PrayForMe.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in Him.