FamilyLife Today®

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Job one for every Christian parent is what?

Ann Wilson: Raise your kids to love Jesus.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Every Christian parent lays in bed at night, prays, frets, worries, and feels anxious, especially in this day and age. What do I need to do? How do I need to be to have a son or daughter who, when they're 20, 18, or 16, is still standing for Christ?

Ann Wilson: Every parent longs for it and prays for it. This is your segment today. You're going to be really excited about our series coming up.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: We've got a doctor in the house! Dr. Collin Outerbridge.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Outerbridge. Outer like space, bridge like the Golden Gate.

Dave Wilson: And you are a doctor in what we're talking about today. Talk about your dissertation.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: My wife and I planted a church a couple of years ago with a real passion and desire to reach the next generation. We wanted to learn a bit about what the research shows the next generation is looking for in a kind of community and a kind of church.

We decided to focus that effort not just in planting a church but also by understanding academically what the next generation needs. I wrote my dissertation on looking at unchurched and de-churched Gen Z communities across the country, and we identified some key characteristics that would be helpful in connecting them to the good news of Jesus.

Ann Wilson: Collin, were you surprised when you were studying this and going over the stats? Were you surprised at all, or were you thinking this is what you figured?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: In my pastoral work, what we saw ahead of time was confirmed academically. When the research identified these clear points of disconnection for the next generation, it was helpful in that it created a dynamic where we could think strategically about creating the kind of community where people that are still spiritual and interested in faith—but maybe disinterested in church—might be able to find the kind of community they were looking for.

Ann Wilson: Are you and your wife thinking about this for your kids? You’ve got four.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Absolutely. We feel like we're right in the middle of it, trying to help our kids discern and navigate a new world and a new culture that is very different than the one that we grew up in. We're trying to think about how to create the conditions where they can see and follow Jesus and know that it's not only a courageous thing to do but the best thing to do for their life.

Dave Wilson: I watched you give a series on this whole idea. I'm guessing a lot of what you said in that series came from what you learned in your dissertation. What are some of the things that jumped out of that?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: There's a lot of research right now around why young people are disconnecting from church, deconstructing their faith, and perhaps even de-converting. I don't find that there was a great theological framework for how parents can understand the playbook that's being utilized to lead to those types of undermining moments in faith for kids.

Parents need a framework that allows them to be able to understand, discern, and put language to what's actually happening to their kids. It can be so disorienting when your kid comes home and says they're not sure they believe in this anymore, especially if they were the youth group superstar. Or they go to college and say they think they're out on faith, and you remember going on mission trips with them when they were kids.

Ann Wilson: You remember they were seven and they gave their life to Jesus and got baptized, and now they're questioning everything.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: You had the privilege of being a part of that story. Parents can feel like they're getting hit by a ton of bricks with this news. The question that I've been asking is, what does it look like for us to get upstream? What does it look like for us to identify what's happening in the lives of our kids so that, as parents, we can help them navigate that in a way that's proactive as opposed to reactive?

Dave Wilson: That's where the idea for the series came. Walk us through looking at King Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon in the Old Testament. Tell us where that came from.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: One of the key things that we were discovering is as parents are responding with fear about their kids walking away from faith, we began to evaluate the scriptures and ask if this is new or if this is old. There's a belief that we have that our enemy is not a creator; our enemy is a copycat.

As we thought about that, the question became whether God gives us a clue, a framework, or an insight into the strategy that the enemy is using to undermine faith. When we came to Daniel chapter one, we found that the story of Babylon and the story of Daniel really is the game plan that the enemy's been using for generations to undermine faith in young people. Being able to clarify that allowed us to begin to think about how we can put this in a practical way for families so that they have language to discern what's going on in their own homes.

Dave Wilson: The title, if I'm right, was "New Days, Old Place."

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: New Days, Old Place. That's exactly what it is. What happens in Daniel is still happening.

Dave Wilson: Walk us through it.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Daniel is a Hebrew boy; he's a teenager. King Nebuchadnezzar has raided Jerusalem. They have taken all of the high-talent, high-capacity, high-potential Hebrew people and relocated them to Babylon. King Nebuchadnezzar is an expert at ending civilizations and making people Babylonian.

What we find in Daniel chapter one is the game plan that he used to make people that used to be one culture his culture. There's a one-to-one correlation here. If you look at the Old Testament, oftentimes Old Testament characters are archetypes for spiritual realities. For example, Israel is a sign of God's people, and in the New Testament, we find that we are still the people of God.

Hosea is another great Old Testament example of a relationship that God has with those that are unfaithful to him while he remains faithful. In Revelation 14, Babylon is used to describe the culture of the kingdom of our enemy. When we look at Babylon in the Old Testament, we're actually getting a picture into the spiritual realities of how the enemy tries to accomplish his purposes in every generation.

Dave Wilson: Walk us through the elements.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: In Daniel chapter one, in seven verses, there are five key elements that our enemy uses to create a new kind of culture in the life of our kids that is antithetical to the culture of the kingdom. Imagine these Hebrew boys taken out of the language that they know, the community that they know, the God that they have worshipped, and placed in a new city.

The goal for Babylon was to rule the entire world. They knew that they couldn't start a war with every single culture to pull that off. The best way to win the world was to just make everyone Babylonian. Nebuchadnezzar's game plan was to take these Hebrew boys and, over time, kill their faith one generation at a time.

Step number one: fictionalize the faith. Nebuchadnezzar takes a couple of articles from Israel and places them in the place of worship in Babylon. It's such an interesting picture that Nebuchadnezzar doesn't try to end the faith by destroying all of the figures and points of reference for the Jewish people. He knows that would spark outrage. Instead, he tries to create a dynamic where the faith of the Israelites is like the faith of any other community in the population.

Ann Wilson: So in the temple, he took things out of the temple and brought them into Babylon?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Exactly. The goal there is to create a world where you don't have to lose all of your faith, you just have to forget it. D.A. Carson has this great quote: "What one generation believes, the next generation forgets, and the third generation denies."

Babylon has a long-term view here. The goal is to just get you to forget, and by the time the next generation is raised up, they'll deny the faith that your family once believed.

Ann Wilson: What do you think that looks like today?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: It looks like minimizing and fictionalizing the faith. We need to be careful when we see culture telling Old Testament stories and spending a lot of money to make really popular movies that don't actually tell the biblical story. What ends up happening in the cultural imagination is that those stories that we hold to be true become fictional.

Because we live in such a biblically illiterate culture, our young people begin to connect their imagination not to the stories of scripture but to whatever version the media has put out there. That's step one, because what grandma and grandpa used to believe, the next generation forgets. They don't know the true story of the scripture, and then we're just one generation away from people denying that story ever being true.

Dave Wilson: If I'm a parent and I'm trying to understand this with my own kids, what's my strategy?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: The strategy is to open up conversations with your kids about what is happening. As we look at the elements that are involved in undermining faith in our kids, the key is asking questions that help a young person understand what is happening to them.

For example, if you see a story being told about the faith that's halfway true but not all the way true, instead of just saying that they're telling the story and that's good enough, we should lean in as parents. We should ask what about that story is true and what is untrue. We should ask what message the media is trying to get into their heart that might be counter to the message that God wants them to have.

Ann Wilson: Have you had to do that with your kids?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Absolutely. We love to watch their shows or watch content that is connected to the world that they're in. One of the primary things we do afterward is ask what the message being conveyed was.

Ann Wilson: So you're not saying we're never watching anything?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Actually, we have the opposite approach. With my oldest daughter, we actually give her the "aux cord." We let her play all of the music in the car. If I'm driving to and from practice with her, she puts on her music, and I do my best to not be judgmental about it.

That's how I know I'm getting older, because it's a little bit harder for me. I walk out and it's a headache and the same repetitive tune over and over again. But I want to create an environment where I can ask my daughter what message that lyric is trying to communicate to her. I can ask what that tells her about her identity and if that is in alignment with what God says she is.

Creating a framework where my daughter can discern what the message is is more important than trying to create a world that she's inevitably going to step into that has a message for her. If I haven't given her the tools to discern what is true, right, good, and beautiful, I'm setting her up for failure.

Dave Wilson: If you did the opposite, which some Christian parents do by saying they're never listening to that because it's evil, what are they going to do? They're going to listen to it in secret. You're saying you're going to step into their world with them and have a conversation. That's key.

Ann Wilson: Especially with teenagers. If they ask why they can't see a movie or listen to certain music, and you just say because you're the parent and because you said so, you're missing this great season where you're conversing about God's Word and what it means. You're creating biblical thinkers in your home.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Research verifies that young people who hold on to faith grow up in environments where that's the very thing that happens. It's not just a picture that we have in the Old Testament teachings about how we're supposed to relate to our kids—integrating faith into every aspect of life—but it's also what academic research points to as an incredibly important part of young people keeping their faith.

Ann Wilson: Let me just add that if I have a 15-year-old that wants to see an R-rated movie, I know that I'm going to say no, but I will not start out with my no off the bat. I'll just say, "Tell me about the movie. What are you thinking about it?" Just to have the conversation is really important. I know that I'm going to say no in the long run.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: But did we keep the conversation going? That's the most important piece. We wrote about it in this wonderful book, "No Perfect Parents," about when teenagers live in the question. It's the time to let them explore that.

Dave Wilson: We did the opposite early on with cassette tapes. Whether it was Blink-182 or somebody, we had the hammer. We said they were never listening to that.

Ann Wilson: He's talking about me. I overreact many times, but I've learned the hard way. I did the same thing where there were times I said things were of the devil and we were burning them. That can be true, but the way we approach it is really important.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: You can get the same outcome, but the question is what the process was to get there. Research consistently shows that as parents, we are the primary influence in the spiritual direction of our child's life. Every data point clearly suggests that.

But the second piece is also just as valuable. The moment our kids stop talking to us because they feel like our response is not going to be one of grace, kindness, compassion, or curiosity, they don't stop thinking or questioning or wondering about faith. They just redirect those questions to someone other than you. There's a whole entire world and a whole entire internet that is willing to give them answers that might direct them away from the very thing that you would have told them.

The question is not "Will the culture influence your kid?"; the question is "When will the culture influence your kid?" Will you have a relationship with your child that allows them to know that when this is happening, they can go to you for advice and wisdom and trust that you have their best interest in mind?

Step one is fictionalize the faith. If I can get the faith to be just a part of your life rather than the core value, then as generations progress, the faith will be forgotten and the next generation will deny it. But the second step is gather the influencers. This was Nebuchadnezzar's play. He took all of the handsome, young, smart Jewish men and brought them into his court to get them away from their families and their community. If he could get the influencers to become Babylonian, then everyone would follow them.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Malcolm Gladwell points this out in his book, "The Tipping Point." He says the way you shape culture is by getting just 10% of the culture to buy in. If you get the right 10%, you win the game. In many ways, that's what's happening in the 21st century.

We have an actual job called "influencer" that exists in the culture. It's creating a dynamic where what people are doing on social media has a profound effect on what young people believe to be true, good, and beautiful. When we think about where our kids are being influenced, we've got to recognize that the loudest voice in their head may not be ours. If we've made it difficult for them to trust us with their questions, they will find an answer somewhere else.

Ann Wilson: We usually say that your window of opportunity and influence in your child's life is wide open until they're around 12 or 13. They're still listening to you, but now they're listening to a lot of other voices. To keep that relationship open is critical.

Around that age, they're starting to hear other things and think about other things. They probably respect you and your wife, but now they're looking around deciding what they believe and what their faith is.

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: That's why having people that are not us in their life who they think are cool is so important. Sometimes the most important voice in the life of my child becomes the 24-year-old small group leader who my daughter thinks is so awesome.

We want that leader to be saying the same thing that mom and dad would say. I'm seeing this happen right now. My daughter will come home and tell me what her small group leader said, and she thinks she needs to implement it in her life. In my mind, I know her mother and I have been saying the same thing for years, but we've learned to just smile and nod.

Kids need real-life friendships with people their age who they are following Jesus with, and mentors who are investing in their life. We also need to take responsibility as parents to recognize that we still have influence over who influences our kids.

For example, our daughter is the only girl in her grade who does not have a smartphone. She doesn't have a phone at all. We've made that decision because we still have control over the influencers in our daughter's life. We recognize that an algorithm exists on social media to keep her engaged because she's the product businesses are trying to sell to. We're not going to allow our daughter to have her own social media account until she's 18, after we've coached her on the implications of what that means.

Ann Wilson: What would you say to the parents whose 11-year-old has a smartphone because they finally gave in after being asked over and over?

Dr. Collin Outerbridge: Every parent has to make the decision that they think is best for their kid. We have made that decision because we see the research. Handing an adolescent girl a phone is like handing her a bottle full of pills that could end very badly. It's addictive and it's also terrible for self-image.

It shapes identity in ways that lead to negative outcomes. We know of stories of families whose children were nudged into self-harm and suicidal ideation, and some have even lost their children. When they go back and look at why, it was because of what the algorithm was telling their kids to do.

Our daughter doesn't have access to a smartphone. In many ways, the reason why she participates with this is because we're trying to create an environment where we say yes as much as possible to things that don't have a big impact on her life. That way, when we say no, she knows that it's really for her good.

Her friends think it's ridiculous that she can't have a cell phone, but we allowed her to pierce the top end of her ear at 13. Her piercing has no real bearing on her emotional, mental, and spiritual health, but handing her a phone does. We want to say yes as much as possible so that when they hear no, they really do believe that mom and dad can be trusted.

Dave Wilson: I just want to say, way to go. We're grandparents now, so we're a little ahead. So many even Christian parents are just caving to the culture and not wanting to make the hard calls. Obviously, you've developed a relationship with your children where they trust you because they know you want the best for them.

The goal is not just that they know the greatest influencer; the goal is bigger than that. Parents, that is your job. Make the hard but loving calls to raise men and women of God. You've got to make some calls right now.

Ann Wilson: And it's not too late. It's never too late. God's always in it and he can always come through. This has been a great conversation with Collin Outerbridge.

Dave Wilson: We've got a great resource for you that helps with next-generation faith. It's our No Perfect Parents online course, and we also have our book, "No Perfect Parents." Go to familylifetoday.com and click on the link in the show notes. We'll see you tomorrow with Collin.

Ann Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in Him.