FamilyLife Today®

Melissa Kruger: Doing what the Bible says to do actually works. Throughout the scriptures, Jesus is teaching, "Hey, when your brother sins against you, here's how you do it." Even the Lord's Prayer: "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." It's presupposing we're going to have conflict. We're going to need forgiveness. Surely in the family unit, we as parents are going to have to say I'm sorry.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: For me, my contentment and joy in life was often based on how well they were doing.

Ann Wilson: No, this is mine! I felt like you were always great. Like, they're great, they're fine.

Dave Wilson: That was called denial. That's where I lived. But secretly I was fearful. If they were doing well, it was like I'm good because they were the source of my happiness, not my God.

Ann Wilson: I think every parent would say that. Melissa, is that true for you?

Melissa Kruger: Yes. You had to battle it, but that was the easiest place to default to. There's a saying: you're only as happy as your least happy kid. I talk about that in the book because that's a lot of pressure to put on the least happy kid.

Ann Wilson: I want to talk about that because I know we've put that pressure on our kids. When my joy and contentment is based on the actions of my kids or the things they're doing, what is that communicating? What does that say about myself and even my walk and trust with God? It's convicting just to say it.

Melissa Kruger: It is convicting to us all. We're all tempted to put our contentment in places that can't hold the weight of it. In other seasons of life, it was money, or marriage, or getting the perfect house. Then children come along and there's no bigger place where we're tempted to say, "This is where I'm putting all my eggs in the basket of contentment."

As parents, we have to fight it because that temptation is going to be there and it seems like such a good thing. In our hearts, it's right to want the best for our kids. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is I can't put my joy, my peace, and my contentment in how my child's doing. People wonder how to not do that.

Dave Wilson: In your book, *Parenting with Hope: Raising Teens for Christ in a Secular Age*, you do a great job. I told Ann when I was reading this, "Ann, this is the book we should have written." Our parenting book is good, but this is one of the best parenting books. I've read a lot of them and we wrote one. This is a book you want to get, especially with teens. You talk quite a bit about the idols. Explain that. This is insightful for parents.

I started with the premise: you think I'm going to tell you how to get your child sorted. It's really about the biggest problem in our parenting of teens: our own idolatry. By idol, I don't mean a little statue that we bow down and worship. I'm talking about where we put our hope, our trust, and what we think success looks like for our teen.

I think in our culture today in the West, the things pushing in on us as parents are scholastic achievement, sports and activities, and social acceptance. These three things are these cultural idols. Everyone has a pitching coach at five now. We see it in sports for sure.

The whole reason the sports culture rose was because you need to be well-rounded so that you can get into a really good school. Why do we care if they get into a really good school? Because studies have shown that kids who go to college have a higher income. We associate higher income with better life satisfaction.

Then we have this whole social acceptance pressing in on us to be culturally normal. In our culture right now, that looks like accepting and tolerant of every type of behavior that there is. Those things are pressuring our teens, but they're really pressuring us as parents. It is a lot to bear.

Things like the cell phone and what that's doing to our kids is part of that social connectedness that we're told we have to do with our teens right now. To push and be different is really tough. These three things are pressing in on us and we're in the stream. We're just floating along going downriver with culture because they're not overtly bad.

We tend to think it's sex, drugs, and rock and roll—that's our battle. I actually think it's these really good things that become "god things" in our life. They get in our heart in a way that they're not supposed to be, and they really rob us of joy. If my kid doesn't get into that school, if they don't make that team, if they aren't in the right group of friends, then our kid feels the weight of that.

Because they actually do love us, they love what we love. Even though they might act like they don't love us, they actually tend to follow the same idols of their parents. One of the verses that I fear the most is in 2 Kings. It says, "while they were worshiping the Lord, they were serving their idols. And their children and their grandchildren did the same."

Dave Wilson: You mention in the book about having a conversation with your kids and asking them, "What's important in our family?" We did that once. Maybe a couple times. We sat at the dinner table. We had three teenage boys. Mind you, we're in ministry. Dave's a pastor. All we talk about is Jesus, I felt like. So we assumed certain things would be said. The number one answer: sports.

Ann Wilson: Have you done it? I would have told you that's not going to be true of our family. Dave was the Detroit Lions chaplain, so obviously it makes some sense. My job was related to the sports world. But it was clear to them like, "This is what we do."

Dave Wilson: I remember when my youngest, who ended up getting a college scholarship and he's the one that got to the NFL, he was a really gifted athlete. At five years old, a soccer coach wanted him to play soccer. He wasn't playing soccer. He was playing baseball.

This guy said to me, "We really want Cody to play on the team." I'm like, "Yeah, we're doing three sports already." He goes, "Let me tell you. If he doesn't get on my team, he will never get a college scholarship." He's five years old! I think he was six years old. Are you kidding me? He's like, "You are making the biggest mistake ever."

Ann Wilson: This is the culture we're fighting as parents. You think, "Oh, if you're not on that travel baseball team, your son will never go to the next level."

Melissa Kruger: The pressure on parents is so intense. It's hard because I played sports in high school. Those were great memories. We want our kids to have those good things. We all know we have an obesity problem in this country at every level, so we think sports are good for them. And they really are. I never want to say sports are bad.

The culture around sports in America right now is really bad. That type of pressure—rather than, "Hey, go in the backyard, play with the neighborhood kids"—now there are no neighborhood kids to play with because they're all at travel baseball. It's a real problem.

Ann Wilson: But a parent's thinking, "That's better than video games all day long."

Melissa Kruger: I would actually agree with that. We've created this culture where those kind of good things are squeezing out really important things. I think now it's really hard for families to have family dinners. It's increasingly hard for kids to get to a youth group. It's even really hard for them to get to church because a lot of these travel teams take place on the weekend.

All these activities are squeezing out the things for life. Learning how to sit down and have dinner as a family with no phones on and have a conversation about how was your day—that's really important in the teen years.

Dave Wilson: Did you guys do that?

Melissa Kruger: We actually did. Our family time, what we prioritized, was breakfast. We didn't actually eat breakfast at the table, but we all sat at the table. Everyone had to be at the table at a certain time in the morning. That was when we prayed together and we read a devotional together.

People are like, "How did y'all make that happen?" I want to say it wasn't perfect. There were days we missed, and it took ten minutes. I had cards that had prayer requests for missionaries that we prayed for, for leaders in our life, for each person. We prayed for a different person.

What I can say about that time is I got to hear every one of my kids pray every week because every day a different person prayed. They were in the habit of praying for each other. We prayed for principals, we prayed for bosses, we prayed for presidents, we prayed for missionaries.

When these missionaries would come and visit, they'd be like, "Oh, that's Christine from Nepal. We've been praying for her." It builds community when you pray together. Here is something that takes ten minutes in a morning and it built so much community in our little family. It didn't take that long, but it gets squeezed out by trying to get everything else in.

Don't miss the really important rocks that your family desperately needs because you're trying to do what your neighbor's doing. It's not producing great results in our teens. They're anxious, they're fearful, they're scared. And I think they're getting it from us because we're so invested in them that it's almost like our kids are bearing the weight of that.

The simple act of praying together as a family teaches them, "Yeah, the world is a scary place, but we're going to pray about that." I've never seen my kids more desperate for prayer than in their teen years. They're very open. When you say, "How can I pray for you?" they have a long list because they're dealing with a lot of pressures, a lot of anxiety, a lot of things at school that they're struggling with, or friendships, or classes.

Ann Wilson: To ask that question—and Melissa, food is always a gathering place. We have three boys. When we had breakfast together, it was like I made something, they would eat, but then we'd pray on the way to school. It just became a habit. Putting those habits and rhythms in—I know it can sound daunting at first—but just make some space. Maybe it's dinner or bedtime, something that you just take a few minutes to see what's going on.

Dave Wilson: Let me just say this. We meet a ton of couples who say FamilyLife helped them when they needed it the most. That's what being a FamilyLife partner is all about: helping others find that same encouragement and tools that you found right here.

Ann Wilson: And we'd love for you to join us. So click the donate button at familylifetoday.com and become a partner today.

Dave Wilson: Now here's my question for you, Melissa. How do we know if it's an idol?

Melissa Kruger: That's something we've got to each pray about and think about. I find it's how I react when I don't get it. If there's anger, frustration, tears, discontentment—if it's robbing me of joy, that's sometimes a sign maybe the problem is me.

And it's also what I spend my time pursuing. I would say time, money, and thought life. What am I thinking about? I remember one time I heard a speaker who said, "What do you think about when you're not thinking?" I've heard that asked too. Isn't that a good question? What am I ruminating on? I've asked my kids that too.

Dave Wilson: But your kids will know what Mom and Dad think about.

Ann Wilson: Oh, that's a good question. Kids, what do you think I think about the most?

Melissa Kruger: I know some of these things, even what we were just talking about with trying to find family rhythms for spiritual growth, can seem daunting. I do want to say if you haven't done those things, I think as moms—and I'm sure as dads—we carry around this weight of failure. Tomorrow's another day. Don't let what's happened in the past in your family be what determines the future.

I would go to my kids and say—let's say you've never had prayer together as a family and you've got teenagers—I would just go to them and say, "Hey, I'm realizing this is something I missed as a parent. And I want to say I'm sorry because there's a lot in this world we can't control. I'd really like us to pray together as a family. I know that might feel so weird, and I know y'all might think, 'What's going on with Mom and Dad?' but it's something I should have prioritized a long time ago. Could y'all help me figure out a way that we could do this together as a family?"

It invites them in. It acknowledges, "Hey, maybe we didn't do it right." Kids need to hear that from us. We need to be good apologizers as parents to our teens. They are learning so much from our example in that: that I come to you and say, "Hey, I'm sorry I didn't do it right." I think the more we step into that, we can make changes in these years. Don't think you missed it. If you missed it in the teen years, you can still do it with your 20-year-olds.

Ann Wilson: I'm so glad you said that. I was going to say the same thing of how to navigate that. I would add this, too: consider it like trying to open a door to their heart of even empathizing with their life. Like, "Man, I cannot imagine being a teenager in these days where the culture feels so chaotic, so crazy. I can't imagine. You carry a lot. I want to pray for you. I want to be able to be there and go to God for you on your behalf." Kids, whether they're believing in Jesus at that point or not, they're like, "Help me. Somebody help me."

Dave Wilson: I know that our listeners have heard me say this, so I'll keep it short, but two of my sons said to me as adult men and married now, out of nowhere at a lunch—I could tell halfway through the lunch, "Oh, they've talked and they've set up this lunch." They both said, "Dad, we felt like the congregation was more important to you than us." Thousands of people were more important than them.

It was one of those moments where the second it came out of their mouth, I knew they were right. It wasn't like, "I'm going to defend myself. What do you mean?" I asked questions like, "What do you mean by that?" but it was one of those moments where I had to say, "I am so sorry."

But what Ann just said—guess what? We're not done. Even though they're not in the house anymore, I can still be a better dad for the next twenty years and I'm going to do that. So the apology, like you said, that is huge for our kids to hear us own up to our mistakes.

Melissa Kruger: What a powerful moment it was for them to get to say it to you and you to be able to say, "I'm sorry."

Ann Wilson: Dave's really good at receiving that kind of criticism because I'm an idiot and I know it! No, but not everybody is okay with hearing hard things from our kids.

Dave Wilson: It is hard. I'm not saying it was easy. But like you said, when we apologize, that vulnerability and humility opens up a relationship that they will lean into rather than lean away from.

Melissa Kruger: It's amazing when you get to, "Wow, doing what the Bible says to do actually works." Jesus is actually teaching, "Hey, when your brother sins against you, here's how you do it." Even the Lord's Prayer: "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." It's presupposing we're going to have conflict. We're going to need forgiveness. Surely in the family unit, we as parents are going to have to say I'm sorry.

Ann Wilson: What did you do for that devotional time in the morning? You said it only took a few minutes. What exactly did you do?

Melissa Kruger: We did a lot of different things through the years. We found some good devotionals from different places that weren't actually for teens; they were just general devotionals. We used some of those. Tim Keller has some good ones, just his on the Psalms. He has one on wisdom. Really short, but very biblical, really good.

Right now we're using Alistair Begg's daily devotional. What I found: kids can actually go to that level. You don't have to have one, especially in the teen years. Maybe in the 10 or 11 you might do something a little more accessible for kids, but the teen years—these kids are reading hard things in high school. They're thinking deep things.

They can really rise to the occasion and really think through it. We've also just read through scripture. I loved we did the Gospel of John one year. I started it with, "How do you tell a good lie?" They were like, "What do you mean, how do you tell a good lie?"

I was like, "What do you do if you're going to tell a good lie?" We talked about how you shouldn't tell many facts, you shouldn't name names, you should be really careful about how you tell a good lie. I said, "I want you to read the Gospel accounts. If they're telling a lie, they're really bad liars. They give way too many details. They tell cities they went to, they tell people they talked to. I want you to think about that as we read through the Gospel of John."

Ann Wilson: We're all like, "I want you to be my mom!"

Melissa Kruger: It's almost like you're doing apologetics with your kids in secret. We should never assume that they know these things. I did feel badly. My daughter got to college and she goes, "Yeah, I realized I went through Christian school and was raised by y'all and I don't know that I was ever taught how to study the Bible." You're like, "Oops, okay, that's really bad." Because we did devotionals, but we never really talked about observation, interpretation, and application. So we all miss things. All of us miss things. Thankfully she got to college ministry where they're teaching how to actually study the Bible. We all need that.

Dave Wilson: I think it's interesting. We started talking about how our kids can be an idol. Really their walk with God as Christian parents determines our happiness. I think a couple things. One, I always used to preach this: idols never deliver. Even if they made the team or got all the A's or got the scholarship, it still won't deliver. You'll never be happy.

But I think the thing we often forget, I forgot, is the goal often for us as Christian parents is, "I want a teenager who's walking with God so well." If they're thirty years old and walking with God, but they weren't at fifteen, I'm good with that. At fifteen, the mistakes they made were part of the things God used to get them to be a man or a woman of God at 25 and 30 and 35. But when they're making those mistakes and they're in your house, you're freaking out because you think that's the end goal. No, it might be part of the way God's going to...

Melissa Kruger: We get so worried and fatalistic about the mistakes our teens are making when honestly, in the long run, that could be driving them to the Father. It's such a short season. This is the season: keep the door open. One thing I'll say about that though: watch how you respond when other kids are doing bad things too.

Ann Wilson: Oh, I was so bad at this. I was so bad at this! Keep talking. What do you mean?

Melissa Kruger: If they hear you say, "Oh, Johnny. I knew Johnny was going to go bad. We all knew Johnny was bad," and they hear this negative talk about your friend Johnny who's doing these things and how he's not redeemable in some ways... if they make a mistake, how you talked about Johnny is how they're going to assume that you would talk with them.

So it's just something to be careful about. Rather say, "Hey, maybe we should pray about Johnny. Because he really just needs to know Jesus."

Dave Wilson: And he's on a journey. And I'd just say, the things going on today in school... you have furries, so kids are thinking they're animals and it's so easy. The kids are transitioning. There's so much going on that you could roll your eyes about and be like, "What? That is lunacy! What kind of kid?" You can make so many...

And I've shared this before too. One of our sons was talking about a boy and here's what he said: "Is that the guy, like that bad kid that smokes pot all the time?" So if we can respond with love and grace—just all you have to do is read the Gospels and see how Jesus responded because he dealt with everyone in the same manner: respectful, loving, drawing them to the Father.

Melissa Kruger: This will sound impossible to be that kind of parent. The only way you become that kind of parent is abiding in this Book. The fruit of the Spirit is born by abiding. Jesus says, "If you abide in me and my words abide in you, you're going to bear much fruit." It's not that you start putting this fruit on. You don't start tying it to your tree, so to speak. It's born, but he's given us one method by which this happens: we plant ourselves in his Word. We pray. We're with the people in the church.

That's that foundation we need. We want that for our kids, but in this season, that's what we need. We need the Word nourishing our soul. We need prayer to give us hope. We need the community of the church so we have people who will stand with us in this so that we'll know we're not alone. But that's the only way that happens. It's impossible to do it in our own strength.

And let me just add: if you're listening and you're thinking, "I need prayer so bad," you can contact us. We will pray for you. We have a team that will pray for you. All you have to do is go to familylife.com/prayforme and we will pray for you.

Dave Wilson: Every parent needs that. Wow, that was another great conversation with Melissa Kruger. And again, her book, which you need to get or you know somebody that needs this book, it's called *Parenting with Hope: Raising Teens for Christ in a Secular Age*. You can get your copy right now by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

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