FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Research is clear. Like this isn't just a hunch or a hot take. Research is showing that the more money we spend on our kids in youth sports, the less they actually enjoy it.

Let that sink in for a second. The more money we spend on our kids, the data is saying the less fun our kids are actually having.

Speaker 2

Welcome to family Life today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us@familylife today.com. this is Family life today. Ed Usinski. Brian Smith in the studio.

Speaker 2

Are you happy they're here?

Speaker 3

Yeah. We're glad you guys are here. And we're going to talk about *Away Game*, a book you wrote about youth sports. You know, I endorse your book and I think I might have even said this in the endorsement. I don't remember.

But I started your book. I couldn't put it down. I read the whole thing because it was so, I think, needed for parents, especially of kids in youth sports.

And here's the thing, I'm not going to tell people how old we are, but we're old. You guys are in your 40s, maybe 57. Dude, there you go.

Speaker 1

We're old 43.

Speaker 3

But here's the thing. We bring up the topic of youth sports and memories and right away we all have strong memories and I bet we could.

Speaker 2

It's the power and pressure that sports brings. Yeah. Like if you're in it, you felt it. But now as parents, I think it's a hard one to navigate because it's all consuming now for sure. Different probably than all of us growing up. It's even more so.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And one of the things I was amazed when I picked up your book was you did a sort of, of a history of how we got to where we are. We're talking about youth sports in a day when most of the time we played in the backyard.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Sandlot games.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And then we had a game here and there now. And we have grandkids and I've been there on these fields and it's pressure. And it's four or five games a week and practice. And by the way, this conversation isn't just about parents in youth sports.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. Because kids can feel the pressure from us in their academics, big time grades, theater, musicals, anything.

Speaker 3

It's not just youth sports. And we are consumed as parents when our kids excel and they feel that, they feel it. So this is a conversation whether you have a kid in sports or in music or in School. This applies to all of us.

Speaker 2

Well, you guys know this. Take us there.

Speaker 3

Take us to how we got here.

Speaker 4

Look, the book does not read as a lecture. It reads more like a confessional. Yeah, because Brian and I looked up at each other a decade ago. We were already working together in sport ministry with college athletes, but we were both coaching, we both had kids that were entering the youth sport world, and we started having these conversations where it's like we don't know what we're doing and we're completely overwhelmed.

You're on this fast-moving train that you just had to jump on with your 8-year-old. You're not exactly sure where it's going, but it doesn't feel like it's to a good place, but we're going. And so we said there's, you know, as Christians even, how do we think and operate like Christians in this space? You know, we weren't trying to pull ourselves completely out of it. We didn't want to be completely swept up in it. But then what?

There's not a ton of teaching about how you do that well as a Christian. So we just started to talk about it with each other and started to do our own research, started to gather our own stories, made plenty of our own mistakes, and said let's start the conversation in the Christian space or at least add to the little that's there to say.

Here's a different way forward. Let's be countercultural in the sports, the youth, what we're calling the youth sports industrial complex. Let's find a way to just like in every other aspect of Christian life, trying to live in a secular society, let's be different. What would that look like?

Speaker 1

Yeah. And we say from the start we love sports like we're sports guys. And so when we come at this conversation, it's not like we're saying we need to completely eject from the process or there's. We don't want to go all bad on sport. We really do love all the beautiful moments that sports bring.

And so what we're trying to help ourselves but also parents realize is really two things. One, we want a growing awareness of just what the youth sport industrial complex is so we can have common language for it. We can recognize it when we see it, we can understand what it's trying to do to us, how it's shaping and forming us and our kids. But we don't want to just complain about it and bemoan just the truth of what it is today. We want to act Christianly in the space.

And so start by, let's have language and categories to understand it, but then let's learn how to use youth sport as a vehicle to actually disciple our kids. And that's a large part of what the book's about too, is how do you take the moments that are happening on the field, the court, the pool, and turn those into discipleship opportunities?

Because whether you're paying $100 or $1,000, it becomes a pretty worthwhile investment if your kid's actually learning how to be more patient and learning how to love and learning things like self-control. If all we're doing is throwing all this money into a system and hoping that they become a college athlete, that's not a good investment.

Speaker 4

We keep throwing the biblical character Daniel around that we really want to walk in his footsteps and do what he and his friends did. And obviously, they weren't doing anything with youth sports, but they were in an intensely secular culture in Babylon that was completely anti their God. They had to make a choice. Were they going to completely separate from it and create a holy huddle over here on the side, where they completely distance themselves from it? Or, on the other extreme, were they just going to say, "Hey, God doesn't seem to be active right now. Let's just go with the flow. When in Rome, do as Romans do." Right? Were they just going to get swept up in it?

No, they stayed right in the middle of it and showed what it looks like to be obediently involved. They walked with God in the midst of it and locked arms with each other. They didn't try to do it as individuals. So we think there's something to that too. You lock arms with a handful of other people that are saying, "On our watch, in our little corner of the bleachers, let's do this different."

Speaker 3

Is that what away game means, your title?

Speaker 1

Largely that it came from the biblical character Daniel, but also this idea of when you're playing a home game, there's just some, like, comfort, familiarity. When you go to an away game, you have to be on your game. Like, you don't know where the bathrooms are. I experienced this this year. Any football game you go to, the away section is always like, the sun is just shining bright in your face, and you're like, we actually sat with the home side when we were at away games because it's so miserable.

We think a large part of the problem is we, especially as Christian parents, go into the youth sport experience expecting it to be like a home game feel and expecting to have some semblance of control. Then the ref makes a bad call, or the coach doesn't give our kid playing time, or our coach messes up. We learn really quickly that we actually don't have any control over the process.

So the whole thing is like this away game. Just expect it to be a little chaotic and out of control.

Speaker 2

You guys both have kids?

Speaker 4

Four.

Speaker 2

Yeah, four kids.

Speaker 4

Four. Brian has three.

Speaker 2

Three kids. And I'm assuming they're in sports and we're in sports or are in sports. What was that experience like for you? Did you feel that pull? You said that a little bit.

Ed, what did that look like for you guys and your family, and what did the conversations sound like? I remember getting into this; I think our son was four. He didn't know anything. He's on the soccer field, our first son. And this mom goes, "Did you sign up for this, you know, the travel league?"

Like, no. She goes, "Oh, you better, because if you don't do it, he's never going to be able to go to the next level." And I remember saying to Dave, like, "Do we want him to go? Like what?" But you feel this pressure, so take us there.

Speaker 4

Well, that's a great thing to put on the table, that there's a whole bunch of different things that create pressure for us. But I wonder if the biggest one is this fear of not realizing an imagined future. You know, you've got this picture in your mind of what you want for him or for her, whether that's high school or it's in college or maybe even beyond. You've already, as a parent, started thinking about what that's gonna look like.

And so now we're gonna try to backfill as a 6-year-old. And again, we call it an industrial complex because it's a $40 billion machine that knows that we feel that way and says, "Oh, we've got what your six-year-old needs. If you want them to turn into that, whatever that is, you need to start focusing now. You need to specialize now. You have to pay money now; you gotta get with this team, this coach, go to this tournament across these three state lines. You gotta keep going. Every day you're not doing that, you're already behind."

And now that's happening with every single kid in every single sport at the same time. It really ends up being a lie. Again, I've got three kids now that are in college and one that's in ninth grade. So we keep saying, "I got one more chance to get this right. Right? Just one more chance." I was talking to Brian about it this morning. It's just a lie. Like you're not in control. Like how Brian used that word, control. We're not in control of their sport future as much as we think we are.

If they wind up being any good, it will be largely because God gave them a physical body that does things differently than the vast majority of other people. And you can't control that. And they've got a mentality that makes them different. They want to work on their left hand. They want to do the thing that other kids don't want to do to get better. And you can't make them do that, knowing that it should free us up to just go to the 10-year-old soccer game and enjoy watching her or him play. Instead of being constantly stressed that they're not performing at this level, they need to be performing as a 10-year-old so that they can get where we want them to be when they're 13, and then they can make their team when they're 17.

Speaker 3

Okay, so what's going on in that parent's mind? And you guys are parents so you can relate as a dad. But I mean, I coached in Michigan public high schools and I started middle school. So part of it is you coached.

Speaker 2

All the way through from like 8 year olds.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So you know what I'm gonna say. Cause I wanted to be there when my sons were on there as well. And then even after they went on to college, I stayed and I just wanted to be an influence in a public high school.

Speaker 4

You stayed in the same school at the same level I coached at the.

Speaker 3

Public high school, yeah, about four or five more years.

Speaker 4

But when your kids weren't there, you were still coaching in that space Because I was there.

Speaker 3

And I actually did a chapel for the school on Thursday nights before our Friday night games as well. So it was like amazing ministry. You know, these kids that never went to church and their families never went to church showed up every Thursday and listened to Pastor, Chaplain, Coach Dave talk about Jesus in a public high school. And then we had dinner.

But here's what I was going to say: you know when I helped out at middle school basketball, a lot of these kids, this is going to be their first thing. So we had tryouts, and I bet there were 50 or 70 boys coming into the gym. And you guys know this—in 30 seconds, I could eliminate all but 15 of them. Go home. There's no way you're ever going to make this team. You don't have the gift. There's no way. And their parents are over there thinking they're going to play in the NBA, and they would be mad at me right now for saying that I could judge them in 30 seconds.

As an athlete, you can tell. They don’t have what you said—God-given ability to do it. That doesn't mean maybe some of them can outwork it and be good, but most of them don't have it. And yet I know in high school, those parents are mad at me because their kid's not playing, and I'm like, I'm there with them every night, sir. He's not the best. You know what I mean?

So what happens to a parent? What's going on in a parent's mind when they can't see? Like maybe he's an artist, maybe he's, you know, I mean, he's got other gifts. She has other gifts. It's not this one. But they are convinced it has to be on the soccer field.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And this is when we talk about being formed and shaped by culture a lot. A lot of what sport culture is forming us by is telling us that we are one club away from our kid making it. We're one coach, we're a $1,600 bat away from our kid finally being able to hit it out of the park.

There's really never been a better time to be an entrepreneur than right now within the context of youth sports. Because well-intentioned parents really do want what's best for our kids. And so we want to make sure we say that too. Like a lot of these parents are not crazy; they're well-intentioned. But we've just been discipled so much by youth culture saying if you just pay a little bit more, if you just join this, if you just do that, then on the other end, you're going to have this all-star athlete who's going to get all these great opportunities.

And sports just doesn't work that way. So what I would say to these parents is that research is clear. Like this isn't just a hunch or a hot take. Research is showing that the more money we spend on our kids in youth sports, the less they actually enjoy it.

Speaker 2

Really.

Speaker 1

Let's let that sink in for that.

Speaker 4

Sink in.

Speaker 1

The more money we spend on our kids, the data is saying the less fun our kids are actually having.

Speaker 3

Oh, what's going on?

Speaker 4

Why is it? Think about why. Yeah, well, why do you think it is? Why do you think that might be.

Speaker 2

They feel the pressure? Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1

Yeah. You buy the kid the nice bat and you're traveling across state lines, and you switch from the normal rec league to now this club elite team. Again, well intentioned. There's going to be great opportunity for our kids, but the kids know something's going on.

As they get more and more investment into them, they're feeling like there's something on the line here. It's not just about play anymore. I actually have to perform, and that's really, really hard for college athletes to perform at that type of level when there's a lot of pressure.

We've taken almost a professional college level of sport and put it on 6 to 10 year olds, and they're crippling under it.

Speaker 2

You're listening to Family Life Today. I'm Ann Wilson, and before we continue with our conversation, I just want to remind listeners that our vision at Family Life is every home, a godly home, and we need your help to get there.

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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I've shared this story here before, but I was nine years old—no, I think I was ten—when I competed really well in a gymnastics meet. I came home with medals and ribbons. I had never placed so high in the all-around. My dad was a coach, and my brother was coaching and playing—not gymnastics, but baseball.

So they came home, and I told my mom, "Hey, I was in bed, but make sure you display all of my stuff." They came in, saw my stuff, and I said, "Make sure they wake me up." So they woke me up, and I said, "Did you see my medals? Did you see how I placed?" My dad and brother were both there, who were my heroes.

And my dad said, "Hey, we are the Barons. If you don't have a first place, don't come home because we are the best. Don't come home unless you're the best." I can't tell you the crippling pressure that put on me. It took all the joy away—every bit of it. I was paralyzed competing. That's what you're talking about.

Speaker 4

Paralyzed competing. And if we can even go here. I mean, I wonder what that did to your view of the gospel and your ability to embrace the idea.

Speaker 3

I can tell you because I live with her.

Speaker 4

Well, that's. That's why you have a marriage ministry now.

Speaker 3

Right? There's a sense of performance.

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 3

She's always had. We've had conversations about this. God, you know, it's like she's driving, driving, driving. I'm like, I think she has grace.

Speaker 2

I don't get the grace part.

Speaker 4

We don't realize again. So let's just. Let's speak as parents. I don't think we realize that with great intentions. And Brian's always good about pointing this out. It's with. For most of the parents.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Their hearts are great.

Speaker 2

We love our kids.

Speaker 4

We love them. We want the best for them. We want them to have something better than we had. We're haunted by our own regrets, and we don't want them to have to experience those things. We want to protect them from those sorts of things.

And so what we inadvertently wind up doing is we put them under a performance pressure because we want them to get someplace. We want them to achieve something. And what it ends up doing is inadvertently.

And you said it. It paralyzes them. They may not be able to say it. It's a rare kid that can articulate, "This is stressing me. Dad, stop doing it."

Speaker 2

I never said one thing to anybody.

Speaker 4

No, you'll end up saying it to him. It ends up years later. Comes out years later in your marriage when you have kids and you start taking some of that unresolved stuff out on them again. That's where it gets really deep. Right?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 4

So what if we as parents, and this is the other thing Brian and I say, we're not talking about being participation trophy people. No. We want to pursue excellence. Yes. There is a place for performance. Of course. Yes. We want our kids to try to do their best.

But what if we left that to the coaches? And what if we as parents?

Speaker 3

Coaches are bad Ed.

Speaker 4

Come on, let's come back to that. Because a lot of them are.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 4

And so maybe God wants to teach our kids something about what it means to be under bad leadership. You think they'll ever experience that in their adult life?

Speaker 3

Never.

Speaker 4

Okay. So what if we as parents actually started to invest way more time in the things that we're actually responsible for before God, and that is being their first discipler.

That's not as comfortable to me; I'm way better at downloading two hours of critical input about how to be better on the court than I am thinking through how to have a conversation about.

I don't like the way you went through the handshake line today, and I don't like the fact that you seem to only be interested in yourself and you don't see any of your teammates or care anything about any of them.

You're full of anxiety, and I have a responsibility actually to teach you how to lean into Jesus in the midst of that. And that's way scarier to me than to just say stop feeling that way.

It's easier just to play that role and to focus on performance than it is to think about being a discipler.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And even coming back to your situation, Ann, I think most parents aren't going to come out and say that to their kids. But how many kids would feel that coming from their parents is my mom and dad are most satisfied with me when I perform well or I get the most affection or attention when I perform well?

And if kids' primary view of God comes from mom and dad early on in their life, man, we are almost imprinting this performance-driven mindset at such a young age.

What sports has an opportunity to do is we can actually flip that script. We can say things like, "Hey, before you even go out there today, I want you to know that I love you and I'm just so excited to..."

Speaker 4

Watch you play no matter what happens.

Speaker 1

No matter what happens. And then making sure our posture and our words throughout the game reflect that truth.

What if our kids could end their youth sport experience saying whether I was amazing or I was horrible, mom and dad loved me and that love was not dependent on what I did on the field or the court.

Speaker 3

I mean, how does a parent get to that maturity? Because that's maturity. I mean, it's interesting. I didn't realize that at the time I had a single mom. Dad was gone. She did that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, she did.

Speaker 3

She really did. I mean, she just saw it as great watching me play every game; it was awesome. I remember we played Fremont Ross in the Buckeye Conference, 10,000 people my junior year, and the quarterback was going to Michigan State but got hurt. So I'm now the starter, and it's the end of the season. I remember it's the biggest game of my life at that point. I go 2 for 12 with two interceptions, and we lose.

I walk up, and she's like, "You are amazing." I'm like, "Mom, I was terrible." She didn't even care. I really feel like I grew up. Every sport I play, I enjoy. I play with Anna, and she's like... I'm like, "Oh, my goodness." You carry that into your adulthood, what your parents put on you.

She still feels it. I mean, we had our oldest son. He's an IT guy today, an engineer. He loves sports; he played them all, but he was not gifted.

Speaker 2

You guys, this is such a picture of.

Speaker 3

This is our marriage.

Speaker 2

You can tell a lot about yourself by how you respond to watching your kids play.

Speaker 3

So we're playing a little basketball game, and I'm coaching. How old is CJ?

Speaker 2

He was probably 5 or 7. He was 7.

Speaker 3

7 or 8 years old. And we're terrible. You know, it's just, you know, And.

Speaker 2

I am like, cj, I'm yelling from the court.

Speaker 4

Yeah, with that tone. I can hear it. I'm stressed right now just hearing that.

Speaker 2

Get to the ball.

Speaker 3

She's in the basket. I'm coaching. I'm, like, turning around to my own wife, who's the bad parent. Like, shut up. And CJ's, you know. And so at one point, he literally stops at mid court. The game's going back and forth around him.

Speaker 2

And this is where I'm like, cj, cj.

Speaker 3

And he's staring at the scoreboard, and I know what's happening because I know my kid enough. So I go, hey, timeout. They all come over, and he's laughing. She's up there, she's up there. He's, like, looking at me and looking at her.

I go, hey, CJ, what were you doing there at half court? And my other coach was coaching the kids. I knew what he was going to say. He goes, dad, the scoreboard. How does the guy push those things? And it changes the lights on the scoreboard.

I go, CJ, I have no idea, but I guarantee you will know someday. And that's his brain. And he came alive that way.

Speaker 2

That's when I ended all of that. And it made me think, why am I putting this pressure on him? I'm wanting him to become something that he's not.

Speaker 3

Find what their genius is and flame it. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1

One of the issues is we've almost trusted youth sports for too little. Like, we're just trusting it for the high school opportunity or maybe the college scholarship.

But what we're talking about right now is this is affecting us today, in our 40s, 50s, and totally, how our parents stewarded their youth sport experience with us has ripple effects today.

And so, man, what if we trusted the youth sport experience for lifelong discipleship instead of just maybe overstressing about the score of a game when they're 12 years old?

Speaker 2

Do we have to heal ourselves from the past before we can do that?

Speaker 4

Huge part of what we've been talking about is, yeah, I think I do.

Speaker 2

Okay. I love these guys. I love this conversation. And this is a conversation. I think every parent is longing for wisdom, don't you think?

Speaker 3

Oh, I know it. I mean, I wish we would have had it.

Speaker 2

Me too.

Speaker 3

And now the wisdom is out there. It's called *Away Game*. It's the book. And you can go to familylifetoday.com and click on the link in the show notes.

And I'm telling you, we've only begun this conversation. We're going to talk to them a couple more days. But man, oh, man, get the book. Do the work. Because this is literally going to change your child's life if you do it right.

So come back tomorrow. We're going to be back with Ed and Brian.

Speaker 2

I don't know about you, but I need parenting help. Not just sometimes, but most of the time. So maybe you feel like that, too.

And we have resources to help you as a parent. You can go to familylife.com/parentinghelp, and you're gonna find resources that will really help you. Not just once in a while, but as much as you want.

That's the benefit again: you can go to familylife.com/parentinghelp.

Speaker 3

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