FamilyLife Today®

Gil Stuart: Reverse betrayal is the aspect that I have a loyalty to my own children who I don't get to see as much because of the parenting plan, and in that time, I'm actually connecting with my stepchildren. I'm actually starting to like them and they're starting to bond with me. In so doing, I actually feel like I'm betraying my own children.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

We just spent a couple of days with a couple of unsung heroes. It’s our son, Austin, and his wife, Kendall. Of course, we’re a little biased, we think they’re heroes, but they’re unsung heroes because they adopted two kids that we were with over the weekend.

Ann Wilson: They started out fostering these kids, and I don’t think we always give credit to the foster parents, adoptive parents, stepparents—all of these people are giving life to children.

Dave Wilson: They’re heroes because they step in and fill a role that they don’t have to. I’m not kidding, as I looked over at Holden and Ryder, they’re too young to know, but I thought their life is radically different because of these two heroes, their mom and dad, who have taken their life.

Today we get to talk a little bit about blended families and people that step in to take care of people that they’re a hero to.

Ann Wilson: Today we’re going to listen to a portion of the FamilyLife Blended podcast. Ron Deal was talking with Gil Stuart about step-fathering and ministering to stepdads, which is always a great topic.

Dave Wilson: We’ve got Ron Deal with us today, he’s the director of our FamilyLife Blended ministry, as many of you know here at FamilyLife. We’re going to listen to a conversation he had with Gil Stuart, who’s a stepfamily educator, coach, and counselor. Gil and his wife, Brenda, have authored a book and a curriculum called *Restored and Remarried*, and they also have a video curriculum for stepfathers called *Unsung Heroes*.

Ann Wilson: That’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Even though this discussion is specifically about stepdads, it has a really broad application for all stepparents and also parents as well.

Ron Deal: Gil, let’s shift and talk a little bit about some of the content you’ve got in this series. Let's just give guys a bit of a preview. You’ve got seven different main topic sessions. The first one is, “You’re not my dad.” Many dads listening are going to go, “Yeah, I’ve heard that,” or maybe they haven’t heard those words, but they’ve felt that from their stepchildren. What’s going on and what do they do about it?

Gil Stuart: In that particular episode, “You’re not my dad,” with all of the segments, just to give you a heads up on this, I don’t do this in a studio with a green screen. I went out on site and had conversations with the camera about the issue. This particular topic, “You’re not my dad,” I did in a garage with a buddy of mine who owns two Camaros.

I’m not a car guy, but we got down to an illustration. Here are these two Camaros that are classic cars, one’s orange, one’s green, they are the same, etc. So I know I’m a dad, but I’m not your dad. The perspective here was they may look the same, but they’re not. Depending upon whether the child’s dad is still around or if they’ve checked out, what kind of dad are you going to be?

There’s an opportunity for redeeming the perspective of what is truly a dad. Maybe the biological dad’s doing a great job. Super. If they’re not, here’s your opportunity. I’m just trying to make it really clear with the guys. It might look the same, but it’s not.

You might know how to handle a kid, but if it’s your biological child, yeah, you’ve got a little more leeway. But with a stepkid, you’ve got to create relationship before you’re going to get that respect that you think you deserve.

Ron Deal: I like what you put in there. When that moment comes, when that child is looking at you like, “Hey, you’re not my dad, you’ve got nothing on me,” you suggest a line or maybe we would call it a posture. You might not even say this to the child, but you carry the posture of, “I agree, I’m not your dad. That’s factually true, but I am your mother’s husband.” What does that lend to a stepdad in that moment that he didn’t have if he can’t lean on his wife and his marriage?

Gil Stuart: It’s a posture of humility that this is the role that I am in. Hopefully, this is where the wives listen in and go, “Whoa, I’ve got to have my husband’s back, because if I don't, he's a hero out in the middle of the battlefield being a dad and he's getting shot up.” No wonder he's a little worked up.

This is where it’s an appeal to the guys: stand your ground, but do it gently, firmly, and be relentless. That’s a heroic stance. “I am your mother’s husband” gives me a little bit of a position of authority, but if it’s not backed up by mom, I’m a little handcuffed.

Ron Deal: You’re right. It pulls back to that partnership between husband and wife and how they work together and support each other. The second session is what you call “reverse betrayal,” not getting time with your own kids. Do you want to explain that a little bit?

Gil Stuart: Reverse betrayal is the aspect that I have a loyalty to my own children who I don’t get to see as much because of the parenting plan. In that time, I’m actually connecting with my stepchildren and I’m actually starting to like them and they’re starting to bond with me. In so doing, I actually feel like I’m betraying my own children.

That is like a major knot of how I can do this and do that at the same time and realizing that I am now in somewhat of a situation to where if I start showing love and affection and connection with my stepkids, I’m actually, I hate to say it this way, but I’m actually scoring points with my wife. That actually is very endearing to her.

Then I kind of insert, I don’t do a lot of time on it, but I do spend a little bit of time on where you, as a father, are stuck in the middle of what’s basically referred to as parent alienation. I spend a little bit of time on things you shouldn’t say to a child that’s in an alienated position because here I am in this betrayal position, but now on top of that, I’m dealing with an alienation problem where I’m being made out to be the bad guy and I’m not.

There are books and videos and I know you’ve done some really good work around parent alienation, but it’s just basically, “Hey, here’s some things you shouldn’t do if you’re in that place while you’re even dealing with this internal feeling like you’re betraying your children on top of.” So it’s a really tough place.

Ron Deal: I’ve seen that a bunch, and I’ve just heard from so many men who, referring to people who are biological dads and stepdads, you just start weighing out the time that you get with your own children versus stepchildren. I’ve seen guys go one of two ways.

I’ve seen guys go, “You know what? It’s easier for me to not deal with that pain, to just essentially walk away from my kids in my first marriage and throw myself totally into my stepchildren, and I exchange one family for the second.” Then your biological children go neglected as a result of that. But it’s a coping mechanism for the guy so he doesn’t have to deal with this feeling guilty thing.

Then I’ve seen guys go the other way, where they feel so guilty spending more time with their stepchildren than they get with their biological children that they start withholding themselves from their stepchildren, even when the opportunity is there.

Gil Stuart: I’ve done that.

Ron Deal: Well, tell us. You’ve done that? What did it feel like? I’m sure that was the only right thing to do.

Gil Stuart: Well, that’s why I called it reverse betrayal because I felt like I’m betraying my children but I want to do this and then by doing so, I’m holding myself back. Here’s my wife kind of going, “Their father has left, he’s not involved with their life like you could be. What’s wrong with you? Where did you go?”

Here’s all these things that I knew you as the reason why I said yes, I’ll remarry this man. Where’s the guy that I married who would step up? That creates internal friction all the more. When I was in that place, it was like one foot in and one foot out and it was torturous.

But then when I submitted to it, then that’s where things really began to work. The beauty of it was I continued to stay on the battlefield for my kids' heart while connecting with my stepkids, and that was the best thing for the marriage.

Ron Deal: You say in *Unsung Heroes* the only way through this internal conflict is through vulnerability. Explain.

Gil Stuart: Vulnerability is not a weakness, it’s a strength. We need to reframe that perspective because vulnerability basically comes from the Greek foundation, or I think it's Latin, which talks about courage. The concept is that courage grows strength from a wound. Let me repeat that. Courage grows strength from a wound.

You’re wounded, your children are wounded, and somebody has to step up with courage and be vulnerable and call it what it is. Because it’s kind of that concept if you can’t name it, you can’t change it. You may be stating the obvious, but somebody’s got to step up and do it, and until you do, nobody’s going to lead.

Ron Deal: For example, this might look like being vulnerable with your wife about this internal conflict and just how you are having this internal debate. “I’m not really sure what to do here. I feel this if I do that. I feel this way if I go that way. I just need you to know this is what’s going on with me.” Is that what it sounds like?

Gil Stuart: That’s what it sounds like, and that takes courage. It takes a lot of courage because I don’t want to express weakness in that because we’re the adults, we’re supposed to know what to do. Really? You ever been a stepdad before? Probably not. Was there a handbook on it? No, there’s not. There’s a few good things. I think you did a really good job on that a few years ago with *The Smart Stepdad* stuff.

Now your video series is another contribution, but it’s kind of like, “What do I do?” Well, be vulnerable, be open. Because when you do, your wife now becomes your ally rather than a perceived enemy.

Ron Deal: You’re right. You invite her into the struggle with you instead of just somebody who’s on the outside judging you because of what they see. They don’t quite understand what’s going on in the inside. They can’t also help you explore what could we do so you get more time with your kids, or there might be some practical things that you could talk through at that point. But without the vulnerability...

Gil Stuart: You don’t get that. You don’t get there. You remain as an "I," not a "we." If you try to take this on by yourself, you’ll get shot up. You really will.

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Ann Wilson: You’re listening to FamilyLife Today, and we’re listening to a portion of the FamilyLife Blended podcast with Ron Deal and his guest Gil Stuart.

Dave Wilson: We love supporting families with a variety of structures, and today is an exciting day because we’re focused on blended families.

Ron Deal: Let’s jump into another one. You talk in this series about “your rules,” and you caution people about doing too much too soon.

Gil Stuart: In that one, we set it up at a playground and I’m talking about pushing a swing and doing under-doggies and all that kind of stuff, but really the simplicity of it is if you don’t have a respectful relationship with that kid, you could actually be pushing them and demanding too much of their obedience or respect too soon.

If you don’t have that foundation built, you could actually be demanding something that you probably are due, but if you haven’t earned that as the stepparent or the stepdad, you could actually do damage rather than instilling trust and honesty and transparency.

And that starts with just being a friend to the kid or "that crazy uncle," I say to a lot of my stepparent clients. When you’re in that role, just be the crazy uncle. Allow them some extra space, and then when you do get into a disciplinary issue, that’s when the two of you and your spouse, their biological mother, pull together and you have each other’s backs. But if you push too soon, too much, the kid’s going to come, so to speak, flying out of that swing and you’re going to do some damage that you may not be able to repair for a long time.

Ron Deal: As I watched this session, I reflected on a conversation I had with a stepdad who came to me at one point and said, “I am so frustrated. I’m trying to bond with this young man, I know what he likes.” One of the things you and I have recommended in the past to people is to start with building that friendship or find common interests and connect into what the child is interested in.

He said, “I’m trying, I’m doing that. This kid loves football, he loves sports, I’m inviting him to go throw the football with me in the backyard and he won’t do it. I know he does that with his father. I know that’s something he enjoys. Here I am making offers, he won't go.”

Some time went by, he comes back and he goes, “I figured it out. I’m asking him to give me something that’s very special with his dad. He just can’t do it. He just can’t give that part of himself also to me. He feels guilty about that.” Dude, you nailed it. You had the best of intentions, you’re on track in terms of strategy, but in that particular space, it’s poisonous for that child to give that to you. So you’re going to have to find something else you guys have in common and maybe eventually one day he’ll come around and start sharing that part of himself with you, but that’s got to be his call, it can’t be yours.

Gil Stuart: And that could be years down the road because that allegiance between the child and the biological parent is way strong. Even if that biological dad is really messing it up and isn’t participating with that kid, that might be your opportunity. But even if they’re doing a horrible job and the biological parent backs out, that kid still wants to love that parent. Respect that and honor that because you do want the child to have a good relationship with their parents.

Ron Deal: To use your analogy, if you press him on that, like "he should be giving me that part of himself," it is equivalent to pushing him out of the swing. It’s too much too soon and it’s going to backfire.

This really brings us to the next point that you talk about, and it’s "allow the kid to love and don’t make them pick sides." Is this also for biological dads and for stepdads?

Gil Stuart: Of course. The answer is yes. If I am creating a place where I am pushing that kid to pick one side or the other, what happens underneath is that I’m actually setting that kid up to be resentful, and that is poisonous all the way around.

Ron Deal: What are some typical ways guys inadvertently push kids to choose?

Gil Stuart: You may have heard it as well as I, where they push kids to say, “You’re supposed to call me dad” or “You’re supposed to call her mom,” and it’s not that. Let the kid choose. One of the things we did within our own family was, “Hey, when we’re out in public, how do you want to be introduced and how do you want to introduce me?”

Obvious statement, but it doesn’t seem so obvious when you’re out in public. That’s a difference of being in the stepfamily. But if I don’t allow that child to recognize me or their biological parent for who they are and that it’s okay to love me as much as their other parent, then I’m actually causing them to be in a squeeze to have favoritism one toward the other. In that case, I’m actually creating a power struggle. Who loses? Everybody loses.

There was a session that you had talked years ago, Ron, where it was in a stepmother situation to where the child was given permission by the stepmom. She did just a brilliant idea of saying, “Sally, if you need to go over to your mom’s house and hate me, then that’s okay, but when you’re here and you actually have a good relationship, I’ll understand.”

That mom and a dad, in this case, has done that child a marvelous favor by taking the pressure off and allowing them to love rather than be stuck between a rock and a hard place. The kid may not have the maturity to know how to navigate that. So don’t put them there.

Ron Deal: That is an unsung hero, that woman you just talked about. I think dads and stepdads are making those decisions day in and day out that, in effect, is taking the shorter end of the stick. Yes, that’s what heroes do. It’s so unfair if you step back from it and you say in the scales of life, that just doesn't seem right. But this child needs us to give them that, and so it’s beautiful.

Dave Wilson: We’ve been listening to a portion of the FamilyLife Blended podcast with Gil Stuart and Ron Deal, who’s the host of that podcast, and Ron now joins us in the studio.

Ron, let me ask you as you think about *Unsung Heroes*, here’s what I thought: 30-plus years in the NFL, the guys I’m working with and their wives, everybody thinks they’re our heroes. They’re at the top of their profession, but they’re not really heroes. What you and Gil were talking about are really the heroes of our world.

Ron Deal: You’re exactly right. It’s the people who bless other people’s lives by making sacrifices of their own that really are the unsung heroes. This conversation’s an important one because there are foster parents, there are adoptive parents, and there are stepparents who are making sacrifices every single day.

Ann Wilson: Ron, one of the things I really appreciate about you is the practicality that you bring into every household. But let me ask you as you had this conversation with Gil, was there anything that really stuck out to you?

Ron Deal: When he talked about what he calls a “reverse betrayal.” In particular, I was thinking about a stepfather who is also a biological dad and, as life would have it, just because of the way circumstances are, he is spending a whole lot more time stepparenting his stepchildren than he is able to do parenting his own children.

Time with stepkids versus time with biological kids. Your heart’s in both places, and yet at the same time, you really want your children to benefit from you in their life and maybe there’s circumstances that are beyond your control, you’re just not getting much time with them.

By the way, that’s an easy, rewarding relationship, our relationship with our kids. We feel good about that, they feel good about that. But the hard work is happening with the stepchildren, and that’s less rewarding, but that’s where he ends up having to be a good bit of his time. That’s a difficulty. Then you feel guilty about that, you feel like you’re cheating your own children and there’s not much you can do about the circumstances. So that is really difficult, and that just really captured my heart.

Ann Wilson: Isn’t it always great to have Ron Deal with us?

Dave Wilson: Always great, and Ron is the best in the world at navigating blended families, because blended families come with unique challenges. But here’s the deal, you don’t have to navigate them alone.

Ann Wilson: If you missed the recent Blended and Blessed event, listen to this: we have a new all-access pass that gives you the opportunity to experience it on your own schedule.

You’ll hear practical, encouraging teachings from trusted voices like Ron Deal, Davey and Kristi Blackburn, Gayla Grace, Kathi Lipp, Cheryl Shumake, and Brian Goins, who are all really focused on helping your blended family thrive.

Dave Wilson: So you can watch it together as a couple, or here’s a great idea: use it with your small group. Plus, each session includes helpful discussion questions to guide meaningful conversations and real-life application, which is always a really good, helpful thing.

Ann Wilson: Did you hear all this? Don’t miss this chance to strengthen your relationship and your family. Just make sure you get your Blended and Blessed all-access pass today. Just click the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.

I don’t know if you know this, but we at FamilyLife would love to pray for you. I think one of the greatest gifts that we can give people is to pray for them. I know sometimes it feels like it’s not that much or like, “Oh, I’ll pray for you,” but let me tell you, that is everything.

We have a team here at FamilyLife that would love to pray for you. You can go to familylife.com/prayforme. Again, that’s familylife.com/prayforme, and I promise you somebody’s going to be praying for you.

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Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.