FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

From a theological standpoint, wouldn't we all agree that God knows best for us, and yet he's chosen to give us the power to make decisions? He so respects our ability to choose that he does not force his way upon us.

Well, if that's true of Jesus to me, how much more should that be true of me to other people? Because I don't know if they're making wise decisions or not.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us@familylifetoday.com this is Family Life Today.

Speaker 2

We have Kevin Thompson with us for our final day, and he's talking about "stay in your lane." This is good. It's going to be really good. Stay with us.

This is going to be a unique day. We're going to have some Q and A with Kevin, and maybe we're going to ask a question that you've been wanting to ask him.

Speaker 3

We're not even going to ask it. Our producer, our sound engineer, they're going to ask the questions.

So they're going to be questions that you have on your heart.

So we're going to go there with Kevin, and he answers them very, very well.

So here we go.

Speaker 2

Do you think people that have their eyes on Jesus, that are focused on him, but they're staying in their lane and, and they're not controlling, are they more content?

Speaker 1

No. There's no question. Well, I know I am.

Speaker 2

Are you?

Speaker 1

But let's face it, here's the funny thing. How often do I fail this? Right? One of Jenny's favorite comments.

Speaker 3

You wrote the book, you can't fail it.

Speaker 1

One of Jenny's favorite comments is to look at me and go, "Didn't you write 'stay in your lane' as I'm helicopter parenting my 17-year-old?" Right.

But what happens is there's consequences that come from that. And what the book does for me is remind myself of, oh, yeah, you know better than this. Of course this is going to be the outcome of what is going on.

So absolutely, I do think—not to overly sell this—you want the fruit of the spirit, "Stay in your lane."

Speaker 3

The challenge is we think we know what will give them love, joy, and peace. We're seeing it, but they're not having it. We know why.

And so we step into their lane, saying, "I know you want love, joy, peace, patient kindness. I've got it. Make this decision." However, it's out of our lane, and it doesn't work for them anyway, right?

Speaker 2

If I gave this book to my children, they would have it with them at all times when they came to my house, and they would just put it in front of me and say, mom, mom, look at this. Stay in your lane.

Speaker 1

So I'm doing a women's Bible study, right? And so there's 600 women in the room. We always do Q and A at the end because I love a good Q and A, because I'm quick to say, I don't know if I don't know.

A lady asked the question, "Hey, my daughter really needs to read *Stay in Your Lane*. My adult daughter really needs to read *Stay in Your Lane*. How do I get her to read it?" And of course, everybody in the room begins to laugh because they're all thinking the same thing. Of course, right?

I said, "Oh, that's the easiest thing ever. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go home and buy two copies. I want you to keep one, and I want you, next time you see her, to give her one and to say, 'I read this book and it's so important to me, I want you to hold me accountable to treating you this way.'"

I said, "I guarantee you she'll read it. There's no question she'll read it, that's genius. But what are you doing? You're controlling what you can control. Because if it's, 'Hey, you need to read this, that way you'll be better,' you're swerving out of your lane. But if you want accountability for yourself that you live this out, what's most likely to happen is that as she reads it, she'll actually be changed by it for herself. But if you just go and say, 'Read that,' she's going to get bitter even if she does read it."

Speaker 2

That is so good.

Speaker 1

Think about this issue of control.

Dave, I don't know if you've ever seen this, but they did a study one time out in Vegas. If you're playing a dice game and you wanted to roll ones, and then in the next roll, you wanted to roll sixes, and they put a sensor on your arm and your hand.

Do you know that most people will attempt to roll one softer and the attempt to roll six is harder?

Speaker 2

Oh, that's fascinating.

Speaker 1

Why? Because we think we can control outcomes we can't control. It's sheer foolishness. We all know it's the luck of the dice. It's the roll of the dice in the exact same way. There's a reason we desire for control.

I think one of the reasons we desire it is because God placed it within us. He wants us to experience control. But sin mars what we want to control. So the very energy that God has placed within us to manage ourselves and to oversee His creation, we have now outsourced or misdirected, redirecting it into attempting to control other people at the expense of ourselves.

I'm not asking people to be less control freaks. I'm actually asking you to be more of a control freak. Be more of a control freak about yourself so that you can let go. Trying to control others, that's really good.

Speaker 3

And we even try to control God.

Speaker 1

Oh, no question.

Speaker 3

Think about that. I mean, part of it is if I'm righteous, if I go to church, if I don't do all the bad things, God's gonna. I'm controlling him. He's gonna give me a better life.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1

When things don't go my way, generally I will either pout before God or plot my response. I think, "God, I thought we had a deal. I was doing my part. Where are you, right?" Sometimes, when life doesn't go my way, I take it out on others. But a lot of times, I passively disobey. I might think, "Oh, okay, well, I'm going to stop reading my Bible as much. I may not serve as much; I may not work as hard. All right, God, I'm here. Whenever you want to do your part, I'll step back in. But until then..."

Instead, what we see so often in the Psalms is this imprecatory prayer. They pray and take their concerns to God. We control how we respond to our emotions and feelings. Do we hide them? Do we live in denial? Or are we able to run to God and say, "God, I can't believe this is happening. Where are you? What's going on?"

In the end, I trust you. I will leave this with you, and I will go back to doing my part until you come through and make all things right. Even prayer is something that I control, and it serves as a way for me to accept what He is doing.

Speaker 4

Hi, friends. We're Luke and Christina Mittendorf. I have the joy of serving as President of Family Life. And together, we're so thankful for you.

Speaker 2

Your generosity is transforming lives and families around the world. Couples are finding hope Again, parents are discovering God's wisdom and families are being renewed in Christ.

Speaker 4

From all of us at Family Life, thank you for helping families pursue the relationships that matter most. We're grateful for you.

Speaker 3

Here's a thought. Because you like Q and A, I'm going to throw it to our control room and see what they have to ask.

Speaker 1

Let's go.

Speaker 5

I'm thinking of some questions that listeners might be thinking of.

Kevin, so, like, what about a wife who thinks something is in her husband's lane, but he doesn't see it that way, or vice versa? The husband says, no, that's clearly your lane, and they just can't agree on that lane differentiation.

What do you think?

Speaker 1

I mean, could you give it like a practical example of what that might look like?

Speaker 5

Maybe a family of origin? Like, hey, when I grew up, my dad always did all the repairs at the house. Or when I grew up, mom was always the soothing presence that would calm the kids at night.

And that's just what they are comfortable with, what they perceive of. Maybe they're not even wired that way now. Their marriage is different, but it's just an expectation and they can't agree on what those lanes are.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that kind of rigidity that is actually there in that scenario, I would sit down. Oftentimes you are going to have to include somebody else. Because if we're not very careful, I think what we can do is we have a way that we think life works and we just assume everybody else sees it that way and that's the way it's supposed to go.

And our spouse rarely can be the one to convince us otherwise. At least when a marriage is unhealthy, when it's healthy. That's the beauty of what happens when it's healthy is Jenny can show me. Hey, this is another way to look at it. Oh, I thought it was only this way. Now we have this. But when there's contention, you can't.

So I think to have somebody else begin to step in and to say, hey, what you're actually experiencing here is not a design by God of how it's supposed to be to where this has to be the role that you play. Actually, the rigidity you're experiencing is a lack of health. What Jim's talking about here is rigidity of roles. The woman has to do this, the man has to do this. I don't know of it any other way. That's actually a symptom of dysfunction instead of having an openness of how could we go about this?

So I would think in that scenario, a communication of, look, this rigidity is. You're trying to force something on me that God has never explicitly said, here's how I have to do it. Matter of fact, I can show you 10 different examples of how other families function in a way that's different. Now, if we can't work this out together, then I'm going to go get some counseling to help me understand how I can love you in a great way. I would love for you to come with me.

Speaker 2

What if. Then the wife says, but it's your role and your lane to lead, especially spiritually, and you're not doing it, which makes me pull into your lane.

Speaker 1

I just think it's unfair, in my opinion, to say you're supposed to lead, go do it. I think it really is. This idea of man. You're praying for that to happen. You're taking responsibility for what you can take responsibility.

Speaker 2

Staying in your lane.

Speaker 1

Staying in your lane. Here's what scares me. This idea of you're not doing it. So I have to. For me to force you to do it is not going to get the outcome that I desire. So to recognize, I think that the desire for the outcome is godly. But how you think that's going to be achieved, chances are it won't come the way that you're going to go about it. So how will it be achieved?

I remember a dad came to me one time. He sat down in my office. I said, what's going on? He said, I'm about to go to my child's school, high school, and remount this coach. The story he laid out was a very legitimate sense of injustice. And I thought he was right. I said, what outcome do you want?

Well, I want my child to have a place. I said, okay, if you do what you want to do, will that lead to the outcome you desire? And he goes, no. I said, okay, so which is more important to you? Is it going to make you feel better in the moment or to do the long play of the desired outcome of where you actually want to go?

Speaker 5

So, you know, on behalf of the listeners, I am a listener right now and a viewer, and this is really irritating me. Like, I'm really good at her lane.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 5

I can see it more clearly than my lane. So what about that? Where either I'm veering into hers or she's veering into mine.

How does a spouse communicate what you're saying? Stay in your lane. That's not offensive or not defensive.

You just ram them, barge in.

Speaker 1

If somebody's merging into your lane, then I do think a firm and yet compassionate kind of concept of, "Look, I know that you love me. I know you want what's best for me, and I know we disagree on this issue, and I'm grateful for your love for me to such an extent that you'll even speak up here. However, I do think that this is my decision in this. And I wonder, could we find a way for me to hear you, but then for you to respect the choice that I'm going to make as we begin to move forward?"

Because ultimately, from a theological standpoint, wouldn't we all agree that God knows best for us, and yet he's chosen to give us the power to make decisions, and he so respects our ability to choose that he does not force his way upon us? Well, if that's true of Jesus to me, how much more should that be true of me to other people? Because I don't know if they're making wise decisions or not.

Now, a common question, Jim, that I ask couples is if they say, "Well, I just know. It's so easy. I know." Okay, let's look at your life. Because you're completely running your life. Is it 100% successful in every way? Is everything going great? No. Well, why not? Because, first of all, I mean, I wouldn't say it this way, but first of all, you're not as good as you think you are because, I mean, you have a track record of your own life, the ways you're screwing up.

And the truth of the matter is the reason you want to run her life is because you're not very good at running your own. And you're distracting yourself by choosing to run her life because you're screwing up your own life and you want to live in denial.

Speaker 5

All right, this is getting a little too personal.

Speaker 3

Okay, we got it.

Speaker 1

We got it. Good answer. So I think that concept of, look, if your marriage is great and it's running successfully and everything is wonderful, then don't read my book, don't listen to me, go swerve into everybody else's lane.

But if on occasion, maybe, just maybe, you have a little anxiety in your life, you feel a little bit of friction, you're stuck. There's not a deep respect within your relationship, and sometimes you struggle to make the next decision, you might want to consider what I have to say.

Speaker 5

Yeah, I got a copy.

Speaker 1

I'm going to take it home.

Speaker 5

I've got a copy of your book. Hey, let me do one follow up, because I think there's. I don't know how rare it is for a marriage where both spouses are in a lane that they love and that they're satisfied with.

So assuming hypothetically, that maybe that's not common, there's one spouse that doesn't like their lane, but it's the lane that God's given them right now. Or we're just in a season where I just don't like this lane.

How do you endure that? Do you just kind of lower your head and stick in it? What pastoral counsel would you give a couple that one spouse loves their lane, the other one just doesn't?

Speaker 1

Maybe the spouse isn't getting any sleep in her lane.

Speaker 2

I was gonna say, is that a stage of life or a lane?

Speaker 1

To mix up the analogy, I can't sleep in my lane.

Speaker 5

A practical parenting season or a career season where I don't like my job, I don't like a component that this is clearly my lane, but I hate it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I do think there is an acceptance of the season of life in which we're in. Now, again, you come back to, what do you control? Because ultimately I get to choose where I work, and if I can find another job, I can leave. It's the choice that I get. So I have to own and control what's going on. But then I do see God's sovereign control over what is taking place. There are seasons of life that I just appreciate; look, God is allowing me to endure this season. I'm going to trust him in the midst of it.

Now, he has also given me choices where I get to choose kind of what I go about. But I think the bigger question, in the end, the outcome that we desire is most likely to come as we stop trying to control others and actually begin to influence them. If you do not like the dynamic that you and your spouse are in, okay, great. How do we change that? You do not change it by control. It can be changed by influence, which means you grasp hold of what actually you control in your life. You begin to experience that transformation in you. You begin to recognize: I own the words that I speak. Let me control that.

Anytime a part of a system changes, the whole system has to reorganize. It doesn't guarantee the outcome is going to be what you want, but it's the most likely way to get the outcome. So you have a parent that has a child mixed up in addiction. So sad, so tragic. What do parents do? They try to control it. In so doing, they actually enable the very behavior. But the moment they recognize, "I'm going to allow my adult child to experience the negative consequences of the foolish choices that they are making," that is the chance that the child actually has to change.

Doesn't mean that they will, but they can. What I can guarantee you is if you keep on trying to control what belongs to them, they will not change. They will only get worse. That's a guarantee.

Speaker 2

Well, it's interesting. I can remember a phase of our lives when I felt like Dave wasn't being. He was too busy in ministry. I'm analyzing his lane for him, feeling like he's too busy and like he's not intimate with our sons, going deep with them.

And I can remember a day thinking, it's not working. Whatever I'm trying to say and make him guilty and whatever I'm doing, it's not working. And I remember feeling this. It's a sense of acceptance and surrender. God, I obviously can't do anything about this.

And I had to work through my head. Well, the kids may have consequences of that, of him working so much. And maybe Dave will have the consequences of a relationship that could be strained, but that's not on me. Like, I can't change him. I've tried for years, but there is a sense of incredible peace, like, oh, well, we'll see how that turns out.

And the consequences weren't so great because he's so good and so great in so many other areas. But that's one I just gave up. And it was freedom. And I will say you have had some hard discussions with our boys about that.

Speaker 1

And notice one thought within that is these relationships, they are what they are. But your choice is almost this. He can either experience those and a strained relationship with me.

Speaker 2

Yes, that's it.

Speaker 1

Or he can experience those with a connected relationship with me, which will actually influence those.

Speaker 2

You're so right. And that did happen.

Speaker 3

Yeah, definitely did.

Speaker 2

And our relationship was great when I stopped putting all those expectations and kept getting in lane when I'm in my lane, like, well, you're in your lane. And I don't have to worry about that.

Speaker 1

And notice now what you're modeling for your kids, for other people, that we're not stuck in these relationship dynamics. So even as y'all reconnected now, if there is some kind of disconnect between one of the boys, then they can see.

But all right, mom and dad reconnected. We can reconnect. And you've modeled for them how to make that happen. You've shown them the possibility of how that it's there and you've created a climate of love in which it's more likely to take place.

Maybe it's a great way to say this is if what you're doing isn't working, try that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1

Maybe it will.

Speaker 2

That's really good. And also, like, yeah, the kids went and said stuff to Dave. The fact that they feel safe enough to say something to him says so much about his character. And they've said a lot to me, too, because I'm not perfect.

Speaker 3

And now I have an answer when they come to me. Stay in your lane.

Speaker 1

Stay in your lane. I got a book for you.

Speaker 2

Which.

Speaker 3

Jim has one more question.

Speaker 5

Yeah. A staff member listening just sent me a question. What about. This is very specific, Kevin. Elderly parents and you're looking over at their lane and you just don't think they're making good decisions. Does that at some point become your lane?

Speaker 1

Yes. So let's go back to the illustration of when the kids are little. There's a solid yellow line and a dashed yellow line. I get to swerve into their lane. They don't get to swerve into mine. They become adults. It's a double yellow line. And now as I begin to age, my son's line begins to be dashed where he actually gets to begin to ask me to swerve into my lane.

So my parents are in their late 70s, and we're just now starting to introduce a little bit of these topics where I'm becoming a little bit more engaged with some doctor's appointments and understanding the finances of what is taking place. It really begins with being a voice of reason and wisdom for my mom, with my sister being there as well. But as we begin to see maybe an incapability— we're not there yet— we start to take responsibility when we see an incapability of her to properly manage and take care of certain things.

I think the important thing within this is that we want to give that person as much agency as they can possibly have for as long as they can have it. But we don't want to endanger them. That's why I have a friend right now who's going through this with his mom, where they're at a sweet moment right now where she can begin to see that she needs some help. I've encouraged him to make everything happen now to put it in place for that to take place. As he gets further down the road, she might, as she loses a sense of her own control, see that in a different light.

So I think it's important, especially as parents are aging, to set out some parameters early on about how we're going to go about this. That way, whenever we get further down the road, we have some understanding of how they expect me to respond and how I'm going to respond. There even come legal ramifications of, look, you want the double yellow line? I can't, in good conscience, allow that to happen in the same way that I couldn't, when my children were little, let them risk their lives.

I'm going to step in, whether you like it or not. It's not up to me; I'm going to do what I think is the most loving thing in this moment for you, to help you and protect you, all while still respecting as much agency as possible. One thing we see, especially as people age, is that just because I have a right to take care of the finances or even choose where you live, it does not give me the right to dictate every aspect of your life.

Speaker 2

Your lives or to speak unkindly or not to be respectful. And I think that's a big deal. The way we approach it, I remember, because we went through this with my parents, of to think like, I've just lost my home on the golf course.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

I'm living in a one bedroom, you know, assisted living. My health isn't good, my wife's health isn't good, and everyone's choosing things for me.

And I remember saying, like, how does that feel? And just letting him verbalize it.

I remember one time he says, do you know who I used to be?

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2

You know, And I'm like, yeah, I can't imagine how hard.

Speaker 1

Notice even your question, the brilliance of your question, Ann. How does that make you feel?

What you're allowing him to do is he's still allowed to own his emotions because if we're not very careful, we can begin to force onto other people. Oh, get over it. Oh, you're fine. Oh, you're taken care of.

And we're now actually stripping from them even the ownership of their own emotions, and we're dictating to them how you're supposed to feel. Yes, you're getting old.

Speaker 2

What do you think's gonna happen?

Speaker 1

Calm down.

Speaker 2

Say that stuff. Calm down, calm down, calm down.

Speaker 1

As if I now have the right to. To control how you feel in this exact moment. Right. Anytime a husband tells a wife to calm down, you Know who is actually not able to handle it emotionally is the husband.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

And you know what I'm really bad at? When my son says that to his wife and I'm standing there, I go into his lane and like, you're not allowed to say that to your wife.

Speaker 1

Hey, well, just don't approach it as a mom there. Just approach it as an author. Just say, hey, I've written the book on marriage. So when Jenny and I are debating, I will jokingly say on occasion, well, you know, I did write the book on marriage. And she will say, no, you wrote a book on marriage that not many people read.

Here's what I love about this book. It's so stupid. The next time you're driving down the road, like, you're gonna recognize, oh my goodness, if that car swerved over right now, they'd kill me. And it just gives us constant feedback and illustration of what we're doing in people's lives.

Speaker 2

It's true. It's such a good visual.

Speaker 1

Even if you went out to the interstate, think about this. Let's go into a five-lane road that's divided by a double yellow line.

To stand in the middle of that road is so dangerous. Yeah, you're still not safe, but you're so much safer if you're on the right side of the yellow line than on the wrong side of the yellow line.

And that just kind of, to me, illustrates how it's such a fine line on some of these things.

Speaker 3

You know, everything we've been talking about the last three days with Kevin in some ways is summed up in a verse in Psalm 131.

Speaker 2

Read it to us.

Speaker 3

Where David writes, "I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me, but I have calmed and quieted my soul like a weaned child with his mother." It's like he's not stepping out of his lane.

It's like, I'm not going to occupy my mind or my life with things outside of my lane. I'm going to.

And, you know, the subtitle to Kevin's book is "Less Worry, Less Anxiety." And that's where it comes from. It's like, keep your eyes on Jesus, stay in your lane. You will have a fruitful life.

Speaker 2

I'm going to be praying for all of our listeners if you'll pray for me in this. I've just gotten in such a habit of going into everyone else's lane that it's hard to break that. It's like, this has to be an act of God and the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3

I'm praying for the same thing.

Speaker 2

You can get Kevin's book Stay in youn Lane by Kevin Thompson. Just go to our show notes and click the link to get his book.

Speaker 3

And that's@familylifetoday.com because she forgot to say that. And I'm stepping into her lane to let you know that's where it is.

Speaker 2

Hey, and if you need more help, you can go to familylife.com marriagehelp We've put together some of our best material on marriage. It's free and you can go to that website and get it.

Speaker 3

Family Life Today is a donor supported ministry of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.