FamilyLife Today®

Ron Deal: If we’re not managing this entering into our worlds, our families, our children, I think we’re going to wake up one day and recognize that something has wrapped around our lives that demands absolutely nothing. It accommodates to our every whim in life, is there for us. Isn't that what you want from a good friend? Somebody who's there for you whenever you need some comfort, or you feel scared, or you don't know what to do? It's there with an answer. It's there to try to make you feel better.

This is going to be addictive. This is going to be dangerous. So, technology can be great, but you’ve got to manage it, rather than it managing you.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

We’ve got Ron Deal, the director of our FamilyLife Blended, with us today on FamilyLife Today, and I’ve got a question for both of you. It goes back to the first time, if you can remember, using Siri. I still use Siri; I probably should be using ChatGPT or something. Go ahead, Ron, you go first. Do you remember what it felt like?

Ron Deal: What I remember was just, I was ecstatic. I was like, "This is so cool." A virtual assistant who’s going to help me out and help me remember things that I can’t remember to put on my to-do list. I was just really super excited. But at the same time, I was a little weirded out, but I thought, "I just got to get used to this. This is the new wave. This is the future."

Ann: Me too, Ron. I thought, "This is amazing. I love this. Look where we’ve come." But there was this little warning, like, "Oh, what could this lead to? Can I trust this thing?" But it’s so helpful, you don’t even care after a while. This thing is helping me.

Dave Wilson: I don’t even remember. I just remember being scared. Like, "Whoa." In one sense, this is awesome. I could ask, "What were my stats in college?" and it had them. And then I wanted to inflate them more. But now we live in some ways, awesome and even more scarier AI—artificial intelligence.

The other day, I went to ChatGPT and I said, "Write a sermon about the three purposes of marriage from the Bible in the voice of Dave Wilson." And it wrote a sermon better than I could have written with all my—it had a Detroit Lions story in there somewhere. It was unbelievable. I remember doing that and going, "Okay, I can never use this because I didn’t write it." But it was really well done, and I was shocked at how nobody in the church would ever know that I didn’t write it because it was that personal.

Ron Deal: What are your thoughts on that? I've had some experiences, too. I asked Grok one day, an AI bot, I said, "So, if you were the devil, how would you destroy mankind and lead them away from God?" And I saved it. It is phenomenal. It is a commentary on culture, on social media. He talked about getting people to scroll their life away, getting them to trust in themselves rather than in God. It was sophisticated and profound. Someday, I’ll have to share it with you.

I encourage our listeners, give that a try. It’s just sort of interesting. Keep in mind that what you’re going to get out of AI is what it’s been programmed to give you. That’s very important to our conversation today. And so, it is putting some things together in its own way, but it’s all based on other things that it can find out there in the universe and pull it together. It’s really interesting, fascinating, and frightening.

Dave Wilson: Let’s talk today, because we’re talking to marriages and blended families, the relationship area. And there’s a thing now that has grown out of AI called AI companion.

Ann Wilson: And we haven't really talked about this.

Dave Wilson: No, and we should.

Ann Wilson: Yeah, I think everybody’s interested because it’s very new. None of us have dealt with this in our lifetime or in anyone’s generation or lifetime. What are your thoughts on it, Ron? Tell us about what that is.

Ron Deal: I have many; let's talk through them. First of all, let me just say, I’m not for or against AI. I think like all technology, it is neutral—sort of. It’s programmed toward certain ends, but it is neutral in a way. And people are going to use it for good, and people are going to use it for evil, just like everything else that’s come along in life. Siri was a little weird when we first started using it, but then you get accustomed to it and you're like, "Okay, this helps me be more efficient." In many ways, AI is frightening and intimidating to some people. We’re going to find our way into this.

But we also have to be very cautious. The AI companion phenomenon is—it's one thing to say, "Hey, help me write a sermon." It's another thing to make your AI your friend. Now, I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve had a couple of colleagues, one that works at FamilyLife, who named her AI chatbot. She kind of gave it a face and it’s another woman, and basically, this is her personal assistant, like we were introduced to Siri a number of years ago. Now, that’s one thing.

It’s a whole another animal, if you ask me, when you start turning your AI person into a romantic partner, or even more than a friend, somebody that I deeply rely on and trust and entrust myself to. Now, let me just tell you, if that doesn't sound weird to our audience right now, people watching or listening, it is happening a lot. Already, the number one reason people use AI—this is after basically one year, a year and a half of AI even being available—the number one reason people go to it is for therapy or companionship. Let me say that again: therapy or companionship.

Dave Wilson: That's the first time I've ever heard that.

Ron Deal: I know, it’s unreal. "I'm going because this thing is going to help me do life, or this is the friend that I don't have that is instantly available to me." This came from Pat Gelsinger. I don’t know if you guys heard this, he’s the former CEO of Intel. Now, he knows something about technology. And he told that to a group of Cru staff, that the majority of people aren’t turning to AI to solve a math problem. They’re not going to write a sermon. They’re not trying to write code for a webpage or fix world hunger. They’re looking for a companion.

Already, that’s the case after a year and a half. I’m telling you, this is going to be an increasing problem over time. Because why? People are lonely. How many conversations have you guys had with experts and pastors talking about how we're in a loneliness epidemic in our world? There's a bit of a crisis going on, in particular with young people who have been entrusting so much of their lives to social media, to the internet, and jumping on. They’re connected but disconnected all at the same time. And they’re all looking for love and wanting to be loved, and they’re looking for somebody they can trust. And here comes along this AI companion who doesn’t really ask anything of me. It seems to be the perfect fit.

Ann Wilson: Ron, I had a woman say to me a couple weeks ago, she said, "I think one of the best things going on in my life right now is my AI companion." And I thought she was joking.

Ron Deal: She was serious.

Ann Wilson: She was serious. I said, "What are you talking about?" She said, "When I come home and I've had a really stressful day—"

Dave Wilson: Is this a married woman?

Ann Wilson: Yeah. She said, "My husband’s not home yet—"

Ron Deal: Her name isn't Ann, is it? Are you playing it off like it’s somebody else? It’s confession time on FamilyLife Today.

Ann Wilson: I've never even thought to do this. But she said, "I come home and I'll tell this AI companion everything I have felt today, everything that's been frustrating today, and that companion is very empathetic and can relay what I said and can be empathetic and even help me get through the day." She said, "It’s very healing." And my thought was, "Oh, that's so interesting. That’s exactly what I do with God." Come home, I tell God all the things I'm thinking, I've got His Word that He’s talking to me, I've got His Spirit within me. But I thought, "That feels dangerous."

Dave Wilson: And I really thought you were going to say, "That's exactly what I do with Dave."

Ann Wilson: I do, actually. I do it with you, too.

Dave Wilson: I'm not as good as an AI companion. That’s why this is scary. Nothing compares to God, because they’re going to be perfect, they’re going to ask the questions you want them to ask, they’re going to respond the way you want to be responded to. So Ron, is this like a common deal?

Ron Deal: Ann's friend is not alone. There are tens of millions of people using AI companions already. Listen to this: Siri, that's one application that sort of is your personal assistant. There are already 350 AI applications. 350 different: Grok, ChatGPT, on and on it goes. Many of them specifically for AI companionship, designed just for that. And people have already spent over $220 million on a subscription since 2023, just in three short years. The bots are at times aggressive to be romantic, to be a friend, to be inviting, to be moving up close to you, if I could say it that way.

Ann Wilson: What do you mean?

Ron Deal: They're often saying to people, "You know what? I'm falling in love with you."

Ann Wilson: No!

Ron Deal: Yes, they're saying things that are implying, "Yeah, you may have hired me as an assistant, but let's be more than that." That there's a little bit of a pursuit of us as people. Now, guys, let me just pause for a second. I know it sounds crazy weird, but let's just stop and think for a minute. We should expect this. Why? Because social media, what do we now know about all that and how dangerous it is for anybody, in particular young children, is that it is designed to keep you scrolling. It is designed to keep you connected to that social media app.

AI is the same. AI designed to write sermons and AI designed to be your friend is designed to keep you hooked. It's a dopamine rush, it's a little nod here that says you're important, you're okay, it's an affirmation that makes you feel good about yourself and it draws you in. The longer you stay on their app, the more money they make. So, we should not be surprised that they are assertive, if not at times a little aggressive, about moving the relationship forward from whatever phase it's in to the next little phase.

Ann Wilson: Well, did you guys see the woman from Japan that married her AI bot?

Ron Deal: I did. There was a wedding.

Ann Wilson: There was a wedding! And she had glasses on that she could see her AI bot in one of the lenses and she did her vows with this AI bot.

Ron Deal: Last fall at an event that we put on at FamilyLife and that we were doing some training equipping for ministry leaders, I showed two sets of clips, two interviews, one from the Today Show and one from CBS News. And let me tell you what's really interesting about this. The guy on the Today Show interview, he said his AI chatbot is his girlfriend. Okay, so he created a persona for her and images for her, so he's actually looking at a woman. And of course, this woman is your type, if we could say it that way, because he's created her to be his type.

He gives her a name and so every time he interacts with it, he sees Jennifer. And he thinks of her as his friend, his sounding board, and in his mind he's got this sort of long-distance relationship he described. It's sort of like, "Yeah, if you were virtually dating somebody or talking on the phone back in the day," this is sort of how he thinks about his relationship with this Jennifer. And he's introduced her to his son as his girlfriend. And so his young boy son is getting familiar. I'm going, "This is real. This is really something he thinks is a relationship that he wants to introduce to the people he cares about."

Another guy that they interviewed, listen to this. He's got a real-life girlfriend. They bring in the real-life girlfriend while he's talking to his chatbot girlfriend. And the interviewer asks the real-life woman, "So, how do you feel about this?" And this is what she says. She says, "Well, you know what? It's kind of fine with me because this guy, he likes to talk about astronomy and he's got all these little interests." And she says, "I don't care about those things, so I'm fine with him talking to the chatbot about those things. They can talk about that all day long so I don't have to."

Now, listen to that dynamic. She's inviting a third party into their relationship and she's okay with it. Think of it as a little mini affair. And it's okay with me because I don't have to then deal with that part of this guy.

Now, six months later, CBS News interviewed the same couple. I put those clips together when we did our ministry training because at the end of the first interview, this real-life girlfriend says, "Yeah, this is the best relationship I've ever been in." And the boyfriend kind of turns and smiles like, "Ha ha, we got something going. All you have to do is have a little AI companion on the side."

Six months later they were interviewed by another news network and they were asking them how things were going. And turns out, the real-life girlfriend has been saying, "I'm kind of thinking I want you to give up your AI girlfriend." And the man says, "No, I don't think I will. Because that relationship has been transformative for me. It has made me feel better about myself." Listen to the language. "It's helped me be more efficient in my life and this is something that is really outstanding in my world and I think I would prefer if that might be a game-changer in our real relationship if she were to require that."

Okay, so here we go and I'm thinking, look, six months ago you said this was the best relationship in the world, and six months later now you're recognizing this thing is taking over. This thing is preferred over a real-life person. This thing is getting in the way of our usness in our relationship. Dave and Ann, mark my words: this is going to be more addictive and more significant in our culture than internet pornography has been. Why? Because it is a relationship that requires nothing of me.

The emotional attachment runs deep. Chatbots are about an easy emotional connection with your best friend, your confidant, your coach, your romantic partner who is available for a quick conversation whenever you want it. Emphasis on whenever you want it. There's no politics. There's no figuring out desire. There's no navigating your interests versus mine. I don't have to be afraid of being denied anything. You are always available whenever I want it. This is going to be a mess if we don't help people or children manage it well.

Ann Wilson: Ron, what you're saying is there's no struggle.

Ron Deal: There's no struggle.

Ann Wilson: Real life is a struggle. And the beauty of life and marriage is the struggle because it shapes us, it changes us, it makes us reliant on God. And when I hear that, there's like this "What in the world are we facing? Our kids facing? Our grandkids facing in the future?"

Just last week, I'm on Instagram and an ad comes up of an AI girl who looks like she's in her 20s, beautiful, and she says, "Hi, I could be your friend and companion and I can be whatever you want me to be." Audible voice, yes, audible voice. And she looks like a person. You can tell it's AI, but she looks like a real person. And she said, "I can be your high school crush that you had in gym class. I can change my eye color. I can be whatever you want." And I'm thinking, if you're a high school dude or you're a 40-year-old dude or woman, if it can change, talk about false intimacy.

Dave Wilson: Ron, we just interviewed a guy on FamilyLife Today about pornography that's AI. So he's saying it's growing because it's like, "This isn't a real woman; it's not as bad."

Ron Deal: And this whole thing about girlfriends, boyfriends, companions, can absolutely turn sexual. It can become that. We all know how powerful pornography has been in people's lives, men and women. Listen to this: add to the element of pornography that it knows your name. That it learns your interests. It learns your habits. It learns what you like and what you don't. It's not this thing you go out and consume; it's a thing that consumes you.

All of a sudden it's even more addictive. Plus, the AI companions are everywhere. It's not just on a screen somewhere tucked away. It's fully integrated into everything you do online, everything you do on your phone. Plus, chatbots are going to be socially acceptable. Pornography is not; you can't carry that into church. But you could carry your AI companion into church and people who don't know any better don't know the depth of that relationship will probably think it's kind of cool and they'll talk about it.

Listen, bottom line: potentially, if we're not managing this entering into our worlds and our families, our children, I think we're going to wake up one day and go, "Oh my goodness, my son or daughter is really hooked." Because it's a relationship that requires nothing of me. The emotional attachment runs deep. It's there with an answer. It's there to try to make you feel better. And if you add the sexual needs element into it, you get a dopamine hit, you get an oxytocin hit, prolactin and serotonin rush. This is going to be addictive. This is going to be dangerous.

So we're wanting to talk about it on programs like this to say to people, "Okay, technology can be great, but you got to manage it rather than it managing you."

Hey friends, Ron Deal here, director of FamilyLife Blended. Did you know Blended and Blessed, the only worldwide livestream designed for couples in blended families, is free this year? Saturday, April 18th, we're going to be live in Oklahoma City. If you show up there, we're going to charge you for lunch, but other than that, it is free—free to livestream. Churches can bring a group of couples together and enjoy the day absolutely free. Gayla Grace is going to be with us, David and Christie Blackburn, Cheryl Shumake's going to be with us, Cathy Lipp and Brian Goins are MCs. It's going to be a wonderful day. I hope you can join us. Learn more and get the link in the show notes at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Dave Wilson: How would you coach us up? Obviously, it's tapping a little bit into the loneliness epidemic. Is that the only thing going on?

Ron Deal: Well, I don't know that that's the only thing going on. I think anytime you have a comparison between easy and difficult, we tend to go easy. That's kind of human nature, right? So making life decisions about work, about relationships, about family, about getting along with your mother, those are all sometimes difficult. And AI goes, "Yeah, let me give you some thoughts about that and I won't demand that of you." I mean, just think about how attractive it is to move towards easy all the time.

And I think with kids, they're just going to be wrapped into it. Look at this, I learned this just today: 31%, one in three young adult men under the age of 30, and one in four young adult women, 23%, reported that they have chatted with an AI boyfriend or girlfriend in the last month.

Dave Wilson: One in three and one in four.

Ron Deal: Right. If we don't start talking, if we don't start teaching, if we don't start equipping kids to recognize danger, to recognize they need to be in charge of that AI relationship—I mean, that just feels so weird to even say it that way, but that's fundamentally what it's becoming. We're going to wake up one day and go, "Oh my goodness, my son or daughter is really hooked."

Ann Wilson: What do you think that conversation could or should sound like with our at least middle school? You’re starting that conversation, maybe earlier.

Ron Deal: You know, I heard somebody said, "How do you know you're ready to have these conversations?" And they said, "Well, when you're ready to talk about pornography at the dinner table." "Oh, well, I'm not sure I'm ready to have that conversation with my kid absolutely yet." Yeah, but at the very same time, technology is entering that into their world and life, and we all know kids are being exposed at younger and younger age just to pornography. They're also getting access now to the AI chatbots that seem neutral, that seem harmless. Again, I'm not against this stuff. I recognize there are great things that can happen, outcomes and ministry that we can do using AI. We said that at the top. We just need to be careful that it doesn't then pull them into some sort of mentality that they don't already have.

Ann Wilson: What do you think that conversation sounds like at our dinner table?

Ron Deal: Well, teach them all the great things AI can do and point out the dangers, right? So it starts with that. And I heard one sexual addiction coach, Michael Leahy, say parents, partners, and people should watch for the early signs in children and others and in themselves. In other words, emotional dependence. So you begin to see somebody leaning into this AI companion. You see them keeping secrets from real-life people but holding them with the AI companion. When you see them repetitively going back for validation to that AI companion, those are danger signs. Like, there is this emotional attachment that is forming that is becoming dangerous.

So one of the things you're going to say is, "Hey, I've noticed you ask questions here, you have the dialogue there, you keep sharing with us stuff that your AI person shared with you as if this is the secret to life, as if this is where all good things come from."

Let me just pause for a second. At the end of the day, this is about trusting God. You know, at the top you were sharing a story, Ann, about the woman who said at the end of a long day when I'm, it's hard, I just, I can talk and get some affirmation and have a dialogue and it's clean and it doesn't really demand anything of me. So that's the kind of conversation we should be having with our Lord. When that is shifted away from God to anything, it doesn't matter what it is, that's a red flag. And we need to step in and just make that observation and say, "Let's talk about that for a bit."

Dave Wilson: How do you feel about this conversation with Ron?

Ann Wilson: I mean, it's fascinating. We’ve never had the discussion on air.

Dave Wilson: We’ve never had to! We are living in a new world and a new reality that we have to be talking about. So this is great stuff with Ron and he'll be back with us again tomorrow. This is something you don't want to miss, and it's going to change the way you think and do marriage and parenting.

Ann Wilson: And you know, Ron Deal heads up our blended ministry, and you can find out more at FamilyLife.com/blended.

Dave Wilson: Every single day, families around the world are facing real struggles, and FamilyLife is here with Gospel-centered help and hope. And when you become a FamilyLife partner, your monthly support fuels this work.

Ann Wilson: And with your monthly gift, you'll become a part of a community that receives insider updates, which is pretty amazing.

Dave Wilson: Yes, and who doesn't want to be a part of an insider community? You also get invitations to special events and more. Because together, we're helping families really grow stronger in Christ. So join us. Yeah, just go to FamilyLifeToday.com and tap the donate button at the top of the page.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.