Family Talk

Dr. James Dobson: You're listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute. I am James Dobson, and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today.

Roger Marsh: Well, welcome back to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk. I'm Roger Marsh, and you've joined us for part two of our conversation with Kristin and Montell Jordan, talking about their brand-new children's book, Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed, and ministry and life and just a number of other topics that I'm sure we'll get into during the next half hour. Kristin and Montell, welcome back to Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Montell Jordan: Thank you so much. No better place we'd rather be.

Kristin Jordan: Thank you so much, Roger. We appreciate you.

Roger Marsh: One of the things that you mentioned, Montell, about being a dad, even though your children are older now and you've got grandchildren as well—both of you do—it's interesting to see how when you look at the eyes of a child who's young, maybe one of your grands. Our grandkids go anywhere from two and a half all the way up to 16, so we've kind of got a wide age range.

But when they're in that two, three, four, five-year age range, they are growing up in a world right now where there's a lot of anxiety. Kids are having fears that maybe we didn't have that much when we were kids. One of the things that we like to say to children of that age is, "Well, okay, it's okay. Don't be afraid. I'm here. Don't worry about the monsters or the lights on the wall. It's fine, it's all going to be okay."

But this generation of children is a different breed in terms of the anxieties they're dealing with. I know you've written a new children's book that addresses that. What was the impetus for writing Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed, which is a slightly deceptive title because of who Shilo actually is?

Kristin Jordan: Well, this actually came about with my little Shilo guy. It came about when my son was three, and he was afraid of the monster under his bed. He would come to our bedroom every night and I was like, "Oh God, please show me what we need to do."

I really had this epiphany and I said, "Honey, what if the monster that lives under your bed is more afraid of you than you are of him? And maybe one day he could be your friend? Maybe he's just afraid of you being different?" And his whole mind was like, "Wait, what?" And it just turned his fear upside down because now he's no longer afraid of the thing that he doesn't know.

Montell Jordan: I think that three-year-old was a lot smarter than me because for me, I'm like, "So you are confirming that there is actually a monster?" But I think what you were able to show him is that the things that we fear the most are actually things that may be afraid of us. They are afraid of us conquering a fear of doing this or afraid of us conquering it.

We believe that unattended fear as a child becomes trauma as an adult. It becomes anxiety and depression or oppression. What we've seen on our couches when we do marriage ministry is we have a plague of people who are afraid of everything—afraid to go, afraid to leave, afraid to commit, afraid to make a decision, afraid of uncertainty.

I think those source from us being a kid and not learning how to deal with fear properly. So our goal and our desire out of this book and with Shilo is to invite God into childhood fears and teach them how to invite faith into a fear so that they can learn how to be brave and courageous.

It's not that it's not scary because it is, but with God, we can take one brave step at a time. And if we learn this at a three-to-five-year-old age, now when we're adults or even when we're in middle school dealing with a bully or high school and we're learning how we want to go to college, the things that we're naturally afraid of—and really what it is is it's a fear of the unknown—but when we invite God and teach them how it changes everything in their life and how they process.

Montell Jordan: Shilo teaches us all how to do it afraid. He shows us how to take just one brave step at a time and to find out that the thing that you are probably the most afraid of is more afraid of you.

Roger Marsh: It's interesting when you think about that Peter walking on water moment that we all have from time to time where there's something we have to do that our mind says this can't be happening. This is scary. If I take a step on the water, I'm going to drown because I'm a human being. But when our eyes are on the Lord and we're processing it the right way.

Young kids, this is a reality. I think a lot of us grandparents especially have to face is they're processing a lot different set of emotions than we ever had to. They're in a world that's a little crazier. If we're not careful, like you said, you guys are seeing the fruits of that labor where adults are having marital conflict because of some unresolved childhood fears and traumas that their three-year-old brain said, "This is how I'm going to cope with this," and then they bring that into marriage. That's got to be a big revelation for a couple to realize it's not that I'm fighting with him or fighting with her, it's three-year-old me is having a hard time with five-year-old them.

Kristin Jordan: That's correct. And the interesting part of that is that I don't think we mean to, but just to exactly what you said, Roger, we tell kids, "Don't be afraid, it's okay." It's not okay. It's okay to us as an adult because we've already conquered that fear. But truthfully, as an adult, there are fears we haven't conquered that we're afraid of on a regular basis.

We would be so upset if somebody said to us, "Don't be afraid." It's like, "Do you have any idea what this is?" But the truth is as we teach kids, one of the things that he says repeatedly in the Bible is be bold and courageous because it's scary. The only reason you would say that over and over is because this is a fearful thing. But it's not that we don't do it, we just learn how to do it with faith leading.

Roger Marsh: How do you take a book like Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed and actually apply it? A lot of times when you're reading with kids, you're reading to them and thinking, "Well, it's the phonics," or they're following the words and they're looking at the pictures. There's a lot of different emotions going on, but there's such a strong message in this book. How do you recommend a parent or a grandparent who's reading this with their youngster really dig into it and utilize it for everything that you're hoping it would accomplish?

Montell Jordan: I think first of all we wanted to make sure that we redefined what monsters look like. We live in a world where every horror film that comes out, there's these new characters that become more demonic. Everything in the world is meant to—I remember when I was a kid, there were things that I was afraid of that today it's like I don't even want to watch commercials anymore because the enemy is so pronounced with it.

We needed to redefine monster for children. And so Shilo, this little guy, he is not intimidating, he is not menacing, and to give the picture of that to a child that if there is something that you're fearful of, this is really what he's like a squish ball. It's like something that you could smush between your fingers. So redefining monster, I think.

And let's just be real. We live in a world where there are not only supernatural type of monsters, there are human monsters today that are really scary. As we're filming this, we're watching floods over in Nepal, and we're watching things and we have a 14-year-old and her 14-year-old soul the other day was just so hurt because it wasn't that type of scary monster, but still, a flood can be a monster.

Gary, Indiana without power for two weeks can become a monster. There are regular world event things that can become monstrous, fearful things. Our goal as parents in reading this book to our children and to our grandchildren is literally showing one, we're connected to you, we're here, we're trying to show you how to bring God into that fear space to be able to be more comforted.

Kristin Jordan: And I think one of the key things is that as we're reading this, the goal of it is, "What is it that you're afraid of?" And listen. Because they'll tell you. That's the thing about kids, they don't hold anything to the chest, they'll tell you. So tell me why you think you're afraid of that. Why is that scary to you? And they'll tell you that too.

Then you'll start to see what's in their brain, in their mind, what they've seen, what they've heard. Then you can introduce God in a way that is so kind and so gentle, just like the Holy Spirit is, and say, "What if you invited God in to say, 'Can you show me what this really is? Can you show me how I'm really supposed to look at this?'"

When they have that framework—a brain that is so simple and not diluted with all the yucky things yet—my innocence is actually one of my protective things that it is really so simple. You can invite God in, he'll come, he'll make you brave and allow you to take one brave step. But we're empowering them as opposed to placating them or dismissing them. So I think it's just leaning in and listening.

Roger Marsh: I love that description, Kristin, especially as you're talking about the innocence of children. Because I think that's one of the things in the modern culture—and I'd love to get your take on this because you have five children, five grandchildren, so you get the generational perspective—but it seems like there was a time in our culture where we really did work to protect the innocence of kids and now it seems like we're in such a big hurry to get them mature with all these different challenges.

I know even Dr. Dobson's writing, we look back on some of the books that he wrote in the '80s and the '90s and think, "Boy, this was kind of a precursor to where we are right now," but I don't even think he could have imagined it would be so bizarre. What are some of the things that you noticed especially in publishing this book, saying, "Boy, if I was writing this for our kids when they were little—the impetus being one of your children—but now if I was writing this for my grandkids, how are things a little bit different?" Did you get enough of that to where you can make a cogent response?

Montell Jordan: I think that this just happens to be one story that Shilo shines the light on, this fear of what's underneath the bed. But when you start to look at, like you said, if somebody has a fear of shadows, fear of sleeping in the dark, fear of what's in the closet, fear of swimming, "Will I make friends?", "Will they accept me?", first day of school, going to the dentist.

Kids have things that are legitimately places they could be afraid specifically because we live in a world right now where fear is now not something that's tucked away somewhere that you have to find. It's touted. It's celebrated. "Ooh, did that scare you? Did that commercial scare you? Did that scare you?"

Because the kingdom is violent and it taketh by force, we can't allow the fear stuff in the world to be trying to take more ground than the God stuff than what we're taking. This has to be at the forefront, it has to be in people's space, it has to be able to see that God people are not shying back from the word of God or from the name of Jesus and just kind of shy back and tuck it in and making it something that means nothing while stuff is literally crawling out of your TV screen and your kid's iPad and your phone to make sure that they feel a fear and have anxiety.

Kristin Jordan: So I have to give them the tools. I can't take you completely out of the world. Now I can remove some of those things. I can make sure our kids didn't have phones until they were in the eighth grade. Our youngest daughter, she didn't have a phone until we went away to do prostate cancer. It was only so that she could communicate with us.

We don't allow it in the room and we don't allow her to have those devices in the room or by herself. So we have questions. I have questions: What are you watching? What is in there? What did you see today? And she has to explain what those things are and then I have to give her and equip her. Now mind you, all along, we have to equip them with the word of God. We have to give them the antidote before it's a problem. Otherwise, when the problem arrives, they have no idea what to do with this.

Montell Jordan: Fear requires access. There has to be a point of where something is seen, it has to have an entry point, it has to have a pinky toe, it has to have an entry place to be able to even start to make a child feel a certain way. From that standpoint, as parents, we must equip our kids to be able to have what they need to fend off the fear because the fear is coming. It's not like it won't come, but what have we placed in there inside of them that God can pull out of them when it's required and when it's needed for them to be able to say, "Hey, be strong and be courageous?"

Kristin Jordan: It's building a tool belt on their back that they're like, "I don't even know what these things are for." Don't worry about it, you're going to need it later. And as you're building this tool belt and then they get to the battle and they're like, "Oh, I have this thing! Oh, I have this ninja star!" Yeah.

And really it's the word of God, right? It's the word of God that equips them, it's the knowing who they are as an identity because then when something comes to question their identity, they already know because they're rooted and grounded in the truth and the word of God and so it's irrefutable. So even when they're faced with something that seems "Mmm," they go, "You know what? I know that not to be true because I've been taught all the way along that this is not so." I think it's just leaning in and listening.

Roger Marsh: I love that description, Kristin, especially as you're talking about the innocence of children. I love your tool belt analogy too, Kristin. I hope that shows up in another one of the books in the Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl book. It really starts to take root with people, we'll see more of this type of thing.

But it's interesting how many times do we as parents and grandparents, Second Timothy 1:7, God hasn't given us a spirit of fear. So we understand that and we'll claim that, but we realize that our kids don't necessarily have that connection yet. I can see that as one of the tools you would put in the tool belt for a child that says, "Trust me, just wear the belt. Just wear the belt, you're going to need these tools at some point, trust me on that." Talk about why that intentionality is way more important now than it's ever been for other generations.

Kristin Jordan: It's important because they have to be equipped. The things that they're battling and the things that they're seeing, we're seeing with our grandkids, they're battling things and seeing things way previously to what their parents had dealt with of the things that they see on TV, the things that are acceptable, that are in every common culture thing that you can think of, whether they're ads on the street, whether it's commercials, whether it's the pop-ups on their devices.

If we don't equip them, they will not be equipped and we will have no one to look at but ourselves. So I think that we're being held accountable. I think for us, we are very intentional. It's really interesting, I was having a morning the other day and I was a little frustrated and my daughter stops, she says, "Mommy, the wind and the waves may come." I was just like, "Wow!" But guess what, it's in there. She kicked me all of James 1 from top to bottom and I was like, "That's right, baby. You're right. Wind and the waves they come, but my eyes are on him. You're right, baby." She said, "So it's going to be good. It's going to be a good day." You're right, it is because we choose, we get to. And she goes, "That's right."

Montell Jordan: And I remember there was a point in time where I had to come into my own understanding of who God was. You can only live off mom and daddy's faith for so long. Right now, it is our job as parents and as Mimi and Big Poppa to give them our faith until it becomes their own and they can choose and be able to say, "Hey, when I'm afraid, but Big Poppa ain't afraid of nothing," or Mimi is not afraid of anything. Or Mimi and Big Poppa face cancer or this or that and we weren't afraid and we prayed at that time, so maybe that's what I need to lean on even for myself right now.

This is just equipping. We are just doing a good thing—we're not just doing a good thing, we're doing a God thing—by equipping our kids to be able to do this. I think with Shilo, we also are just creating a character and a series of stories that are so good that whether you know God or not, you would just want to read the story just based on it being good content. Then from there, maybe you're not looking for God, but God might be looking for you through this little guy, Shilo, who introduces people to something bigger than himself, bigger than his mom and dad. It's bigger. And so we hope to build on that.

Kristin Jordan: And the truth is is that that scripture is what our entire book is predicated on is that love, power, and a sound mind will absolutely change the world. And if they could get that one simple thought of that love, power, and a sound mind overcome fear every time, then we're equipping them and that's just one more tool.

Roger Marsh: Yeah, and this is a great tool to have in your home. Kristin and Montell Jordan have written a book called Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed and we have got a link for it up at drjamesdobson.org as well as for their website. There is someone listening to our conversation right now who is feeling completely surrounded by fear. You talked about cancer, we've got a doctor's report. You talked about a child struggling with fears and anxieties, we've got three of them. We've got financial loss, boy the phone just keeps ringing all day long reminding us of how far behind we are.

It's one thing to say I want to operate in this spirit that's not fear but it's power, love, and a sound mind, but I'm just having a hard time with it myself. What word of encouragement would you give to them, Kristin, Montell, either one of you if you want to start in, I'd love to get your thoughts on that.

Montell Jordan: I would say for somebody that's watching or listening to this right now, how we can encourage you is simply to say that the promises of God are always on the other side of process. I'll say that again because it's worth saying again: the promises of God are always on the other side of process.

Every journey that we have been through to get to a journey of being healed, we had to go through a sickness. To get through a journey of infidelity to be able to have marriage ministry. There's always something that we've had to navigate to be able to get to the promise of God. If you are going through something right now, I think that if you recognize that what you are in is the pathway that is a part of the process that is leading to the promise of what God says, then you've got to focus less on the process and focus more on the promise because that's what's going to get you through to the other side.

Even in the midst of cancer, I already knew, well God said all means all. And if he says he'll recover all even though I'm on this table or even though I got this diagnosis, I'm focused on his promises. I think you will learn to find that a lot of times what we are navigating through, we are thinking we're learning how to trust God. I've got to trust God, I've got to trust God, I've got to trust God. But sometimes you will find that you're in a process where God is saying, "I trust you. You're in the midst of this process because I trust you to complete it to come through to my promise on the other side."

Kristin Jordan: And the truth is is that when we say that we trust God, he says, "Great, let's see." And the truth is is that only through the process do we see that on the other side exactly what he said was going to come to pass came to pass. Our words have power, there's life and death in the power of our tongue and so we have the power to speak the promises in the midst of the process until we get to the promise.

Roger Marsh: Amen. Amen. What a great word of encouragement and a great word of hope especially for people who are going through struggling times whether you be a three-year-old who's afraid about a monster who might be sleeping under their bed or for someone who are in more advanced seasons of life where you've got bigger problems but still a God who can handle whatever you're going through because he is the promise on the other side of the process.

Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed is the first book in this series written by Kristin and Montell Jordan and we've got a link for it up at drjamesdobson.org. Kristin, Montell, it has been a joy to spend some time with you today. Thank you so much for your heart for ministry and the example that you set for so many other people and we appreciate you being with us today here on Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk.

Montell Jordan: It's our honor. Thank you Roger.

Roger Marsh: Promises of God are always found on the other side of the process. Boy, that's great wisdom from our guests today here on Family Talk, Montell and Kristin Jordan. We've just heard the conclusion of my conversation with the Jordans discussing their journey of faith, music, and cancer, among other things.

Now if you missed part one of this conversation or if you'd like to share today's program with a friend, visit jdfi.org and while you're there you'll find a link for both parts one and two of this conversation as well as their new children's book. It's called Shilo and the Not-So-Scary Girl Above His Bed and remember, Shilo's the monster this time! It's a very interesting twist on the traditional children's story about scary things in the dark. Again, you'll find information about the book as well as the audio when you go to drjamesdobson.org.

Montell Jordan shared his heart today for dads, urging fathers to take care of their health, to stay present with their families, and to equip their children with courage and the truth of God's Word. If you'd like to learn more about how to be a more godly father, I want to share with you about a resource called Strong Dads. It's an email series built to empower you in your role as a father because the impact you have on your sons and your daughters in the culture is immeasurable, especially right now.

This resource is packed with valuable, biblically grounded encouragement from Dr. James Dobson himself to help you lead your family well. To sign up for this free email series, simply go to drjamesdobson.org or if it's easier, click in jdfi.org—they're one and the same—and search for that title, Strong Dads. Again, go to drjamesdobson.org or jdfi.org.

Strong families are built on strong men and women who equip their children with the truth of God's Word. That's the heart of the mission here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, standing for the family, for religious freedom, and for righteousness in the culture. This is a mission we share with you and we can only carry forward together. Every broadcast, every resource, every family reached depends upon the generosity of listeners who believe in this work. So join the team today. Your support of any amount helps us keep this ministry going strong.

You can give a gift online when you go to jdfi.org. You can also call a member of our constituent care team—that number is 877-732-6825. That's 877-732-6825. Or if you prefer, you can send your tax-deductible donation through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is The Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. Once again our ministry mailing address is The Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, or if it's easier, just use those initials, JDFI for short, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80949.

I'm Roger Marsh and on behalf of all of us here at Family Talk and the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for joining us today. Be sure to tune in again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love.

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