First Love

Guest (Male): Welcome to First Love with Dr. Robyn Kassas and Dr. Nathan Kassas, where faith meets real life. In this weekly broadcast, you'll discover practical and spiritual keys to reclaim God's story in your life, deep in your relationship with Jesus, and encounter him as your first love, whether for the first time or all over again. No topic is off-limits as we make Jesus real, relevant, and relational. Stay with us; your journey back to first love starts now.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Dr. Robyn, happy Tuesday!

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, it's Tuesday and we're just beginning another series.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Yes, we're continuing our talk on the fish gate, discipleship, and the importance of hearing in a new way. If you don't know who we are, my name is Dr. Nathan Kassas. I have the pleasure of sitting with Dr. Robyn Kassas and this is First Love. Dr. Robyn, I'm throwing this one to you because this is your specialty: hearing God's voice. You are the professor of professors, the master of masters. Please, I'm a disciple; teach me.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, I think that it's really important for us to understand a principle here. And I think this will change everything with the spirit of discernment, and I think that's the major key of hearing God's voice.

We think that we have three channels. We talk about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—same one, same channel. And then we talk about the devil—same channel. And then we talk about what we get—same channel. Isn't that interesting? We don't have separate channels. And I wonder why God did that. It's because it all has to be faith. And if you knew which channel you were tuning into without faith, then you wouldn't really be hearing God.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So true. So we think that we have a separate canal auditorially, if I could say that, for hearing God, and a separate canal for hearing ourselves, and a separate canal for hearing the enemy. But they all flow through the same canal.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, we're like a radio. We have an antenna that we put up into the air to hear what the Spirit is saying. And we have to operate in the spirit of discernment; otherwise, we will be fooled.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. And it's funny, Dr. Robyn, because in the previous episode yesterday, we talked about how the fish is actually sensitive to the movement of the water because it has those hairs in its actual makeup that sense the vibration. Which we do too, inside our inner ear. Very true. We have those hairs that respond to vibration and then the eardrum picks up that sound, sends it down into the brain, and we process vibration. And then we decide what we're hearing. So we'll go into that later on because that talks about understanding coming after obedience, not obedience coming before understanding. A lot of people want to understand without obeying.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: But when we get to the point, we'll understand that understanding is made too much of.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: My God. So I gave a message one time in Talk New York recently over Zoom and I compared the makeup of the inner ear, the outer ear, and the middle ear as to a net. Funny enough, we're talking about fish. And I said it's funny how when you have no discernment, the net is allowing anything to get through—the bad fish get through, not just the good fish. When a fisherman goes out and he casts his net wide, any fish can come in that catch.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It's not individual fishing. No. And that's what Peter was about. He was catching all sorts of things.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. And so discernment is not pulling the net back in; it's narrowing the gap between the net so that only certain things can catch.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, it's also about when you pick up the net and find that you have all sorts of creatures and everything in it, that you have to do away with those and only get the real thing.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So in the first part we established here that the fish is actually being moved by the water internally. It's sensing an internal vibration. So the disciple—let's liken that to our lives—the disciple is moved internally, not externally, by the Holy Spirit. But here we are actually saying sometimes the water can be noisy. And if you don't have discernment when the water moves, you lose. Like a fish, the fish has to discern the signal that the water is giving. It can't just discern, "Oh, water is moving, therefore this is good," because some water movement could be a predator. Some water movement could be danger. Some water movement could be relocation or environmental disturbance. So just because water is moving doesn't mean it's necessarily good.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, so you have to discern who's moving the water. And Peter understood the fish. He was a fisherman, so he understood the habits of the fish and what fish were going to be caught and where they were going to be caught. And that's what he had to learn. He had to learn his identity was in Christ and not in him being a fisherman of fish.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Tying that neuro-science linkage is that even though I hear God—let me say it plain and simple—not every thought that I hear is God. Even though I have him living inside of me, not every emotion I feel is him expressing in me.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: But you have to discern. You really do. Otherwise you'll be moved by circumstances and situations. You've got to move from the outer to the inner.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So would you say that means spiritual discipleship maturity means moving from discerning the noise to learning how to actually discern the signal?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes. And I think that Peter's lesson that he learned in life was learning that Jesus' voice outranked Peter's experience. Jesus is the king of all. Can you say that again? That is a key statement right there. I said Peter's life is learning that Jesus' voice outranks Peter's experience.

And that's what we have to learn through that inner voice. You won't learn it through the outer voice because you'll be moved by the circumstances, and the circumstances will begin to teach you. That just landed in me.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I'm looking through scripture and I'm seeing this scripture that stands out to me to tie in with what we're saying: John 10:5. "A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." So what this is saying is that spiritual hearing involves both recognition—the spiritual part of the sheep-gate recognizing who you're following and being led by—but it also incorporates not just recognition, but rejection. You have to reject the stranger's voice and only choose to be led by the one that you're in relationship with. Which requires discernment, Dr. Robyn: the narrowing of the net.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It has to be. And you throw out all that is not healthy.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And what's important about the narrowing of the net is even when the net is narrow, the water is still allowed to get in.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It still flows through it. Yes. The Holy Spirit still breaks through even when you set the boundary. It's not that you're cutting off the Holy Spirit; it's that you're cutting off the source of the old supply. You mentioned something about the old supply in the last episode.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Yeah, the feed. I think the Lord is bringing us to a place where our feed is narrowed. And I would even say this to someone listening: maybe even your social media feed. That's a feed that feeds your life. So maybe God wants to narrow it because it's sourcing old pain. It's time to get a narrower feed for your life and a new source, wouldn't you say?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Definitely agree. So discern even on your feed today what God is allowing through the net and what he's not allowing through. And throw out all that isn't. Use your discernment and then you will know what is healthy and what's not.

Guest (Male): Looking for a real relationship with Jesus? Join Dr. Robyn Kassas and Dr. Nathan Kassas every weekday for First Love, where prophetic insight meets real theology. Learn how God's voice activates your mind, body, soul, and spirit, helping you renew your mind, transform your life, and return to the one who loved you first. Catch First Love Monday through Friday, 5:00 to 5:30 PM. Learn more at torcc.org. The one who loved you first is still loving you best.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: All right, Dr. Robyn, we are back. I've gone through my Facebook feed and I've narrowed the net.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And you've challenged people to narrow the net.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I'm telling you, we don't realize it, but that wording "feed"—your Facebook feed—it is feeding you. It's probably one of the biggest sources of disappointment and comparison. Although it is meant to be something that can be celebrated, when you see someone else moving forward in life and you feel like you're not, you begin to say, "Well, why don't I have that? Why isn't my life like that?"

Dr. Robyn Kassas: That was the sheep, always looking for the grass greener on the other side.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Why don't I have that opportunity, God? Why don't I have that assignment? And you like it because you want to be cute.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Of course it gives you the attention, it gives you the rights.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So let's get off the Facebook feed and let's jump into some neuroscience around hearing. In the previous episode we talked about hearing and listening are different things. And you have a very powerful revelation around this and I want to throw it to you first and then I'll add some science. You're always telling me in every counseling session that we give: listening and hearing are different things. So what is the difference?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, one lands and the other one doesn't.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And why do you think it doesn't land?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Because you're listening on the outside of you. You're listening on the outside of you. And every time he says "ears to hear," it means you're not listening outwardly; you're listening inwardly.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And I like the proverb that Solomon has: "Incline your ear to my knowledge, apply your heart, let it change what you say." That's how you know when you've really heard someone, when it changes what you confess back to them.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, and you've brought out that there's a process in hearing, listening, and hearing. And you said that several times you've got to let it go up and come down and go up and come down; regurgitate it. You don't get it the first time. And so therefore the more you listen to it, you get the ears to hear it.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's it. Yeah, the Hebrew word in that famous passage, "meditate on your word day and night." David says, "I meditate on your word day and night." A lot of times when "meditate" is used in the Old Testament, it's the word "haga." And "haga" is representing a cow's stomach. Chewing the cud. And so a cow actually has five stomachs. So even though we're not cows, we do have a five-step process to hearing. That first hearing is information, and that second hearing is understanding, and it goes on. And I'm not going to steal the thunder of that because if you want to hear more you've got to go to torcc.org and follow some of our sermons and some of our explanations and presentations to explain all of this.

But we're going to add some neuroscience. So you've said the difference is the outer ear versus the inner ear. If I could bring that now into the physiology of it: When we are listening with our outer ear, we are not giving attention to what we hear. We can hear something with our outer ear and yet never take it in because it's all based on what we give attention. And again I'm going to reiterate: what we give attention we attend to.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, and we do that very seriously. We allow attention to be stolen when it's the outer.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So let me give you the science here: If something becomes meaningful to you, your attentional systems become increasingly likely to notice related cues. You've experienced this naturally. For example, you can be surrounded by a conversation, but suddenly someone says your name and attention shifts. All you heard was your name because that's what triggered your attention. Because your brain assigns specific signal significance to the information associated with you. So your brain says, "Oh, this is about me, I should listen." But it's very counterintuitive because your brain says when it's not about you, "I don't need to listen."

So this shows us that what we value affects what we attend to and how we hear. The importance we put on it. Jesus repeatedly says again, Mark 4:24, "Take heed what you hear." He doesn't just say listen; he says take heed. Be careful what you hear.

So the issue is not whether information is actually available; the information is, "Did I give it the attention that it deserved?" Information is always available. We live in the age of information. But God is not asking for more information; he's asking for more attention. And this is what the fish gate is all about. You always talk about Peter's impetuousness and I really believe that the antidote to impetuousness—today they would say Peter had ADHD, they would say that he was always impetuous, always wanting to move forward—but the answer, the antidote to that impetuousness, Dr. Robyn, is training attention. Peter gave attention to what he thought was important, what he thought was considered significant.

And so this is what we do when we come to the fish gate. God is not just training us to live from a different source; he's training us—and I should say retraining us—in what gets our attention.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yeah, and we have been allowing the circumstances to get our attention. And that's always on the outer.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And the brain works with this selective processing. When I give something value, I will give more brain space to it. I'll also give more patience to it. I'll give more grace to it. I'll allow more empathy to it. If I don't give that space in my brain, then I'm more likely to react in anger, frustration, maybe cut someone off when they're expressing themselves, or shut someone down because deep down the belief system is: "This is not important. What I have to say is more important." And that's the beginning of a lot of wounds that we've all been hurt by.

It's selective attention. And your brain has this network called salience. It's the salience network. And I'll talk about this more in the future. When God is retraining your attention, he's also retraining your salience network because your salience network operates like we're taking in thousands of stimuli every second. Like right now I'm sitting on a chair with you, I'm speaking into a microphone, my brain is taking in the lights of the room, the sound of the voice—my voice, your voice—in the headphones. But none of that is actually getting my attention more than me looking you in the eye right now and having this conversation with you. Everything else has become natural, normal. So my brain is beginning to develop its salience network.

So the salience network can be developed in a good way or it can also be developed in a wrong way. I can learn to not give attention to the things that need to be attended to.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And Peter—I've got to come back on Peter. Because he's the one that we're learning from, the fish gate. He was more interested in his experience than the voice of the Lord and he didn't give attention to it.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: This is it. He heard it, but he didn't give attention, which stopped him from attending to it.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, that's what I brought out before. But let's go there to say about Peter when he didn't give attention to what the Lord was saying about putting his net on the other side. His thinking was: "We worked all night. We caught nothing." And here's his fisherman brain coming out again. And then he says, "Nevertheless at your word I'll do this." Like, "I don't really believe it's going to work, but I'm doing it for you, God." That's what we say: "I'm doing it for you, God, not for me, because I don't believe that this is the way."

But then did he ever find out what he found out? He had so many fish, the boats began to sink! And that's where he saw the miracle. And that's when he fell at Jesus's feet and said, "Depart from me, I'm a sinful man." What was he saying? "My experiences didn't work, and I shouldn't have listened to them."

Dr. Nathan Kassas: "I paid attention to the wrong things."

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: My God. Well, that's all we have time for today on First Love. We hope that you've been blessed and we hope that your net has been narrowed. Join us again tomorrow as we continue through the fish gate and we begin to discuss the importance of being caught by God. Until next time, we'll see you then.