First Love

Intro Voiceover: Welcome to First Love with Dr. Robyn Kassas and Dr. Nathan Kassas, where faith meets real life. In this weekly broadcast, you'll discover practical and spiritual keys to reclaim God's story in your life, deepen your relationship with Jesus, and encounter Him as your first love, whether for the first time or all over again.

No topic is off-limits as we make Jesus real, relevant, and relational. Stay with us. Your journey back to first love starts now.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Well, hello everybody and welcome back to First Love. My name is Dr. Nathan Kassas and I have the honor of co-hosting this program with Dr. Robyn Kassas. Dr. Robyn, how are we doing today?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I'm doing wonderful. Wonderful. Loving when the sun comes through. Amen.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: We are also just so thankful for the last three days we've had the privilege of having Dr. Tony on and really talking some deep theological truths that have probably challenged some people, including ourselves, and uncovered some good foundation and maybe some not-so-good foundation.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think that it was great to have Tony on, and not just because he's my husband, but he brings another perspective that really enhances and opens up more understanding for me. And so, it just seems to be the fullness of what we needed for this subject.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I think the last episode especially, about understanding that God came because of love and not because of sin, was really powerful.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I asked him what he got out of it, and he said he came by fear when he came to Christ, and now he realizes love was really what he needed.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. Well, I am on that journey myself. I'm realizing where fear has been leading me to Jesus, and I'm realizing when fear leads you to Jesus, it doesn't show you the real Jesus.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It can't, because there's no fear in Jesus.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's it. Perfect love casts out all fear. So, I'm going back to the Lord and saying, "Was this me being led to you, or was this fear leading me to you?" I notice that in the parables and in the accounts of the Second Testament, like with the woman that washed Jesus's feet with her hair, I don't think fear was involved.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No. She came early all the time to avoid people because she didn't want to out of fear. That's the woman at the well. She came through fear to keep away from people because they would judge her and her reputation. But man, when she met the man, Jesus, she found love and she feared no more. He told her what to do, but she feared no more and she could face her accusers and know that God had forgiven her.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. The ability to face your accusers and know that God had forgiven her. That is true love. So, Dr. Robyn, as we go through these gates—the Old Gate—we've done three really powerful, impacting episodes, mainly on the theology around it and some important truths that we have to establish. When we're revisiting ancient—and we're going to say ancient as not in old or done away with, but ancient as in standing the test of time—that's how we're using the word ancient.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes. These other things that we're going to talk about later on are about what we have to get rid of that's old. There are old things that God wants us to get rid of, but we'll put them in later because that's what Paul was talking about. We're still on the ancient gates.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I think it's powerful, as I was saying, these ancient truths that we're coming back to. Now we're going to dive in a little bit more to the emotion as well as the neuroscience, some physiology, biology, and of course, Scripture, but we want to bring it into an everyday perspective to help the listener. I just wanted to start by saying, as we make this transition—well, we've already made the transition, but now we're going in a little bit deeper—the Fish Gate was where we remembered His voice, but the Old Gate is where we remember His ways.

I think that's an important thing because sometimes we don't like the way God does things. If we can't remember the way, then it actually sets us up to predict rather than to remember. I think an important thing here that I shared with the church a couple of Sundays ago is that our brain is constantly wanting to predict—predict what could happen and what should happen.

Remembrance is actually very key for how God wants us to see things of the past. Now, we have to be careful because, from a counselor's perspective, if you have pain in your past, remembering pain can be traumatic. It can also be very painful. But I always like to say this—and I think I wanted to say it on the previous episode—we were talking about how sin caused us the pain of independence and the pain of being separate from God.

Pain is nothing but a messenger system. In the body, pain is a messenger system. It's a sign and a witness to point to the cause of something. It's also a response. We feel pain in our nerves when we have a painful stimulus. Pain stands for something that has been Personal, something that has been Abrupt, something that has been Immoral, and something that you're now Neutral to. That's P.A.I.N.

What is God taking me back to—and I say that with great gentleness—that was personal, that was abrupt, that was immoral, and that now in my present day has caused me to become neutral? Neutrality is the worst place you can be. When you hate someone, it's hard, but hate shows that you love them because you have such an emotion of hate. But neutrality is the hardest place to be.

Why I'm bringing this up is because when we start to remember and we go back into these old gates, there will be things that God will be touching that are painful and there will be areas that He's touching that we don't want to remember because of the pain. But the great thing is—and we'll hear this when we come back later on—when we have the right remembrance, the correct remembrance, it gives us the correct interpretation of the present-day reality.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Wow. So, we need to remember. This is not about us being chastised, this is not us being controlled, this is us being loved. Because when we remember, we will not do it again. Exactly. And God won't remember it, but we need to.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: This is the key. God doesn't let us forget. He forgets. He throws it into the sea of forgetfulness. What does the Lord get us to do? He doesn't let us forget, but He gets us to redeem through remembering, and redeem from where we are in Him with Him now.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Not where we were, but where we are now.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So very important here. We talked about Peter a lot in the Fish Gate, and we're going to go back to good old Pete as our example today. After all of these great redemptive things that God has done—Jesus has done for Peter—Peter tends to put his foot in his mouth again. We said this in a couple of episodes ago: he looks at John and he goes, "Well, what about him?" Here again, we see the Lord returning to an original instruction: "Follow me."

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I prayed, Peter, that your faith wouldn't fail you.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's it. And "What is it to you? I've told you, follow me."

Dr. Robyn Kassas: So mind your own business, Peter.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: This is it. As we're going into the break, I just want to say, when God is getting us to remember, it's to set us up to go back to the original instruction, not the original wound, but the original instruction.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: The original plan.

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Dr. Nathan Kassas: All right, Dr. Robyn, we are back. In the first part, we were establishing a new dynamic here in this Old Gate exploration. Before the break, I was talking about remembering, and not remembering the wound, but remembering God's first word and His instruction. Why don't you expound on that a little bit?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, I think that we need to remember His word, His will, and His way. There it is. And this is what will keep us in those places where we can look back and see memorial stones. Ah, yes, I remember Your way, Lord. Yes, Lord, I remember Your will. And Lord, I remember Your word. And now I can have a memorial stone that will constantly remind me of this.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And I think it's important here to mention the ten spies. When they interpreted the giants—their present-day circumstance—Joshua and Caleb interpreted the same thing because they remembered correctly. Because they remembered correctly, let me get to a point, they interpreted present-day circumstance correctly.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It's amazing how two sets of people went into the Promised Land. One came out with the wrong interpretation, the ten, and then Joshua and Caleb came out with the right interpretation. And they saw the same thing.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: This is the key. There were twelve men that encountered the same environment, the same circumstance, the same visual cues. Same thing. But what changes their interpretation? One—well, two—remember God's word, will, and way. Yes. And then ten remember their wounds and their experience. Oh, their experience. Oh, my Lord. So, they're actually remembering via what we call a threat learning system.

They've actually interpreted everything that has happened in their life was a threat against them. And that's what sometimes we do when we tie these belief systems around what's happened in our life. It forces us to interpret the present as the same thing. And I think it's powerful here because when the Lord is saying He wants to take us back to remember ancient truth, He's also saying, "I want to take you back so that I can show you what you remember is not necessarily the truth."

Now let me tie that into science. It's called memory reconsolidation. Science tells us, neuroscience tells us, that when we remember past events, we actually never remember the event correctly. We only remember our interpretation or our reaction in that event.

So, when the Lord is saying, "I want to bring you back to the ancient truth of what I've said and what I've done," we have to sometimes go back and remove the memory that we think we've had of God not doing what He said He would do.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: So we have to go back and not remember the experience. That's what it is. It's a learned experience into my nervous system. And be ready. We have to go back and be ready to learn a new experience about God's word, will, and way.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Yes. I think a key here is that we are actually learning that our interpretation of what we have seen has shaped what we believe what we've seen means. So, just because I've seen something and I've interpreted it, I have now allowed that to shape my belief of what the present is.

When we get to memory reconsolidation, this is really powerful with the Holy Spirit. The facts can remain of the past, but the meaning behind the facts, God can change. This is powerful because this is how He heals us. He doesn't take away what we went through, but today He changes what we've been through and gives it different meaning.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I'm reminded of a situation with the disciples when Jesus fed the five thousand, possibly more—fifteen thousand if you count the women and the children. And He fed them and He asked them to gather up all that was left over and to put it in the boat, because He said, "We're going to the other side."

And then in the boat they go, and then in the middle of it, there's a storm. And they are frightened. They are frightened they're not going to make it. And you know what? There was a memorial stone in that boat. There were twelve baskets of food that were left over. And they didn't see that. They just saw the storm. That was all they could remember because that was their experience. Peter, all of them. But do you know what? Jesus got up and He just stopped the storm. He calmed it just like that.

"Take a look at what's in the back of the boat, boys," He said. My interpretation. "I said I would get you to the other side. Can you not look and see one of these baskets was for each one of you? Twelve baskets. But more than that, I said to feed them. That was the first thing I said. It was My word, it was My will, and it was My way." And then He said, "Now I said I'd get you to the other side, but you don't believe this because you believe your experience of the water. A fisherman. The water." And so, they still got to the other side because Jesus keeps His word. Amen.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: This is the powerful thing around this memory reconsolidation. When we allow God to help us remember correctly, it doesn't change the trauma—now let me be clear, it doesn't change the event—but what it does is it changes the meaning that we've assigned to that event in our life.

Perfect example here is Joseph. At the end, when he's there with his brothers, he literally says, "I remember what you did, and you meant it for my bad." But here comes memory reconsolidation—now a new meaning is being attached—"but God meant it for my good."

So the Lord is able to touch Joseph's brain to remember what the trauma is, but because of where he is with the Lord today going into the ancient truth, He allows Joseph's mind to attach new meaning to it. This is how healing really occurs. You see, God won't let us forget, but He will always let us redeem.

How do we redeem? We remember correctly by attaching right meaning. So that time you were rejected, you've got to remember it. You've got to say, "Okay, Lord, I remember that time. But now I'm going to give the meaning that I see—that You weren't rejecting me. You were there accepting me, and it may have been man rejecting me or the circumstance, but I'm never rejected with You." Just as a little physical example.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And then we must remember something that is a key too: it's always God's voice that's louder than the enemy's voice. This is it.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And a key thing here is that God can change what happened yesterday without pretending like yesterday never happened.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, because that's a lie. It did happen.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And what I mean by that is how does He change what happened yesterday? He doesn't change the event. He changes our interpretation of it. Meaning, when you and I look back at yesterday, we don't look back with trauma, we look back with testimony. And that's what memory reconsolidation is. It is turning trauma into testimony.