First Love

Announcer: Welcome to First Love with Dr. Robyn Kassas and Dr. Nathan Kassas, where faith meets real life. In this weekly broadcast, you'll discover practical and spiritual keys to reclaim God's story in your life, deep in your relationship with Jesus, and encounter Him as your first love, whether for the first time or all over again. No topic is off-limits as we make Jesus real, relevant, and relational. Stay with us. Your journey back to first love starts now.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Everybody, and welcome to First Love. My name is Dr. Nathan Kassas, and I'm joined by the amazing Dr. Robyn. Dr. Robyn, how are you?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Oh, I'm feeling great. This is really great.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Yeah, we are joining you for a special edition of Celebrate America 250th Anniversary live from Times Square. What an amazing event and what an amazing opportunity to celebrate what God is doing in America. Isn't this incredible, Dr. Robyn?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yeah, incredible.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So if you're available, come down to Times Square and see what God is doing. Well, Dr. Robyn, on this special episode, we want to talk about America being introduced to the real Jesus. And this was something that the Lord put on your heart a while back, that we know God, we know Christianity, but do we know Jesus?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, and it's important that we do because He is the reason for everything.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's right. And so with knowing Jesus, it's important that we know Jesus, but it's also important that Jesus knows us. Because we need to be known by God as well as know Him. I find that being a pastor and being a counselor, a lot of Christians have fallen into this understanding of knowing information about God, but actually knowing God intimately and knowing Him as a friend and knowing Him as counselor. Those things are missing today. And on this special edition, as you're listening, we hope that you will take the journey to really know Jesus.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yeah, and it's really important that we realize that Jesus came in a human form, and He was God in the flesh. And God spoke Himself out into Jesus. So we get to know and understand, like He gets to know and understand us. He feels our infirmities. He brought healing to us.

He's not just our savior. He's our Lord, but He's our friend closer than a brother. And we need to know Him here in New York so we can associate with Him like He associates with us.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And just to bring a very important scripture here, He says in Matthew 7:23, "Then I will declare to them," and He's referring to those at the end who come and approach Him and say, "Lord, I did this in Your name, I prophesied in Your name, I cast out this demon in Your name, I saved this many people in Your name." But Jesus responds to them, "Then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me."

That's a pretty heavy thing to say something like that. And the irony is that it's not the Father saying this. So to know God is one thing, but to know Jesus is another thing, because it's Jesus saying, "I never knew you." And that word there in the actual Greek is, "I was never intimate with you." And what does that mean? It means, "I didn't touch those places that you kept reserved. Those areas that you kept closed up."

And it's important because when you're fully known, it means you're fully seen. And I feel that America is coming back to the idea that, yes, it's about God, but Jesus wants to see you, and not just see the parts that you think He wants to see. He wants to see all of your parts: your insecurities, your fears, your doubts, that vulnerability. Those things that you would think He's not ready to touch, He wants to touch, Dr. Robyn.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: That's true. And you talked about seeing. The way to see God and the way God sees us is through the eyes of Jesus. Because what He did on the cross, He did for us. And then when we look at that, we see that God sees Jesus instead of the things we don't do. What an encouragement, and that's the power of grace.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's the power of grace. So what we're saying here is that the cross is not simply our sins being forgiven. It's an actual introduction to God introducing Himself to us. So the cross is not the end, it's the beginning. And this is where the Son reveals His humanity to us, and it's where the Spirit reveals His power to us. And everything comes through seeing Jesus as the door.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It's true. And we can see this when we realize that He was fully God and He was fully man. And you know what? He took that deity off and He walked as a man for us to be able to associate with Him.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Yeah. And when we go back to the knowing aspect of it, I think it's really powerful when we look at the psalmist David and he says, "Search me, oh God, and know me." So he's actually inviting the Lord into that space. He's saying, "I want You to know everything about me. I don't just want You to know the good things about me. I want You to know the things that I don't think are worth knowing. And I want to give that to You because that's a relationship." A relationship is where I know You for all of who You are and You know me for all of who I am.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Based on a relationship totally. Not based on formulas or anything like that. Principles, programs? No. Based on relationship. Not based on law. I'm a Jew. It's not based on law. It's based on relationship with the man Jesus.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Well, just a little insight into our Jewish history. It wasn't the law, it wasn't the Torah that brought them out of Egypt. It was the blood. It was the blood that made a way for them to escape an exodus. And so there is no confidence in the law. The law was there to show us that we can't keep it. And that's why we need the grace of Jesus every day in our lives. Amen.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Amen.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Amen. So I want to bring a little neuroscience in here because that's what we like to do. So as human beings, we are biologically wired for attachment. And attachment brings vulnerability and relational safety. So our nervous system actually relaxes when we experience being fully seen and fully accepted.

A lot of us have probably had childhood where we've grown up and we've had a friend or we've had a parent—no blame on them—but sometimes we're not fully seen. And so because we're not fully seen, we don't believe that who we are is accepted. So we create these defense mechanisms as we go through life to protect us. And so sometimes people end up having relationship with our defense mechanisms and not us. They have a relationship with our mask.

So we actually might perform, we might filter who we are or what we really feel, and we might manage our image based on how we think people will respond to us. But the great thing about the gospel and the great thing about the love of Jesus is He says, "You can come to me unfiltered, unedited."

But here's the key: come as you are, but leave as I am. Don't stay as you are. Don't use "come as you are" to stay the same way because transformation is a person and that person is Jesus Christ. And I know, Dr. Robyn, your heart on this is to bring this message to New York City, but also the world, about Jesus is transformation.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes, and we need to know that Jesus wants to touch New York City with such a touch from His love. He wants that. And He doesn't look at all the filth, He doesn't look at all the sin, because God is looking at Him and what He did on the cross to bring us to Him.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And again, I love this. You know, we see in scripture as we go throughout and we take an examination, Jesus is always initiating relationship first. And see, a God that you should be afraid of doesn't initiate the move towards you. A God that you are afraid of waits for you to move towards Him.

But Jesus says, "Behold, I knock at the door." And when He was in the garden—because it was Him—He came looking for Adam and Eve even after they had sinned. What does that show us? He was still ready to have relationship even though they had messed up.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, He came for this purpose. He came for this very purpose, to bring us back to our Father. And you see, that can only come through relationship. It can't come through rules.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's it. And so the great commandment is love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength. Okay, so we can't really love the Lord our God with all of that until we let Him see all of us. Wow, that's a key one, isn't it?

And I'm actually coming into the realization that it's not just about Him seeing me and all of me. It's Him seeing us and us seeing Him and all of Him. And that's an important thing because there are things about Jesus that we've yet to experience. The love of Jesus we know in one way, but He wants us to experience it in every way, in every facet, His grace, His mercy. He has emotions.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: As we've said, those mercies are new every morning. It's my favorite tag. Why don't you share it?

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Well, yes. We understand that scripture in Lamentations that says His mercies are new every morning. And just scientifically to back this up with a biological fact: every time we go to sleep at night, our brain rewires through this process of the cerebrospinal fluid coming up and washing over our brain. It allows everything that we might have done in the previous 24 hours—it washes away those toxic neurons and it allows for 30,000 firings of brand-new neurons upon waking.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And it's called 30,000 new mercies.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So in reality, we literally get 30,000 new chances every single day. Sometimes we might feel like the day before we screwed up, we let our temper get away with us, we opened our mouth when we shouldn't have, we reacted instead of responded. But the Lord gives us through His grace the ability when we go to sleep at night, He says it's okay, tomorrow you can start again. And just to show you, I'm going to give you 30,000 chances to get it right.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And 30,000 opportunities. 30,000 doors. Chances for hope.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And speaking of doors, Dr. Robyn, we have to reemphasize this because You've said that the Father spoke Himself out through Jesus. That's why Jesus can say, "I am the door." There is no one that can come except through me. There is no other way.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And there is no other way because God chose the vessel. He chose the channel. He chose what He wanted to walk into.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. So I have a couple of power statements here that I wrote down in preparation for this. And I'd like to read this one out. I think it's a really important statement. It's not that the world is rejecting Jesus, it's that they've yet to be introduced to Jesus.

And I think sometimes we think that the world is first to reject. We know the scripture says you'll be rejected because of me. But I think that even the church sometimes hasn't been introduced to the real Jesus. I think we've been introduced to religion, I think we've been introduced to forms and programs and principles. But to be introduced to the real Jesus is to have not information, but relationship. See, the thing about information is it doesn't change you.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No, a person does.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Okay, let's go to my next key statement. Unfortunately, the places that Jesus cannot touch become the places that we truly never know Him.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And you're really quite an expert on this one because the emotions very much.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And another thing that's important to understand is He said love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. So the degree to which I know Jesus helps me to also know my neighbor.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: That's true. And that's the true meaning of the cross. The vertical and the horizontal. What are they?

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So the vertical is me and God and my relationship with Him. And then the horizontal is through that relationship, me and others.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Others, which forms the cross.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Which brings us to the intersection of where His heart is: our relationship with God and our relationship with others. So I just want to bring out a couple of important statements here. Jesus is the door from death to life. He is the door from fear to love. He is the door from living a life of survival to living a life of trust.

You want to break out of survival? Then learn to trust Jesus. You don't have to survive this life. You can actually trust that He has a plan for your life and it's a good plan.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Very good plan. And He knows that plan.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And that's what New York City needs to realize. So many people are walking around here as we're looking out at Times Square. They don't know that they are known, fully known by God. And so our mission by the grace of God is to reveal the message that Jesus is real, relevant, and relational.

And if you happen to drive in on the way to New York City through that Lincoln Tunnel, you'll see a little billboard there that says Jesus is real, relevant, and relational. And He's speaking to you. And that's what we want to remind the people of New York and New Jersey and the Tri-State area, whoever's here. Jesus is speaking. Not just God—Jesus is speaking.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Because Jesus came to bring the Father's will. He speaks the Father's will. And the Holy Spirit activates the Father's will. There's a real relationship going between that in the Godhead.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And so, Dr. Robyn, you know, the Hebrew word for door is Dalet. And that means He's saying, "I am the door." And when I think about doors, I think of them as being entrances and transitions to another place that I need to go.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: A journey. When you open a door, you're going on a journey. So the door of salvation is not the end of the journey. No, it's only the first work of grace.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Please explain that.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, when we get saved, right, we find Jesus. He actually finds us. Let's change that. He actually finds us and we accept that. And then we have this love relationship. It's like a honeymoon, the first love.

But we must move on in this journey. So we go from that journey as we open the door, gets opened, we walk through it, we have that first part of the journey. But there's a second work of grace. That second work of grace teaches us what the cross is all about. And it also teaches us what the Holy Spirit is all about. We don't learn that when we first come to salvation. And if we try to shove it all in at once, we lose it too quick.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's like we have that euphoria, I should say, of being saved and having all things become new. And all things in the process of becoming new.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Becoming is a process.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: But it is a process. And I think sometimes we think because we've said that prayer, everything's just going to work out.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No, there's no magic wand. None at all. It's a process of a walk.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And so salvation is not the destination of the door.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It's the beginning.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's the beginning of the journey through the door, through Jesus. So the reason that many people would maybe know of Jesus and not know Jesus is because maybe they admire the door without going through it.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Maybe. The door's open.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And that's what we're here to tell New York City. Don't just admire the door, walk through it and let it lead you to complete transformation. Because salvation is just the beginning, it's not the end.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And it's the Holy Spirit that causes us to be transformed into His image. The Lord's image, Jesus' image.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And that's powerful to me as someone who studies neuroscience because that means every day my brain is an adaptation machine. So I don't have to settle for thinking the way I thought yesterday. If I allow Jesus to know me and I know Jesus, I can be transformed into His image. His thoughts can become my thoughts. And His ways can become my ways. It doesn't have to be a performance effort.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No. The more you know Jesus, the more His ways will be your ways.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: We need a gem button for that one, Dr. Robyn. We got some people in the audience saying amen. All right, so I'd like to give process before we close out, Dr. Robyn. I'm going to do this and then I'm going to throw it to you for your final words. I want to give a couple of key markers about am I living a relationship or am I living information with Jesus?

So I just want to quickly throw these out. Key marker one: I want us to remember this. Information gives facts, but relationship gives formation. So you can't have a relationship with facts. What does that mean? Memorizing scripture is important, right? Knowing theology is important. But Jesus said you search the scriptures, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Yes, reading the Bible is important. That is to get you to know the character of God. But you have to have an active relationship for that word to come alive. Otherwise, the Bible says it will kill you.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So the next marker here that I'd like to say is information always wants answers, whereas relationship wants trust. So if I'm having information with God, it's like God, give me an answer, tell me this about my life.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: There's no relationship in yes and no. No relationship in that.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Whereas trust says I can trust You even when I don't know or understand what's next. And so information seeks the certainty of life, but relationship develops trust in uncertainty. So when I can develop trust to know, hey God, I don't know what's going on here, but I'm just going to trust You because I know Your character, that's a relationship. I'm moving out of knowing about God to knowing Him completely. What do you think about that, Dr. Robyn?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think that's exactly what it's about. And then we will know Him, you see. But I'm thinking about our steps, how they're ordered by the Lord. And I'm saying they're ordered, they're not being ordered, they're already ordered. And we need to know that, and we need to trust that.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Wow. Another key marker, number three, just to help someone listening: information always makes us an observer. It makes us separate from the actual feeling and the participation, whereas relationship means you are a participant. You are actually involved in receiving as well as giving.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Because relationship takes two people. It takes two to tango, they say. Yeah, there's got to be two to communicate, to have communion, you see.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Unfortunately, there are a lot of great theologians out there and there's a lot of great principle, but we could study Jesus and never walk with Him.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Sad to say that one.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And I think that happened in His day. There were 300 that stayed with Him because of the great principles, but there came a point where those that were really with Him stayed with Him.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Only 12. And one was a betrayer.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Another key marker before we start to wrap up and I throw it to you for your final words: information will change opinion, but relationship changes our identity. So we can't just be interested in getting our opinion changed. God wants to change our identity.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes. And our opinion can cause more problems. Wisdom, a lot of zeal without wisdom, it's dangerous.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Well, look at all the opinions that are posted around us right now in all these different doctrines and different sayings. Before we go, I just want to give this last marker and then I'll hand it to you for your final words, Dr. Robyn. Our information, unfortunately, lives in the mind. But relationship lives in the entire person, and especially the heart. And Dr. Robyn, you've always taught about God lives in your heart.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: That's what the scripture says. He reads the heart. That's where the Spirit says He dwells, in the heart of man.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: So why don't you wrap this up as we come to our final words? I know we've had a great time. We're down here in New York City broadcasting live, and we're giving this message to New York City that God wants to know New York, Jesus wants to know New York, and He wants New York to know Him. So why don't you wrap it up, Dr. Robyn?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, I just wanted to say that God has a heart field that He wants to bring you into. His heart field. You don't bring Him into your heart field. He brings you into His heart field, and He brings you to know Jesus.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: And the Father is the one that will reveal the Son because He wants to reveal His Son to you. Amen. Thank you so much. We'll see you on Monday, First Love.

Announcer: Thanks for spending time with us today on First Love. If today's message spoke to you, share it with someone. And if you're looking for more teachings, visit www.torcc.org. That's T-O-R-C-C dot org for more. We'll be back next week, same time, same truth. And as you go, don't forget: the one who loved you first is still loving you best.