First Love

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Hello everybody, and welcome to First Love. My name is Dr. Nathan Kassas, and I have the wonderful, the amazing, the glamorous, and the very fashionable Dr. Robyn Kassas. Dr. Robyn, how are you today?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, after that comment, I must be feeling good.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's my mission to keep strapping you with all these things because then you'll believe the ancient truth that's always been there.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Then my body will take in a new message.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Beneath the schema.

Dr. Dr. Robyn Kassas: Yes.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Well, Dr. Robyn, we actually last week came to a very important crescendo of our series. We've been getting a lot of feedback about the schema/rhema dynamic.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think it was a subject that was really being opened by the Holy Spirit because it's all about coming to a place of having a renewed mind. Even getting a heart of flesh rather than a stony heart and having a look at what and how we look after the very temple of God.

This is the whole man. I think people are being challenged to see some of their thinking is pretty stinky.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I know that some of my thinking is completely stinky, and that's why God tells us to take it off and put on his thinking. Funny enough, when I was actually doing research for the schema/rhema thing, I didn't see that Paul used the word from the schematic to be conformed in Romans 12:2.

That root word comes from the word schema, literally. It was such a revelation that this was something that we had learned in psychology about schemas, and I just wanted to use Romans 12:2 as an example to say, "Well, here is a schema being addressed by Paul." To my amazement, it was actually the root word in the Greek that Paul was using to address the conforming to the world's patterns.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I noticed some of our listeners work in the area of schemas in the technical area of computers and programming and such. This made sense to them. Maybe it was a good thing to be able to open that up so that they could possibly get more understanding as well.

I think it was a very moved message from the Holy Spirit to bring importance to what we are doing and if we are living the blueprint of God in our lives.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I love that language that we're using, the blueprint, because blueprint refers to prints for a house. Like something that has been built before you even moved in. God's blueprint, and it's what you brought in when you moved in that got rid of the actual original design.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think that this is probably a live situation for us. We're now sitting in our recording booth, and we've just built what we call the Hub. Therefore, exactly what you've just said, it was built and now we've moved in with its original plan.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: As long as we stick to the original plan, we will always bring out the purpose that the Hub was built for, and you'll see that unfold.

If you are joining us for the first time on this Monday afternoon listening in, we have been going through a series called The Gates of Jerusalem. Again, Dr. Robyn, something the Lord just revealed to me about the gates with Nehemiah. I was reading one day in the scriptures and I just started thinking these gates represent conversations; they represent a believer's journey.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It's definitely a conversation.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: To my amazement, there's been a lot of theology on this after doing the research. There's been a lot of scriptural teaching and actual groundbreaking theology on this.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think so because it points to not just a general thing. It actually focuses on something relevant like salvation, baptism, and resurrection. All these different moves of God in our lives.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I've seen everything from Sunday school resources about the gates to in-depth graduate articles written by top theologians about how the ten gates of Nehemiah represent a journey that we go on with the Lord in our salvation journey and our journey through progressive sanctification to become more like Christ.

We have to go through each gate. Now we have brought it into the language of having the conversation. I think that's where we can bring it into a modern-day feel. It's not just going through a stage of life; it's having the conversation.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Well, it's like that real relevant, relational relationship. Creating that communication with the Lord over every gate as an entry point for where God wants to be and the conversation that needs to be had about every subject.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: I remember that the gates are there in the New Jerusalem. It's a gated city made of gates. So each gate represents what conversation you had with the Lord down here. Because that New Jerusalem is a gated city, and Pastor Tony kept reminding me of that.

He's like, "Don't forget the New Jerusalem is a gated city." So if I went through the Fish Gate down here, it might show that level of intimacy in that New Jerusalem. Some are street sweepers and some are pillars in the temple. I know that's not a popular thing in the church, but it is the truth of the scripture.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think the importance of this is, you're saying that there's a lot of study on it and a lot of teaching on it, but we need to have the conversation about what God is revealing to us about the teaching on it.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's got to go beyond just being ancient truth. It's got to descend into us. We're going to come to that gate once we're finished with this other one.

Just to whet your appetite, we are moving very soon into the Valley Gate, which is the next gate.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Which you just described in what you just said.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Gave a little teaser. The truth cannot just be around us; it has to descend into us.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Into us, yes.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: The descend, not the ascend.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: A valley. Valleys are always descending. It's not ascending; that's mountaintops. Oh, my Lord.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Before we get into the Valley Gate, as we come up to the break and we are getting ready to bring you to a close of the Old Gate, we're saying goodbye to the Old Gate. Maybe we'll see you soon because we're going to come back and revisit ancient truth all the time.

Dr. Robyn felt from the spirit that we needed to add a little bit more to this schema/scheme/rhema dynamic.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Because there are signs and markers and even scriptural support for biblical examples as well. But we can't just automatically say, "I'm moving in this way now."

We have to look and, as I always say, look at the fruit of it. Always focus on what God is saying to you and recognize. These things can't be left out of it, and we have to examine certain things happening in these blueprints in our life or are they hiding what is really going on.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: That's the thing I love about the truth. The truth always identifies with markers that are different from the lie. The lie has markers and the truth has markers. I think we get so caught up in the emergency or the rush of the situation at the time that we forget to look for those markers. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think that's where we're coming.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: When we come back, we are going to dive into how to discern what is the difference between a schema, a scheme, and a rhema. By the grace of God, we're going to arm you with some very important identifiers or markers that will help you to discern whether this is a schema, a scheme, or a rhema. We'll come back.

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Dr. Nathan Kassas: All righty everybody, we are back. It's good on this Monday just to have a little recap. I feel like Moses; pull out the book of the law every seven years and revise it and go over it.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I also think we have to know: is our schema really God's rhema?

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Now we would like to dive in before we move into the Valley Gate. We're going to go into five very specific things on each episode that we believe will arm you with the ability to discern: am I trying to class my schema as God's rhema? I'd like to read a couple of things here.

Sometimes a schema does not present itself as the typical fear, and sometimes it presents itself as wisdom.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Oh, my Lord.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Sometimes it can present itself as discernment, and sometimes it can present itself as prophetic impression. You know that saying that we as prophetic people do, "The Lord's just impressing upon me."

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And "God told me."

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Is he really impressing upon you or is your schema impressing upon you?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Sometimes when we borrow spiritual language and say that very statement, "God told me."

Dr. Nathan Kassas: But the question is: did God tell me or did I feel this strongly? We have to bring a clarification here.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: The source has to be fruit, alignment, witness of what I am calling rhema.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: The first marker that we want to point out is Number One: The Source Marker. The question that the Source Marker always is going to ask is: did this begin in fear or did it begin in God? Dr. Robyn, the Holy Spirit has been challenging me. He does not birth anything through fear.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Even the good fears?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No, nothing in fear.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Even the fear of not pleasing him?

Dr. Robyn Kassas: No, nothing in fear. Our God does not need fear to reveal himself.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Fear is false evidence appearing real. Fear reveals wrong evidence. This is really powerful if you're listening as a believer. Even the fear of the Lord; I'm wanting to recategorize how I look at that. It's the reverence of the Lord, not the fear of the Lord. I know that we use the word fear. We are to fear the God that we love.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think we could add to it and say the reverent fear. But if you put reverence in front of it, it changes the implication of the fear.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Most of the time, a schema begins with the word threat. A threat arises that we feel internally or externally, and that threat will always lead us to do something based on a fear. Fear is always going to tell you to do something.

A schema can feel powerful because it is familiar, but a rhema is powerful because it is from God and it is aligned with his word. The source of a rhema is usually not familiar. It doesn't feel familiar when God speaks. Even though he speaks all the time, he never wants you to feel familiar or get comfortable in thinking, "Oh, yes, that's God speaking." It's a way that he keeps you on the edge through faith.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: I think so because that is exactly where we're supposed to live, on the edge of the spirit through faith. There's a saying that the Pentecostals used, and I'm trying to remember it. It was not just the edge, but a revelation of something.

But it's the way we are to live. God is not living in comfort. The spirit is living on the edge. That's where no predictability can happen. You cannot out-see God, out-do God, or out-anything God.

When you live on the cutting edge of the truth—I mentioned it to someone the other day—if you were to fall, then that's what the law is for. This is like a springboard or a trampoline; a springboard that would just spring you straight back into the cutting edge.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: You can't stay down there, but you can spring back into the spirit again.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: It becomes like a safety net that catches you, but it bounces you back up right back to the cutting edge of the rhema of God.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It's like those circus acts when they have trapeze and they have that net underneath. If they fall, the net bounces them right back up to be able to grab the trapeze. They don't have to climb the ladder.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: But it's not even just bouncing you back; it bounces you back to the rhema. That walking by the spirit.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: The law not only interrupts the schema; it bounces you back to the rhema. Then you begin to dream again. A source marker is important for you to identify. Rhema may confront danger, but rhema does not need fear to be its source.

God does not need you to be afraid to confront what has been killing you. Remember Adam and Eve: "I hid because I was afraid."

Dr. Robyn Kassas: And the other scripture is, "The fear that I feared has come upon me." That should give us a look at how powerful fear can be.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Again, I want to throw in a very important scripture. We always quote this one, but I'm going to bring the scientific progression of it because Paul often writes in series. He often does this thing where he always puts threes together. People just think it's just coincidental, but he's actually giving you a process.

He's giving you a stage-step of how it works. 2 Timothy 1:7: "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind." Here is the key with this. Here is the progression: you have to take back your power.

The power that you've given fear. You cannot have a sound mind with love alone; they have to work together. I exercise my power, which brings back the reality of the love of God, which reduces the stress and the anxiety and the demonic infiltration and releases a sound mind.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: That's what we need to be able to understand a rhema. Paul—he received a rhema about David. Saul, I mean, not Paul. Saul, he received this rhema, but he didn't walk with that rhema.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: It was the voice of God showing him that David was the man after his own heart. But here's the key: that rhema got pulled into a schema because of fear. Fear of being replaced.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: Comparison and threat.

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Saul did not receive a rhema about David after he received a schema from the enemy. Initially, it was the Lord through Samuel saying God has appointed someone else, a man after his own heart. That was Samuel speaking a rhema, but when it went through the filtration of Saul, because Saul received it with a heart of fear, it became a schema.

Dr. Robyn Kassas: You have to be very careful if that's the case. You must examine, locate the fruit, and recognize what is going on so that you can work with the Holy Spirit to see who is giving you this. Is this the schema or the blueprint of the world, or is this a rhema from the Holy Spirit?

Dr. Nathan Kassas: Praise God, the Lord can interrupt the schema long enough for God to confront the schema underneath it. We have to let God confront the scheme to find the schema that's interrupting God's rhema.

Saul's schema made David feel dangerous, and then Saul's schemes tried to control exactly what he feared. 1 Samuel 18:9 says, "Saul eyed David from that day forward." Something changed, Dr. Robyn.