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The Bible speaks of Pergamon as a place where Satan's throne is. But what happened to the ancient altar associated with that city, and why could its story still matter today? Jonathan Cahn joins us to discuss his powerful new work, The Altar of Pergamon.

We are back with Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. If you've heard the programs thus far, you're really excited to hear this one. This is the last one, but of course we do have the book, The Altar of Pergamon: The Mystery of the Dark Angel and the Future of the World. We're also offering, as we indicated before, The Altar of Pergamon Uncensored. Jonathan said a few words about that in the past, and we'll get back with him. I hope you're really getting a lot out of this. I know I am. It's always a delight to be with Rabbi Cahn. He's a man of God, he's a man of inspiration. I know the Lord has touched his heart. I think it's so wonderful that we could have a Messianic Jew, you might say, who believes in Yeshua. Hallelujah.

It's so wonderful when I think of our brothers and sisters in Israel and around the world and think of the love they have for Jesus. There are many who are following Jesus. It's sometimes very costly, but Jesus is worth it all. He's the pearl of great price. Rabbi Cahn, good to see you again. We're looking at each other on Zoom. Good to see you again.

Jonathan Cahn: Always great to be back, Larry.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Let's begin. For those who didn't hear the first program, what does your new book, The Altar of Pergamon, reveal?

Jonathan Cahn: The Altar of Pergamon's subtitle is The Mystery of the Dark Angel and the Future of the World. This is such a gigantic, colossal mystery that begins in Revelation 2,000 years ago, and it goes to the very moment we're in right now. This mystery is so big it has literally changed, altered, and redirected the history of the world not once, but again and again.

It's going to explain things that you might see in history. Behind that was that? Behind this was that? Behind Hitler was that? Behind the atomic explosion was that? Behind the Cold War was that? Behind Communism was that? Behind anti-Semitism? It's amazing, but that's what we would expect.

Who's behind that? It's literally linked to this altar that was in the dust of the ages. It was this ancient altar in Pergamon in Revelation. It was abandoned when the Gospel came. It fell into ruins and it was like the throne of Satan, the power of Satan was restrained. That altar was in the ground.

But all of a sudden, somebody made the big mistake of not only discovering it, but uncovering it, unearthing it, and moving it from the ancient Middle East to Europe, to Germany. Everything from then on—everything, world wars. I didn't plan on saying this, but remember there was a Twilight Zone episode where a guy, they say they have Satan. This religious group said we have Satan locked up and it's a guy there. The guy says to the man who's staying the night, "Listen, they're crazy. Just let me go, let me go." Finally, he takes the key and lets him go. All of a sudden he says, "Then came World War I, World War II."

It was all a Twilight Zone. It's not a Twilight Zone. It's real. This is like Indiana Jones but real. It's even got the Nazis, but it's real. It's the other side and it's like The Da Vinci Code but for God. It's like Lord of the Rings, this evil object, but it's real and God is real. I'm praying that this has the potential to reach people not just who love it, but reach people in your life who don't know the Lord because they're going to say, "Wow, a thing about that? That sounds cool." It comes in a story, even though you're going to get about 200 mysteries revealed. It's in a story.

Southwest Radio Ministries: I want to ask you this question again, and we've done it before, but is there any hope? I mean, supposing I'm a young woman or a young man and it looks like the world is going crazy. It does seem like the world is going crazy. Is there any hope, or are we just doomed to misery? Tell us about that. Is there hope in Yeshua?

Jonathan Cahn: Yes. Every book I've written leads to hope. There's always hope. That's what this is all about. The thing is that there's not really hope if you don't know what you're dealing with. If you're not dealing with and you don't know, that's the whole point. What this is saying is, listen, it's not out of control. What the Bible says is true. This all goes back to the Bible. What the Bible says is true.

The thing is that behind what we see in the world is actually a spiritual war. There are spiritual forces. This is showing you this is not—somebody might say, "Well, I don't believe in the Bible." Listen, this is showing you this is real. What the Bible says is real. Real dates, real times, real places, and real events that have literally affected your life. No matter who you are on this planet, it's affected your life, it's affected where you are, and it will affect the future.

Southwest Radio Ministries: I think the whole issue is: is the Bible real? That is very important because a lot of people think it's a lot of fairy tales, doesn't have anything to do with it, it's old-fashioned, tells a lot of Jewish stories, and so forth. I think you're making a point here that's so effective for the modern American or any person who's concerned and says, "Can I trust the Bible?" Yes, we can, and there is hope in Yeshua, Jesus Christ.

Jonathan Cahn: If the devil is real, you know God has to be real. God is more real and God wins. Yeshua, his real name Yeshua, means God is salvation. He's our salvation, he's our hope. It's for everybody. This book leads to that. It leads to him, it leads to salvation, and it leads even the main character to salvation. It's going to lead anybody who reads it towards salvation.

Southwest Radio Ministries: I know I'm so blessed that I'm a Christian because you know what we do at Southwest Radio Church. We deal with a lot of really crazy stuff. What's going on in the world is fearsome. I could get up every night and have nightmares and not get any sleep. However, I have peace in my heart because I know the Lord.

Friends, I may be speaking to you in this program. You may feel the same way. You look at the news, you turn on the TV, you hear some nutcase in Iran say something, and all these things are going on. Is there hope? Yes, there is. Without Jesus, you cannot survive. You'll be a mental wreck. You'll need to see a psychiatrist or 10 psychiatrists. But Jesus Christ puts life together. Jesus Christ gives you hope and makes it true that you can have a family, you can raise kids, you can plan for tomorrow, you can plan for the vacation next year. In Jesus, there is hope.

I thank you, Jonathan Cahn, for bringing the message of hope, for bringing the message of salvation, and showing that the Bible is real and that it talks about real-life events. As we continue, each time a new entity came into possession of the altar, it began to rise as a world power. Now, what about the last change of possession? What happened and what's going to happen in the future?

Jonathan Cahn: If you look at the beginning of it, at one point in the 19th century, the Ottoman Empire had the altar, the Turkish Empire. Now, it was buried, but it had the altar. The Ottoman Empire had been a major empire. As soon as it starts losing the altar, the altar gets transferred to Germany, guess what happens? The Ottoman Empire collapses and Germany begins to rise as a world power. It keeps rising and rising until the end of World War II, when Germany loses the altar. When it loses the altar, Germany collapses because it's taken over. It totally collapses. But it also loses the evil of Nazism, too. So it's a double-edged sword, you're losing evil.

Then where do we see the altar go? The Soviet Union. The Soviet Union then goes from being a communist power to the world's other superpower. It starts spreading across the world until we said one out of every three people in the world was under communism, under Marxism. Now, we see the next thing is the Berlin Wall falls. That's where the altar is, the throne of Satan. It cuts off the Soviet Union. The communist world no longer has the altar.

What happens to the communist world? It collapses. It's like clocks. It's amazing. You can look at history through the altar. Then the Soviet Union collapsed. So the question is then: what is the power that is possessing it? The answer is—and we began to allude to this mystery and this goes right into end-time prophecy—the answer is now it's so big, it's the world that's going to possess the altar. Each time it's like a bigger power. The Soviet Union was bigger than Nazi Germany. Now it's the world. Ever since then, it's been moving to globalization, moving to a New World Order. There's going to be bumps along the way, but it's ultimately going to move there.

Southwest Radio Ministries: When we talk about the altar, are we talking about a platform, a raised something or other? What is this altar that we're talking about?

Jonathan Cahn: The Altar of Pergamon is an ancient altar called the Great Altar. It is so massive that you would say it's a temple. It looks more like you would say it looks like a temple, but it's an altar. It's got steps leading up to it. Again, it was recreated for Hitler to stand on top of. There's like a podium. He was standing right in front of where the fire would be on the ancient altar, and he was literally calling for a fire on the world. It's literally gigantic.

Southwest Radio Ministries: So it was probably transported in a large truck or maybe on a train?

Jonathan Cahn: It's so big you could not even do that. It's so big that when it was transported, it's broken up. They broke it up into pieces and they put it together again. When they found it in Turkey, it was already in pieces and they came on thousands of pieces. Then when Russia got it from Berlin, they found it in the bunker, they put it on trains, thousands of things going there. That's how big it is.

Southwest Radio Ministries: In the book, you write of the winged creature. What is that and why is it significant?

Jonathan Cahn: This goes along with another mystery. In the past, the West has always been more on the right side. It was more the West that was opposing Hitler. It was the West that was opposing communism. It was the West versus the East. But now the altar is in the West. It's sort of in the one-world thing because it's all joined, East and West are now joining together. But it's the West, so what does that mean? It means that the West that was known for being—during the Cold War you had a quote, "Christian America," versus godless Soviet Union, which had the altar.

But now when the altar went to the West, look what's happening. The West is de-Christianizing rapidly. Most of this happened after the altar came. It accelerated. We're watching it in Europe. Now we're watching it in America. It's an interesting thing that now we're having it—we always said the West is right, America, America, America. Now there are questions about what America is and what it's going to become. So this does—you talk about how it affects us—it affects all of us right now in America.

So the winged creature. This is something, by the way, I probably may not talk about on any other program because we have time to talk about it. But I do in the book. Remember we're doing a lot of stuff, but we can barely touch on how much more is there. So that's why get the book, get the DVD album, you'll be blessed.

There was on the Altar of Pergamon an image of a winged creature. It's this creature, the goddess called Nike. We get Nike, Nikē, which means victory. This was the attendant to Zeus. She was the charioteer goddess that would bring Zeus wherever Zeus went, she would bring Zeus there. It's interesting because before the altar appears in Europe, the image of that goddess appears in Europe first, almost like a sign that he's coming, that the Altar of Pergamon, which is the Altar of Zeus, is going to come to Europe.

You know where it particularly appears? In Berlin. In Berlin. So it has reappeared. We're going to see something that has to do with an American president in a second that's actually linked to it. The goddess Nike in Rome became the goddess Victoria. This goddess was in her image and her altar was in the Senate of Rome. When Rome started becoming Christian, there was a battle over that goddess, that image, that altar. The Christian senators said get this out of here. The pagan senator said no. The whole fight of the future of Western civilization was based on that winged goddess.

She ultimately disappeared. They took her out. The Altar of Pergamon of Zeus disappeared, the goddess disappeared. But now she's reappearing. She reappears with the altar. If the disappearance of the goddess was a sign of the Christianization of the West, what does her reappearance mean? The de-Christianization. That's why when you take God out, that's when you get Hitler and communism and the antichrist.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Is the Altar of Pergamon actually connected to a recent American president?

Jonathan Cahn: Yes. The answer is yes. A man is rising to power. He comes from America and where does he go? He goes to Berlin, the throne of Satan. There he stands before the world and actually he stands on the ground where the altar was hidden when it was in Berlin. He speaks to the whole world and he calls the world to become as one. Who is the man? Barack Obama.

He comes to the throne of Satan, speaks to the world, and stands under the image of the winged goddess of de-Christianization. Then he returns from Pergamon, from the throne of Satan, goes to the Democratic Convention to receive the nomination to become president. But before he does, they build in back of him a strange object. They build a reproduction of the Altar of Pergamon, the throne of Satan.

The thing is, I don't even know if they knew it or not. But the point is that in the book, I'm showing how each part matches up. Column and column matching up with this, the steps are there, everything is there. From there he receives it. What did we see under that time in America? We saw a de-Christianization. Particularly then and onward to this day. So this is affecting the West and he was like the leader of the West. It's affecting all that. Now just like with Rome, we're having a battle back and forth for America and the West. But this is the sign of the altar.

Southwest Radio Ministries: That is—the way you bring that together—I remember Barack Obama and it all fits very perfectly. When he was president, we wondered about the man. Many Christians were very concerned. This reveals so much. What will the coming kingdom be like? Can we learn something about the future about the Kingdom of God on Earth? What do we learn from this?

Jonathan Cahn: Think about this now. What was the last power to have the Altar of Pergamon, throne of Satan, when it was actually functioning, when there was a fire going? It was Rome. Rome was the last power to have it. When the Gospel came in, what happened? Pagan Rome disappears and then Rome disappears, the altar disappears, and Rome disappears. The Altar of Satan or of Zeus and pagan Rome disappeared, even the goddess disappeared together.

So what would happen if the altar is returning to the world? What else would we say would return to the world? Rome in another form. What does the Bible say? It speaks of a one-world state which is a form of the Roman Empire in some form or another. So we are watching even that.

Notice the pattern. Every time the altar comes to a land, what can we say about that land? Remember, the altar is of Satan. Satan hates Christians, he hates God, he hates Jews, he hates Israel. What do we see with every nation that gets the altar? They hate the Jews: Nazi Germany. They hate Christianity: Nazi Germany. What happens to the Soviet Union? Hates Christianity, hates Israel, is the arch-enemy of Israel. So what is this next coming civilization going to be? It's going to hate Israel, hate the Jewish people. It is going to hate Christians. It's going to be a persecutor of Christians. It's going to war against Israel, exactly in line with end-time prophecy. It's like a new Roman state. And what is it going to possess? The throne of Satan. Here you're talking about the antichrist, it's going to possess the throne of Satan.

Southwest Radio Ministries: You know, I'm very concerned about our leadership in America. At one time, and I think it's correct, we always had a high regard for Israel. Israel was our friend. We would protect Israel. But now I see something in our leadership that's going back and forth and kind of wants to deal with Iran and forget Israel, throw Israel under the bus, and tell Israel not to fight Hezbollah anymore, stop fighting Hezbollah when Hezbollah has always been an enemy so close. What is going on? The altar seems to be moving in this direction.

Jonathan Cahn: The altar is in the West now. So it's affecting us. America is like the last holdout. But if America turns away from God, which it's been doing, and Israel at the same time—well, all bets are off then. You turn away—we've got to pray. You turn away from Israel, there's an ancient covenant that kicks in. America's blessed because it's blessed God and blessed Israel. If it turns away from both, all bets are off.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Right. Israel doesn't need America; America needs Israel.

Jonathan Cahn: In the ultimate picture, yes, absolutely. I'll tell you a mystery of an ancient myth I put in the book that has to do with our times. Listen and you'll see how it comes together. There's an ancient myth of a Phoenician princess who the god Zeus lusts after, wants her. So he turns himself into a bull and he goes over there, he's a nice-looking bull and she likes it, she gets on top of it, and all of a sudden he takes off with her, abducts her and then seduces her. It's abduction.

But here's the thing. The name of the ancient princess, Phoenician princess, is Europa, from which we get the word Europe. In fact, Europe pretty much calls itself Europa. Europa is an ancient Phoenician princess in the myth. Notice something. She's a princess who gets seduced by a false god and goes gets carried away with a false god. Notice in the Book of Revelation you have an imagery of a woman on a beast. Notice that Europe was the center of Christendom, but now it's going off to the other, it's apostasy.

The thing is, you know what? When the European Union established itself, they built a statue of what? Of Europa being carried away by Zeus. What's on the Euro? Europa. It's a woman who's carried away by a false god. Who's behind Zeus? Satan is. Here's the other thing. You have Europa and you have Zeus. So you have Europe and what do you have? The Altar of Zeus. So now Pergamon is another whole dimension of the mystery. The Altar of Zeus is brought to the land of Europa and now Europa gets seduced, Europe gets seduced. It's going to be the center of the world and goes off to worship the other god or Satan and the antichrist. It all goes back, even the name of Europe has the mystery in it.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Jonathan, we're almost out of time, but I want to ask you one final question. What is the final word?

Jonathan Cahn: There's a whole part which is the origin of the mystery and that has the answer of the mystery that is linked to the Temple Mount. There's actually a sign on the Temple Mount right now of the throne of Satan. We won't go into it, but it's in the book, it's in the DVD.

But to say this, the final word: listen, if Satan is real, God is more real. One of the things that this tells you is God is in control. If Satan has a false altar, God has a real altar. It's called the Cross. He doesn't take life, he gives his life. So the hope: listen, Satan cannot win, he will not win, he cannot win. For thousands of years, he's been trying to wipe out the children of Israel, trying to wipe out the Jews. Every power, the powers that had the altar, they're all gone. But Israel lives because the God of Israel lives. The Messiah of Israel lives, which is Jesus, Yeshua of Israel lives, and if you follow him, you're going to live and you're going to prevail and you're going to have victory. So listen, fight the good fight and know you have an enemy, but overcome because you're on the winning side. In the end, God wins.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Hallelujah. Glory to God. Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, thank you so much. What a wonderful program. God bless you. I know he's blessed you in a mighty way. Friends, you'll want to listen, you'll want to get the book, The Altar of Pergamon, and you'll also want to get The Altar of Pergamon Uncensored. This is amazing material that you can have at your fingertips. You can show it at a Sunday evening service, you can show it at home, have folks over to your house. I mean there are so many uses for a Wednesday Bible study, whatever. This is a great opportunity for you. Rabbi Cahn, thank you again. I'm looking forward to doing another program on another book next year. Hallelujah.

Jonathan Cahn: Then I'll have to write another book just so we can do this. God bless you, brother.

Southwest Radio Ministries: What if an ancient altar identified in the Book of Revelation with Satan's throne held a mystery that could help explain the rise and fall of empires and what may be coming next? Jonathan Cahn is back with his explosive new book, The Altar of Pergamon: The Mystery of the Dark Angel and the Future of the World. Jonathan Cahn takes you into a mystery stretching back more than 2,000 years, connecting the ancient city of Pergamon, the course of modern history, and events unfolding in our world today. It's a gripping journey asking one chilling question: when the throne moves, does history change?

And Southwest Radio Ministries is taking you even deeper with the exclusive Altar of Pergamon Uncensored eight-DVD album. You'll see the mysteries come alive with stunning images, additional revelations not included in the book, plus special teachings on wormwood, spiritual warfare, overcoming in the last days, living victoriously, and much more. Get the brand-new book and the exclusive eight-DVD set together in The Altar of Pergamon collection. Order yours today at swrc.com or call 1-800-652-1144. Don't just read the mystery. See it, hear it, and discover what it could mean for the future. The Altar of Pergamon collection, book and eight-DVD set by Jonathan Cahn. 1-800-652-1144.

Tomorrow, Josh Davis will deliver the latest headlines from the end times. Be sure to tune in by downloading our free SWRC mobile app or by subscribing to our daily Watchman on the Wall podcast. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. Visit swrc.com.