Watchman on the Wall

Southwest Radio Ministries: Welcome to Watchman on the Wall, a daily outreach of Southwest Radio Ministries and swrc.com. God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. Today we begin a deep dive into replacement theology with pastor and author Dr. Mike Spalding. Then a little later, Greg Patton will encourage us as we live in today's world.

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When Hamas attacked Israel on October 7, 2023, shockingly, many in the world turned against Israel. Even in the church, anti-Semitism continues to grow. What role does replacement theology play in this? What is replacement theology? How did it enter the church and how is it impacting the church today? Dr. Mike Spalding joins Josh Davis to expose the root of replacement theology right now on today's Watchman on the Wall.

Josh Davis: Greetings friends, and today I am excited to have a new guest on Watchman on the Wall. It is Dr. Mike Spalding. Mike, welcome to Watchman on the Wall.

Dr. Mike Spalding: Josh, thank you so much for the invitation. I have been looking forward to this conversation.

Josh Davis: Yes, me too. We are going to be discussing replacement theology, and if our listeners are familiar, that is something that we have been addressing a lot. But the unique thing about today and tomorrow's programs is that Dr. Mike has put together a helpful resource, a wonderful book simply called *Replacement Theology*. We will be sharing more information about the content of the book. Mike, why don't you introduce yourself to our listening audience? It is the first time we have had you on our program and we are excited that you have joined us. Just introduce yourself to our listeners.

Dr. Mike Spalding: Thank you, Josh. I am a pastor in west-central Ohio at Calvary Chapel. I have been a pastor affiliated with them for nearly 30 years. My wife Kathy and I have been blessed by the Lord to have planted two Calvary Chapel churches, one in my hometown of all places. Now we are in Lima. We have been here for 21 years. We are blessed with four grown daughters, seven grandchildren, and three great-grandchildren now.

In this season, I am tackling some issues. This book is one of several that I am trying to write and get out because I think it is important for the body of Christ today to have a clear biblical, biblically based understanding of these issues. Replacement theology is certainly one of those.

Josh Davis: Absolutely. We are going to jump into some of the content. When Hamas attacked Israel back on October 7, 2023, we might have expected there to be a surge of support and the world to just really rally around Israel, denouncing terrorism with Hamas and all that they did. But something very different happened in the world. Can you explain what happened and why do you think the response happened to Israel the way that it did happen?

Dr. Mike Spalding: You are absolutely correct, Josh, that there seemed to be sympathy across the world initially for Israel and what happened, as you would expect. But that turned on a dime. Within just a few weeks, that sympathy turned into vehement, vitriolic pushback, hatred, and anger. What folks need to understand, and I am sure that your viewers understand this clearly, we see it today right now. We see it recently in Minnesota, New York, out on the West Coast, in Portland, and some other places.

What happens is when the enemies of America and the enemies of Christianity find something that needs to be pushed back, all of this money comes flooding in for paid protesters. None of this is natural. It is all paid for by enemies of America and enemies of Christianity. It is no different for what happened to Israel. When world opinion changed, Muslim Islamist jihadist money began pouring in from the normal sources to pay for the protests that started on college campuses. We are well aware of that. Jewish students were harassed and some were even attacked.

There was violence there. Regarding some of the blowback against that, President Trump has stepped in there and we are aware of the ongoing conversations between this administration and Harvard, for example, that they may lose their funding because they did not do anything to protect some of their students. It was all paid protests from Islamic organizations and Islamic nations against Israel. It is nothing new and we should have expected that. It says something about the moral capacity of the enemies of Israel that they are not concerned in the least about committing wickedness and evil against the Jewish people and the nation.

They simply want to eradicate them. The sooner that Christians understand that and the church rises up to oppose that vocally, the better off that we will be as a nation. We must oppose that kind of hatred and evil toward the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. I think there is a direct correlation between our response and reaction and treatment of the Jewish people and how our nation goes domestically. It certainly affects how it goes in foreign policy. I think there is a direct connection to that. If we treat Israel with evil, wickedly, I think we are going to suffer the consequences of that as a nation.

Josh Davis: Absolutely, and I agree with you 100%. We are seeing the things that are setting the stage in our nation today. Sadly, there is a teaching even among the church that the church has replaced Israel and that God has set aside Israel. In other words, the teaching is that Israel is not important in God's prophetic and redemptive program and that they do not matter. We are going to tie in a lot of other components to this. But before we get too far down the road, can you just explain for us what is replacement theology? How is it found in the church today? What kind of doctrinal systems really bring out this viewpoint of replacement theology?

Dr. Mike Spalding: Great question, Josh. As the name suggests, replacement theology is the idea that the church replaces Israel. It says Christians replace Jews and the New Testament replaces the Old Testament. Those are basic hermeneutical foundations. Those are the tenets of how many reformed theologies teach concerning Israel. They believe Israel has been replaced in all of those ways.

Those beliefs lead directly to a rejection of a literal millennial Messianic reign of Jesus, a thousand-year reign. It does away with that completely. It does away with the covenants and the promises. That is another one of the principles upon which replacement theology is based. It does away with the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants, all of the covenants that are yet to be fulfilled. They are co-opted for the church. In other words, the church receives all of Israel's blessings but none of the cursings. One of the things that I like to point out talking about this subject is how is it that the church receives the blessings but Israel can keep all the cursings? That is not how the covenants work.

We have seen that replacement theology through the years. There is a punitive form of replacement theology that is embedded in the idea that the Jews killed Jesus, so therefore we have got to reject the Jews. Then there is some that is called economic or dispensation supersessionism. That basically teaches that Israel was a transitory type of the church. According to that view, after Christ, the church became Israel. There is also structural supersessionism. That basically teaches that the Old Testament has to be interpreted or filtered through the New.

The New Testament becomes the interpretive lens through which we understand the Old. Your viewers can understand what that does is it mutes the Old. It creates a sort of canon within a canon where the New Testament is superior. The Old Testament takes a back seat, if it is even considered at all. It is popular today. There is a well-known son of a well-known pastor that said we need to unhitch ourselves from the Old Testament. In other words, his message was to disregard it and do not even bother with it. That is egregious at so many levels.

Josh Davis: It is. It is certainly tragic for our churches today. You mentioned supersessionism there. How is that linked to replacement theology? Is it one and the same? Can you explain that for our listeners?

Dr. Mike Spalding: It is one and the same. I went with replacement theology for the most part, but I do mention supersessionism in the text because that is the theological word that is used for it. Replacement theology is more widely known, heard, and understood. I went with that phrase, but they are one and the same.

Josh Davis: Thanks for clarifying that for us. Friends, we are visiting with Dr. Mike Spalding. We are talking about his book simply called *Replacement Theology*. We are examining the root, the fruit, and the consequences of this bad theological system. This is a great book and a great resource that you want to get in your hands. You can visit our website swrc.com. That is swrc.com. Or give us a call at 1-800-652-1144.

Mike, before we came on the air, we were talking about how we have had a lot of programming about replacement theology, but this year we have not really offered a resource to go with it. We are in the course of two programs just going to be scratching the surface on a lot of what you cover in the book. You really take that view apart and you show how it is biblically incorrect. I love about your book that it is not just about political theories and modern Israel, but you look deeply into the Word of God. We are going to touch on that in the course of our interviews.

Mike, we want to come back to understanding what the scripture says. But let's think about the why of this before we get into the scripture. Why does it matter? Why all this fuss about what Christians believe about Israel? Why should Christians be concerned about this issue?

Dr. Mike Spalding: That is a very important question. Adopting replacement theology or a belief that God is simply finished with the Jewish people and the nation of Israel sets the church and Christians on the wrong path today. I am talking about the path of evangelism, missiology, and ecclesiology. We could name them all, Josh. If you have a wrong view of the scriptures and what they are actually saying, you are going to be on the wrong path. Many people I know have written on this subject. Dr. Andy Woods has written a fantastic book on the coming kingdom and Kingdom Now theology, which is basically what we are talking about. The eschatology of replacement theology is in error.

That eschatology has been around for a long time. In a real quick historical overview, most scholars point to Justin Martyr and say Justin was the first one that clearly was teaching replacement theology. I agree with that. But I look back to Augustine in the late 300s and early 400s. Augustine is thought of as the theologian of the Roman Catholic Church. Augustine taught some horrible theology. Now, there are reformed theologians who revere Augustine as well, but I am not in that camp.

Augustine was amillennial, so that set the stage for no literal millennial reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. He also taught that the church had replaced Israel and he codified that in a systematic theology. That was then adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. We could go into some other areas like how Augustine was the father of what we call today Calvinism, having developed the whole TULIP acronym. Calvin picked that up from Augustine.

I am giving folks all of this detail to help them to understand that replacement theology has been around in the church for a very long time. Today it has exploded into the national consciousness. People everywhere are talking about what is going on here. We have got a lot of influencers today that are virulently anti-Semitic. They try to defend themselves, but you simply cannot through the lens of the scripture. In my view, they are guilty of anti-Semitism and we should not allow them to try and wiggle out of that.

Josh Davis: Absolutely. That is the reason why we wanted to have you on and feature this resource that you have put together, this wonderful book called *Replacement Theology*. Because there are so many influencers, it is flowing into our churches and many young people are getting swept up into these latest trends and catchphrases. We wanted people to understand where this all has come from, why it is misinterpreting scripture, and how we need to move forward. With all this in mind, let's turn to the scriptures. How does replacement theology handle scriptures about a future for Israel in God's redemptive and prophetic program?

Dr. Mike Spalding: It basically discards any future national restoration of the nation. Replacement theology adherents are typically amillennial or postmillennial in their eschatology. They do not see a place for Israel. In order to do that, they have to reject the Old Testament and especially the prophetic scriptures dealing with the nation of Israel. We can go all the way back to Deuteronomy in the Mosaic covenant. In Deuteronomy 17:15, Yahweh is telling his people that they must accept the king of his choosing. We know within that context that it was the Lord Jesus Christ.

That ties in then to Zechariah chapter 12 when it says that they will look on him whom they have pierced and they will mourn as a mother for a son. That is the recognition of world Jewry at that time trusting in Jesus as Messiah. The context of that in Zechariah 12 is the tribulation period. At the end of the tribulation period, when the Lord returns, the Jews will see his return and they will receive him as Messiah. That is the fulfillment of Romans chapter 11:26, where Paul says all Israel will be saved.

All of these scriptures come together. The reason why replacement theology ignores all of that is because they ignore the prophetic scriptures. Many of them subscribe to preterism, which says that the bulk of the prophetic scriptures have already been fulfilled. They say the Olivet Discourse was about 70 AD and it is not about any future tribulation period. They wiggle out of talking about Israel or seeing a future national restoration of Israel because they reject all of those scriptures that speak of such a thing. That is why it is important that we understand the entire Bible and all that it says in both covenants because they are valid even for us today.

Josh Davis: Amen. I agree with you 100% because that is one thing that we emphasize here at SWRC. Bible prophecy really does make a difference in our daily lives. We are seeing it fleshed out on the world stage. Every country in the world is saying something about Israel. No one is sitting on the fence. We just have a little bit of time left. Is there something else that you want to leave with our audience as we wrap up this session? Friends, I urge you to come back tomorrow because we are going to be continuing this discussion with Dr. Spalding even more.

Dr. Mike Spalding: Thank you, Josh. I just want to remind people that the debate is so heated. It has really become just a big argument. I want to encourage your viewers not to get caught up in that. There is no joy in that. In fact, it can have the opposite effect and rob you of your peace, your joy, and your rest. Always remember this: Jesus Christ is Lord and he is returning soon. In the meantime, he wants us to maintain his peace and to stay in his rest.

When we speak about this subject, we should do so calmly and with respect. We are informed to do that in 1 Peter 3:15. We should speak with people with respect and reverence. If it is not possible to have that conversation, then that is fine until another time. Maintain your peace and maintain your focus on the Lord Jesus Christ. Represent him well. That is what I want people to remember.

Josh Davis: Amen. Dr. Mike Spalding, thank you for joining us today. We are looking forward to tomorrow's conversation. Friends, do not forget you can pick up your copy of the book *Replacement Theology* by visiting our website swrc.com or giving us a call at 1-800-652-1144.

Southwest Radio Ministries: We will have much more on replacement theology from Dr. Mike Spalding on our next program. Today's featured resource is the book *Replacement Theology: Its Root, Fruit, and Consequences for Jewish People and the Nation of Israel* by today's guest, Dr. Mike Spalding. Order your copy of this compelling book today. Simply call 1-800-652-1144 or order online at swrc.com. Clear, direct, and firmly rooted in scripture, this resource equips believers to think critically, stand confidently on God's word, and better understand Israel's place in God's unfolding plan for the last days.

Greg Patton: Jesus was very familiar with it and so are we as we walk with him: trouble and in particular, suffering. It is a reality that is difficult to accept. Today I want to talk about how it is different for a child of God. Can there really be joy in suffering? Let's find out. I have had some powerful reminders as of late. My wife was so sick they were not sure she was going to come out of this one just last week. She was in the ER and then a week in intensive care.

One day last week, I had plans to go out and see my former pastor, Dr. Bachman. I have talked a lot about him. That very morning, his wife called and said they had to rush him to the ER. It turns out he has decided not to continue with any treatment for his cancer. He is in hospice, ready to go be with the Lord. Is this suffering? If so, how do I handle it? Whatever you are in today, the question should be, how can I best glorify God in this situation?

We all go through troubled times. I have discovered one of the hardest things for me to do as a Christian is to understand how I can find any joy in all of this suffering. Yet we know it has got to be done. It can be done because James tells us so. He says to consider it all joy when you encounter those trials in life. Peter says to the degree that you share the sufferings of Jesus Christ, keep on rejoicing. How in the world do you do that?

In Matthew 5:12, Jesus said to rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great. We have to ask how this is even possible. Paul offers a clue in Philippians where he talks about the fellowship of Jesus's suffering. The apostle's objective is to know Jesus Christ and to know him thoroughly. You get there in adversity. You get there when you are deep in trouble and do not know which way to turn. God is there for you and he is in your corner.

If the Lord is a man of sorrows and if he really is acquainted with grief, then we cannot truly know him while ignoring these attributes of his. When we view hardships as windows into the heart of our precious Savior Jesus Christ, then our perspective is going to change. Suffering begins to feel more like an opportunity rather than a problem. It is an opportunity for you and me to show the world Jesus Christ. It gives us access to intimate fellowship with Jesus that comes only through shared suffering.

I pray that God will give you the strength to endure so that you might discover more of who Jesus Christ really is. Where do you think the average church is in all of this? The more I am in the faith, over four decades now, I learn far more in the valleys than I ever have on the mountaintops. Maybe you are in the valley today. Make no mistake about it: God is still in control. He is still by your side and that problem is an opportunity. Ask yourself how you can best glorify God in this situation. It is a great way to live.

Southwest Radio Ministries: Today's featured resource is the book *Replacement Theology: Its Root, Fruit, and Consequences for Jewish People and the Nation of Israel* by today's guest, Dr. Mike Spalding. In this bold and thought-provoking work, readers are challenged to examine the theological foundations and real-world consequences of replacement theology. The book exposes how redefining or spiritualizing God's promises to Israel has led many to dismiss his covenant faithfulness and overlook Israel's continuing role in biblical prophecy.

It also confronts the sobering historical and moral implications of this doctrine, urging believers to consider its impact on Christian attitudes toward the Jewish people. Order your copy of this compelling book today. Call 1-800-652-1144 or simply order on swrc.com. Tomorrow Dr. Mike Spalding will reveal how replacement theology has opened the door for anti-Semitism in the church. Be sure to tune in. Watchman on the Wall is a production of Southwest Radio Ministries and is supported by faithful listeners like you. To learn more, visit swrc.com.